BB guns for training??

[ACE_187]

I've never used an airsoft gun, but i saw those little plastic things they shoot (i think they are plastic) and I want to train with something (like have a partner and us shooting at each other) but I want it to hurt more.

I saw this walther bb gun, it's a replica and the slide actually goes back when you shoot (so i guess it has recoil). I want to get a couple of these and get another guy and we can go in the woods or wherever and practice by shooting at each other. I would wear goggles so in case it hit me in the eye but is this a good idea? It seems like the most realistic way to train.

Which ones are best? I mainly want a semi auto one that the co2 lasts the longest on but i really liked the walther though. Does a co2 cartridge last you a while? I dont want to always have to be changing it.

[Bin "Fuck Towers" Laden]

eh better than nothing. they are inaccurate though

[ACE_187]

Originally Posted by Bin "Fuck Towers" Laden

eh better than nothing. they are inaccurate though

The walther ones? or bb pistols in general? It's pretty much just for close range and learning to aim faster.

[virgil caine]

bb guns are great i had a crossman pump that i learned the basics of marksmanship with i could shoot that thing amazeingly well and would spend hours a day in my yard after school shooting cans sparrows targets for a 50 dollar rifle it lasted long and must of shot many many thousands of bbs in the couple of years i had it im pretty sure it was a powermaster 66

the pistols are allright too you can work on the basics of trigger control and safe gun handleing in your basement or yard its better than nothing and still fun while being legal allmost everywhere most of those 17 cal rotary clip co2 ones suck though they barely last 500 pelets at least in my experience i went through 3 or 4 of them before giving up

[Vargus]

Cheap BB guns don't have rifled barrels, and you'll need one if you want any sort of accuracy using round balls.

[ACE_187]

I saw one in cheaperthandirt that is a 15 shot and it says one co2 will last you 80 shots and it's like 400 fps. That doesn't sound bad.

[fuckbiscuit]

Why don't you get a semi-decent pellet pistol? i'm sure if you spent like $100-150 you'd get a helluva good deal on a good .177 or .22 target shooting model (probably ass loads more accurate than a BB gun, especially if you get the proper target shooting pellets and stuff and even more so if it was in .177 cal).

I'm no expert but it's just a suggestion you might want to take, hell, you could even waste vermin with it for practice! rats, crows.... go to a pond and fuck some ducks up or something? use your imagination holmes, i used to have a fun ass time with my pretty cheap .22 air rifle even though it wasn't the most powerful thing in the world and the scope sucked (well, technically i suck because i didn't really know how to zero it in properly, but i was a pretty wicked shot with the iron sights when i first got it! ).

[ACE_187]

Originally Posted by fuckbiscuit

Why don't you get a semi-decent pellet pistol? i'm sure if you spent like $100-150 you'd get a helluva good deal on a good .177 or .22 target shooting model (probably ass loads more accurate than a BB gun, especially if you get the proper target shooting pellets and stuff and even more so if it was in .177 cal).

I'm no expert but it's just a suggestion you might want to take, hell, you could even waste vermin with it for practice! rats, crows.... go to a pond and fuck some ducks up or something? use your imagination holmes, i used to have a fun ass time with my pretty cheap .22 air rifle even though it wasn't the most powerful thing in the world and the scope sucked (well, technically i suck because i didn't really know how to zero it in properly, but i was a pretty wicked shot with the iron sights when i first got it! ).

