Get rid of the trashcan

[Dr rocker]

The trashcan seems to be used by mods to move something 'they dont like' rather than something 'the community does not like'. An example would be the thread 'Shut up Ryan'.

While the original post at first glance seems to be pretty pointless and no content, it is apparent on a second glance that it was used to generate discussion.

Is this site not about discussion? If the thread was so wrong, do the mods want the opposite of the post?

Do you really want thousands of one post threads that may seem like they have content and no discussion?

If a thread is really so shit, a mod should lock it and explain why it is being locked. Something I have mentioned several times and lip service has been to my remark, its very rare I see a trashcanned thread with an explanation of why it is in the trash.

As the trashcan is being abused, I think it should be locked so nothing can go there. The posts should not be deleted from it (unless they are restored to their original forum) but nothing new should be added.

As far as I see, if you are to act like a caretaker or a cleaner, you also have to be an educator as to why one mans thread is anothers rubbish.

[zombo.com]

not going to happen.

The alternative to the trashcan is that shitty no content posts get deleted.

Things can be recovered from the trashcan if needed.

[DaGuru]

Actually Zos, there are possibly DOZENS of alternatives....not the least of which perma-banning the problem posters that create the probelms in the first place, and then eventually you won't have a community made up of people who constantly end up being shit members.

But hey, you keep thinking inside that very tiny box you people call "managing Zoklet" and I'm SURE the same failed tactics that have been used the last 2 years to get this site to the site failed state it is will continue to "work" while trying to build this place into something bigger and better...won't it?

[zombo.com]

Originally Posted by DaGuru

Actually Zos, there are possibly DOZENS of alternatives....not the least of which perma-banning the problem posters that create the probelms in the first place, and then eventually you won't have a community made up of people who constantly end up being shit members.

But hey, you keep thinking inside that very tiny box you people call "managing Zoklet" and I'm SURE the same failed tactics that have been used the last 2 years to get this site to the site failed state it is will continue to "work" while trying to build this place into something bigger and better...won't it?

brother if perma banning the problems was an option you'd have been gone a year ago.

[DaGuru]

Originally Posted by Zos

brother if perma banning the problems was an option you'd have been gone a year ago.

Of course that being YOUR petty opinion, and as anyone can see by your opinions just in this section alone......you are pretty fuckin confused about what "works" for Zoklet or who is actually a "problem" around here.

But hey, you keep letting all of that butthurt dictate your sense of taste.....its only exposing your own blatant stupidity.

[zombo.com]

Originally Posted by DaGuru

Of course that being YOUR petty opinion, and as anyone can see by your opinions just in this section alone......you are pretty fuckin confused about what "works" for Zoklet or who is actually a "problem" around here.

But hey, you keep letting all of that butthurt dictate your sense of taste.....its only exposing your own blatant stupidity.

oh, so who's opinion should we use to decide who gets permabanned? Yours?
ell oh fucking ell.

[Yurpen]

It's either they delete the thread completely or keep it in a forum where you can still view. I choose the latter.

[Dr rocker]

Zos, you do a good job in CC, but you cannot be judge, jury and executoner all rolled into one in this forum. Not in your first post at least.

When one of the my guys at work comes to me and says '*name*, I have been thinking about how we do something now and maybe we could try XYZ' I do not shoot him down as soon as he opens his mouth.

I let him throw it out to his peers. They might agree, they might disagree, but they allways come up with ideas for moving forward around the point that was orriginally brought up.

If I laughed in their face and trampled all over the idea, would they come to me with ideas in the future? Think about how barrack room lawyers are created.

Getting the picture?

[-SpectraL]

Who the fuck is this zos anyways? As far as I know he's some nobody who joined Totse back in 2008 or something and jumped over here sucking on Zok's tit. Now he's running the entire community and deciding the fate of everybody's suggestions according to whatever's rolling around up there in his basically empty head? Man, we really have hit rock bottom.

[DECI4]

There are already forum specific trash cans so why not make those for all forums and get rid of the main trash can? Or alternativley we should get rid of forum specific trash cans and use only the main trash can.

Zos, you've already let everyone know you don't give a fuck so why are you even still a mod here? Why don't you do the right thing and step down so you can focus on something that does matter to you and someone else who gives two shit can take the reins here?

[DaGuru]

Zos is just one final "prank" that Zos/Wires/Fish is pulling on us.....until they finally do pull the plug for good. They wanted someone to be as ridiculously flippant they could find that would shoot the suggestions down as fast as possible, and Zos was only an all too eager soldier to have an open license to be as big a dick as possible to everyone else.

