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  #1  
Old 07-07-2011, 03:45 PM
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Embarrassed So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Economics isn't my primary field but boy-oh-boy does "USA defaulting on loans" sound scary as fuck. Imagine the USA going the way of Greece! I haven't followed this issue too closely, as my doctor has advised me to avoid getting more than a cursory glance at American politics for the sake of my blood pressure, but it seems the Republicans are playing their retarded populist game yet again. They seem to be at the point where Republicans have realized they can't just let America default, but the main debate seems to be where to take cuts from. Republicans want to protect the rich assholes who got the entire world into this mess in the first place whilst cutting social spending and the reverse for the Democrats. I try to stay away from partisanship but if I were an American I could find no reason whatsoever to support the Republicans anymore; they truly are the Alabama of the political world (no offense to Alabamians, but your state is just ridiculous).

So, tell me, anyone much wiser than I in the field of economics, what will happen if the USA defaults? What will happen if it doesn't?
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

you are quite opinionated.


we gon get bombed
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

America is the worst super power this world has ever seen.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by reject View Post
America is the worst super power this world has ever seen.
Oh come on. Just going back a few decades, the USSR was much worse in terms of human rights and also just in their ability to provide for their citizens. But I guess this depends on what makes a power bad or good in your eyes.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by water bottle View Post
I haven't followed this issue too closely, as my doctor has advised me to avoid getting more than a cursory glance at American politics for the sake of my blood pressure,
Seriously?

Quote:
what will happen if the USA defaults? What will happen if it doesn't?
USA defaults = cascade effect to bring the southern EU economies into fail to the point that even the bailout wont save Greece. Which affects the northern EU economies (Ireland etc) which hits the Chinese, which so on and so on. Shocks will last a few months at least.

In a way you're fucked both ways. Raise the debt ceiling and put the US closer into economic destruction and slavery (unsustainable borrowing), or get the US to default which sucks too.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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But I guess this depends on what makes a power bad or good in your eyes.
At least they gave self-determination to their ethnic minorities unlike what the US can say its' done
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by Star Wars Fan View Post
Seriously?



USA defaults = cascade effect to bring the southern EU economies into fail to the point that even the bailout wont save Greece. Which affects the northern EU economies (Ireland etc) which hits the Chinese, which so on and so on. Shocks will last a few months at least.

In a way you're fucked both ways. Raise the debt ceiling and put the US closer into economic destruction and slavery (unsustainable borrowing), or get the US to default which sucks too.
lol, no, not seriously. That was just a dry turn of phrase. I think I was pretending to be British or something.

Anyway, you're certainly right about fucked both ways. There's no pleasant way out of it. Still, raising the debt ceiling seems the lesser of two evils.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

More like Pooper Power. As in the country, let alone many other countries, is going to take it up the pooper.

Economists are often wonky in their predictions but I've yet to see anyone who says this delay in passing a budget is a good or even a neutral thing. Most say that even getting this close without a budget is a Bad Thing right now.

It's not like this was 4 years ago with the economy roaring along. It's all still pretty fragile.

This is just another uncertainty that is causing companies to sit on their piles of cash and hesitate to make new investments and jobs.

Last edited by Sir Cornwell; 07-07-2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Oh come on. Just going back a few decades, the USSR was much worse in terms of human rights and also just in their ability to provide for their citizens. But I guess this depends on what makes a power bad or good in your eyes.
Because of America. And just because America doesn't kill a few of their own citizens (which they totally do under the guise of the war on drugs and shit) doesn't mean they are better on human rights. I think all the murdered and tortured Iraqis, Afghans etc would strongly disagree.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

America does not do body counts.

Not unless the bodies are of Good Upstanding Hardworking Americans. Other kinds of "people", who are not the "right sort", are beneath the counting.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Oh come on. Just going back a few decades, the USSR was much worse in terms of human rights and also just in their ability to provide for their citizens. But I guess this depends on what makes a power bad or good in your eyes.
Although I really hate to even slightly defend those who would try to defame America, he does have a point. The USA does not provide more for it's citizens than the USSR did. In fact, people in the USSR may have been slightly better off, I am ashamed to admit. The sad thing is that most Americans don't seem to realize that a true underclass exists right here at home. We very rarely see these people (aside from the homeless) because they are hidden from plain view. If you want to see what American poverty looks like just Google "Jacob Holdt photos". Some of the stuff you will see is disturbing.

