World money heading towards consolidation?

[Zay]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/7851925a-17a...nclick_check=1

China’s central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund.

Read that. Read it and weep. Just a few months ago this would have been considered a conspiracy theory.

Anyways, tin foil hat off, it's just a proposal. I don't know how they would implement this at all without wrecking both the US's and China's economy. Maybe they don't care.
__________________________________________________ _________________________

Update: I'm no expert on these worldly matters, but it doesn't sound like this is heading towards a happy ending.

As you all know, the g20 has decided that big, bigger, and biggest government is going to save the world.
This reminds me of Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine, where government, beneficiaries, and the media work together take advantage of crises for massive profit and power-grabbing.

the Group of 20 approved a one-time issuance of $250 billion in Special Drawing Rights, the synthetic currency of the fund, which will be parceled out to all its 185 members.

SDR: http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/sdr.htm


the g20 nations will create 250billion in sdr out of thin air:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/g...thin-air/16079

[driveby]

The end is here.

[lord]

You have to register to read more?!? fuck you

[postdiluvium]

Political posturing, maybe?

I don't know, China seems to have control of the oil fields in Africa. The one place receiving international attention would be Sudan. China being the main thing blocking the UN from doing anything about Sudan. Having a new US President of Kenyan ancestry might push China into showing they've got the balls to do what it takes to keep everything the way it has been. Just guessing.

[patton]

I HIGHLY doubt it'll actually happen.
I don't think the IMF would go for it.

And I'm not quite sure why China would want that anyways.

[Vargus]

That's hot.

[puzld]

Yes, the shit has hit the fan.

Another extremely disturbing event:

The (privately owned) Federal Reserve Bank has now started buying U.S. Treasury Bonds.

This I believe is an unprecedented event. Our debt has historically been bought by foreign countries like Saudi Arabia (whose economy must be total shit now with oil prices so low) and China (whose economy will be shit since the U.S. economy is).

So they can't buy our debt. Now the Federal Reserve, which basically creates our money, is going to print more money and loan it to us at interest to pay the debt...

Fuck it, I can't even wrap my head around how all of this works.

Thank God we have our Saviour Obama.

[Vargus]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Likewise, I'm not sure how the Fed would do this. The Fed is buying a real asset for a real amount of money (we don't know if it is going to print money or not). This is academically reasonable, since the Fed is a private entity and it pays with cash.

However, it gets a little insane when it comes time to cash out. Does the federal government pay the Fed back with the Fed's own money, or does some set amount of money plus interest just cease to exist at that point? But there is nothing in it for the Fed to print X money now and burn X+Y in the future, so that idea doesn't make sense.

As for China, how is that going to work? The only reason their economy is worth the ink that is printed on its reports is because it ties it currency directly to the US. If the IMF takes control (which it won't, mark my words) it pretty much kills China's economy because it is overrated now.

However, this is fearmongering anyway since Xioachaun is not the Prime Minister. That's like Benny Bernanke making some statement and the media prints "America says X." Some guy you have most likely never heard of said something insane today, and you shouldn't pay crazy people any attention.

[Star Wars Fan]

The US and other Western nations still have a majority of influence in the IMF so it can't be too much of a drastic change.

Can't the money basically be turned into something else, like whatever that global system is? Remember the dollar is a fiat currency.

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Zay

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/7851925a-17a...nclick_check=1



Read that. Read it and weep. Just a few months ago this would have been considered a conspiracy theory.

Anyways, tin foil hat off, it's just a proposal. I don't know how they would implement this at all without wrecking both the US's and China's economy. Maybe they don't care.

I think it's more likely they're making it clear who has who by the balls.
Expect some sort of “new bretton woods” in the near future. The dominance over the IMF and the entire international currency system that the US has enjoyed since the end of World War 2 is certainly about to come to an end.

In the end China can deal with the consequences of an international financial catastrophe far better then most western nations anyway. As long as they have access to oil they can always revert to a certain level of central planning during a crisis period and impose martial law across the entire country.
Even if the US attempted to do similar things, the country is de-industrialized and the strategic petroleum reserve wouldn’t last long if it was used for anything other then supplying agriculture, some transportation, and the army.

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by patton

I HIGHLY doubt it'll actually happen.
I don't think the IMF would go for it.

Since the east asian financial crisis China has been building one fucker of a treasure trove so that they won’t ever be in a position where they have to go to the IMF for help. China, Russia, and other such nations don’t want to go through ‘the system’ to do this. As far as they're concerned the IMF, World bank, ect are run by and for the benefit of the west. They want to get rid of the entire system and put in an entirely new one.

[Struwwelpeter]

Do you guys know of Jim Rogers? Just youtube his name and watch every video they have of him, and report back to this thread.