For one thing i think pellets would be more likely to break the skin. I want it to hurt but I dont want to have to cut them out of me. Or maybe not. a pellet at 400fps may not be able to break the skin from a little distance. But the pellet pistols only hold like 8 when you can get a bb pistol that has 15

[virgil caine]

Originally Posted by ACE_187

For one thing i think pellets would be more likely to break the skin. I want it to hurt but I dont want to have to cut them out of me. Or maybe not. a pellet at 400fps may not be able to break the skin from a little distance. But the pellet pistols only hold like 8 when you can get a bb pistol that has 15

dont underestimate these a 150 fps red ryder will go about a quarter inch into your leg from point blank


a 400 fps pelet gun will definitly break your skin and probably go in a good ammount up to about 30-40 feet away and probably further than that its not a toy


i had a freind who shot a pelet through his fingernail and out the other side because he had his hand over the muzzle and pulled the trigger

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by fuckbiscuit

Why don't you get a semi-decent pellet pistol? i'm sure if you spent like $100-150 you'd get a helluva good deal on a good .177 or .22 target shooting model (probably ass loads more accurate than a BB gun, especially if you get the proper target shooting pellets and stuff and even more so if it was in .177 cal).

I'm no expert but it's just a suggestion you might want to take, hell, you could even waste vermin with it for practice! rats, crows.... go to a pond and fuck some ducks up or something? use your imagination holmes, i used to have a fun ass time with my pretty cheap .22 air rifle even though it wasn't the most powerful thing in the world and the scope sucked (well, technically i suck because i didn't really know how to zero it in properly, but i was a pretty wicked shot with the iron sights when i first got it! ).

.25 caliber pellet guns can take small hogs if you hit the brain stem.

[chilldo]

some of these guys posting are suggesting you do this with pellet guns. are you fucking nuts?

its called AIRSOFT, alot of ppl prefer it to paintball cuz its cheaper, quieter, and cleaner.

if you want pistols look for gas blow backs or GBBs
if you want rifles look for airsoft electric guns or AEGs


i recommend a pistol that takes "green gas" (not CO2) because they can be filled using propane which is so cheap its basically free, it also shoots bb's at about 320 fps. co2 on the other hand can get expensive.

also the gas for these GBBs is held in the magazine so a magazine change reloads the gun with fresh bb's and fresh propellant. you just refill the gas in all your magazines every couple rounds

a decent quality gun is also very accurate at short range.


if you want something that HURTS you can consider getting yourself a full auto AEG and modifying it to shoot at 600+ FPS, they typically shoot around 320FPS stock. itll cost you alot of money tho

[nutsack]

Training? Get a nice CO2 .177 pistol, you can get ones that shoot both pellets and bbs. Good for practicing some drills and can take down small birds etc. A good one can shoot 450fps or so and will be nice and accurate.

Probably don't want to get shot by one of those though. Stick to airsoft if you just want to shoot each other, but remember there is a lot more stuff you can do for practice. An airsoft war will end up just being a test of fieldcraft and a test of who can compensate for their weapons bad accuracy at range the best. Good airsoft guns do hurt.

[Ebola]

Subscribed. Will be back with in depth post.

[Ebola]

OP, I´m not really sure what it is you want to train but...

Airsoftguns (ASG´s) are not only used for kids play but also for LE and military training (especially for CQB/CQC) and in MilSim (Military Simulations).
Your out-of-the-box standard electric ASG (AEG) @ 60-100$ will easily hit people at 50yds and fire 15-20 BBs a second. They will shoot about 300FPS OOTB and can be modified and tuned to 700+ FPS (5+ joule)! I have hit man sized targets with a 450 FPS gun at 100yds.

At short range they hit HARD! - Personally I have two busted knuckles from point blank range hits. The BBs chipped part of the finger bone and I have permanent "blobs" on the two knuckles. I have had countless small wounds and puncture marks, seen people have teeth shot out, BBs embedded in the skin and so on. Why you would ever want to fire steel BBs at your friend is beyond me - mayby some machocism, but surely it´s not about ASG lack of power or realism.
For your viewing pleasure, here are a few pics of some airsoft gun damage:


As to realism you can get ASGs with recoil and shell ejection. It doesn´t get much better than that.

[nutsack]

Those guys really need to turn down the power on their guns... worst I've seen is a chipped tooth and a bit of blood from a nose, but I've only played airsoft once. I agree that firing steel bbs or pellets at each other is a bad idea, stick to the plastic if you want to do that.