The thing is, the USA could provide plenty for it's citizens if it didn't take that money and waste it on stupid stuff like college funding for poor people, jocks, women and minorities, scientific research, our ridiculously overcrowded prison system, worthless and incompetent law enforcement agencies and departments, etc.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by reject View Post
Because of America. And just because America doesn't kill a few of their own citizens (which they totally do under the guise of the war on drugs and shit) doesn't mean they are better on human rights. I think all the murdered and tortured Iraqis, Afghans etc would strongly disagree.
The tortured Afghans? You mean the ones the USSR tortured?
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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At least they gave self-determination to their ethnic minorities unlike what the US can say its' done
What the fuck are you talking about, nigger? Shut the fuck up and go play on that PS3 your mom's money bought you.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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America is the worst super power this world has ever seen.
And we'll kick your ass you fucking bitch.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by water bottle View Post
Economics isn't my primary field but boy-oh-boy does "USA defaulting on loans" sound scary as fuck. Imagine the USA going the way of Greece! I haven't followed this issue too closely, as my doctor has advised me to avoid getting more than a cursory glance at American politics for the sake of my blood pressure, but it seems the Republicans are playing their retarded populist game yet again. They seem to be at the point where Republicans have realized they can't just let America default, but the main debate seems to be where to take cuts from. Republicans want to protect the rich assholes who got the entire world into this mess in the first place whilst cutting social spending and the reverse for the Democrats. I try to stay away from partisanship but if I were an American I could find no reason whatsoever to support the Republicans anymore; they truly are the Alabama of the political world (no offense to Alabamians, but your state is just ridiculous).

So, tell me, anyone much wiser than I in the field of economics, what will happen if the USA defaults? What will happen if it doesn't?
If the USA fails so will the world. Of course America can never fail, but the rest of the world most certainly can.

Defaulting on the debt will not kill America. Sure, it will kill the federal government. But what good does the federal government do anymore? All they do is feel up elderly men who want to take a flight to go see their grand kids. Horseshit. I am a staunch True Republican and I am rooting for a default. Hopefully it will kill that "federal government class" and of course those shitty ass other countries that done fucked up. The Real America is as strong America and can never die. Initiative, self-reliance, commerce, the Constitution. It is this creed that I affirm.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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At least they gave self-determination to their ethnic minorities unlike what the US can say its' done
Tell that to the people of the Baltics!
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

I doubt it. Our armed forces actually have a little bit of competency, even if they are 1/100th of the size.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

If you idiots are thinking that one day you're going to wake up and there will be no more McDonald's, no more American programming on your television, no more American movies at your movie theater, no more American influence on your politics you are going to be let down. Slowly but surely you will realize that America is here to stay and you can never be a part of it. You can of course buy our products and with a smile on your face (or we'll knock your ass out)
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Yeah. American products: Made in China, unless they're weapons or entertainment products.

America: Strong and Free-ly Made in China.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

OH MY GAWD MADE IN CHINA

You want to see what Chinese laborers under American guidance can produce?

www.dealextreme.com

suck it bitch
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Yeah. American products: Made in China, unless they're weapons or entertainment products.

America: Strong and Free-ly Made in China.
think i'll bulldoze your block and build a wal-mart where it once stood when i get in on my first hedge fund
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

And how do unemployed Americans buy those MIC products when they're unemployed? With credit or government checks?

"It wasn't that these businesses had become obsolete or unprofitable; it was just that GE decided that it was more lucrative to move the jobs elsewhere or license the work for overseas manufacture. "

http://www.counterpunch.org/klein07062011.html
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

It currently costs more to employ people than to not employ them. This is because products are now much more efficiently produced than they were 40 years ago. Fun fact: the government is having to force employers at the barrel of a gun to employ people. The government is forcing taxpayers at the barrel of a gun to give it money to hire people to do jobs that aren't needed. If we could just get the government out of this mess we could probably just get the Chinese to produce products which the businessmen could give to the unemployed (who should be about 90% of the population) every Christmas for almost free. They'll have to ween them off life and sure, eventually most people are gonna have to die. Don't blame business, blame all that government funded scientific research that made the manufacturing process so much more efficient
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  #24  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Well: that will certainly bring a smile to Kissinger's kisser. Him and the rest of the Bilderberger/Bohemian Grove crowd.