[-SpectraL]

Originally Posted by DaGuru

Zos is just one final "prank" that Zos/Wires/Fish is pulling on us.....until they finally do pull the plug for good. They wanted someone to be as ridiculously flippant they could find that would shoot the suggestions down as fast as possible, and Zos was only an all too eager soldier to have an open license to be as big a dick as possible to everyone else.

Jeezus. Have we walked onto the set of the Munsters or something?? What's next? Moses comes floating into the room on a cloud wearing an oversized diaper and playing a flute clarinet? If this isn't some kind of warped social experiment, then I'm a doctor's uncle. They're probably the real Totse police and the file's getting closed or something. I dunno.

[zombo.com]

ok, so convince us.
(although i'm pretty sure this has been shot down repeatedly before as well)

[zombo.com]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

Jeezus. Have we walked onto the set of the Munsters or something?? What's next? Moses comes floating into the room on a cloud wearing an oversized diaper and playing a flute clarinet? If this isn't some kind of warped social experiment, then I'm a doctor's uncle. They're probably the real Totse police and the file's getting closed or something. I dunno.

I admit, i do like to think someone else is getting the lulz out of pissing about with you two that i am.

You really take shit entirely too seriously brah, it's not good for an old man like you.

[Dr rocker]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

then I'm a doctor's uncle.

Not an uncle, but perhaps a half brother - If your mother was widowed at a young age and lived in a trailer (a nice one) and had a soldier living there some times, I know a man you owe a lot of fathers day cards to.

Originally Posted by Zos

ok, so convince us.
(although i'm pretty sure this has been shot down repeatedly before as well)

Moar like it. You should do magnanimous more often.

Originally Posted by Zos

I admit, i do like to think someone else is getting the lulz out of pissing about with you two that i am.

You really take shit entirely too seriously brah, it's not good for an old man like you.

We are all man enough to enjoy a bit of play, but it is give and take. I know deep down your a good guy, I think (or hope) you think the same of me.

Just look at most of the guys you think are herping the derp. While we all have a different agenda (and if people looked deep, they would see those that wanted change have massivly different agendas) we come together for a common purpose.

A quest for improvement is not a life long allegience. It is people working together to get shit done. Whether it is said or unsaid, I know myself, -Spec, DaGuru, TDR, shit even Poast and Luis want it to be better.

While we all have different versions of better - on a major scale sometimes - speaking for myself, some of my posts my be what TDR and DaGuru would consider 'puntable' - what you have in the group of people that you seem to consider 'puntable' have not even had converse over what we see as utopia - as we know it is unobtainable, we seem to have similar goals.

This is what has brought us together.

It is an 'espirit de corps' I think. We want different, sometimes similar things, but we know what is not working needs fixed before the place moves on. You can polish a turd, but it is still a turd.

Let me remind you of this:

Originally Posted by Dr rocker

Think about how barrack room lawyers are created.

Think about it... think about it some more... getting there?

Now, maybe the style of moderation has created this situation. Maybe it is trolling.

All I know, I never trolled the other place deeply (I might have pulled up some people on their own stupidity or made a joke, but not outright fucking with things). I did not troll here, rather make a joke here and there.

When things get full of bullshit, I like to pull the bullshit apart.

Appeal to the people that you think contribute nothing. It might even work.

Fuck it, approve the next IAF thread I submit - you might like it.

[Dr rocker]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

Too late. You've already spoiled the mood.

C'mon, it is never too late. A man may take all that you own, but when he realises he has done wrong and returns what is yours and accepts his methods were wrong, is it too late to accept it back?

Fuck apologies, we both know actions speak louder than words.

Look at it like sex with a bar slut. She might not want your babies, its not a slur on you, its just the fact that she does not want any babies.

[-SpectraL]

Originally Posted by Dr rocker

C'mon, it is never too late. A man may take all that you own, but when he realises he has done wrong and returns what is yours and accepts his methods were wrong, is it too late to accept it back? ...

I would certainly accept it back in a spirit of good faith and forthcoming, BUT there would have to be at least rental charges. I am not in the business, not the habit, of renting out goods stolen from me at absolutely no cost to the beneficiary. This is not how we build an empire.

[Dr rocker]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

This is not how we build an empire.

Empires are built using smoke, mirrors and subterfuge.

[-SpectraL]

But the point remains: the Trash Can is abused by many mods who apparently have extremely narrow views on various topics of discussion. Something should be done.

