PuA/Self Development Communities/Forums: Are the people part of them insane?

[Nameraca]

Tl;Dr at end, but the whole post is good. Just skip my own forum experience and read the rest.

I've read a book recently, calling out that self development websites were, most of the time, as well as most books and IRL coaching, usually scams that served only the purpose to make formatted, default individuals with the only capacity to respond to things by a preset manner, through preset filters, all that brainwashed by the coach.

The author also noted that the only time self development coaches were good was to help people push further in their job environnment, but only to increase productivity, or things like that. To push further.

Anyhoo, recently, I was forced to go into a PuA forum, in order to get myself criticized, because I couldn't find anyone IRL who had something to critic. Which is normal, since I don't have a loner silent cold behavior when I'm with my friends.

So anyway. I expose my problem... Asking what part of my behavior makes people flee me.
I also tell them I enjoy being alone and introverted, and I don't want that to change. Please note that I tried being extraverted, didn't really fit me and made me into a nervous bastard.
Also explained that I annoyed the fuck outta people when I was extraverted.
So I wish to stay calm and partly introverted as I am now.

To make it clear: I didn't say: "I want to stay a cold ass bitch and pickup girls". That, is not possible. I said: "I want to be able to stay calm and introverted, yet being able to be warmer to people, so that they don't flee me. I know that I will have to change my beliefs and m attitude, and I'm ready to do that, to the extent I can retain my independance and have my "alone" moments."

Most of the answers I got were hostile. Calling me cold ass bitch, "I don't want to know you"... and I calmly explained that baggage didn't help, that I was okay with changing to being more warm to people... Making a good post analysing what I did, what I could change etc...

More of them were things like "I don't bother reading everything, with such stuck up attitude it's normal nobody likes you"...

Well anyway, it's kinda funny.

I get the feeling these people are somehow still, frustrated, in a way, or are afraid of people thinking differently than they do.

I can hardly put my finger on it, but somehow, by not fitting with their subjective standards, by wanting part of something, but not something else, I was a threat that needed to be rejected. That my attitude, from the messages calling me stuck up, made them react...

Like not wanting a 180 degree change is unacceptable to them. That not wanting their lifestyle makes it impossible to succeed. Bullshit. I know it's possible. People fucking do it all the fucking time. And I'm gonna fucking do it too. I'll succeed, as I am now, with minimal change! I'm NOT becoming an overtly social person feeding on validation like a vampire sucks on blood! If I want to get girls, it's for ME, not for bragging to people on forums like they do with their FC threads and field reports. It's for my FUN, my happiness, and it's not other people's business. Because I feel like it.

I honestly believed, at the very least, despite the fact I rejected PuA sites a long time ago... that at the very least, they would be understanding people.

But they bashed. With no reasons, for a post, with only their subjective perceptions as a basis, while they had no facts, can't tell my attitude from posts and couldn't even provide useful advice. They could only CRITIC what I did/do, without providing alternative or telling me which and which behaviour to eradicate/change, and how to eradicate it, or change it with what.

What do you guys think? Are those guys there in the self development so fed by it that anything that isn't part of what they do is a threat? Not wanting to be like them is making you someone bad?

I can't really put my finger on it, but there's clearly something wrong with these guys.

Are they frustrated, angry, normal, sad? Is the "Oh yeah I FC all the time I'm a happy guy" attitude they have or say we should have, only a facade?

_____Tl;DR____

Members of self-development/pua forums/sites are people who still have issues and are close minded to concepts that differs from what they were indoctrinated with. Your opinion here.

[yawanur]

That shit is creepy.

I generally just expect that girls want to fuck, and if you're fun to hang out with they want to fuck you. If you want to find a girl that will have fun hanging out with you, go out and meet lots of girls; you will find someone awesome eventually. This is where you might find *gasp* looks aren't everything!

I guess more than anything, overthinking sex=bad. Not thinking about it at all and letting things happen=fucking smart.

[Ethan]

I don't agree with the arguement that people in Self Development forums are generally narrow minded, but we definitely have issues. I felt like a real jerk when I realized that the jocks I despised were often more emotionally mature than myself, probably due in part to them taking care of their bodies. Jealousy and other "sinful" attitudes do a good job of disguising and justifying themselves, but negative vibes are negative vibes. I speak from my experience with R&S, I have not visited other communities/forums

I think a common mistake of people that want to help is stating "facts" or "calling it as I see it" without considering the emotional vibe attached to the message, and how another might respond to it. Violence begets violence. Hate begets hate.

