Capitalism a modern day slavery.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

YOUTUBE VIDEO COUNTER ATTACK

[YOUTUBE]CGKM63ekxno[/YOUTUBE]

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Neuron

The idea that capitalism is a form of slavery is laughable. Slavery is the state of being under the control of another person. Work is done voluntarily in capitalism.

When you clock into your job, who is under control? Your boss is. He tells you what to do, and if you don't comply, he can get rid of you permanently (not kill you lol)

If work was truly voluntary, then we wouldn't have to do it, right? But it seems it's the only way to get food/stay alive, unless you steal.

It's not like when you get a job you can just be like "meh, I'm not gonna volunteer to come into work today. My freewill allows me to maintain my job and come in when I please"

[DirtySanchez]

Originally Posted by Neuron

The idea that capitalism is a form of slavery is laughable. Slavery is the state of being under the control of another person. Work is done voluntarily in capitalism.

See what you fail to realize is that capitalism is slavery but it's just a disguised slavery. When the slaves worked they were provided food shelter and other essentials. With the way minimum wage is often times thats all you can afford with a job today. Still slavery but with the illusion of freedom.

[Alejandro Calvert Gálvez]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

When you clock into your job, who is under control? Your boss is. He tells you what to do, and if you don't comply, he can get rid of you permanently (not kill you lol)

Influence is a more accurate word than control, in this case. That is because the "control" that bosses exercise over employees is temporal and weak.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

If work was truly voluntary, then we wouldn't have to do it, right? But it seems it's the only way to get food/stay alive, unless you steal.

It's not like when you get a job you can just be like "meh, I'm not gonna volunteer to come into work today. My freewill allows me to maintain my job and come in when I please"

In a capitalist society stealing and death are options. So therefore choice exists and work is voluntary.

People can't attend and leave their job so fluidly but they can choose their schedules. WTF, are you trolling?

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Neuron

Influence is a more accurate word than control, in this case. That is because the "control" that bosses exercise over employees is temporal and weak.

Come work at my job. You'll love it. Everyone has a radio on them at all times. My fatass of a boss sits at the front of the store in front of a computer with a monitor that is divided into 4 screens. Each contains a live video feed from cameras that are set up around the work environment so that he can constantly monitor his employees. Yeah, some pretty weak influence he has over us.

In a capitalist society stealing and death are options. So therefore choice exists and work is voluntary.

People can't attend and leave their job so fluidly but they can choose their schedules. WTF, are you trolling?

I was not able to choose my schedule when I started working at the job that I work at now. I was given hours from 12-8pm and there is no way I can change that, because all of the other shifts are already covered. If I wanted to change my hours, I'd have to quit and find a new job.

So fuck off >: (

[Ebola]

Originally Posted by Neuron

In a capitalist society stealing and death are options. So therefore choice exists and work is voluntary.

Thats a really stupid thing to say... Slaves can also kill themselves. And you consider stealing/being a criminal as accepted options in our society? Well, if it actually was like that it would be bloody anarchy! We punish thieves and murders. It is NOT accepted. We DON`T have a choice. Work or die!!

[Alejandro Calvert Gálvez]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Come work at my job. You'll love it. Everyone has a radio on them at all times. My fatass of a boss sits at the front of the store in front of a computer with a monitor that is divided into 4 screens. Each contains a live video feed from cameras that are set up around the work environment so that he can constantly monitor his employees. Yeah, some pretty weak influence he has over us.

Your anecdotal "evidence" is not necessarily representative of everyone's case. The amount of management workers receive varies among different jobs. In addition, you could be making this up, for all I know.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

I was not able to choose my schedule when I started working at the job that I work at now. I was given hours from 12-8pm and there is no way I can change that, because all of the other shifts are already covered. If I wanted to change my hours, I'd have to quit and find a new job.

So fuck off >: (

You have the option of finding a new job that offers a different schedule.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

So fuck off >: (

I am just arguing for entertainment.

Originally Posted by Ebola

Thats a really stupid thing to say... Slaves can also kill themselves. And you consider stealing/being a criminal as accepted options in our society? Well, if it actually was like that it would be bloody anarchy! We punish thieves and murders. It is NOT accepted. We DON`T have a choice. Work or die!!

