(I am a)TOOL(You are a)

[Mashleshmash]

To me, it seems that it comes down to the fight or flight response that we have all naturally been born with. I use the term 'fight or flight' loosely in the sense that is it easier to just...go with the flow so to speak? Keep your head down and deal with it because as we have all come to know, the world is cruel and it does no good bitching about it.

There is, however, the other side of the coin.

Would it actually be feasible or profitable to your personal wellbeing (in terms of pursuit of happiness) to shun society and say, live in the mountains? I could name off a million things that is wrong with society that would support my reasoning for not wanting to be apart of it.

This is a question I have long tried to tackle and I've a feeling that many people on zoklet have also had this question pop up once or twice.

Today, we debate.

[AoxomoxoA]

There are many obvious and logical reasons why I wouldn't want to isolate myself from society, but I won't discuss them. Rather, I'd discuss a few less serious problems. First of all, psychological it is neccesary for a human to feel a part of something otherwise they would go insane. That's a fact. Secondly, it'd get boring as hell. Human beings have the habit of always wanting the opposite after a while of having anything. And lastly, fucking sex and drugs man. You won't be able to live off pot and porn forever.

[Mashleshmash]

I feel that humans have created this big cloud of bullshit that made them feel more special than other species. Have you ever thought that maybe humans are uhm...out of place so to speak? The general goal I've known my whole life is to get money, money, money but maybe it's not so simple? OR maybe it's too simple? We make things more complicated than it has to be. For some reason, and I'm not sure why, humans have always felt the need for longevity and the feeling of importance but I think we forget that really, we're just a bunch of dumb nigger beasts trying to get by.

And to touch down on the topic of being psychologically dependent on a function of sorts, well maybe that is true but like I mentioned perhaps we are out of place? We are no different than any other species and maybe deep down, we all know that this is not natural.

I hope that didn't come out as jumbled up as it seems.

[Hydroponichronic]

Originally Posted by Slag

First of all, psychological it is neccesary for a human to feel a part of something otherwise they would go insane. That's a fact.

No, it's commonly accepted propaganda. It is readily possible to adapt your psyche to not need any of that crap, and that's personal experience.

Originally Posted by Slag

Secondly, it'd get boring as hell.

In all likelyhood, true, but not necessarily. Through history you here about people going off into the mountains to learn about themselves. If the time was spent focused on self-discovery, it might not get overwhelmingly boring.

Originally Posted by Slag

And lastly, fucking sex and drugs man. You won't be able to live off pot and porn forever.

And this just straightup wrong. Millions of people do this now with no problems.

[AoxomoxoA]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

I feel that humans have created this big cloud of bullshit that made them feel more special than other species. Have you ever thought that maybe humans are uhm...out of place so to speak? The general goal I've known my whole life is to get money, money, money but maybe it's not so simple? OR maybe it's too simple? We make things more complicated than it has to be. For some reason, and I'm not sure why, humans have always felt the need for longevity and the feeling of importance but I think we forget that really, we're just a bunch of dumb nigger beasts trying to get by.

And to touch down on the topic of being psychologically dependent on a function of sorts, well maybe that is true but like I mentioned perhaps we are out of place? We are no different than any other species and maybe deep down, we all know that this is not natural.

I hope that didn't come out as jumbled up as it seems.

Hahaha, it's funny cause I've seen just the opposite. People TRY to emluate animals and nature thinking it's the "natural" thing to do without realizing you can break free from the structure and free yourself from the "system" whether mechanical or otherwise. I'm under the believe structures tie you down and don't allow you to be "really" free. Does this make sense to you guys?

[Mashleshmash]

How can you break free from a system you are born into? You're told from day one (and influenced by your surroundings) to get a job, find a girl to marry, have kids and eventually settle down for retirement. How is this in any way more natural than seeking freedom through nature?

Individual interpretation. It's a tricky thing, it is.

[AoxomoxoA]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

How can you break free from a system you are born into? You're told from day one (and influenced by your surroundings) to get a job, find a girl to marry, have kids and eventually settle down for retirement. How is this in any way more natural than seeking freedom through nature?

Individual interpretation. It's a tricky thing, it is.

How can you break free from a system you are born into?

Drugs my friend, drugs do the trick.

How is this in any way more natural than seeking freedom through nature?

I just don't like the concept of my life being arranged in some mechanical and linear way. It's not realy living.

[Mashleshmash]

Drugs provide escape and if given the right mindset, is this not what um...exile(if you will) from society would do?

[Xlite]

Not much to debate here.
I did this already, and i will do it again.

Only difference this time will be that i'm not going home again.

[Mashleshmash]

So you think that the hardships and trials that may be experienced by yourself is overall better than the pleasure OR pain endured in society?

I will add that I believe trials is what really makes a person and you know, people never do get enough time in their life to reflect on themselves. Always working towards something, trying to reach this goal that is unreachable that they never get time to stop and say Hey, I'm Alive.

I'm teetering towards leaving society myself but this is why I'm asking for opinions.

[AoxomoxoA]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

Drugs provide escape and if given the right mindset, is this not what um...exile(if you will) from society would do?

Yeah, forget what I said. I think you're on the something. Fuck the system. *80 's anarchist smiley*.

