Build Your Own Sports Car for $500

[brickbatbae]

Inspired by Ron Champion's book, I've decided among all the things I've wanted to do during my life and never did--this will NOT be it.

After talking to a few folk about a few slightly relevant things, a couple of you guys pitched me an idea to maybe pick up a Locost project to get me in-tune with the automaking world.

So, as you could have guessed I'm taking this project on.

I have the book. And that's all I have. I have a mediocre knowledge concerning machining and absolutely no knowledge on welding. Or electrical. I'm a grade-A idiot with a big heart and a garage.

First off, I'm going to need to purchase a welder. I would immediately think of an arc-welder, but the book states that it might be difficult to use due to the thin metal I'd be working with, but I guess I can use thicker steel tubing rather than thin square ones. No? I need all the advice and expertise you can offer me with this. (Adds "Welding for Dummies" to amazon shopping cart)
Would a Welding class be necessary?

Another: What instruments would I use to measure angles? Are better instruments absolutely required? (I don't see too much of a problem with a protractor and string).

So, Welder first, then steel, then the donor car, which would be a Ford Escort (not the mk1-2 as the author notes, but just the fact that it's a really cheap car to buy around here (los angeles)). I'm open to ideas about the donor, but I truly want to avoid a more aggressive setup, due to price and my own capabilities, as this project is more of a learning project for me, rather than one to actually create a racecar.

Also, I have full access to a machine shop on campus, so fabricating parts that I could easily carry could be easily machined without problem (brackets and mounts).

Correct me if I sound stupid, but does this plan seem implausible so far?
Oh my. So many questions!

Recap:
-Arc welder or Gas?
-Should I take a welding class, or would it be sufficient to use instructive reads?
-Measuring tools?
-Donor Car (Escort for now)?

Ahh. Haynes Manuals.

I promise pics?

[Zonko]

There's a boy building one at a bodywork class I do. It's a big project, and you're probably looking at a couple of years hard work to get a good one going. You'll want to be looking at a MIG, rather than an arc. You really want to be as precise as possible on a project like this, so/and I would spend as much time as I could in that workshop you mentioned, particularly if you can get a teacher in there to look over your shoulder while you work at it. As for welding - you can take a class if you want, and it will help to no end, but you can also save some money with a bit of trial and error on your own.

[MunkeyQ]

Ah, I have that book too. If you look into it, there's no way in hell you can make it for $500...I was as inspired as you are until I found that out. MkI/II Escorts are no longer as common as when the book was published, and are actually approaching classic status so a rustbucket can cost you £200 alone. Then you've got to buy coilover shocks, which I seem to remember the guy in the book got them for a ridiculously cheap price. And then you've got to service the engine, which may or may not be expensive.

It's a good idea if you budget for considerably more than $500...the general rule of thumb for restoration/building is to settle on a budget and double it. Trust me - from experience, that's true.

If you want to learn welding quickly, a class is the way to go. I taught myself over the period of a couple of years through trial and error and a few tips from more experienced welders. Gas (oxy) is very expensive if you're not going to be using it heavily - the cylinders need to be rented and then the gas bought, which is done on a yearly basis. When you run out of gas within that year, you need to buy more and exchange the cylinders. Also, the cylinders are FUCKING HEAVY. You need a garage without a step or a good trolley.

My advice is to go MIG. Arc welders are hard for a newbie to master and can be unpredictable at times. If you get a cheap gas MIG machine, you should be able to produce some semi-satisfactory results after your first day. I'm not a fan of gasless MIG, although the gas needs to be bought in the same way as oxy does. It just lasts a lot longer and it's one hell of a lot safer. I have an industrial MIG machine as I was able to get it for cheap, but the smaller models are fine for welding box-section in the Locost.

You need a good selection of tools. Welding clamps, set square, angle grinder, puller, tin snips and a good set of files are a few things you may not have already which are absolutely necessary for metalwork. You can probably get all those things second hand for cheap though.

