Perry wants to extend the drug war by deploying troops in mexico.

[faggot]

that'd be awesome! mundonarco.com would be a billion times ko0ler!

[bortmackie]

Well first of all, decriminalizing drug usage is different from legalizing drug trafficking/production. The cartels won't be able to set up legal plantations, that's preposterous. The idea is to help addicts and reduce the number of people buying drugs, not letting drug traffickers run wild. As if the cartels could even shut down and set up shop here in the U.S., they're not citizens and therefore can't purchase land, and i guarantee you a giant poppy field inside our borders would be found pretty fucking quickly.

[yawanur]

Originally Posted by Vizier

However for some reason I'd like Perry to win and begin a literal war here.

It would be lulz...

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by bortmackie

Well first of all, decriminalizing drug usage is different from legalizing drug trafficking/production. The cartels won't be able to set up legal plantations, that's preposterous. The idea is to help addicts and reduce the number of people buying drugs, not letting drug traffickers run wild. As if the cartels could even shut down and set up shop here in the U.S., they're not citizens and therefore can't purchase land, and i guarantee you a giant poppy field inside our borders would be found pretty fucking quickly.

Why do they need to set up legal plantations? They -already- have them in their own country, and if it's no longer illegal to possess, use, sell or otherwise traffick drugs, what's stopping them from setting up small businesses in the USA and shipping their product here to sell?

Lastly, where did you get the idea that foreigners can't own land in the USA?

[LegalizeSpiritualDiscovry]

Lol if drugs were legal, the cartel wouldn't make any money because nobody would buy from them if they could buy quality shit with sanitation guidelines and whatnot. The whole reason they are in the drug trade (and are so violent about it) is because it's illegal and thus a way to make money.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Imagine the following week after marijuana is finally legalized.

Now...imagine when psychedelics get legalized....

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by LegalizeSpiritualDiscovry

Lol if drugs were legal, the cartel wouldn't make any money because nobody would buy from them if they could buy quality shit with sanitation guidelines and whatnot. The whole reason they are in the drug trade (and are so violent about it) is because it's illegal and thus a way to make money.

What sanitation guidelines? As someone already said, it's decriminalized, not legalized, and therefore not regulated. And even if those guidelines were implemented, what makes you think they can't follow the sanitation guidelines or bribe someone to say they're following them? They're criminals and animals, but they're also businessmen, not fucking idiots.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

I guess the only solution is to start a war in mexico

Or, we could legalize the drug, stop punishing people by putting them in prison/making them pay ridiculous fines that doesn't actually stop them from using drugs or selling them, if anything, it makes it worse. Regulate and tax the drugs. Take the money that we would have otherwise spent to "fight drug abuse", and invest it in rehabilitation centers. Legalize spiritual discov- er I mean, allow people to find go- er, I mean......drop acid.....

I don't think they should sell crack and meth and shit in stores, but it's making the situation worse by keeping them illegal.

Hell, they could even take the approach where it's still illegal to sell them, but not illegal to use or possess them (as long as you aren't driving or whatever).

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

I guess the only solution is to start a war in mexico

Or, we could legalize the drug, stop punishing people by putting them in prison/making them pay ridiculous fines that doesn't actually stop them from using drugs or selling them, if anything, it makes it worse. Regulate and tax the drugs. Take the money that we would have otherwise spent to "fight drug abuse", and invest it in rehabilitation centers. Legalize spiritual discov- er I mean, allow people to find go- er, I mean......drop acid.....

... or the third option, realizing that both the Perry War and blanket legalization/decriminalization/whichever are supremely bad ideas and come up with something better.

But you know, that would actually require some thought and insight rather than echoing popular phrases.

re: edit - What makes you think your local Wal-Greens isn't going to pull the standard outsourcing maneuver and buy from cartels who are now operating legally? I mean, we already purchase shit from dictatorships and fascist countries like it doesn't matter. Why the fuck would they care about exchanging one pack of scum for another?