[AoxomoxoA]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

So you think that the hardships and trials that may be experienced by yourself is overall better than the pleasure OR pain endured in society?

I'm teetering towards the former myself but this is why I'm asking for opinions.

I'm chasing beauty and that's not something you find very often in structure except on rare occasions.

[Xlite]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

So you think that the hardships and trials that may be experienced by yourself is overall better than the pleasure OR pain endured in society?

I'm teetering towards the former myself but this is why I'm asking for opinions.

Ofcourse, i'd take myself and mothernature anytime over any society controlled by humans.

There's so much to experience when you're alone in the wild.
You will discover your will to live and start to appreciate smaller things.
Only when there is nothing you must do, can you be truely free.

[Mashleshmash]

Define structure, slag.

Gotta love that individual interpretation

Xlite: You see, that is what my general mindset has been for awhile but to sacrifice your previous life style is such a dramatic change, you know? A risky one.

[AoxomoxoA]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

Define structure.

Gotta love that individual interpretation

Anything with fucking lines in i, alright. Anything that can be represented on a fucking piece of paper. Lines piss me the fuck off.

[Mashleshmash]

Ate joined the party. This should be a good conversation

[Figure-8]

It is feasible to express what you feel. What happens when the flight or fight response is over come by free-will? What are you guided by then?

[Xlite]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

Define structure, slag.

Gotta love that individual interpretation

Xlite: You see, that is what my general mindset has been for awhile but to sacrifice your previous life style is such a dramatic change, you know? A risky one.

That is correct, but why don't you take some time to try it out.
A year maybe? Thats what i did, and its definitely worth it.
Ofcourse you won't be free, like i consider free to be. ( do what you want, rather than what you must )
Because you're leaving things behind with "returning" in mind. So you must go home again.

Thats with my own lifestyle in mind ofcourse. If you really enjoy your current way of life, then there's no need for improval. Happiness is what we're all looking for anyway. So if you got it, stick with it.

[AoxomoxoA]

What's wrong with my interpetation of my surroundings? They're just as valid as yours, even if they're not "reality".

[Mashleshmash]

Originally Posted by ate

It is feasible to express what you feel. What happens when the flight or fight response is over come by free-will? What are you guided by then?

In a world so dark, corrupt, a world that I have had the displeasure of knowing, how will you know when you find free will? It seems so hard to escape what you are born into.

Xlite: Yes I do plan to try this lifestyle out some time. However, I need a fallback plan incase I find that for me, it's not worth it.

Slag: Agreed. What are you getting at?

[Hydroponichronic]

I should clairify that I would not actually do this unless I absolutely had to (SHTF). I enjoy the internet too much to give it up volitionally.

[Mashleshmash]

Oh come on, the internet isn't That great. You only live once, might as well try a different lifestyle out sometime, you know?

You can always return if you want. Changes are not permanent as we all know.

[Figure-8]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

In a world so dark, corrupt, a world that I have had the displeasure of knowing, how will you know when you find free will? It seems so hard to escape what you are born into.

It seems that way because that is what you are buying with your attention, if you want a better world, you start with the self. The individual view makes the collective.

The more you see things that way, the more your view will create what you experience. You are born into using your mind, and free will has become born from that.

[Mashleshmash]

I can agree with that.

[Headspin]

Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic

I should clairify that I would not actually do this unless I absolutely had to (SHTF). I enjoy the internet too much to give it up volitionally.

I'd like to say this is the only thing holding me back, but I know that isn't the truth. I love the ancient of Taoist master living in the mountains, along with a lot of other hermit stories.

As a part of my spiritual journey I feel it will be necessary to one day leave society to venture into nature and progress this self-discovery story. Whether I come back or not only would be known then.

I don't think there is much of a debate here. Even if we despise humans we still crave the need for attention and to reflect with others. If you can transcend the need for contact, you can be alone with the trees.

Even so, leaving this society doesn't necessarily mean you'll be alone.

[Nero]

Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic

No, it's commonly accepted propaganda.

society is like, trying to brainwash us, maaaaaaaaaaaaaan

[Former_Member]

Our surroundings are very different to the ones we are optimised (though evolution) to cope with.

That's my theory on why happiness levels are always falling, and why so many have that desire to just get free of it all and 'live the simple life'.

[Headspin]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

Our surroundings are very different to the ones we are optimised (though evolution) to cope with.

That's my theory on why happiness levels are always falling, and why so many have that desire to just get free of it all and 'live the simple life'.

Robots filling our wine glasses and scratching our asses? Yeah, no surprise we're all depressed when we could have that kind of service.

[nutsack]

Originally Posted by Mashleshmash

How can you break free from a system you are born into? You're told from day one (and influenced by your surroundings) to get a job, find a girl to marry, have kids and eventually settle down for retirement. How is this in any way more natural than seeking freedom through nature?

Individual interpretation. It's a tricky thing, it is.

Personally I was told to do whatever made me happy. Makes sense, despite the other more subtle pressures.

[Mashleshmash]

Well ofcourse, do whatever makes you happy. However, through my perspective, when you are born it is expected that you will most likely live the life style I mentioned. People will tell you to do whatever makes you happy, but it seems they expect what I mentioned. Don't believe me? Drop your whole life and just leave it all behind and get back to all your friends and family and they'd all tell you "Wow, I never saw it coming from you!"