[TheDarkRodent]

Agreed 100% with OP

[Dr rocker]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

But the point remains: the Trash Can is abused by many mods who apparently have extremely narrow views on various topics of discussion. Something should be done.

Yes - this is why I made the thread. Zos might come across as a cunt to some - but he is not a total cunt - and this is why deep down I know he understands. All the mod derp about 'other mods run their forums how they want' - its a way of keeping the peace - a false peace - which he does not want as much as I do not want as much as you do not want.

He does not want a war either. As I do not, as you do not, as we all do not want.

He just wants to stay in position as long as possible. If he has that, he has a voice. It is just such a shame the admins use him as their mouthpiece as he is a good guy deep down.

Shit, if I was a mod here (not that I would be and I have told Wires on IRC that I would never do such shit) maybe my will would be bent.

Circumstances chance a man. Zos and I share a lot of views on a lot of things and if we smoked together, maybe a lot of things we do not share views on can be fixed.

But, as long as people treat internet opinions as second class, where do we go?

[zombo.com]

rocker, are you really gearing up for war because i told you that how many STICKIES a mod has isn't a site administration issue?

wow dude. have fun with that.

of all the battleflags to raise that one's actually pretty funny in the grand scheme of "things no one should give a shit about"

[Trix Are For Kids]

Get rid of it, and delete shit posts. Sounds good to me. But only if shit posts get deleted.

[zombo.com]

Originally Posted by Trix Are For Kids

Get rid of it, and delete shit posts. Sounds good to me. But only if shit posts get deleted.

one man's shit is another womans sundae.

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by Trix Are For Kids

Get rid of it, and delete shit posts. Sounds good to me. But only if shit posts get deleted.

We don't believe in deleting content. It's not right for a mod to delete a post or thread b/c they consider it to be shitty. The trashcan is an appropriate place for so called shitty posts/threads to go so the content isn't deleted.

[birdy]

No, please don't delete the trashcan. Beloved trash can. Personally I don't believe in trash threads in the forums, so I really do appreciate the trashcan forum being there. I'd just like to be able to use my mod powers down there as well to try and make the place a bit more.... managed.

Ugh trash threads look bloody awful, sitting there at the top of the forum because they've been stickied. I hate them, they look tacky as all hell. That's why N&N doesn't have one, and probably never will.

I think I could go on for ages about why I despise trash can threads.... but a lot of the other mods like them and have implemented them into their forums, so I guess that's that.

[DaGuru]

Originally Posted by ShadyLady

We don't believe in deleting content. It's not right for a mod to delete a post or thread b/c they consider it to be shitty.

Where have you been the last 3 or 4 months? You hit your head and wake up thinking you were in the Totse 01' years or something?

[DaGuru]

Originally Posted by ToxicInjection

I think I could go on for ages about why I despise trash can threads.... but a lot of the other mods like them and have implemented them into their forums, so I guess that's that.

I'd be willing to bet if we examined just which mods really like them.....we'd find most of those mods to be the laziest mods mostly out for their own selfish agendas any how.

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by DaGuru

Where have you been the last 3 or 4 months? You hit your head and wake up thinking you were in the Totse 01' years or something?

I, personally won't delete content. The only time I will delete a post is if the member asked me to delete it or if it was a double post. I believe deleting posts is an abuse of a mod's powers & should not be done.

[birdy]

Originally Posted by DaGuru

I'd be willing to bet if we examined just which mods really like them.....we'd find most of those mods to be the laziest mods mostly out for their own selfish agendas any how.

It doesn't really matter to me which mods like the feature of the trashcan thread, or which mods implement it in their forums. I just find the whole concept stupid. I cannot fathom why ANY forum would need this thread, when there's a perfectly good trashcan forum available to use. If mods were granted some extra janitorial powers down in trashcan forum, we could tidy up and merge posts that have both come from the same thread or something similar.

I just think having the trash thread there gives off an impression of inconsistency. Having a trash can thread defeats the purpose of having forum rules threads, and all those other lovely things some person took time out of their day to write. Saying to a user that a certain post doesn't belong IN THAT FORUM, then just simply moving it to the trash thread (which resides in THE SAME FORUM) seems a little confusing. If a post isn't tolerated or doesn't belong in that forum, why should it get to stay?

[DaGuru]

Originally Posted by ShadyLady

I, personally won't delete content. The only time I will delete a post is if the member asked me to delete it or if it was a double post. I believe deleting posts is an abuse of a mod's powers & should not be done.

Completely agree....but several mods are doing it now more than ever. And the admins ain't doing shit about it except the usual lip service and discussion about limiting name changes.