The argument "work or die" is absurd and therefore invalid. In nature, you die if you don't work. Growing the crops is work. Even gathering is work.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Neuron

Your anecdotal "evidence" is not necessarily representative of everyone's case. The amount of management workers receive varies among different jobs. In addition, you could be making this up, for all I know.

Why would I make this up? If you really have to say "oh I bet you're making that up" without any proof in an argument, then you've lost. I have no way of proving that what I said is true, you'll just have to take my word for it. I've been working there for over a month now, that should be enough credibility?

You have the option of finding a new job that offers a different schedule.

How the FUCK does that change my schedule at my current job?

I am just arguing for entertainment.

Then you really have no idea what you are talking about and have nothing important to say.

The argument "work or die" is absurd and therefore invalid. In nature, you die if you don't work. Growing the crops is work. Even gathering is work.

Hypocrisy much?

[Former_Member]

Your debating the extent of unfair influence, that's irrelevant. In debating it, you've accepted influence exists.

In the capitalist system, a very small range of choice does exist. You can choose to play along with rules set up by the small minority of powerful and well-off individuals, or you can detach from the system- and suffer and die. In many cases, it's not even legal to detach from the system.

Capitalism doesn't perfectly equate with slavery, but it's the equivalent of it in every way. It's slavery for a modern, consumerist world- the lifestyle for most is indeed far superior to that of a traditional slave because of the intervention of government and the need to appease mass power. So, even though we have SOMETHING; we're still slaves in all but the most formal sense.

Now, you might think that's just the status quo- "you don't work, you die", and it is therefore acceptable for that to be true. It is not though. The reason capitalism is an illegitimate slavery, is because it is based upon the theft of the world (owned by all) into the hands of a few. In my mind, taking stewardship of the world provided all are provided for is acceptable- but attempting to assert ownership, and forcing others to play by your rules or face suffering and death is not morally acceptable. Capitalism is theft, and it causes suffering and regression for many; purely so the elite can acquire more wealth and power for themselves.

The real kicker is, it doesn't even need to be like that. It's not even a choice between capitalism or anarchism/communism. You can take all the benefits of the current system (though admittedly, this retains its fundamental illegitimacy of being based on theft), yet remove the unjust oppression by inserting popular control and state regulation into the economic sphere. We can maintain and expand a broad array of civil and individual rights, which would in fact be strengthened by economic democracy rather than weakened- as many deluded rightists inevitably start screaming about when you start putting democratic constraints on the harmful activities of individuals.

[GreatestGatsby4]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Where did the fertilizers to grow the food come from?

The tools to drill the well?

etc.

Once again, yours and almost everyone else's short sightedness is showing.

well, i was planning on using FUCKING DIRT, as the fertilizer\growing medium.
and we have enough tools for everyone to drill a well, theyre just piled up in stockrooms waiting for people to buy them.

Originally Posted by Neuron

The idea that capitalism is a form of slavery is laughable. Slavery is the state of being under the control of another person. Work is done voluntarily in capitalism.

Originally Posted by DirtySanchez

See what you fail to realize is that capitalism is slavery but it's just a disguised slavery. When the slaves worked they were provided food shelter and other essentials. With the way minimum wage is often times thats all you can afford with a job today. Still slavery but with the illusion of freedom.

Originally Posted by Neuron

Influence is a more accurate word than control, in this case. That is because the "control" that bosses exercise over employees is temporal and weak.



In a capitalist society stealing and death are options. So therefore choice exists and work is voluntary.

People can't attend and leave their job so fluidly but they can choose their schedules. WTF, are you trolling?

So, you have the choice to abide by societies rules and be a slave to thier system or you can live free and get arrested and put in jail. yeah your making sooo much sense right now.

Originally Posted by Ebola

Thats a really stupid thing to say... Slaves can also kill themselves. And you consider stealing/being a criminal as accepted options in our society? Well, if it actually was like that it would be bloody anarchy! We punish thieves and murders. It is NOT accepted. We DON`T have a choice. Work or die!!

this^

[Alejandro Calvert Gálvez]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Why would I make this up? If you really have to say "oh I bet you're making that up" without any proof in an argument, then you've lost. I have no way of proving that what I said is true, you'll just have to take my word for it. I've been working there for over a month now, that should be enough credibility?