[SHARP]

^^Well put, but plastic can hurt plenty, got a scar on my elbow from a strafe shot fired from about 45 ft away, and know a guy who ended up with three BB's in his face, the last one came out of his nasal septum after two weeks of prodding and preying... Another one got a burst to the face from point blank and I heard him on the radio as he tapped out, when the rest of the team pulled back we met him inbound with a bandage covering his eye and a few holes in his cheek and jaw, when we asked him what happened he said -"I flanked them (3 guys we were pinning) and took them out, one of them panicked and turned around while firing, when I opened my eyes again there was blood in the cockpit...", then he took off his goggles and showed us - there was blood sprayed on the inside...
Luckily his eye was intact but a few millimeters lower and he'd lost it, we take it that the BB came in just below the brim of his boonie and just above his goggles; he'd been hit between the eye and eye brow...

Besides that, I've seen countless hits that drew blood, and made a few myself, all from 6mm plastic...

[Masuvius]

why not jut get a quality .43 caliber paintball gun and play soldier with that? If you are feeling the need to up the pain level put them in the freezer for an hour or two before using them. Though I suspect getting shot with one without proper gear ( IE: regular clothing and mask) will be more than enough to register on the pain level you seek.

[Bin "Fuck Towers" Laden]

what? are you using special bb's?

the plastic bb's ive seen are crappy and they shatter if they hit something hard, i don't see how they could chip bone

[Rolf]

Rolf has only toyed with an airsoft gun once, played paintball quite a bit a few years ago, it's much more expensive, Rolf also knows that it's fucking painful enough to be hit by a BB gun (drunk idiots should not have weapons of in any form), states Rolf. If one is to have some fun with said airsoft, Rolf has a few suggestions; firstly, quality goggles, preferably impact resistant and possibly something to cover the face of thee, secondly, avoid extreme close range contact if possible (just look at Ebolas pics for examples of why one should) and avoid shooting people in the face region if possible, thirdly, and most importantly, don't go wearing badges and insignia on the uniform of thee if one has not earned them - it makes one look like quite the idiot (and quite a few do it), go fourth and conquer in the name of Rolf, proclaims Rolf.

[slicknickns]

Watch for lead poisoning

[p6867]

Originally Posted by ACE_187

I've never used an airsoft gun, but i saw those little plastic things they shoot (i think they are plastic) and I want to train with something (like have a partner and us shooting at each other) but I want it to hurt more.

I saw this walther bb gun, it's a replica and the slide actually goes back when you shoot (so i guess it has recoil). I want to get a couple of these and get another guy and we can go in the woods or wherever and practice by shooting at each other. I would wear goggles so in case it hit me in the eye but is this a good idea? It seems like the most realistic way to train.

Which ones are best? I mainly want a semi auto one that the co2 lasts the longest on but i really liked the walther though. Does a co2 cartridge last you a while? I dont want to always have to be changing it.

Airsoft/paintball/bb guns are not appropriate training tools.
Pellet and BB guns are good for teaching you marskmanship fundamentals, but you will not learn combat movement, tactics or shooting from shooting your buddy.

[Ebola]

Originally Posted by p6867

Airsoft/paintball/bb guns are not appropriate training tools.

Short of real steel guns what would you propose as an alternative?
I can only think of the FX-System and that recuires a much higher level of protective gear especially for CQB. Other things tried have been various "laser-tag" systems but they fail on realism in the fact that it gets easier to hit at longer ranges due to the sensors.

With the more limited power of the airsoftguns (with effective ranges about 150´ / 50m) they are perfect for CQB training, built more and more realistic, with the RAP5 I linked previously, ejecting shells and new both electris and gas blow-back guns offer recoil.
A reknown airsiftgun manufactorer (Systema) has also made the PTW (Personal Training Weapon) costing $1,500.00. It is NOT made to "play around" the back yard; it is made for LE/Mil training and is very realistic and durable.

