Archived: Revived: How To Obtain A Prescription of Your Choice.

[panthrax]

Over the past several months I have seen a number of threads where people were unsure what to say to their doctors in order to obtain a specific prescription they were looking for.

It brought to mind robbinthehood's old thread of the same title back on the &T boards. I thought I would cover his original points as well as improve upon/add others. Let's get started.

Part I: Anti-Anxiety (Benzodiazepines)

If you're having feelings of panic, claustrophobia, uncalled for paranoia, trouble breathing, hot flashes, etc. when you're in a group of people or even when home alone, you may be experiencing symptoms relating to General Anxiety Disorder or Social Anxiety Disorder.

First, let's learn what they are.

Social Anxiety Disorder:

Social anxiety disorder (SAD or SAnD), also known as social phobia, is an anxiety disorder characterized by intense fear in social situations[1] causing considerable distress and impaired ability to function in at least some parts of daily life.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anxiety_disorder

General Anxiety Disorder:

Generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is an anxiety disorder that is characterized by excessive, uncontrollable and often irrational worry about everyday things that is disproportionate to the actual source of worry. This excessive worry often interferes with daily functioning, as individuals suffering GAD typically anticipate disaster, and are overly concerned about everyday matters such as health issues, money, death, family problems, friend problems, relationship problems or work difficulties.[1] Individuals often exhibit a variety of physical symptoms, including fatigue, fidgeting, headaches, nausea, numbness in hands and feet, muscle tension, muscle aches, difficulty swallowing, bouts of difficulty breathing, difficulty concentrating, trembling, twitching, irritability, agitation, sweating, restlessness, insomnia, hot flashes, and rashes and inability to fully control the anxiety (ICD-10).[2] These symptoms must be consistent and on-going, persisting at least six months, for a formal diagnosis of GAD to be introduced.[1] Approximately 6.8 million American adults experience GAD,[3] and 2 percent of adult Europeans, in any given year, experience GAD.[4]

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_anxiety_disorder

Now that we understand what SAD and GAD are, let's look at (benzodiazepine) treatment options. Below are the most commonly prescribed drugs for GAD or SAD.

• Xanax

Xanax (generic name is alprazolam) is among the most popular brands of benzodiazepines. It is most often used to treat anxiety or panic attacks. It can also be used to treat individuals who are depressed because of their anxiety. There are two types of Xanax: regular Xanax and Xanax XR. Xanax XR lasts longer in the body. An individual may take between 0.25mg to 4mg per day, depending on what the doctor deems appropriate.

• Valium

Valium (generic name is diazepam) is used to treat anxiety disorders or for the short-term relief of anxiety. It can be used to treat muscle spasms or symptoms of alcohol withdrawal, such as agitation and tremors. It may also be used to treat certain types of seizure disorders. The dosage of Valium depends on what the doctor is treating, as well as the patient's individualized symptoms. Broadly speaking, the dosage of Valium can be between 1mg to 40mg daily.

• Klonopin

Klonopin (generic name is clonazepam) is a medication to treat anxiety, certain types of epilepsy, seizures and panic attacks, according to Drugs.com. Klonopin is a long-lasting benzodiazepine. The doses are 0.25mg, 0.5mg, 1mg, or 2mg. For individuals with seizures, the dose should not exceed 1.5mg per day divided into three doses, according to rxlist.com. In patients with panic attacks, the dosage should be 0.25mg as needed throughout the day.

• Ativan

Ativan (generic name is lorazepam) is used to treat individuals with anxiety or anxiety with depressive symptoms. The dosages are 0.5mg, 1mg or 2.mg, according to rxlist.com. Although everyone's tolerance differs, the usual range is 2mg to 6mg a day. These are taken throughout the day, and the largest dose is usually before bedtime to help with insomnia related to anxiety.

Non-Recreational Treatment Options:

• Anti-convulsants (Neurontin)
• Azaspirones (BuSpar)
• Beta Blockers (Inderal, Tenormin)
• MAOI’s (Nardil, Parnate) *NOTE* Avoid MAOI’s if you use illegal drugs recreationally. They can have lots of bad effects.
• SSRI’s (Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac)
• Tricyclic Antidepressants (Aventyl, Elavil)

How To Obtain Benzodiazepines:

A general rule of thumb for obtaining any medication you specifically want is to go into the visit as humble as you can be. That is, do not go into your doctor visit with ear/lip/eyebrow piercings. Don't wear your Dead Kennedys shirt with baggy jeans and DC shoes.

Wear a nice polo shirt with some fitting jeans and some sneakers. Look conservative, but not fake. You may have to work with what's best for you.

In regard to benzodiazepines, once your doctor asks why you're there, you may want to start the conversation like:

"I'm not sure really. I'm just...really worried. About everything. All the time. I...I don't know what else to do."