[ergoat]

They were just negging you dude. You should've told them to throw in more IOIs.

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by Ethan

I felt like a real jerk when I realized that the jocks I despised were often more emotionally mature than myself

um how old are you?

[Ethan]

I'm 23. I came to this realization when I was in high school, yet to this day I still catch myself cursing under my breath at attractive, muscular men. I suppose jocks and other cliques get along better than they did when I was in school. I was just using it as an example.

[Malcolm Equis]

you have to give those PUAs credit. The good ones at least, if you really listen to them you'll see.

The problem is 95% of the userbase of those forums is like you. There is a lot of truth to PUA material.

But on the topic. Who is sane?

[Nameraca]

Well, they started bashing first, so I trolled them a little. They demeaned me because, as I noted in bold and italic underlined in the first post, supposedly they thought I refused change, which was not the case. I said I didn't want to be a massive extrovert, because then I wouldn't be happy. So I couldn't change that.

The guy with the avatar that's the Deathly Hallows sign minus the wand sign probably takes a healthier approach to those sites than the majority.

Anyway, the book also noted that, self development usually attempts (and succeeds) to erase all baggage and past (this is how they format individiduals) so they can act on the success model the coach is selling, without being held back by whatever could hold them back.

I have a feeling this is true. The way they spit on their AFC personas and stuff. Thing is, today I realized I could have learned from when I was an hyperactive dumbass kid who at least had girls talking to him and kinda flocking to him, at least as friends, and some as possible romantic/sexual interest.

But that dumbass kid has alot of shit to learn from me, too. Too bad he's only around in memories.

Speaking of baggage, I've also had the feeling that those guys on self development sites don't understand that a "stuck up" attitude comes from baggage, and usually never by pure hate or choice. No one wakes up one morning and says "from now on, I'll be mean and cold and hate everyone". No, there's a reason to that. We adopt these personas as defensive measures, armors, to protect ourselve from the things that hurted us in the past...

They don't think about what is behind someone's actions, but only the actions.

Which is weird, because knowing all facts is the basis for anyone who wants to have a better life. (Take that statement with a grain of salt, this is not nihilism and very circumstancial). People are not as shallow as they get up one morning, hate the world, wake up the next, love everybody and his mother.

[Darkhunter]

This you? I just typed in 3-4 phrases your posted and this shit popped up:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=188083

[Jubal Harshaw]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Equis

The problem is 95% of the userbase of those forums is like you. There is a lot of truth to PUA material.

Yes and mostly no.

Most of the users are complete morons. Many of them pretending to talk to girls and shouting the same catch phrases at new members.

There is some valuable material. Talk to people, make friends, smile, build confidence and take care of yourself. That's all the message really is. Everything else is just a mass of keywords to improve search ratings and get adsense money or people trying to boost their self esteem by broadcasting their own affirmations over the Internet.

[Nameraca]

@Darkhunter: Nope. Shits look funny though, I'm gonna have a read!


What I wrote was posted on a french forum. Don't know who speak french here, but I'm sure it's a minority. That said, it's gonna be pretty hard for you to find it, but my goal isn't to hide it. If you want to see it, I may post it. I mean, it's no secret I'm not a warm person. But then again, I don't want my shit misinterpreted like they did.

I want to change... but I don't want to bother myself with being overly social, that would just kill me. Those parties and hangouts I went to, that ended with so many people running around smashed doing whatever... I don't want that shit anymore.

Looks like not agreeing to their views makes you worthy of bashing...

[Michael Scott]

You must be an INFJ

[Nameraca]

Close. INTJ.

I can't help but feel you have something to say in that regard I would be glad to hear it!

[Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Nameraca

@Darkhunter: Nope. Shits look funny though, I'm gonna have a read!

You should read that forum. Its fucking hilarious man.

[Michael Scott]

Actually yes.

I feel like you're over thinking the entire situation. If i remember correctly INTJs are the ones who are really methodical and can overanalyze any situation, which probably explains why you annoy people when you try to be extroverted. You try too hard to act a certain way that you're not and it comes off unnatural. But i digress...
You have to realize that more than 3/4 of people on those kind of sites are full of shit. Do you really think someone that picks up hot chicks all the time would sit around on the interwebz and brag about it? fuck no. You also have to realize that 'introverted' kind of has a bad connotation these days. When people hear that they automatically think that we introverts try to cut ourselves off from society because we're grumpy or unsociable, they don't realize or understand that we need our space.
So long story short, they're either a) full of shit and trying to act like they are superior to you or b) don't understand what its like to be an introvert, so they attacked you for that.