Pellet and BB guns are good for teaching you marskmanship fundamentals, but you will not learn combat movement, tactics or shooting from shooting your buddy.

I beg to differ. Unless your alternative is real combat, there is no better CQB training weapon than an airsoftgun. And actually I think opposite of you on this. Airsoftguns are bad (compared to RS) for teaching marksmanship fundamentals as the recoil is less or non-exixtent, trigger pull is very different and then the range. But they are good for training movement and tactics.
I used to go airsofting/training with a team of up to 9 others (SHARP incl.) and we used to move as a main "train" or "snake" with SHARP as sniper. We were out every week for many years. We got very good not only at combat movement but also tactics and communication, and probably got more CBQ training than your average SWAT member at the time. Also we were not shooting our "buddy" but other often well organized teams.

In longer Mil-Sim style games it adds an even greater level of realism in form of strategy, planning, sleeping with constant guard, coverrt eating, vehicles, orders and objectives and much more.

With the current alternatives being blankfire RS or FX I´d say airsoftguns are the best training weapon available.


Pics in spoiler:

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[IMG][/IMG]

[p6867]

Originally Posted by Ebola

Pics in spoiler:
[IMG][/IMG]

BB guns and Pellet guns can be used to practice the fundamentals of marksmanship, Breathe Relax Aim Squeeze, gaining and maintaining a consistent sight picture, using the pad of your index finger etc.

Airsoft guns are very useful if you want to practice combat movement and communication, in fact that they are just as useful as squirt guns, a stick or rubber ducks in that they are a prop you hold while you go about those activities. Also who is training you in this scenario or is it just the blind leading the blind?
Is that picture you?
Also please explain how you had a 'Sniper'

[Ebola]

Originally Posted by p6867

BB guns and Pellet guns can be used to practice the fundamentals of marksmanship, Breathe Relax Aim Squeeze, gaining and maintaining a consistent sight picture, using the pad of your index finger etc.

For a fast follow-up shot, bursts and full auto airsoftguns would give a very unrealistic representation and such give you a wrong "feel" to taking the shot and regaining your sight. But you are right that they are better than whatever other tool you might find, like a rubber duck.

Airsoft guns are very useful if you want to practice combat movement and communication, in fact that they are just as useful as squirt guns, a stick or rubber ducks in that they are a prop you hold while you go about those activities.

But you prefer not adding the element of actually taking the shot or firing at moving targets and actually hitting them?? And for realistic radio communications training you just sit in two different rooms?
"Training should be conducted under the most realistic circumstances". The more "real" elements you can add the better training. How do you get good at giving orders by radio when under fire, if no-one ever shot at you while training?

Also who is training you in this scenario or is it just the blind leading the blind?

You mean in general or me personally? Or the individual scenarios?

Is that picture you?

Yes

Also please explain how you had a 'Sniper'

He would be "disattached" from the main unit and wearing a ghilliesuit. Mostly he would sneak into a good opservation spot and feed info to the rest and sometimes he would flank or cover the rear of a building we were assulting. He fired single shots from about max range of others while remaining hidden.
And on the topic of hiding and realism, airsoft ghillies (and hiding in general) requires much more attention as ranges are 50yds+ and not 200+.

[p6867]

Originally Posted by Ebola

For a fast follow-up shot, bursts and full auto airsoftguns would give a very unrealistic representation and such give you a wrong "feel" to taking the shot and regaining your sight. But you are right that they are better than whatever other tool you might find, like a rubber duck.

I can't express to yo how not talking about airsoft guns i was BB AND PELLET GUNS ARE GOOD FOR LEARNING MARKSMANSHIP FUNDAMENTALS. Airsoft guns are probably not.