Originally Posted by ToxicInjection

It doesn't really matter to me which mods like the feature of the trashcan thread, or which mods implement it in their forums. I just find the whole concept stupid. I cannot fathom why ANY forum would need this thread, when there's a perfectly good trashcan forum available to use. If mods were granted some extra janitorial powers down in trashcan forum, we could tidy up and merge posts that have both come from the same thread or something similar.

I just think having the trash thread there gives off an impression of inconsistency. Having a trash can thread defeats the purpose of having forum rules threads, and all those other lovely things some person took time out of their day to write. Saying to a user that a certain post doesn't belong IN THAT FORUM, then just simply moving it to the trash thread (which resides in THE SAME FORUM) seems a little confusing. If a post isn't tolerated or doesn't belong in that forum, why should it get to stay?

Completely agree as well. The concept IS stupid, and as I said earlier its just lazy man's modding at its finest. Just an excuse for people in power to play passive little games, rather than make the harder calls.

Nobody said it was going to be easy, why are the rules created to make the mods jobs easier....when instead the rules should be in place to make a better community?


Obviously not asking either of you ladies that question......just muttering questions to myself what should be common sense, yet the supposed leaders(?) around here couldn't understand that concept in a million years.

[-SpectraL]

Originally Posted by DaGuru

...Nobody said it was going to be easy, why are the rules created to make the mods jobs easier....when instead the rules should be in place to make a better community?...

Wow. You hit the nail right on the head with that comment, Daguru. Designing the rules to make the mods' jobs easier has got to be the greatest mistake this administration has made, and they're still doing it.

[Twin Gats]

Lol zos got pwned by daguru and spectral

[-SpectraL]

Well, one thing is that the seeding of many, many trashcan threads all over the place makes it much more... errrr... convenient for illegitimate mods to stifle valid and interesting conversation. With just the Trash Can forum itself it's pretty easy to see what is going in there and who is sending it there, whereas with 10 trash can threads it's a lot harder to tell who is abusing the ability to trash content.

[TheDarkRodent]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

Well, one thing is that the seeding of many, many trashcan threads all over the place makes it much more... errrr... convenient for illegitimate mods to stifle valid and interesting conversation. With just the Trash Can forum itself it's pretty easy to see what is going in there and who is sending it there, whereas with 10 trash can threads it's a lot harder to tell who is abusing the ability to trash content.

This makes so much sense we can comfortably lay 9 to 2 that it will never happen.

[-SpectraL]

[quote=TheDarkRodent;2324867]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

Well, one thing is that the seeding of many, many trashcan threads all over the place makes it much more... errrr... convenient for illegitimate mods to stifle valid and interesting conversation. With just the Trash Can forum itself it's pretty easy to see what is going in there and who is sending it there, whereas with 10 trash can threads it's a lot harder to tell who is abusing the ability to trash content.[/QUOTE]


This makes so much sense we can comfortably lay 9 to 2 that it will never happen.

Well, one big fuckup there is that mods don't have the group permissions to be able to merge just individual posts into threads already in the Trash Can. A mod would have to have permissions in both the Trash Can and the forum the post is coming from in order to do any merging, and only the mod of the Trash Can has that capability (O_RLY). Some would argue as well that if the content is headed for the Trash Can then it wouldn't be worth it to merge trash into trash anyways. And that's why it's important to remember that the Trash can is ONLY for trash, not for valid content.

[takedrugs_killpeople]

no thread should ever be locked or moved to the trashcan or removed.


FUCK DA MODS

[-SpectraL]

Take your left-wing extremist blather to pokemon.com.

[elf omg]

i'm with op, mods mod too much. i mean i know y'all like to feel helpful, or busy, but i don't think reading through everything and picking and choosing which posts you like is good for anyone

[Dr rocker]

Originally Posted by Princess 'Zek

i'm with op, mods mod too much. i mean i know y'all like to feel helpful, or busy, but i don't think reading through everything and picking and choosing which posts you like is good for anyone

Exactly. If people did not abuse thanks - as has happened in the past, then the users could see for themselves what is shit and what is not.

As it stands, its pretty worthless.

I give thanks rarely - only when I see things that I deem worthy of it - IE decent posts I happen to see. I dont read every post on the boards, infact, only a small percentage - those posts I read are ones I want to know something about, or have an interest in.

Likewise, I review things when I have new thanks. If some one has thanked me for something I think is completly unthankworthy, it raises questions in my mind.

Thankfully, this does not happen a lot.