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Alright, tell us how to solve the problem, then. It's only been getting worse with each passing day. So tell us your ingenious plan.

[Malcolm Equis]

Lets hope the zapatistas rise and take over mexico and then kill all the cartel members.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

Alright, tell us how to solve the problem, then. It's only been getting worse with each passing day. So tell us your ingenious plan.

Where in this equation am I required to have an answer for a "problem" I really don't give a damn about? I don't include all drugs under the "legalize marijuana" banner that I happen to agree with, so ultimately, I see no need for a solution to what you perceive to be a problem - that being that you can't get the drugs you want legally.

I may not be an anti-drug fanatic, but I'm not on board with what you believe, either. Marijuana and marijuana only. Separate and small issue, except in its impact on the waste of resources that its widespread use results in.

[Malcolm Equis]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

Imagine the following week after marijuana is finally legalized.

Now...imagine when psychedelics get legalized....

more like

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Why not just legalize them to the extent that you can use and possess them, but if you possess over X amount, then it's considered intent to distribute and it's still illegal?

This is for hard addictive drugs.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Equis

more like

I'm not sure what you're trying to say xD

[LegalizeSpiritualDiscovry]

Originally Posted by Iehovah

What sanitation guidelines? As someone already said, it's decriminalized, not legalized, and therefore not regulated. And even if those guidelines were implemented, what makes you think they can't follow the sanitation guidelines or bribe someone to say they're following them? They're criminals and animals, but they're also businessmen, not fucking idiots.

Who is saying "it's decriminalized, not legalized."? Maybe that's what you think should or would happen, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[LegalizeSpiritualDiscovry]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

Why not just legalize them to the extent that you can use and possess them, but if you possess over X amount, then it's considered intent to distribute and it's still illegal?

This is for hard addictive drugs.

Why? There is no reason whatsoever that should be done in the first place. They should be legal, period. There is no clearly valid rationale for prohibiting humans from ingesting whatever chemical or substance they so choose.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by LegalizeSpiritualDiscovry

Who is saying "it's decriminalized, not legalized."? Maybe that's what you think should or would happen, but that's not what I'm talking about.

bortmackie - "Well first of all, decriminalizing drug usage is different from legalizing drug trafficking/production."

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

Why not just legalize them to the extent that you can use and possess them, but if you possess over X amount, then it's considered intent to distribute and it's still illegal?

This is for hard addictive drugs.

So, in this theoretical situation, the only way for people to get the drugs they want is to make them themselves...

... or acquire them illegally.

Same old, same old.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

What's wrong with making your own drugs? Last time I checked, if you're making your own drugs....then...the cartels...aren't.....hmmmm

And of course you'd have to buy them illegally. That's why we need to legalize and regulate them, EXACTLY LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO.

Do you see any gangs/cartels selling alcohol? No, because it's regulated by the government.

Do you see them selling tobacco? No, because it's regulated.

Are you starting to see the pattern here?

[Malcolm Equis]

I got the solution guys, we need to undercut the cartels prices. We need the CIA to invest more money into crack cocaine so we can beat them this time.

[Vizier]

This thread needs more Rust.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

What's wrong with making your own drugs? Last time I checked, if you're making your own drugs....then...the cartels...aren't.....hmmmm

And of course you'd have to buy them illegally. That's why we need to legalize and regulate them, EXACTLY LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO.

Do you see any gangs/cartels selling alcohol? No, because it's regulated by the government.

Do you see them selling tobacco? No, because it's regulated.

Are you starting to see the pattern here?

Don't think for a second that I completely missed the switch from "growing your own" to open industrial production. Pick an argument and stick with it. Are we talking about small-scale self-contained non-distribution, or are we talking into an open corporate environment that a cartel can move into.

The real question is: Why aren't -you- seeing the pattern, and why are you attributing a similar scenario to a completely different set of circumstances? Those alcohol and tobacco companies had a long history in this country before prohibition, and ultimately prohibition didn't change anything.