But you prefer not adding the element of actually taking the shot or firing at moving targets and actually hitting them?? And for realistic radio communications training you just sit in two different rooms?
"Training should be conducted under the most realistic circumstances". The more "real" elements you can add the better training. How do you get good at giving orders by radio when under fire if no-one ever shot at you while training?

firing airsoft rounds at human beings who are trying to do the same has closer to nothing than a lot in common with firing live rounds at human beings who are trying to do the same

You mean in general or me personally? Or the individuyal scenarios?

I mean you have no real training.

Yes

No offense dude, but hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hhahahahahahhahahahhahaha.

Is this the face of a bro that's telling me i'm wrong about combat training? What do you know about killing and dying?

[Ebola]

Originally Posted by p6867

firing airsoft rounds at human beings who are trying to do the same has closer to nothing than a lot in common with firing live rounds at human beings who are trying to do the same

Yeah, it doesn´t kill anyone...

I mean you have no real training.

Not that it´s relevant for the thread, but I was taught to shoot by my dad when 6 and been trained in both firearms and hand-to-hand combat. I have also shot pistol (.22 and 9mm) on competion level.

No offense dude, but hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha hhahahahahahhahahahhahaha.

None taken. So how do you look when "training"?

Is this the face of a bro that's telling me i'm wrong about combat training?

What´s wrong with that? You never been wrong before?

What do you know about killing and dying?

I don´t need to kill anyone to feel a bigger man and I would never join the illegal wars of aggression raging the World these days. How many hours of CQB excercise have you had?

[5.56 SS109]

OP I would say if you are set on this idea of using nonguns for Force on Force that you should buy some cheap "green gas" airsoft gun and get an adapter to let you fill them with propane as oppose to Green Gas (Green Gas is just expensive propane).

You could probably set up two guns and get all the stuff you need for under $150.

Shooting each other with CO2 powered .177 caliber BB guns is a stupid idea as they will go into your skin/neck/eye.

[p6867]

Originally Posted by Ebola

Yeah, it doesn´t kill anyone...

you don't react the same way to being shot at when the consequence is dying and there's smoke and blood and terror. Totally different experience.

Not that it´s relevant for the thread, but I was taught to shoot by my dad when 6 and been trained in both firearms and hand-to-hand combat. I have also shot pistol (.22 and 9mm) on competion level.

but no one involved was ever trained in combat shooting in a formal way?

None taken. So how do you look when "training"?

goggles, baseball cap, black cargo pants.

What´s wrong with that? You never been wrong before?

I taught light infantry tactics and movement for the US Army. So while i have been wrong before, i assure you i am not now.

I don´t need to kill anyone to feel a bigger man and I would never join the illegal wars of aggression raging the World these days. How many hours of CQB excercise have you had?

I don't feel a bigger man for having killed people, but when you speak on this subjec, at the core, you're talking about killing. I have made my living in this field for most of the 9 years of my adulthood. 6 years as an army ranger, 1 year as a civilian instructor and I started working as a military contractor earlier this year. I have thousands of hours of experience in my field.

[Duelist]

while I haven't read this thread, I think you should just get a .22. There is a real danger with one of those. When you hit a goose in the back of the neck and it slumps over, the results are tangible. If you hit your buddy with the bb... big deal. Also, a .22 provides some sense of recoil, if you get a bolt action you get a sense of that... the action while you keep your eyes trained on your target....

Small clip capacity...

just get a damned .22 and master the irons.

[Painzstake]

P6867 apart from live firing drills what do you suggest as a viable alternative to combat training then? Personally i don't see a problem with airsoft training as it will teach fundamentals of combat ie not moving out in the open, accounting for enemy movement, firing arcs etc. Just the basic and nothing more. Obviously it isn't going to be anything like real combat, but as a training platform it's going to give a simulation of how they would act in a real fight minus all the inherent danger, emotions and so on. So as long as they aren't stupid and learn from mistake made it's better than nothing. That isn't to say this is the best training out there by no means, but it gives an opposing force who a civilian is likely to encounter. If they were to come up against trained soldiers they would obviously get smashed because they don't have field proven tactics however it will put them above your average civilian of whom they are likely to encounter most. So on that level I'd say it's functional training scenario, but as for becoming a truly effective and operational force you need proper training example joining the military.