[The Cheshire Cat]

If you've never done any welding before, ARC isn't the way to go unless you have someone there to give you instructions. They don't call it 'stick' welding for nothing. Even after you get the hang of ARC, it takes a long to even get comfortable with it, and knowing which type of rod and diameter for the metal, and the gauge of what you're working with will give you a headache factoring in the amperage's to the gauge and all that other stuff (it's no fun burning through). Not only that but you have to factor in if you're going to be doing AC or DC, or AC/DC with reverse polarity. It also doesn't look very pretty, so if you want it to look nice, ARC isn't a good choice.

MIG on the other hand is very easy to get use to. It's almost 'point and shoot'. All you have to worry about is amperage and wire feed speed if you're doing gasless. It takes a bit of grinding and finishing work for it to look nice, but it's a lot less work than trying to do finishing work on an ARC weld.

[MunkeyQ]

^^ I want to own an arc welder if only so I can say I have a slag hammer.

[The Cheshire Cat]

Originally Posted by MunkeyQ

^^ I want to own an arc welder if only so I can say I have a slag hammer.

Can't weld without rod



I used a pen for size comparison.

[brickbatbae]

Thanks guys for all the help you've given me.

So I'm going with the MIG, I should get one by the end of this month (hopefully). As for the budget, I completely understand that 250 Pounds ain't gonna cut shit, but I'm not sweating the price knowing that it would be spent over the course of a few years. I'd be surprised if I run under two grand, and ya'll probably would too. Concerning tools, I have most noted, and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase more, cause we can never have too many tools

Concerning Ron's Design, do you guys think it would be a problem if I changed my mind on the drivetrain setup (i.e, different engine) after finishing the chassis? Looks pretty small in the engine bay, with little room for mixing and matching.

I'm considering a 1993-96 escort for the donor, they run pretty cheap in fairly good working condition. Even considering using a buggy. Ideas? I've found a few good buggy engines that pump out 170HP for a couple hundred, but a $400 escort comes with everything else I need from tires to gauges.

Oh and guys. What kind of MIG welder do you guys recommend? I don't like working with gas because I'm fairly clumsy-headed and fucking around with explosives and left-handed threads don't go together for me. Smaller the better. Also, I'd rather not take any classes that aren't absolutely essential, for I'm an engineering major and my course workload is pretty full.

As for instruction with the machining/welding, my professor loves to help on projects like this. His old student won 200 Million from Yamaha and Suzuki a few years back on a suspension setup they pitched to them. They stole his single-arm suspension idea that my Prof and He designed for motorbikes. Guy loves projects.

All in all, I want this to be a group effort kind of thing. I won't touch a thing until I run it through you guys, and the thought of having a ton of people's ideas in one car is pretty spectacular, as long as it isn't completely fucknut insane and within my capabilities . I promise I'll draft every idea I have with my awesome 3D CADD skillz and post 'em up.

[Venom]

I was thinking about something like this a while ago along the lines of something like this.

[brickbatbae]

So about the MIG welder, which one exactly should I buy?

I'm thinking gas/gasless welder. Here's one.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb...079590739.html

Seem like a candidate?

Do I need some sort of amplifier or power converter?

[MediumD]

Something like that will sorta work. It won't work very well, especially if you use the flux wire instead of using gas. That particular one plugs into a regular 110v wall socket. It can weld 18 gauge... well 18 gauge is thin compared to some of the things you'll need to weld. If you have 220v socket available (used for things like clothes dryers, hot tubs, other high power appliances,) get a 220 welder. You can turn a big welder down to the level of a little one, but you can't turn a little one up to the level of a big one...

[ytter_man]

^What he said. Make sure you have a 220 plug in your workspace before purchasing a 220 welder.

Also, be prepared to replace the hose liner in a used MIG, they wear down with time.

[brickbatbae]

So a 220v MIG welder is what I'm looking for... and if I don't have a 220 wall socket? Is there any way to convert a 110 to a 220? I do have one for the laundry machine, maybe I could disconnect it when I'm working and get some sort of extension cable?