After all, we're past Mr. K's due date for reducing the planet's population to a "sustainable 500,000,000".
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

500,000,000 isn't even sustainable. It might have been back in the 1970s but by now soil erosion and peak oil has progressed to the point to where the Earth's population should consist of no more than 100,000,000 people divided evenly across all continents except Africa which is uninhabitable anyway
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

The USSR was far worse at providing stuff than the USA is.

Except for some basic (low quality) goods, stores were pretty much empty. Simple things like bananas were a rare luxury.
My dad was hot stuff in university, because his relatives from America had sent him a pair of jeans.
Having connections with storeowners was important so that you could ask for favors like saving some treats for your kid's birthday, because a lot of non-essential foods were produced in such low quantities, that they were all bought immediately when they arrived at the store.

Money often wasn't even an issue, the lack of goods was the real problem.
When you can't travel abroad without some special visas (forget it), can't buy a car without special permission (often given only to members of the party), can't buy sweets or treats because the central planning messed up the production and can't buy clothes or shoes made by western companies, then you find that you have plenty of money, but nothing to spend it on.

And the USSR wasn't kind to different ethnic groups as peoples were mixed together on purpose to create tensions. Divide and conquer.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Raise it to infinity...There has always been a so called national debt and nothing has happened. It might get up to 50 quadrillion dollars, but who gives a shit?
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Back on topic:

The USA currently has to print more money to make it possible to pay off the foreign debt. The more money the US prints, the more purchasing power it has at the expense of China, Japan, UK, Taiwan, Russia and everyone else it owes Dollars to.
Therefore it makes sense to raise the debt ceiling and I don't see why the US government would want to default.
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Old 07-07-2011, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Good old Soviet People's Pirate Party.

You know somebody's talking BS when they speak of "The People". What that means is that they get the cash and the cream and the "People" get it up the poophole.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

The debt ceiling was never not going to be raised, all of this is political theater to maintain the illusion that there is any real difference or choice between the two parties. They are both owned by the same corporate masters and are both responsible for the policies being enacted.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

Have you guys talked to these politicians, have you discussed it face to face
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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If the USA fails so will the world.
No. If we fail, we eat shit and die all by ourselves. You really think other countries are going to give a shit about us when we are weak? Fuck no. Pretty much every country has hated us since like 1776, they just never had the balls to declare war. Once we finally can't pay them back and tell them that, all bets are off.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

We are the heart of the global economy, if the economy goes in to cardiac arrest it dies
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

I am surprised this hasnt been said yet :

Q : So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

A : Will then debt will go thru the roof, dumbass.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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At least they gave self-determination to their ethnic minorities unlike what the US can say its' done
Uh, what? Ever met any former Soviet Jews? Or Ukranians? I think they'd prefer the US any day.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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At least they gave self-determination to their ethnic minorities unlike what the US can say its' done
Boy my Ukrainian parents would like to get ahold of you. They look no differnet from Russians, but because they were born there, the govt. treated them as second, third class.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by Star Wars Fan View Post
At least they gave self-determination to their ethnic minorities unlike what the US can say its' done
You are black. You are also living in a first world nation and using the internet on your personal computer.

You're welcome.

Also you are factually incorrect in your assertion that the USSR gave "self-determination" to it's ethnic minorities. Google the Holodomor.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

This:

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Old 07-07-2011, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

To address the OP, probably something similar to the crisis of of 2007. It's not something I've looked into since its something I don't think will happen (even the republicans aren't THAT stupid)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Cornwell View Post
Yeah. American products: Made in China, unless they're weapons or entertainment products.

America: Strong and Free-ly Made in China.
The U.S. has the largest manufacturing base in the world and by a fairly wide margin too...
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: So what's going to happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised?

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Originally Posted by Jim "fuck latinos" Carrey View Post
It currently costs more to employ people than to not employ them. This is because products are now much more efficiently produced than they were 40 years ago. Fun fact: the government is having to force employers at the barrel of a gun to employ people. The government is forcing taxpayers at the barrel of a gun to give it money to hire people to do jobs that aren't needed. If we could just get the government out of this mess we could probably just get the Chinese to produce products which the businessmen could give to the unemployed (who should be about 90% of the population) every Christmas for almost free. They'll have to ween them off life and sure, eventually most people are gonna have to die. Don't blame business, blame all that government funded scientific research that made the manufacturing process so much more efficient
*sigh*

you're implying that the downturn in unemployment is structural in nature, when it is clearly cyclical. The reason firms aren't hiring is because of insufficient consumer demand, not because there is all of a sudden some mis-match between the skills of the population and their employers
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