[nutsack]

Originally Posted by Ebola

Other things tried have been various "laser-tag" systems but they fail on realism in the fact that it gets easier to hit at longer ranges due to the sensors.

Military here uses a laser-tag system attached to rifles loaded with blanks in some exercises.

[p6867]

I firmly believe that all ad hoc combat training is a waste of time. The live fire ranges in the army do a great job getting you ready for explosions and the smell of cordite and fear, but as far as something someone could create on a budget goes I just don't see it. When your line crumbles, it's guys who have had what to do in that situation drilled into them who survive. Regular dudes just die.

[LavaRed]

I think hunting small animals and deer is something that teaches you a lot about moving in the field. Of course it doesn't come close to the stress of a combat situation, but at least you learn not to trip over branches and make noise. And that's rather useful out in the woods.

[944]

Originally Posted by Ebola

For your viewing pleasure, here are a few pics of some airsoft gun damage:

....And dumb fuck airsoft guys get pissy when a paintball field ells them they have to wear a mask

[The Swede]

Originally Posted by 944

....And dumb fuck airsoft guys get pissy when a paintball field ells them they have to wear a mask

Or you don't play with fucking morons like those guys obviosly have.

[adhesive tape]

Originally Posted by Masuvius

why not jut get a quality .43 caliber paintball gun and play soldier with that? If you are feeling the need to up the pain level put them in the freezer for an hour or two before using them. Though I suspect getting shot with one without proper gear ( IE: regular clothing and mask) will be more than enough to register on the pain level you seek.

You retarded. Good quality paintball guns are in .68 caliber (other than crappy mislim pistols, which suck) and freezing paintballs does not make them hard, it makes them more fragile, they easily fall apart, usually before even making into the breech/leaving that barrel.

[Ebola]

Originally Posted by p6867

you don't react the same way to being shot at when the consequence is dying and there's smoke and blood and terror. Totally different experience.

No doubt that´s true! But from that to saying that you can get the same out of training with rubber ducks is as wrong as it can get from where I see it. Ever since the beginning of combat training (both ancient and modern) there has been a desire to train with simulated weapons to avoid real injury but still get closer than with a "rubber duck". This is seen from archeological findings in form of wooden training swords (both in real artefacts and in drawings and litterature) to the development of various modern military training systems like laser and "Simunitions" systems. Simply put it is so effective that it is being adopted by many LE and MIL forces as training. Especially in "kill houses", CQB and hostage training it comes to its best as range does not become an unrealistic feature.

but no one involved was ever trained in combat shooting in a formal way?

On the contrary many of the "serious" players (destincting from the ever exisistent group of teens in sweat suits running around like headless chickens) are or have been professional soldiers, and some in the DIB (Danish International Brigade) with recent experience from both Iraq and Afghanistan. Many also attend shooting ranges for actual weapons handling and target practice.

I taught light infantry tactics and movement for the US Army. So while i have been wrong before, i assure you i am not now.

With all respect for your training and experience I assure you than many initial casualties in every single armed urban conflict could have been avoided if the soldiers had more simulated CQB. What system they could have used is irrelevant, but airsoft is one of the possible ones. If you insist that you can train your troops to a just as efficient force without I claim you are wrong. You are most likely drilling the troops using blank fire in CQB training grounds, as it is now. Why on Earth would you not implement more realistic training equipment?

I have thousands of hours of experience in my field.

And have you fired or conducted excercises using Simunitions or similar? If yes, why did you do it (since it gives nothing) or why does airsoft not give anything (if Simunitions does)?