It's short and to the point. Your doctor will ask you a series of questions in regard to how you feel during the day, if anything specifically triggers those feelings, what helps it to go away, how often it occurs, etc.

If at all possible, when describing the intensity/frequency of the "attacks", try to muster up a nervous tear. It'll show your doctor that it's affecting you greatly.

Some key points to bring up during the conversation:

"I can't even maintain a relationship. I've tried dating, but I always ruin them because I keep thinking that she really doesn't like me, or she actually thinks I'm ugly. I'm certain she's about to break up with me and all that stress weighs on our relationship and we always break up."

"I cannot sleep at night. I lie there, staring at the ceiling wondering how will I ever pay the bills or if I have something wrong with me internally. My thoughts jump from one to another, and it's always something worrisome. "

"I just feel so nervous or something. I go into Walmart and a sense of panic comes over me. I can feel my face turn red and I almost feel like I've done something embarrassing or wrong. I don't like to go out much."

Never expect to get a benzo the very first time around. It almost never happens that way. That isn't to say that it doesn't happen. Because it does. You may get lucky. More often than not though, you'll have to go through a series of antidepressants before you ever reach your first benzo.

Some tips to get off the anti-depressants and move toward benzodiazepines:

"<insert anti-depressant here> makes me feel strange. I feel sort of weird, like, I'm not me. I don't like how I feel when I take it."

Also research that particular drug's side-effects and use one or two of them to complain to your doctor.

Part II: ADHD/ADD Medications

If you're having trouble concentrations on matters at hand, feel overly energetic, or show trouble of following directions, you may be experience symptoms related to ADHD/ADD.

Let's learn what they are.

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD):

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD or AD/HD or ADD) is a developmental disorder.[1] It is primarily characterized by "the co-existence of attentional problems and hyperactivity, with each behavior occurring infrequently alone" and symptoms starting before seven years of age.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD

Attention Deficit Disorder:

Individuals with ADHD have deficiencies with self-regulation and self-motivation, that cause problems with distractibility, procrastination, organization, and prioritization. The learning potential and overall intelligence of an adult with ADHD, however, are no different from the potential and intelligence of adults who do not have the disorder. ADHD is a chronic condition, beginning in early childhood and persisting throughout a person's lifetime. It is estimated that up to 60% of children with ADHD will continue to have significant ADHD-related symptoms persisting into adulthood, resulting in a significant impact on education, employment, and interpersonal relationships.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_a...ivity_disorder

Now, let's look at treatment options.

• Psychostimulants

Psychostimulants are the most common type of medication for ADHD. Dexedrine, Desoxyn, Adderall, Ritalin, Metadate CD, Focalin, Concerta, and Cylert, are some of the more common commercial names for medications that fall under this category. According to the Clinical Handbook of Psychotropic Drugs, all psychostimulants have been found to be equally effective and take approximately one week to go into effect. Although the most common indication for these medications is ADHD, they can also be used to treat Parkinson's disease, narcolepsy and obesity.

• Selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor

Similar to psychostimulants, Strattera is an ADHD medication that increases dopamine and norepinephrine in the frontal cortex. However, Strattera does not increase dopamine in other areas of the brain. Because dopamine is not increased in areas outside the frontal cortex, Strattera is less likely to be abused and is not considered a controlled substance. Although this medication can take up to four weeks to go into effect, it is a good option for individuals who have difficulty with substance abuse, eating disorders, or are otherwise at risk if provided with the more traditional psychostimulant ADHD medication.

• Antidepressants (Off Label)

According to the Clinical Handbook of Psychotropic Drugs, some medications approved for the treatment of depression also have been shown to be effective for ADHD symptoms, although the use of these medications for ADHD remains "off-label" at this point in time. In particular, Wellbutrin has been used to control ADHD symptoms in both children and adults. In addition, Effexor and Manerix, also used to treat depression, have shown to be effective at increasing attention and concentration in preliminary studies.

What we're looking for is psychostimulants, so let's get into those.

• Amphetamine/Dextroamphetamine Medications

Amphetamine/Dextroamphetamine (prescribed in combination form or dextroamphetamine alone) are also central nervous system stimulants used to treat ADHD. They affect the neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain. Examples of this type of medication are Adderall, Dexedrine and Dextrostat (three more of the top 10 medications).

• Lisdexamfetamine

Vyvanse or lisdexamfetamine is another type of ADHD medication. It is in the psychostimulant class as well. It is different from the others in that it is chemically structured so that the stimulant components are released into the body at a slower rate than the other forms of psychostimulants.

• Methylphenidate

Methylphenidate is used as part of a treatment program to control symptoms of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD; more difficulty focusing, controlling actions, and remaining still or quiet than other people who are the same age) in adults and children. Methylphenidate (Ritalin, Ritalin SR, Methylin, Methylin ER) is also used to treat narcolepsy (a sleep disorder that causes excessive daytime sleepiness and sudden attacks of sleep). Methylphenidate is in a class of medications called central nervous system (CNS) stimulants. It works by changing the amounts of certain natural substances in the brain.