[Space Monkey]

Good posts Dichromate, I completely agree with everything you said.

I think the economic hegemony Western nations have been enjoying since the Bretton Woods conference is about to fade, the foreign corrency reserve the Chinese now hold is unparalleled in history.

However right now is still in China's interest to keep the dollar stable, as they hold huge reserves of it, switching to another currency as the article suggests would inevitably bring the value of the dollar down.

[Knight of Blackness]

It's not too bad. America has the tendency to fall flat on her face every decade or so. Not having to rely on the Dollar is a good thing for other countries banks.

[skyclaw441]

This is when I fucking leave the country. *packs bags and hitches on the flight to Japan*

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by skyclaw441

This is when I fucking leave the country. *packs bags and hitches on the flight to Japan*

If shit really did fuck up, I wouldn't leave this country for anything. Really though, we have lots of open space and plenty of game to eat, with a moderate climate. It's one of the best places to be as long as you are well-armed.

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Knight of Blackness

It's not too bad. America has the tendency to fall flat on her face every decade or so.

You really don't get it.

[ComradeAsh]

*switches to euro*

[Cir]

Originally Posted by Vargus

If shit really did fuck up, I wouldn't leave this country for anything. Really though, we have lots of open space and plenty of game to eat, with a moderate climate. It's one of the best places to be as long as you are well-armed.

Along with 250 million others?

Need my personal space, man.

[Space Monkey]

Originally Posted by Cir

Along with 250 million others?

Need my personal space, man.

Actually ArgonPlasma is perfectly right, in case of a major catastrophe Americans would better off than Europeans and certainly in an extremely better situation than the Japanese.

You do have a lot of empty land and huge ammount of natural resources, fresh water and wild game, even if the entire urban population of the US were to relocate into the wild, there would still be enough space.

[Cir]

Originally Posted by Space Monkey

Actually ArgonPlasma is perfectly right, in case of a major catastrophe Americans would better off than Europeans and certainly in an extremely better situation than the Japanese.

You do have a lot of empty land and huge ammount of natural resources, fresh water and wild game, even if the entire urban population of the US were to relocate into the wild, there would still be enough space.

The continent of Australia is a lot like the US, we have big game (wild buffallo, boars, kangaroos, crocodiles and camels) and an assload of space to go around for only 21 million people. 2.8 people per square kilometer, to the US's 31/km square.

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Cir

The continent of Australia is a lot like the US, we have big game (wild buffallo, boars, kangaroos, crocodiles and camels) and an assload of space to go around for only 21 million people. 2.8 people per square kilometer, to the US's 31/km square.

Yes we obviously have Kangaroos just about everywhere and up north crocs.
Yes there are boars and camels (yay for introduced species) in some areas.

But buffalo? where?

[Cir]

Originally Posted by Dichromate

Yes we obviously have Kangaroos just about everywhere and up north crocs.
Yes there are boars and camels (yay for introduced species) in some areas.

But buffalo? where?

Queensland and northern territory, they were introduced for farming, but went feral (just like every animal introduced to Australia). There are a lot in Arnhem land where most white people aren't allowed to go, so they don't get hunted very much up there.

[Space Monkey]

Is there enough fresh water though? I know some parts of Australia suffer a lot from periods of drought.

[Cir]

Originally Posted by Space Monkey

Is there enough fresh water though? I know some parts of Australia suffer a lot from periods of drought.

They move to the desert and then complain about the drought. It's their own damn fault. Fresh water isn't hard to find in the tropics or in the lower regions. Even in the desert you can find enough to suit your needs. The people moaning about the drought only do so because they don't have enough water for their thousands of acres of water-guzzling crops.

[Knight of Blackness]

If shit meets Fan, I'll hide out on Zoklet.

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by Cir

Along with 250 million others?

Need my personal space, man.

Are you kidding me? People today can barely tie their shoes, let alone survive more than a couple days without power.

You can keep Australia. Alot of good big game will do you without guns.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by Vargus

If shit really did fuck up, I wouldn't leave this country for anything. Really though, we have lots of open space and plenty of game to eat, with a moderate climate. It's one of the best places to be as long as you are well-armed.

You live in mississippi (regarding the 'moderate climate' thing ). Try a chicago winter

OTOH the prevaling culture in Chicago (or the northern half of the Midwest in general) would probably be friendlier to me than in Mississippi

Originally Posted by Space Monkey

Actually ArgonPlasma is perfectly right, in case of a major catastrophe Americans would better off than Europeans and certainly in an extremely better situation than the Japanese.