Slavery is being under total control. In your job, you are only controlled to perform the work you agreed to do. That is partial control. Hence capitalism is not slavery.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

How the FUCK does that change my schedule at my current job?

What matters is that you have some influence over the hours you work, in slavery you do not. Therefore, capitalism is not slavery.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Then you really have no idea what you are talking about and have nothing important to say.

People can argue for entertainment and know what they're talking about at the same time.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

Hypocrisy much?

You do not even understand the argument. User Ebola was arguing that a lack of work will result in death and that therefore capitalism is slavery. I was simply illustrating the absurdity of that argument. The argument is absurd because a refusal to work would always result in death, regardless of what economic system is in place.

Megalodon, you keep asking questions - that is not arguing. They are not even rhetorical questions.

[GreatestGatsby4]

the capitalist illusion is working quite well on this one^

so, if your 90% under control and slavery is 100% under control (which its not, you can kill yourself or run away hur durr ), then your not a slave cause you still have that AWESOME 10 PERCENT! ? really take a step back and look at this realistically. People arent meant to live like this, doing shit jobs for no money while the rich niggaz up top have more money than they could ever spend.

[ilovechronic]

Originally Posted by Neuron

Slavery is being under total control. In your job, you are only controlled to perform the work you agreed to do. That is partial control. Hence capitalism is not slavery.



What matters is that you have some influence over the hours you work, in slavery you do not. Therefore, capitalism is not slavery.



People can argue for entertainment and know what they're talking about at the same time.



You do not even understand the argument. User Ebola was arguing that a lack of work will result in death and that therefore capitalism is slavery. I was simply illustrating the absurdity of that argument. The argument is absurd because a refusal to work would always result in death, regardless of what economic system is in place.

Megalodon, you keep asking questions - that is not arguing. They are not even rhetorical questions.

But paying 1/3 of your wages to the federal government is. But you can control that to, by not trying to rise above your class and even going lower than your class and making less than is required to make taxes.

Look up ponzi scheme.

minor details like choosing when you work are exactly the type of shit they want you the sheeple hung up on. Ever heard of guns god and gays, the 3 gs, well alot of people vote based off of those 3 things and results in everyone voting for the 2 party system.

Originally Posted by Megalodon

When you clock into your job, who is under control? Your boss is. He tells you what to do, and if you don't comply, he can get rid of you permanently (not kill you lol)

If work was truly voluntary, then we wouldn't have to do it, right? But it seems it's the only way to get food/stay alive, unless you steal.

It's not like when you get a job you can just be like "meh, I'm not gonna volunteer to come into work today. My freewill allows me to maintain my job and come in when I please"

Welcome to the money matrix, if you do not participate and get a job you are cast down into the bowels of society into poverty. Good ol hardwork and as a direct result you make your own food is a thing of the past. Now your food travels atleast 1000miles to get to your mouth.You spend your whole life wondering if this is a big slavery scam but you still conform and participate with this "society" and then you die, and thats exactly what they want.

"They have money to fight wars but cannot feed the poor"
"I was given this world I didn't make it" two quotes by tupac.

[Ebola]

Unrestricted I would be able to build a house and live there without paying rent or taxes to anyone. I would take care of it and maintain it while growing some crops or hunting and gathering to keep myself fed.

Now I work 8 hours a day, paying 45% income tax and aditional 25% VAT on everything plus additional "luxory taxes" on alchohol, sugar and alot of other stuff. I make a living but I´m in no way "rich". Still I wouldn´t want more pay; I would rather have more time to do what I want. The company I work for is making a lot of money on my work - That´s where it becomes unfair and I get taken advantage of according to Marx. My work is worth much more than I get paid. If I was working my farm or gathering I get paid full value for my work.

In the current system there is no way for me to live my way besides earning a lot of money any buying my "freedom" from the system, much like Roman slaves could do 2000 years ago.