These will be the drugs you will want to go after.

This class of medications can prove to be harder because a general M.D. may want to refer you to a psychiatrist in order to diagnose and treat your "ADHD/ADD".

In this such event, the psychiatrist may as you to fill out a bubble sheet and your teacher (if you're a student) fill out one as well, or a computer test used to determine your level of concentration. Some of them can be difficult to fake.

Some things to tell your doctor:

"My teacher/boss says I don't follow directions very well at all. They say I can't seem to sit still, and honestly, I've noticed it myself but I thought I was just a little hyper. It's starting to worry me though, because my grades/work performance is being affected by it."

You'll more than likely start out on Methylphenidate (Ritalin). That's alright. You always have to work your way up the ladder in order to achieve what you're ultimately after.

When you return to your next visit, tell the doctor there is no effect. Tell him you can't tell you're even taking it. He'll either increase the dosage or switch to a (hopefully) more desired medication.

Part III: Pain Relief

Almost everyone hurts somewhere. Whether it be their back, shoulders, neck, or elsewhere. Your pain may be greater than what OTC pain relievers can handle. You may have a condition known as chronic pain.

It should be noted that this section may be the easiest or hardest, depending on the situation. You're not going to get morphine or oxycodone due to a headache. You're not going to get either one of those because you sprained your ankle once in gym class back in 93' either. So with that being said...

Let's see what chronic pain is.

• Chronic Pain:

Chronic pain has several different meanings in medicine. Traditionally, the distinction between acute and chronic pain has relied upon an arbitrary interval of time from onset; the two most commonly used markers being 3 months and 6 months since the initiation of pain, though some theorists and researchers have placed the transition from acute to chronic pain at 12 months. Others apply acute to pain that lasts less than 30 days, chronic to pain of more than six months duration, and subacute to pain that lasts from one to six months. A popular alternative definition of chronic pain, involving no arbitrarily fixed durations is "pain that extends beyond the expected period of healing."

Let's see how it's treated with the most common (narcotic) medications

• Tramadol

Tramadol hydrochloride (Ultram, Tramal) is a centrally acting opioid analgesic, used in treating moderate to severe pain. The drug has a wide range of applications, including treatment for restless legs syndrome and fibromyalgia. It was developed by the pharmaceutical company Grünenthal GmbH in the late 1970s.

Tramadol possesses weak agonist actions at the μ-opioid receptor, releases serotonin, and inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine.

Tramadol is a synthetic analog of the phenanthrene alkaloid codeine and, as such, is an opioid and also a prodrug (codeine is metabolized to morphine, tramadol is converted to O-desmethyltramadol). Opioids are chemical compounds which act upon one or more of the human opiate receptors. The euphoria and respiratory depression are mainly caused by the μ1 and μ2 receptors; the addictive nature of the drug is due to these effects as well as its serotonergic/noradrenergic effects[citation needed] . The opioid agonistic effect of tramadol and its major metabolite(s) are almost exclusively mediated by the substance's action at the μ-opioid receptor. This characteristic distinguishes tramadol from many other substances (including morphine) of the opioid drug class, which generally do not possess tramadol's degree of subtype selectivity.


For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

• Codeine:

Codeine or 3-methylmorphine (a natural isomer of methylated morphine, the other being the semi-synthetic 6-methylmorphine) is an opiate used for its analgesic, antitussive, and antidiarrheal properties. Codeine is the second-most predominant alkaloid in opium, at up to 3 percent; it is much more prevalent in the Iranian poppy (Papaver bractreatum), and codeine is extracted from this species in some places although the below-mentioned morphine methylation process is still much more common. It is considered the prototype of the weak to midrange opioids.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codeine

• Morphine:

Morphine is the most abundant alkaloid found in opium, the dried sap (latex) derived from shallowly slicing the unripe seedpods of the opium, or common and/or edible, poppy, Papaver somniferum. Morphine was the first active principle purified from a plant source and is one of at least 50 alkaloids of several different types present in opium, Poppy Straw Concentrate, and other poppy derivatives.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine

• Oxycodone:

Oxycodone (OxyContin and other brand names) is an opioid analgesic medication synthesized from opium-derived thebaine. It was developed in 1916 in Germany, as one of several new semi-synthetic opioids in an attempt to improve on the existing opioids: morphine, diacetylmorphine (heroin), and codeine.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxycodone

• Methadone:

Methadone (also known as Symoron, Dolophine, Amidone, Methadose, Physeptone, Heptadon, Phy and many other names) is a synthetic opioid, used medically as an analgesic and a maintenance anti-addictive for use in patients with opioid dependency. It was developed in Germany in 1937. Although chemically unlike morphine or heroin, methadone acts on the same opioid receptors as these drugs, and thus has many of the same effects. Methadone is also used in managing severe chronic pain, owing to its long duration of action, extremely powerful effects, and very low cost. Methadone was introduced into the United States in 1947 by Eli Lilly and Company.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methadone