Can somebody just post a link to an example of the ideal (cheap/effective) welding setup? Fuck, I don't know shit.

[The Cheshire Cat]

Originally Posted by brickbatbae

So a 220v MIG welder is what I'm looking for... and if I don't have a 220 wall socket? Is there any way to convert a 110 to a 220? I do have one for the laundry machine, maybe I could disconnect it when I'm working and get some sort of extension cable?

Can somebody just post a link to an example of the ideal (cheap/effective) welding setup? Fuck, I don't know shit.

Since I doubt you are going to need anything above 130 amps. The 110v MIG should do you fine. It's also a good idea because there is less chance of you burning through metal/aluminum with a medium cap on your amperage. This will also make you weld slower and more thorough to get good penetration. Also, I don't think they make 220v extension cords. At least I've never seen one.

As for the setup, are you going to be welding outside/inside? If it's inside, you could go with gas, but that's kind of tricky and not really for beginners. If most of it's going to be outside, I'd just get a gasless flux core wire. The diameter of the wire depends on what gauge of steel/metal you're going to be working with.

As for a setup, I'd get a Firepower 110v MIG welder that goes upwards of 130 Amps and a medium diameter wire. This will give you good practice at first.

Any other questions just go ahead and ask.

EDIT: This is for your own safety. Get yourself a pair of actual Gauntlet welding gloves, and an auto darkening mask.



The mask makes it a hell of a lot easier to see where you are going to start. It's also nice because it darkens automatically to the correct level so you don't have to worry about having the correct lens in.

[MunkeyQ]

Originally Posted by Expl0itz

to get good penetration.

lol, penetration

Anyway, as for welding outside - use gas and just buy a beach windblock. Gas vs. gasless is really no comparison...there's a reason why the pros never use gasless. Gas is in general easier for a beginner to use as well, I'm not sure what the prejudice here is about it. Flux cored gasless tends to spit and

I have a 150 amp pro MIG setup which can handle almost anything you throw at it. For thin walled box section, a small portable one with disposable cylinders of Coogar gas is probably your best bet as you won't kill your back but it'll be better than a flux cored machine. Note that it's better to get a bigger machine than you need and just turn the current down as it'll be much more stable - a small welder on full power is in my experience unpredictable when working on metal near its limits.

If you can afford it, get an auto darkening helmet. These are so much better than one with normal glass as you cannot see a single thing until the arc lights up. With experience this isn't so much of a problem but I know when I started out it was a pain.

[brickbatbae]

130 amps, i don't know. I might need to weld things that are thicker than 18 gauge. Actually, I'm sure of it. So, I should get a 220 MIG that uses gas. This stuff looks really, really hard.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb...079337063.html

Look like a pretty candidate? Or would I need higher output. For the locost, I think I'm going to need something that can weld pretty damn well.

Edit:
Alright, I'm extremely confused. Some of you are saying certain 110's with weld for most things, while others say welding with a 110 is a waste of time. I'm welding up a frame/chassis, and I'll be working with steel up to 3mm thick. For instance the book uses 16swg gauge steel for the frame, and bracket thicknesses up to 3mm thick. Since the usual 110's weld up to 18 gauge, it's not within my limit, and I want to be above my limit, correct?

So, gas and 220v? or am I wrong about the 110s?

[eesakiwi]

Originally Posted by Expl0itz

to get good penetration.

Good pentration depends on a lot of things.

Like whether your are working with Virgin metal or a common Ore.

The Thickness of your base metal & the Size of your Rod, how much Grunt you put behind it & how well you Weild your Stick.

It also depends on your Root preperation & how you Ground it Out, a little Lick or a Full Depth Gouging & how Clean it is & the absence of Impuritys.

If you Warmed it up or if its been Preheated from a Solid Frigid state before you Started on the Job too.

If there is a possibility of Slag getting into the Crack after you put in your first Root Run & your attention to cleanlyness afterwards, before starting on you Capping Runs.

Theres also you position you are in & if the work is Overhead or Downhand, taking into account the Ejection of Hot Substances & what Protections you have taken beforehand.