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by Ebola

Unrestricted I would be able to build a house and live there without paying rent or taxes to anyone. I would take care of it and maintain it while growing some crops or hunting and gathering to keep myself fed.

Unrestricted, I'd kill you and take your house.



Neuron, don't try even reasoning with these neanderthals.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Neuron

Slavery is being under total control. In your job, you are only controlled to perform the work you agreed to do. That is partial control. Hence capitalism is not slavery.

Welcome to modernization, my boy. As the people get smarter, so must the slave masters.


Also no, slavery is never being under total control. Man is not controlled so easily. Even back in the day, slaves revolted against their masters. Gigantic slave revolts even. Shit, ever seen riots? Modern day slave revolts, SON.

Modernization has cleverly increased the illusion that we are free by using non lethal force to dispatch of undesirable slaves. (don't worry, they have figured out ways to lethally dispatch us too, google "fluoride in tap water" and "aspartame in sweetener" and "aluminum in deodorant" and um, hey! while your at it youtube "reptilian body snatchas masta buildas")

You might learn a thing or a billion.

What matters is that you have some influence over the hours you work, in slavery you do not. Therefore, capitalism is not slavery.

In slavery(way back in the day shit) you have influence over the hours you work too! It's just in a different way. Your body will tell you when you cannot work anymore. And then you get sick and die.

People can argue for entertainment and know what they're talking about at the same time.

What makes you think I'm not entertained when I post here?

=)

You do not even understand the argument. User Ebola was arguing that a lack of work will result in death and that therefore capitalism is slavery. I was simply illustrating the absurdity of that argument. The argument is absurd because a refusal to work would always result in death, regardless of what economic system is in place.

Ok, you have a point that if your body stops working you will die.

We're still slaves because we work to stay alive, and the only party who actually profits is the employer. Employees are slaves, employers are slightly better than slaves. Rothschilds, Warburgs, Bilderburgs (bankers) are the true slave masters. Of course they are still slaves too, even lower slaves than us because they are aware that what they are doing is wrong lol or maybe they don't, which would probably be even worse xD

Megalodon, you keep asking questions - that is not arguing. They are not even rhetorical questions.

Asking questions is perfectly valid material for a discussion board, you ass hat.

How's that for arguing? (a rhetorical question if you are too dumb to know your own vocabulary)

Also, just for kicks, let me repost the other rhetorical questions in my previous post that you apparently overlooked, or perhaps you really do have no idea what a rhetorical question is?

How the FUCK does that change my schedule at my current job?

Hypocrisy much?

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Unrestricted, I'd kill you and take your house.



Neuron, don't try even reasoning with these neanderthals.

Yeah because without a monetary system, people will suddenly be like "OK, GTA(grand theft auto) RULES NIGGAS"

actually it will be the opposite, instead of society collapsing into anarchy, our society will finally blossom into what god(energy) intended it to look like, much like a flower =)



Seriously, what makes you think YOU would be the guy that's taking everyones houses if everyone has the same idea as you? Forreal, don't flatter yourself. You'd be one of the first niggas that got shot in the head and wallet stolen(OH WAIT, MONEY IS USELESS, THEY'D STEAL ALL OF YOUR POWERTOOLS AND BATTERIES) if it were to really go down like that.

[GreatestGatsby4]

if we didnt have police to rely on to take care of criminals for us(which they rarely do), then it would be the responsibility of the entire community to eleminate the undesirables. that would mean way less criminals because of the fear of being removed, and the efficiency of the system.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by GratefulGarcia4

if we didnt have police to rely on to take care of criminals for us(which they rarely do), then it would be the responsibility of the entire community to eleminate the undesirables. that would mean way less criminals because of the fear of being removed, and the efficiency of the system.

Hopefully we change our view on who the criminals are.

I wouldn't want my whole neighborhood looking out for people smoking a bong and raiding their home, naw meen?

[GreatestGatsby4]

yea im talking about if someone was going around killing/stealing/raping, then the whole community would as a whole agree that they needed to remove him and then as a whole go kill his ass. it would be much harder to get the community to agree to going after weed smokers and other frivolous "crimes".