• Hydromorphone:

Hydromorphone, a more common synonym for dihydromorphinone, commonly a hydrochloride (trade names Palladone, Dilaudid, and numerous others) is a very potent centrally-acting analgesic drug of the opioid class. It is a derivative of morphine, to be specific, a hydrogenated ketone thereof and, therefore, a semi-synthetic drug. It is, in medical terms, an opioid analgesic and, in legal terms, a narcotic.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydromorphone

• Oxymorphone:

Oxymorphone (Opana, Numorphan, Numorphone) or 14-Hydroxydihydromorphinone is a powerful semi-synthetic opioid analgesic first developed in Germany circa 1914, patented in the USA by Endo Pharmaceuticals in 1955[3] and introduced to the United States market in January 1959 and other countries around the same time. It (along with hydromorphone) was designed to have less incidence of side effects than morphine and heroin. It was a success as it differs from morphine and heroin in its effects in that it generates less euphoria, sedation, itching and other histamine effects at equianalgesic doses. This also means a lower dependence liability.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymorphone

• Fentanyl:

Fentanyl (also known as fentanil, brand names Sublimaze, Actiq, Durogesic, Duragesic, Fentora, Onsolis, Instanyl, Abstral, and others) is a potent synthetic narcotic analgesic with a rapid onset and short duration of action. It is a strong agonist at the μ-opioid receptors. Historically it has been used to treat chronic breakthrough pain and is commonly used in pre-procedures as a pain reliever as well as an anesthetic in combination with a benzodiazepine.

For more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl

This area of this guide is subjective and situational. I tried to order them from weakest to strongest. Obviously, the higher up you're aiming for, the more serious of a case you'll need to present to your doctor.

Methadone, Hydromorphone, Oxymorphone, and Fentanyl will be the hardest for you to get unless you have a disease such as Rheumatoid Arthritis, Multiple Sclerosis, Cancer, or some other high-pain causing illness.

(NOTE: Methadone can be obtained from a Methadone clinic, however, one must test positive for opiates to start Methadone treatment and after 60 days of constant treatment, take-home doses are usually allowed for up to a month's worth of medication)

Similarly, you could temporarily get these medications for a serious accident or injury.

In rare cases, these medications are prescribed for persistent pain that does not respond well to the other narcotic medications.

Typical lower back/neck/body pain can be treated with everything from Tramadol to Oxycodone, depending on the severity of your pain.

Some things to tell the doctor:

"In the mornings, I can't even get out of bed. I have to have my girlfriend help me up out of bed. I can't live like this. I've been missing work/school."

"The pain is terrible. Oftentimes, I'll get a sudden stabbing back in my back that makes me go to my knees."

"I don't know what to do. I've been taking almost three times the recommended amount of naproxen sodium to get rid of this pain. I know that's bad, but I have to go to work! It's the only way I can get out of bed!"

"I lay awake at night due to the pain. Here lately, it's been causing me to cry sometimes. I don't cry very easily, but this pain in my _________ just hurts so bad...."

Become familiar with types of pain (shooting, stabbing, dull, aching, etc.)

Also become familiar with the pain scale. You'll be asked this almost every visit:



When your doctor asks what is your level of pain, don't be a jackass and say 10. 10 is where your leg just snapped in two and the bone is sticking out of your leg. A good rule of thumb is you stay at a constant 4 or 5, but in the mornings and evenings, you're easily a 7 or 8.

Do not get discouraged if it takes you years to get where you want to be at. I started out on Ultram and after 4 years, I got to my target of Dilaudid. Just keep at it. You will eventually get what you're looking for.

The following guide was intended to aid those looking for a specific medication. This guide is not definitive and can be tweaked and altered according to specific needs/wants.

[Tachosomoza]

I woulda really appreciated this in BI. Christ knows we have a lack of good shit down there. Oh well, it's your thread...

Wherever you put it, it's awesome.

[Fly Guy ARB]

This is some gangsta shit. Thanks brah.

[Hydroponichronic]

Nice compilation.

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

I woulda really appreciated this in BI. Christ knows we have a lack of good shit down there. Oh well, it's your thread...

Wherever you put it, it's awesome.

Actually, you might get it. The mods here aren't a fan of medical fraud, though frankly I don't see why.

[Gun Lover]

I only had to read a few sentences to know this was going to be a superb thread. Great work, Panthrax

[Isoterrapine]

I have a spinal defect and was recently prescribed 100 30/500mg codeine. and I was wondering how long I should say I am taking them for until I ask for something else. I am in the UK if that makes a difference.