Also, in case you didn´t notice, the pic with "is that the face of..." is of course a green balaclava. I always wear a wire mesh face mask under a balaclave, safety approved goggles or glasses, proctectice gloves and where possible no exposed skin. I don´t "toy around", I don´t think it´s "cool" to get BB´s stuck in my skin and when I go out it is mostly on "missions" where I have a part in the planning as well as excecution. Often they run over 24 or more hours and I get to practice not only combat movement, movement and fire, leap-frogging, navigation, tactics , communication and basic "camp skills" but also actually aiming and firing at people who are shooting back. We employ grenades, mines and claymores, many have NVG and some are getting their hands on Gen II and even Gen III NVO.

So to sum it up, YES airsoft guns can be used to great effect as training weapons, also for "formal" military training. Why you have chosen not to adopt them is beyond me.

P.S. Here are some pics of a new setup I´m working on. Still need to get a good PTT and setup pouches in optimal positions (which is one more thing you can figure out by airsoft training).

[p6867]

Ok, compared to how many hours you play airsoft against other people, how often do you practice CQC and your stack without pushing down a trigger? How much time do you spend on drills? Because that's your fundamentals. Once those are perfect, then its time to get a little bit fancy with some FOF and build off that foundation. What i'm trying to say, is it sounds like you guys are playing a game and not using appropriate training methods. Shooting is the least important aspect of what you are practicing. In all seriousness, I'd have rather have my guys do obstacle courses, CQC and urban drills, live fire drills and LIM tactics than FOF. FOF is a fun reward like dodgeball. Everything else i mentioned is the hard work that prepares you.

[Ebola]

Thanks a lot for clarifying. Finally I think I know what is giving us a so different view on this - I forgot (didn´t think about) mentioning that where I live (Denmark) we have constription with draft. Every year between a third and half of all men above the age of 18 get drafted into the armed forces (with possibility of refusing to carry arms and serving the civil defense insted). I think most of the people interested in airsoft here have also been serving in some branch, considering that you must be 18+ to own an airsoft gun. So from that comes naturally that (almost) everyone participating have gone through basic training and more branch specific training. So though the Danish "Armed Conscripts" are not the best trained most there have gone through basic training. The ones who haven´t are still there there from interest, and that should make you think of what interest and mayby what "informal" training they might have, especially if facing them as "enemies". Countering SOPs is much easier than what some people with little or no formal training might come up with.

Originally Posted by p6867

Ok, compared to how many hours you play airsoft against other people, how often do you practice CQC and your stack without pushing down a trigger? How much time do you spend on drills?

I don´t mind sharing a bit of PI on that, but don´t take it representable for Danish airsofters. It used to be around 60/40 - My team of 5-8 would show up every single Sunday and whenever no other team showed we practiced stacking and clearing our way around the factory complex. A few times a month we would plan specific training on a non-game day where we would practice anything from rapelling/abseiling or target practice to more planned hostage situations etc. We were also friends meeting almost every evening and discussing tactics, strategy, planning for the next "big game" or whatever.
Now I got married, have a job and family and so on, and if lucky I only get out once a month, so though I´m in much worse physical shape, I still know what I have learned and can use it much better in a tactical situation.

What i'm trying to say, is it sounds like you guys are playing a game and not using appropriate training methods. Shooting is the least important aspect of what you are practicing.

Might be that´s true for some while others strictly follow SOPs and train off field as well.

In all seriousness, I'd have rather have my guys do obstacle courses, CQC and urban drills, live fire drills and LIM tactics than FOF. FOF is a fun reward like dodgeball. Everything else i mentioned is the hard work that prepares you.

The airsofters either do that when at work, are done and "too old" or have mayby done it enough and mayby they are just out to play "dodge ball" for fun using some of their training, and by using a skill you are also practicing it, ergo airsoft is good for training

[Ebola]

Thought I´d share the newest pics of my current airsoft-related project here as well

The NVG is a a Gen 1 - 1x24