Same does not hold true for "hard addictive drugs" such as the cartels produce and distribute. Actually putting such an industry into place takes a great deal of time, money and investment by new or existing companies. Cartels on the other hand, require none of the above. The already have the resources, and in a legalization scenario such as you have conveniently opened for them, they're a perfect outsourcing option.

Tell me, exactly -what- regulations would be put in place and what treaties will you break to ensure that only domestic producers can provide these drugs and not cartels?

If you can't answer that, you probably don't have enough grasp on the economics of the situation to be making the suggestion that you're endorsing. You're treating "regulation" as a cure-all, and it isn't. Most especially not when you are talking about criminals who break and skirt regulations like they are nothing.

[bortmackie]

All i was trying to say was that if you decriminalize small possession and usage we would be in a lot better position to help drug addicts quit and decrease the demand for drugs. just basic economics. with the money we would save not sending addicts and potheads to jail we would be able to fund treatment centers as an alternative to prison. Sending these people to jail just forces them out of society and gives them more of a reason to continue using.

This way it wouldn't be illegal to buy drugs, but traffickers and dealers would still be breaking the law. The government could regulate and sell drugs, but then you have to figure out who should be allowed to purchase them. The only program of that kind that i know of provides heroin to long-term addicts who have failed to stay clean.

[Vizier]

Just light another joint, Megalodon. Continue your spiritual pipe dreams while people sink themselves more into decadence, corruption and their own greedy dreams made out of smoke and dust.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Ok, so what you're saying is that we can't make them legal. We should keep them illegal?

If keeping them illegal helps the prison industrial complex as well as cartels thrive, and legalizing them will effectively reduce the prison industrial complex, while having little to no impact on the cartels as you theorize, then how is the latter a bad idea?

How is it detrimental? How will it make things worse?? I'm definitely not saying that it's a cure-all. But it looks like the most logical step from where we are at.

And how is the alternate plan (illegal to sell, legal to use) worse than our current policy?



Who would really buy from a cartel gang if they knew they could just buy from their fucking neighbor who makes it in their basement, or walmart (or whatever, shit)??

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Vizier

Just light another joint, Megalodon.

I would if I wasn't on probation.

Fuck the police.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

Ok, so what you're saying is that we can't make them legal. We should keep them illegal?

I'm saying keep them illegal until you come up with a much better way to legalize them.

If keeping them illegal helps the prison industrial complex as well as cartels thrive, and legalizing them will effectively reduce the prison industrial complex, while having little to no impact on the cartels as you theorize, then how is the latter a bad idea?

Okay, two points here:
> The prison industrial complex is going to thrive regardless of this plan, thanks to a bunch of people too busy screaming in outrage about "racism" of certain immigration laws to notice the men behind the curtain.
> The cartels have already been addressed. How are you impacting their bottom line when you've basically whitewashed their nasty little reputation and given them a blank check to operate in the USA?

How is it detrimental? How will it make things worse?? I'm definitely not saying that it's a cure-all. But it looks like the most logical step from where we are at.

I take it you completely ignored the point I made earlier about giving a bunch of murderous criminals access to a wide-open and previously untapped market in the USA? Completely ignore the impact of the drugs themselves, and think about exactly what that does. That's importing all of Mexico's worst attributes.

And how is the alternate plan (illegal to sell, legal to use) worse than our current policy?

How is it any different? That law already exists, to a limited extent.

Who would really buy from a cartel gang if they knew they could just buy from their fucking neighbor who makes it in their basement, or walmart (or whatever, shit)??

Wal-Mart will no doubt happily outsource it to the cartels, and you are operating on the assumption people are going to be willing to undertake illegal production of regulated drugs when they can get it from Wal-Mart. Why would they bother?

You can't even answer basic questions with any kind of insight about the impact this would have on our society. What makes you think it would work the way you want it to?