(kinda fucked at the moment sorry if this don't make sense)

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by isoterrapine

I have a spinal defect and was recently prescribed 100 30/500mg codeine. and I was wondering how long I should say I am taking them for until I ask for something else. I am in the UK if that makes a difference.

(kinda fucked at the moment sorry if this don't make sense)

Give it one month. Next time you go in for your visit, your doctor will ask you how the medication seems to be working for you.

Explain to him that the medication seems to have little to no effect. Tell your doctor that it seems to do the same thing that over-the-counter acetaminophen would do.

"My back still hurts. I can't really tell the difference from taking some Tylenol I could buy in the stores. It just doesn't seem to be working."

Above is an example of what you could say to your doctor.

[zombo.com]

awesome panthrax, and thanks.
we did have an asshole awhile back who got pissy about these, but aces and eights has been gone for a long time, good reference material as far as i'm concerned, archiving.

[Hydroponichronic]

Originally Posted by zombo.com

awesome panthrax, and thanks.
we did have an asshole awhile back who got pissy about these, but aces and eights has been gone for a long time, good reference material as far as i'm concerned, archiving.

Oh, c'mon, was aces really that bad?

[Not for Human Consumption]

For anxiety they'll always start you off with SSRIs. To get past this just look at the "potential side effects" sheet that comes with the pills, pick one and go with it. Wait a few days to a week before going back and complain about the side effects. If they try and prescribe another SSRI do the same. Sooner or later you'll get prescribed a benzo, probably Ativan or Klonopin which IMO are fucking shitty for both recreation and helping anxiety.

Never ASK for a specfic medication, just keep saying you get XX side effect or XX medication doesn't help. It'll take some time but it'll be worth it, until you do something stupid in a benzo induced haze and fuck your life up like I have recently done. But you'll probably have fun doing it, the parts you remember that is.

[panthrax]

^ Right. Never specifically name a medication you want. Just "go with the flow" until it lands you where you're trying to get to.

[AdMech]

Thanks a fucking million for this thread, man. You're the best.

A few very important (to me) questions:

1.) Is it possible (likely) for a young male to get pain meds for back pain? That is, is it realistically possible - I know it happens sometimes, for some people, but is it astonishingly rare, or will one eventually get at least hydrocodone if one keeps at it?

2.) Can you tell me/us more about the types of pain you should claim, and what you go through at the office? As in:

• Causes - should we say "I tried to pick up something heavy", or perhaps "whiplash in a car accident", or "it just hurts I don't know why", or...? What about scoliosis, perhaps?
• Tests - are there types of pain one can claim that will not show up on any sort of test? A bone problem, for instance, will probably quickly be seen to be fake, but perhaps muscular back pain can only be diagnosed by patient report?
• Stuff to Google - you say "become familiar with types of pain", so it'd be extremely helpful to know about what back, neck, or other conditions that fulfill Criteria #2 (don't show up on tests), to look up.

If you can help me out with this, man, I will be eternally fucking grateful, and will gladly perform a service for you in return - whatever I can that is within my budget/ability. I've had chronic pain for years, but in a way that guarantees no doctor will ever believe me (until I'm an old man)... so faking some other kind of condition is my only hope. It's killing my wallet and quality of life as it is, and I don't know what to do. Except move to Laos, I suppose...

[The Greek]

I'm not sure I agree with telling everyone how to script scam. I mean, its a pretty simple concept, anyone who can't figure it out (or google it), doesn't really deserve a script in the first place. Furthermore stupid people should not get involved with benzos for a wide variety of extremely obvious reasons.

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by panthrax

^ Right. Never specifically name a medication you want. Just "go with the flow" until it lands you where you're trying to get to.

On that note, it helps to pretend to be fucking retarded. When I've done this before I felt like correcting some of the things the doc was telling me. Best not to do that, or let on that you know anything about the medication you are seeking.

If you don't get what you want, google a list of side effects, and complain about some of them (not all of them, just some). Rinse and repeat until you have exactly what you want.

[zombo.com]

Originally Posted by The Greek

I'm not sure I agree with telling everyone how to script scam. I mean, its a pretty simple concept, anyone who can't figure it out (or google it), doesn't really deserve a script in the first place. Furthermore stupid people should not get involved with benzos for a wide variety of extremely obvious reasons.

i jsut got into it with another mod this week for a similar attitude...the point of a forum is to spread information, not to be gatekeepers, or decide who "deserves" to know things, or to keep secrets.

the point of this forum is to help people become better drug addicts...or something like that. either way, if i know the answer to someones question, i'm going to help them out if i can, not condescend at them for not already knowing, or (within reason) pass judgement on them for asking.

not really bitching about it, just my reasoning.

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by zombo.com

the point of this forum is to help people become better drug addicts...or something like that. .

You make a good argument, but it would have been better suited for totse. You know, where information and freedom of speech were important... Its not so important on zoklet. Here the main rule is to avoid legal trouble for zok.