Europeans have a better infrastructure regarding dependence on oil. They can use bus and trains and keep most of their stuff working. Compare that to America and its' suburban sprawl which would all be abandoned and the subsequent herds of refugees and the chaos that entails. Such a waste of resources in hindsight, right? People were warning about sprawl since the 1970s lol. Japan has limited sprawl, and a LOT of its' power is from nuclear energy, more than many European countries (excepting France). Japan might be able to stay intact and probably end up repeating history by taking over parts of China and Korea and all

even if the entire urban population of the US were to relocate into the wild, there would still be enough space.

I think the carrying capacity of the earth is already stressed. Then again those people may move into smaller towns and consume less, etc. eh.

[Vargus]

OTOH the prevaling culture in Chicago (or the northern half of the Midwest in general) would probably be friendlier to me than in Mississippi

Naa, just stay in the northern half and out of the really small, seedy towns and you'll do just fine. Course, if martial law gets declared I'm sure there are going to be plenty of white people that'll get spooked if they see a black fellow snooping around.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by Vargus

Naa, just stay in the northern half and out of the really small, seedy towns and you'll do just fine. Course, if martial law gets declared I'm sure there are going to be plenty of white people that'll get spooked if they see a black fellow snooping around.

IIRC southern mississippis is where the "Black Belt" goes through, aka I'd be safe(er) than in the majority-european areas . Also I have family there, though that gets complicated ehh...,

Jackson is a pretty large city, so that's a fun place to go to as well . But there's also the factor/fact that there are more *weird* people in Chicago than in northern Mississippi (and arguably the culture is more accepting of all sorts of weird people). How many other channers do you know there, for example? Granted you're in a college town but it's easier to make friends in larger cities. Remember someone saying Memphis apparently sucks and someone saying they didn't make any new friends since they moved to the memphis area.

Also I didn't notice how close I was to you during my spring break in Tunica. After taking a good drive around the Memphis area, it's larger than I thought (The other times there wasn't much time spent in the area, but wow 0_o)

This is based off the information I received and my experiences so add moar.

Go to New Orleans....then again Global Warming means that may be flooded....

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Vargus

Are you kidding me? People today can barely tie their shoes, let alone survive more than a couple days without power.

You can keep Australia. Alot of good big game will do you without guns.

There are plenty of bolt action rifles and whatnot floating around, particularly in country areas. Not to mention shotguns.
Obviously world war one era technology isn't going to be so great for self defense, but there's no problem as far as animals are concerned.

[023]

We should create an international army and navy too.

Fucking chink.

[Chron John Silver]

Yeah, GO FED, lets just print off a bunch of money to save our problems, that worked for the Soviet Union in the nineties right??

[freeRadical]

Originally Posted by puzld

Yes, the shit has hit the fan.

Another extremely disturbing event:

The (privately owned) Federal Reserve Bank has now started buying U.S. Treasury Bonds.

This I believe is an unprecedented event. Our debt has historically been bought by foreign countries like Saudi Arabia (whose economy must be total shit now with oil prices so low) and China (whose economy will be shit since the U.S. economy is).

No, the Fed has always bought and sold government securities on the open market. It's part of monetary policy. Furthermore, most of the natinoal debt is owned internally that is, by citizens, businesses, and even other government agencies. Only about 20% of the national debt is owned externally that is, by other countries. Also, Japan is our biggest by of debt just so you know.

So they can't buy our debt. Now the Federal Reserve, which basically creates our money, is going to print more money and loan it to us at interest to pay the debt...

I don't think you quite understand what you're talking about.

[freeRadical]

Originally Posted by Chron John Silver

Yeah, GO FED, lets just print off a bunch of money to save our problems, that worked for the Soviet Union in the nineties right??

Yeah, GO OBAMA, just throw a bunch of money at problems, that worked in the seventies right?

[Code Of Silence]

All of you shut up. The U.S. dollar is still strong.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by 023

We should create an international army and navy too.

good idea

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Chron John Silver

Yeah, GO FED, lets just print off a bunch of money to save our problems, that worked for the Soviet Union in the nineties right??

Don't you think the collapse of the Soviet Union might be a LITTLE more complex then that?
Generally fucked system (central planning), 1980s oil glut, the effects 'perestroika' on the economy, the nationalist movements in the SSR's that bubbled to the surface thanks to glasnost, the three way political tug-o-war between reformists, nationalists, and 'conservatives'...
I mean hell, the Soviet Union only existed for two years during the 90s.

[Zay]

Originally Posted by Code Of Silence

All of you shut up. The U.S. dollar is still strong.

Prosperity is a shared illusion. If the world thinks the dollar is down, the dollar is down. After all, it's not based on supply and demand or anything rational and tangible.

[postdiluvium]

Originally Posted by Zay

Prosperity is a shared illusion. If the world thinks the dollar is down, the dollar is down. After all, it's not based on supply and demand or anything rational and tangible.

Ever since the bubble busted, hasn't the dollar doubled its worth in comparison to the British pound?