And more importantly, why do you keep switching back and forth in your argument? Either we are talking about a legal and regulated industry, or we are talking about legal use, illegal distribution. Which is it?

[bortmackie]

isn't the current legal drug industry (pharma) just as evil? they also profit off the misery of our citizens, convince people to take drugs they don't need, and help create many of the addicts in our society. Even if you kept the production and selling of drugs inside the U.S. under legal corporations, it wouldn't do shit to reduce the number of drug addicts we have. If it wasn't the cartels, it would be someone else.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by bortmackie

isn't the current legal drug industry (pharma) just as evil? they also profit off the misery of our citizens, convince people to take drugs they don't need, and help create many of the addicts in our society. Even if you kept the production and selling of drugs inside the U.S. under legal corporations, it wouldn't do shit to reduce the number of drug addicts we have. If it wasn't the cartels, it would be someone else.

Nice rationalization for embracing pure evil. Is Big Pharma just as evil? Maybe, but it seems to me that Big Pharma's a lot less likely to cut your head off when you get in their way.

Literally, that is. They're all about the figurative castration.

[Snoopy]

Yes, YES! DO IT FAGGOT!

Can't wait to see videos of gringo GIs gettinf fucked up by mexican drug cartels.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Iehovah

Okay, two points here:
> The prison industrial complex is going to thrive regardless of this plan,

It will still reduce it.

How are you impacting their bottom line when you've basically whitewashed their nasty little reputation and given them a blank check to operate in the USA?

Because, no one will bother buying from them. They don't have to cut anyone's heads off with chainsaws because there won't be anyone's heads to cut off. No one will be double-crossing them, because no one is buying from them.

Boom. Violent crimes vanish (not all of them in the whole wide world of crime, obviously). Just like the end of alcohol prohibition.

I take it you completely ignored the point I made earlier about giving a bunch of murderous criminals access to a wide-open and previously untapped market in the USA?

You know, it wouldn't be all that hard to run background checks on people before giving them a position selling legal drugs. You really think we would just start hiring anyone who wants to apply for the position? Hell no. It would be extensive as fuck.

Completely ignore the impact of the drugs themselves

With all of the money we'd save from the "war on drugs", couldn't we just use it to actually help people and their addictions?

How is it any different? That law already exists, to a limited extent.

It's different because we aren't sending people to hell, er, I mean prison, we're not punishing them, worsening their condition. We can even use the same funding to rehabilitate them.

Wal-Mart will no doubt happily outsource it to the cartels,

And what makes you say that? When the fuck have they ever done something like this? I mean, wal-mart is pretty evil, but I don't think they're THAT fucking evil.

and you are operating on the assumption people are going to be willing to undertake illegal production of regulated drugs when they can get it from Wal-Mart. Why would they bother?

Shit, if you knew you could get away with it, you would. It's probably cheaper.

You can't even answer basic questions with any kind of insight about the impact this would have on our society. What makes you think it would work the way you want it to?

I know they should be legal. I should be able to put whatever I want in my body as long as it doesn't physically harm anyone else. I'm not 100% certain on all of the details, but who is?

All I know is that our current system is making things worse and worse. Obviously legalization is the only logical step here. Now, working out the fine details, sure, we have to do that. But has our government even bothered? Fuck no. What have they done in the past decade? They just keep making more and more drugs illegal. The only positive thing they've done is medical marijuana. And even that is a fucking joke. Cannabis should be 100% legal in every way and form.

And more importantly, why do you keep switching back and forth in your argument? Either we are talking about a legal and regulated industry, or we are talking about legal use, illegal distribution. Which is it?

I'm not switching back and forth. I'm considering both of them. Why can't I keep my options open?

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

It will still reduce it.

Hard numbers on this? Compared to the number of potential number of illegal immigrants to be jailed (est 11M?), these numbers seem rather .... insignificant.

http://open.salon.com/blog/stephanni...lated_offenses

Because, no one will bother buying from them. They don't have to cut anyone's heads off with chainsaws because there won't be anyone's heads to cut off. No one will be double-crossing them, because no one is buying from them.