On a similar note, I remember back on the totse chemistry forums, no one would discuss, or rather outline, an idiots guide to making meth. At least not any of the mods or educated posters. Seems a bit hypocritical considering they all cooked meth at one point. The reason for that rule was to stop idiots from getting involved in their affairs. If anyone is committed to learning the chemistry they could outline their own cook and have a senior member check is for errors, but no guide was openly handed out. In that sense, it made for a much better chemistry community. It made sure their members were smart and committed to learning.

I'm not saying the scripting guide shouldn't be posted, but it certainly isn't the best idea.

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by AdMech

Thanks a fucking million for this thread, man. You're the best.

A few very important (to me) questions:

1.) Is it possible (likely) for a young male to get pain meds for back pain? That is, is it realistically possible - I know it happens sometimes, for some people, but is it astonishingly rare, or will one eventually get at least hydrocodone if one keeps at it?

2.) Can you tell me/us more about the types of pain you should claim, and what you go through at the office? As in:

• Causes - should we say "I tried to pick up something heavy", or perhaps "whiplash in a car accident", or "it just hurts I don't know why", or...? What about scoliosis, perhaps?
• Tests - are there types of pain one can claim that will not show up on any sort of test? A bone problem, for instance, will probably quickly be seen to be fake, but perhaps muscular back pain can only be diagnosed by patient report?
• Stuff to Google - you say "become familiar with types of pain", so it'd be extremely helpful to know about what back, neck, or other conditions that fulfill Criteria #2 (don't show up on tests), to look up.

If you can help me out with this, man, I will be eternally fucking grateful, and will gladly perform a service for you in return - whatever I can that is within my budget/ability. I've had chronic pain for years, but in a way that guarantees no doctor will ever believe me (until I'm an old man)... so faking some other kind of condition is my only hope. It's killing my wallet and quality of life as it is, and I don't know what to do. Except move to Laos, I suppose...

In response to question #1:

Yes. It is entirely possible. I'm 24 years old. Until three years ago when I was incarcerated, from the time I was 15 up to 21, I was prescribed narcotic pain medication.

It ranged from as simple as Tramadol to as high as Hydromorphone. Of course, I have Rheumatoid Arthritis. Even so, I didn't necessarily always tell the doctors the honest truth about how badly it hurt. Unfortunately, I found it necessary to stretch the truth a little in order to obtain the medications I needed to sustain a certain quality of life that was suitable for any human being.

I can guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you keep at it, you will certainly obtain an adequate prescription.

In response to question #2:

If you do not have an illness. Claim an injury. If you ever went to an emergency room or doctor, ever, for an injury, use that as your source of pain. It's been documented already and will be easier for you to claim.

If you've never sought professional help for the matter, explain that you used to work in construction. Tell him you were on a scaffold, when a 5 gallon bucket of mortar fell on your back. I work in construction now, and this is entirely plausible.

Explain that it caused you injury, but you could not afford to see a doctor at the time, but ever since, it's done nothing but cause you pain.

Tell your doctor that you more or less didn't care what it cost, you had to have something done about it.

Your doctor may order an X-Ray or at the most extreme, an MRI. These will do nothing in the long run but show no broken bones or muscle tears. Your doctor will attribute the pain to a nerve issue.

Be prepared to go through weak pain relievers or even things like Neurontin.
As long as you continue to tell the doctor it is not working, you are forcing him/her to try opiate/opioid therapy.

Hope this helps. I'll take your assistance in return for a rain check.

[panthrax]

Also AdMech, you mentioned, "in a way that no doctor would believe me". I'm curious about that. Care to elaborate?

[zombo.com]

Originally Posted by The Greek

You make a good argument, but it would have been better suited for totse. You know, where information and freedom of speech were important... Its not so important on zoklet. Here the main rule is to avoid legal trouble for zok.

On a similar note, I remember back on the totse chemistry forums, no one would discuss, or rather outline, an idiots guide to making meth. At least not any of the mods or educated posters. Seems a bit hypocritical considering they all cooked meth at one point. The reason for that rule was to stop idiots from getting involved in their affairs. If anyone is committed to learning the chemistry they could outline their own cook and have a senior member check is for errors, but no guide was openly handed out. In that sense, it made for a much better chemistry community. It made sure their members were smart and committed to learning.

I'm not saying the scripting guide shouldn't be posted, but it certainly isn't the best idea.

information IS important. and not putting up with bullshit doesn't equal killing freedom of speech.
Just dumb speech, where it's not appreciated.

bat country-
bltc-
it's a subtle difference i know, but an important one.

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by The Greek

You make a good argument, but it would have been better suited for totse. You know, where information and freedom of speech were important... Its not so important on zoklet. Here the main rule is to avoid legal trouble for zok.