[Michael Scott]

Originally Posted by Darkhunter

This you? I just typed in 3-4 phrases your posted and this shit popped up:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=188083

lol

[Malcolm Equis]

Originally Posted by Jubal Harshaw

Yes and mostly no.

Most of the users are complete morons. Many of them pretending to talk to girls and shouting the same catch phrases at new members.

There is some valuable material. Talk to people, make friends, smile, build confidence and take care of yourself. That's all the message really is. Everything else is just a mass of keywords to improve search ratings and get adsense money or people trying to boost their self esteem by broadcasting their own affirmations over the Internet.

Not really true at all.

Confidence is not nearly as important as people make it out to be. In my experience only people without it are the ones who say it's so important.

[Jubal Harshaw]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Equis

Not really true at all.

Confidence is not nearly as important as people make it out to be. In my experience only people without it are the ones who say it's so important.

Who said it was "so important"? Having confidence is good. Women like confident men. Confidence in your abilities makes taking action easier.

Maybe you're confusing confidence with narcissism, which is a common mistake on the aforementioned sites.

Most of the people on those sites have no confidence. Hence why it is talked about so much.

In my experience only people without confidence are the ones who say it's so unimportant.

Yeah, I totally agree. You should just ignore any potentially debilitating self-esteem/confidence issues since it is clearly over-hyped and completely false.

[Nameraca]

Originally Posted by Jubal Harshaw

Maybe you're confusing confidence with narcissism, which is a common mistake on the aforementioned sites.

Could you explain the difference? It's something I've been struggling to understand the limit where confidence becomes narcissism, and it's been holding me back.

Didn't want to become like the narcisssists who pissed me off... leeched off my resilience.

[Jubal Harshaw]

I don't think there is clear line between confidence and narcissism. Narcissism is a trait that people dislike(there was a study I read that said that INITIALLY narcissists are more popular with people). Healthy, moderate levels of confidence is an attractive quality.

Confidence is knowing you are capable and being comfortable with yourself.

Narcissism is being obviously self-centered and self-absorbed.

I doubt this is very clear.

[Nameraca]

It's hard to tell at which point confidence becomes narcissism.

My main struggle is that I am cold, not a warm person.

I'm afraid acting confident will make me look narcissist.

My other issues about being cold... I guess I will have to deal with 'em.

[Jubal Harshaw]

Sure fire way to not come off as narcissistic: don't talk about yourself too much. Confident people don't need to boast.

As far as being cold, that's a tough one. People don't like that, especially women. Women respond very differently to emotions and the majority of them require emotional mutual involvement and closeness in their relationships. Arousal for women is also closely tied to their emotional states which are affected by their partner.

I should know, I've been with enough women who all complained about my lack of emotion.

[p6867]

Stupid pickup artist shit works on the kind of girls who flash bars for shots and revenge on their fathers. The easiest way to pick up regular non hoes is to be an interesting enough person that women actually want to be around you and in decent shape and well groomed so they actually want to fuck you.

[Nameraca]

So Jubal, how should I go about showing interest and emotional involvement?

Being too emotional too fast is bad, coming off as creepy, but not enough is bad too.

How enough is enough?

[Jubal Harshaw]

You need to pick who you are emotional with. Women love the whole idea of "cracking" your shell. So, naturally emotional involvement comes later, when you're actually in a relationship.

In everyday life don't be afraid so smile, laugh and be funny. Behind closed doors with close friends don't be afraid to tell them small parts of your closely guarded emotions and thoughts. It is best to mirror people when they share: relate to them with similar experiences. Be careful because sometimes people tell some stuff that is inappropriate, don't mirror that.

Comfort people occasionally.

It boils down to experience. Start sharing with friends and pick up on how they react. Adjust accordingly.

There is no recipe.

[Nameraca]

Well, I have quite a thick shell.

I don't get that part

So, naturally emotional involvement comes later, when you're actually in a relationship.

Okay, that's true. But I need to show emotions when I first speak to someone, at least human warmth. Right? It's a different kind of emotion?

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by p6867

Stupid pickup artist shit works on the kind of girls who flash bars for shots and revenge on their fathers. The easiest way to pick up regular non hoes is to be an interesting enough person that women actually want to be around you and in decent shape and well groomed so they actually want to fuck you.

this.

[Jubal Harshaw]

Originally Posted by Nameraca

Okay, that's true. But I need to show emotions when I first speak to someone, at least human warmth. Right? It's a different kind of emotion?

As long as you appear happy when talking to people it won't matter.