[Om Namah Shivaya]

true

[DirtySanchez]

A strong government will always be necessary. This is why I prefer Socialism to pure communism. Sure the public could take care of the criminals but this would often cause the wrong man to be punished for a crime he didnt commit.

[GreatestGatsby4]

maybe sometimes, but i have confidence that the community would make pretty damn sure who did what before going through with it. and they would also give warnings or whatever depending on thier individual communities rules

[tim]

Capitalism's ways of production and distribution are reliant on consumerism and private industry. Private industries are willing to change their strategies however they can, as quickly as they can to ensure the greatest profit possible in the shortest amount of time. EDIT: Resulting in faster shipment of goods and a better model of supply and demand. Corporations adapt to demand, as they would like to profit as much as possible, however they also prefer not to spend money that didn't need to be spent - which would reduce profit.

Communism's ways of production and distribution are reliant on government bureaucracy. The government creates a set of rules and a budget on where, how, and when things are going to be done, and it takes a larger amount of effort and cooperation to get any of these guidelines for actions/spending changed. EDIT: Resulting in time-laborious government meetings to determine something as trivial as how many articles of clothing should be shipped to a particular community. This would constantly need to be changed and a large communist government such as the former USSR would have trouble keeping up with demand, often sending far too much or perhaps not enough.

Originally Posted by DirtySanchez

A strong government will always be necessary. This is why I prefer Socialism to pure communism. Sure the public could take care of the criminals but this would often cause the wrong man to be punished for a crime he didnt commit.

I respectfully disagree. Every "strong" government fails somehow, somewhere along the line. You might be able to say "hey, well the UK and the USA are doing pretty well eh?" - no, they're not. Well, maybe the UK hasn't really changed but the USA really has lost sight of it's foundations.

I believe the only type of government that will be successful in the future will be similar to the one we have now, a democratic republic, however with less centralization and with more control given over to local areas. Some kind of central government will be needed, but definitely not ones as strong as the Chinese have created or the USSR attempted to. The thing is, people that live near each other have better ideas of what each other want and can adjust their policies accordingly so, while if you have one group that tries to do please everyone at once, they typically do the opposite.

[Ebola]

Originally Posted by Optionryder420

Unrestricted, I'd kill you and take your house.

or be shot dead in your tracks while approaching... Your argument works both ways. You might be the one looted and killed. Besides this being irrelevant to the Capitalism/Slavery discussion, I have no problems with Might being Right.

[GreatestGatsby4]

^this
with the removal of societies systems keeping alive the weak and drains on society, only the strongest will survive, like its supposed to be, and humans will begin evolving much more rapidly

[poast-bortem!]

Originally Posted by Morb

...capitalsim is the best economic system...

[Obbe]

This is the story of your enslavement:

[youtube]Xbp6umQT58A[/youtube]

[poast-bortem!]

Originally Posted by Obbe

This is the story of your enslavement:

[youtube]Xbp6umQT58A[/youtube]

This is the story of how you're a blithering faggot with no ground to stand on...

...

[ilovechronic]

Originally Posted by poast-bortem!

This is the story of how you're a blithering faggot with no ground to stand on...

...

Apathy and cognitive dissonance is the biggest thing that has got us where we are today that vid makes many good points.
"wake up, to see the farm, is to leave it" good quote.

[Duelist]

this is a story all about how my life got turned flipped upside down

[Optionryder420]

Originally Posted by Ebola

or be shot dead in your tracks while approaching... Your argument works both ways. You might be the one looted and killed. Besides this being irrelevant to the Capitalism/Slavery discussion, I have no problems with Might being Right.

You don't think this is already the case?

[Soupa]

you get what you deserve in a capitalist world. its all on you, not your government.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Soupa

you get what you deserve in a capitalist world. its all on you, not your government.

That's not true. Capitalism is typified by the state giving assent (and consequently providing force to enforce) to the claims of individuals over mass wealth.

If your argument was true, I'd merely murder an oil tycoon and move into his house; and nobody would bat an eye. Capitalism makes the (invalid anyway, appeal to nature fallacy) argument that it merely distributes things along the lines they naturally would be; but as the example demonstrates, states supporting capitalism are enabling the un-natural accumulation of the worlds resources into the hands of a few.