On a similar note, I remember back on the totse chemistry forums, no one would discuss, or rather outline, an idiots guide to making meth. At least not any of the mods or educated posters. Seems a bit hypocritical considering they all cooked meth at one point. The reason for that rule was to stop idiots from getting involved in their affairs. If anyone is committed to learning the chemistry they could outline their own cook and have a senior member check is for errors, but no guide was openly handed out. In that sense, it made for a much better chemistry community. It made sure their members were smart and committed to learning.

I'm not saying the scripting guide shouldn't be posted, but it certainly isn't the best idea.

Simply because Zoklet isn't ran around quotations of freedom, doesn't mean it isn't necessarily so.

I don't believe in a drug user hierarchy. If someone wants some information, who am I to shield him or her from it? Since I am so high and mighty on my high horse, who am I to refer the person to Google?

I understand that researching/learning on your own is the best way to learn, but everyone needs a teacher. The greatest teachers today had a teacher themselves.

To use your reference, making methamphetamine is not like some Knight's Templar secret. It's widely available. I don't see why the old users tried to keep it such a big secret.

I'm all about open information and until I get an direct order from an Administrator or Moderator of this website, I will continue to provide.

[zombo.com]

deep emotional scarring from the Hive being raped.

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by panthrax

I don't believe in a drug user hierarchy. If someone wants some information, who am I to shield him or her from it? Since I am so high and mighty on my high horse, who am I to refer the person to Google?

I understand that researching/learning on your own is the best way to learn, but everyone needs a teacher. The greatest teachers today had a teacher themselves.

Fair enough. I would be a total hypocrite to say you shouldn't post this info, especially when asked, but I dunno. I saw this in the hot topics. Looks more like advertising then teaching to me.

In theory there is nothing wrong with this thread, but I am still unsettled knowing many idiots will be scamming their local doctors and using dangerous drugs irresponsibly due to this thread.

Every time you post this guide you should follow it up with the list of benzo withdrawal symptoms. The problem I see here is a lack of information, not the information you posted in itself. If someone wants to find this shit out on their own they will need to learn about the drugs and the risks of doing them. They will do research and discover horror stories about the drugs and maybe learn to use them responsibly.

Just giving someone a script though... It can leads to all sorts of trouble.

[skygear]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

I woulda really appreciated this in BI. Christ knows we have a lack of good shit down there. Oh well, it's your thread...

Wherever you put it, it's awesome.

WOW....

@ panthrax - nice work

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by The Greek

Fair enough. I would be a total hypocrite to say you shouldn't post this info, especially when asked, but I dunno. I saw this in the hot topics. Looks more like advertising then teaching to me.

In theory there is nothing wrong with this thread, but I am still unsettled knowing many idiots will be scamming their local doctors and using dangerous drugs irresponsibly due to this thread.

Every time you post this guide you should follow it up with the list of benzo withdrawal symptoms. The problem I see here is a lack of information, not the information you posted in itself. If someone wants to find this shit out on their own they will need to learn about the drugs and the risks of doing them. They will do research and discover horror stories about the drugs and maybe learn to use them responsibly.

Just giving someone a script though... It can leads to all sorts of trouble.

That's why I posted "more info" links, which provides withdrawal information. It's their responsibility to read and understand that information.

[AdMech]

Originally Posted by panthrax

I can guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you keep at it, you will certainly obtain an adequate prescription.

Yesss. Fucking awesome; thanks.

If you do not have an illness. Claim an injury. If you ever went to an emergency room or doctor, ever, for an injury, use that as your source of pain. It's been documented already and will be easier for you to claim.

Well, I went to the ER for a seizure, once... think I could claim I fell off a chair onto my back, or something along those lines? (I did, but it didn't actually hurt my back more than a day or two.)

Edit: Also, is there any particular area of the back you would recommend complaining about?

Be prepared to go through weak pain relievers or even things like Neurontin.
As long as you continue to tell the doctor it is not working, you are forcing him/her to try opiate/opioid therapy.

Hope this helps. I'll take your assistance in return for a rain check.

Again, thanks. Chemistry and writing are my only two real talents, but I can Paypal you a small amount (sorry - I'm poor ) or somethin' too.

PM on the way re: your question.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by skygear

@ panthrax - nice work

Panthrax didn't write that. A wonderfully immature teenager wrote that back in 2005-ish and I believe his current opinion of the article is that it is little more than an immature pile of shit. I think he's probably of the opinion that it's selfish and stupid to waste doctor's time and also that it is insulting to treat a doctor like a common drug dealer. I'd imagine that's the way he thinks now, anyway.

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Panthrax didn't write that. A wonderfully immature teenager wrote that back in 2005-ish and I believe his current opinion of the article is that it is little more than an immature pile of shit. I think he's probably of the opinion that it's selfish and stupid to waste doctor's time and also that it is insulting to treat a doctor like a common drug dealer. I'd imagine that's the way he thinks now, anyway.