What are you basing this logic on? Why wouldn't people bother buying from them? Why would they choose illegal sources over a legal source?

You know, it wouldn't be all that hard to run background checks on people before giving them a position selling legal drugs. You really think we would just start hiring anyone who wants to apply for the position? Hell no. It would be extensive as fuck.

How is that relevant? These people aren't employees, they're CEOS. In other words, these cartels, their leadership, they are the suppliers.

With all of the money we'd save from the "war on drugs", couldn't we just use it to actually help people and their addictions?

Why isn't the world a magically happy place, or even the USA for that matter? Oh, right. Because the people in charge don't really give a shit. Changing the law isn't going to make them care....

It's different because we aren't sending people to hell, er, I mean prison, we're not punishing them, worsening their condition. We can even use the same funding to rehabilitate them.

.... and on that note, if it's legal to use drugs, and no longer a criminal act, why would someone seek out rehabilitation for something society is telling them is their right and perogative to do? Enabling someone's habits isn't improving their condition.

Moreover, why are you telling me that? Do you really believe they need help, or are you running this bullshit line of logic because you think pretending you care when what you really want is the right to do as you please and don't actually give a damn about their problems?

And what makes you say that? When the fuck have they ever done something like this? I mean, wal-mart is pretty evil, but I don't think they're THAT fucking evil.

It's not about evil. It's about apathy. Not giving a shit. Why the hell do you think we outsource our defense industry to a nation like China? Or increase our dependence on terrorist rat holes, dictatorships and authoritarian thugocracies in the middle east? Or outsource our jobs to corrupt central and south american countries where they can pay kids pennies a day to make their product and not give a shit when those same kids are conscripted into some cartel's army?

Because they do not give a damn. A lot of evil is born straight out of apathy, and that's exactly what companies like Wal-Mart do. What you are offering is nothing more than an opportunity to invite even more evil into this country.

I know they should be legal. I should be able to put whatever I want in my body as long as it doesn't physically harm anyone else. I'm not 100% certain on all of the details, but who is?

Consider this an emphasis on why I consider your pretense of caring about the rehabilitation of people who use these drugs as their personal right a line of complete bullshit. You don't care, neither do they.

they've done is medical marijuana. And even that is a fucking joke. Cannabis should be 100% legal in every way and form.

Yes, we do agree on something.

I'm not switching back and forth. I'm considering both of them. Why can't I keep my options open?

Fair enough.

[Vizier]

Also, remember that like, 80% of all weapons owned by the cartels and shit come from USA.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Vizier

Can't wait to watch new beheading videos with gringos instead.

Can't wait to watch Drone Strike videos but with spics instead.

[Vizier]

Originally Posted by Cory

Can't wait to watch Drone Strike videos but with spics instead.

Lol, bomb an innocent village and prepare for a shitstorm of mexicans uprising inside US territory

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Vizier

Lol, bomb an innocent village and prepare for a shitstorm of mexicans uprising inside US territory

They won't "rise up". They wouldn't be so stupid as to bite the hand that feeds them.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by The Pat-Man

It's a damn shame really. Mexicans are the most down to earth people you'll ever meet, and alot of their country has been ruined by a culture that revolves around drugs.

This. I visited about five years or so ago and everyone there was great. I wouldn't step foot in there now, though. I'm white as fuck, I'd be an obvious target.

[Intoxicated Shaman]

I would actually root for Mexico to win. Take Texas and Arizona back with you too, we don't need those ass backward idiots with their retarded government policies and corrupt jail systems.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Intoxicated Shaman

Take Texas and Arizona back with you too, we don't need those ass backward idiots with their retarded government policies and corrupt jail systems.

Been monitoring the prison-related bills in your own state recently? j/w

http://www.cca.com/facilities/?state=OH