[Alejandro Calvert Gálvez]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

That's not true. Capitalism is typified by the state giving assent (and consequently providing force to enforce) to the claims of individuals over mass wealth.

This seems like a problem with the practice rather than the idea of a capitalist world. Capitalism and the modern state have existed for a comparatively small amount of time so that their implementation may still be imperfect. As time goes by, we have seen that things get more fair.

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

If your argument was true, I'd merely murder an oil tycoon and move into his house; and nobody would bat an eye. Capitalism makes the (invalid anyway, appeal to nature fallacy) argument that it merely distributes things along the lines they naturally would be; but as the example demonstrates, states supporting capitalism are enabling the un-natural accumulation of the worlds resources into the hands of a few.

Capitalism does accord wealth to those that deserve it - those that work for it in the lawful realm.

Enable accumulation of resources into the hands of the few? You are forgetting public education, provided by the modern state, which promotes a more egalitarian accumulation of wealth.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Neuron

Capitalism does accord wealth to those that deserve it - those that work for it in the lawful realm.

That's absolutely not what capitalism.

Capitalism is a system in which wealth goes to those who own the means of production. Wealth does not go to the workers, they receive only a portion of what they produce in a wage. I can sit on my arse my entire life in capitalism, provided I own the factory; and I will be many times more wealthy than the actual workers.

[Soupa]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

That's absolutely not what capitalism.

Capitalism is a system in which wealth goes to those who own the means of production. Wealth does not go to the workers, they receive only a portion of what they produce in a wage. I can sit on my arse my entire life in capitalism, provided I own the factory; and I will be many times more wealthy than the actual workers.

You gotta play the game of life. Someone who bottles coke shouldn't get paid as much as the CEO who runs Coke inc. The CEO played the game and worked up the ladder, worked hard, maybe went to college to study business, etc, and his work paid off. Some deadbeat shouldn't be rewarded for being a factory worker. BUT if the said deadbeat went to college, applied for leadership positions, etc we would see a change in story, wouldn't we?

You are free to be the cattle, or you can be the farmer. YOU have the choice.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Soupa

You gotta play the game of life. Someone who bottles coke shouldn't get paid as much as the CEO who runs Coke inc. The CEO played the game and worked up the ladder, worked hard, maybe went to college to study business, etc, and his work paid off. Some deadbeat shouldn't be rewarded for being a factory worker. BUT if the said deadbeat went to college, applied for leadership positions, etc we would see a change in story, wouldn't we?

You are free to be the cattle, or you can be the farmer. YOU have the choice.

You're problem is that you view people that you've never met/do not know as deadbeats/cattle.

Also, nice analogy. Coke inc. As if anyone associated with that unhealthy toxin deserves to be rewarded with anything.

[ilovechronic]

Originally Posted by Soupa

You gotta play the game of life. Someone who bottles coke shouldn't get paid as much as the CEO who runs Coke inc. The CEO played the game and worked up the ladder, worked hard, maybe went to college to study business, etc, and his work paid off. Some deadbeat shouldn't be rewarded for being a factory worker. BUT if the said deadbeat went to college, applied for leadership positions, etc we would see a change in story, wouldn't we?

You are free to be the cattle, or you can be the farmer. YOU have the choice.

Oh but he should, because with out that factory worker that has many fellow factory workers who will agree they are vitalto the factory so the factory can't function.
So in capitalism they say fuck you the factory can and function because they can shop around and outsource their labor.
Make the most money possible with the cheapest methods possible which results in maximum profits.

[Soupa]

Originally Posted by Megalodon

You're problem is that you view people that you've never met/do not know as deadbeats/cattle.

Also, nice analogy. Coke inc. As if anyone associated with that unhealthy toxin deserves to be rewarded with anything.

Yeah I don't know any factory workers or ceos.
Another good analogy is that in the Gulags, the workers would finish their sentence, and later become wardens, because no one wanted to be a warden. Then they actually became the operator of the Gulag and made a ton of money and had barrels of caviar and stuff imported there.
& I said the Coke Inc part, because Coke is based in my hometown, just the 1st thing that came to mind.