Doing a good Coupling of the Two Starting Items can reward you with a solid single Product that you would be proud to call your Own.


Yeah, I think that should cover it for the meantime...

***
Hey anyway, build a Go Kart, you will learn what you need to & figure out ways round problems you never knew would happen.

The Mig welder above is a good start, not great, but good, I have used one with Gasless wire & was impressed with it.
It won't burn thru & you can fill gaps easy like, expensive when it comes to wire though.

They have a few problem that can occour with using Gas, like the design.

Like if theres a constriction somewhere up the lead, the gas tends to flow back out the 'wire in' part, & that theres no solienoid for the gas, its a button valve on the handle instead, more mucking around.
Also the bit where you screw in the tip (thread) can get deformed & the tip shorts out on the nozzle. Make sure the threads are clean before screwin it back in.
I have one (its in peices, I'm setting it up to use a big roll of 0.9mm wire) & would rather use the stick at the moment.

I have a Cebora 150 amp DC.
Cebora is a good brand, I have had no problems with mine & have got a lot of use from it.
I run it at between 55 amps & 80 amps & use '56s' rods (7012?) Low Hydrogen as thats what I normally weld with at work.
Theres a clear defination between the colour of the weldmetal & the flux thru the helmit. That makes welding a lot easyer.

The General purpose rods I don't like as its all the same colour, then it burns thru, won't cross gaps too, good for thick metal with the amps turned up only.

Cebora make a home handyman Mig too.
I dunno about the 110 Volt thing, we have 240Volt @ 10 Amp & thats it, except for workshops which have 440 Volt AC.

I have made a Go Kart using a trampoline frame & a motorbike engine & some scrap steel, a steel tube bed bunk & some car parts & a plastic garden seat.

Theres other stuff I used, like car AC pump pullys as wheel bearings/hubs for the front wheels.
Car seat adjusters for the seat & safety belt parts too.
Motorbike swingarm & shocks for front suspension.
Some fitness equipment as scrap steel.
Petrol cans as fuel tanks (or use Motorcycle tanks, don't look as good, but no mucking about then).

Except for the welding rods & engine most of its free.

Get a thick wall tubing trampoline frame, easyer to weld.
I used a section from a steel drum for the bit behind the seat & a 1/2 a oil panel heater (split down the center, you need to drill out the spot welds) for the sheet of steel under the frame.
You could use a Ali street sign for that, just screw it on, or pop rivet.
Bike pedals as foot pedals.

I have posted this same info on Totse2 too.
Once I figure out how to post pics, yes I don't know how to.. I will post them & also my next few Carts I intend to make up.

I have most of everything (frames & motors etc) I need, its all free from here on except for small stuff & welding rods.

Selling the first cart will provide money for that anyway.
(selling stuff is a bitch, everyone hears what you want for it & then start to squirm & point out stuff & want you to drop the price. I point out that if they were to build one, its going to cost them more in parts & its not even assembled & going...!)

I'll check out this thread I a few days & might have some pics by then.

I have 3 gokarts in motion now.
Ones a side engine 125cc racing sorta sort. Fat wide square profile wheels.
Ones a tramp framed stationary OHV Villiers engine with wheelbarrow wheels.
The others a 250cc Honda 3 wheeler engine (behind driver) with 3 wheeler wheels on rear & 4 wheer wheels with suspension on the front.

I found this site too.
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=10

[The Cheshire Cat]

Your low hydrogen rods are 7018 EP(reversed polarity)/EN. It's what I use mostly at work. They are smooth, and are very strong rods. Blast through paint pretty well. They aren't the greatest and prettiest looking welds after (a lot better then 6011), but the slag is very easy to chip away if you're a good welder. I'm not quite sure what the best rod for finishing would be, since I almost never do any finishing work. Just prep, weld (multiple passes if needed) cool and paint.

Also, make sure you know what your duty cycle is on your welder.


P.S. If you want to have a little fun with your welder take an aluminum welding rod on DC EP with the amperage up.
(for those arc welders out there)