Goddamn dude, hate much?

Also, I entirely wrote this guide. The original can be found here

[AdMech]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Panthrax didn't write that. A wonderfully immature teenager wrote that back in 2005-ish and I believe his current opinion of the article is that it is little more than an immature pile of shit. I think he's probably of the opinion that it's selfish and stupid to waste doctor's time and also that it is insulting to treat a doctor like a common drug dealer. I'd imagine that's the way he thinks now, anyway.

You're one of my favorite members on here, water bottle - one of the few whose username I actually remember and think "hey, here's a good member" when I see it.

That said, what the hell is all this? You seem to be of the opinion that doctors are gods who never make mistakes, that the healthcare system is perfect and if one only tells the truth, they will surely get the care they need. No, it doesn't work like that; surely you have heard of one of the thousands of tales wherein an individual's problem is ignored, belittled, or misdiagnosed. It seems like sometimes, "scamming" what you know you need is the only option available.

Only the individual can say, in the end, whether Substance X is worth it to them, after all. The doctor can educate them about the risks and rewards of the substance; the doctor can diagnose their problem and make suggestions; but in the end, it's up to the individual to say "hey, the action and side effects are/are not worth it." And unfortunately, in reality, the individual's power of decision is limited only to saying "no, I don't want this medicine" - never to saying "yes, I think I should have this medicine".

[panthrax]

Another thing I feel the need to mention.

I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis, Scoliosis, Kyphosis, Psoriasis, Dermatomyocitis, and Raynaud's Phenomenon.

I learned first hand that due to pre-existing people that bullshitted doctors, it made it hard for me, who really needed some prescription relief to obtain that.

The totally healthy kids going in and lying like a motherfucker to get some Lortab made it hard for people like me to actually get something I needed.

Provided a guide like this may help other legitimate pain suffers into obtaining the prescriptions they need that have been so hard to obtain due to complete scammers.

At the same time, it teaches people to become complete scammers. You can't bitch about every little aspect of everything though. Everything comes with a positive and negative. It's how things work.

If it's so offending to you, then fucking leave.

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Panthrax didn't write that. A wonderfully immature teenager wrote that back in 2005-ish and I believe his current opinion of the article is that it is little more than an immature pile of shit. I think he's probably of the opinion that it's selfish and stupid to waste doctor's time and also that it is insulting to treat a doctor like a common drug dealer. I'd imagine that's the way he thinks now, anyway.

*doesn't take the bait*

I suggest you guys disregard this troll post.

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by AdMech

Yesss. Fucking awesome; thanks.


Well, I went to the ER for a seizure, once... think I could claim I fell off a chair onto my back, or something along those lines? (I did, but it didn't actually hurt my back more than a day or two.)

Edit: Also, is there any particular area of the back you would recommend complaining about?


Again, thanks. Chemistry and writing are my only two real talents, but I can Paypal you a small amount (sorry - I'm poor ) or somethin' too.

PM on the way re: your question.

An accident due to a seizure is entirely plausible. Play on that.

You're most likely to cause injury to your neck in such a scenario. Use that situation. You had a seizure, fell out of a chair, hit your head, and your neck hasn't been the same since. Provide any documents of your seizure.

I don't require or want any monetary reward. I'm glad to help. Maybe one day if the future you can help me, that would be cool. I'll hold my "IOU" until then.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by skygear

WOW....

@ panthrax - nice work

Not ripping into anyone, sky...

[water bottle]

Bah, never mind. You did rewrite it in its entirety.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Admitted bullshit

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Bah, never mind. You did rewrite it in its entirety.

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by panthrax

Indeed, enjoy the gloating. As a serious question though, are you still clean? And if so why do you still spend time around here, doesn't that get difficult?

[Tachosomoza]

I think watuh bottle's a little jelly...

[water bottle]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

I think watuh bottle's a little jelly...

No, I'm not. It's just that the structure and title are the exact same as the one robbinthehood wrote, and without reading the entire OP I assumed he was passing a plagiarized work off as his own. Jelly of what exactly, anyway? A bunch of thanks and a lifestyle I don't take part in anymore ?

[panthrax]

Originally Posted by water bottle

Indeed, enjoy the gloating. As a serious question though, are you still clean? And if so why do you still spend time around here, doesn't that get difficult?

Still clean, yes. Zoklet isn't such a huge part of my life that it becomes tempting to get high again.

And honestly dude, as ridiculous as it sounds, you really did seem jealous over a stupid little thread. I mean, who really gives a fuck?

[water bottle]

Once again, "jealous" is hardly the word. Without being too hurtful, do you really think many people are jealous of what you've been through/put yourself though in any context? "Frustrated at what I believed was complete plagiarism and at something I morally disagree with" fits much better. But I'll be done with this thread now. Just try not to make your appointments last longer than 5-10 minutes so the kid with leukemia has a bit of time.