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Old 10-06-2011, 10:20 PM
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Default proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

just watching question time and they were discussing denmarks fat tax and whether britain should consider it. most people saying its a bad idea, which i agree in these hard economic times. but a girl in the audience just piped up that we shouldn't be thinking about a fat tax but instead we should think about introducing some kind of compulsory exercise regime. lol WTF?? ..did she really think about that one before saying that? can you imagine everyone in the country having to turn up to their local gym every day and not being allowed to leave until they have done 50 press ups and sit ups.

i swear people now have lived in freedom and democracy so long they have totally lost sight of what it actually fucking means.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

Of all the things to force someone into, forcing them into good health has got to be the least of your worries.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

thats not the point here, its a ridiculous idea that just shows the mentality of the average sheep these days.

can you seriously imagine a 'democratic' country forcing all its citizens into nazi style mass exercise regimes??
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

I guess it would suck to be someone with a slow metabolism.

Last edited by Whiskey; 10-06-2011 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

Things like that are the reason direct democracy will never work.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

That's why women weren't allowed to vote for so long.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

that girl in the audience just needs a fat cock to suck on so she can STFU already
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

This thread is appalling. Fredom is not given and freedom is not a right. You have to fight for it and take it for yourself.

Now considering your economy is stagnant to say the least, you have close to zero growth power of your own and are entirely dependent on other economies to "even" break even I would be more than worried about what britons are doing with their freedom. You are the fattest country in western europe.

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Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
i swear people now have lived in freedom and democracy so long they have totally lost sight of what it actually fucking means.


I do agree that people have lost sight of what it means. But I wonder if someone who is compelled by the government to remain fit would really be a whole lot less free than a couch potato who spends his day eating wimpys and complaining about the tea. You will not be free for too long if you let your country fall down to an even more subservient position than it is now. How much will you like your freedom if the time comes when you have chinese officials coming over to tell you exactly what measures you have to take to pay them their debt? Of course the fast food and fitness example is silly but i'm talking about british society in a bigger spectrum. When they are telling you as a society what to do because you are no longer top dog and youre gonna be treated like you treated other countries for so long.

Now of course I don't agree with people being forced to exercise but as someone said, of all the things they could try and force you to do this would have to be the least of your worries.

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Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
thats not the point here, its a ridiculous idea that just shows the mentality of the average sheep these days.

can you seriously imagine a 'democratic' country forcing all its citizens into nazi style mass exercise regimes??

Nazi style mass exercise regimes? Sweetheart people in nazi germany exercised voluntarily because they believed that it was the right thing to do, for both themselves and for their countries. The youth camps where you could see kids exercising in the wild all day long were completely voluntary. On a fitness score germany back then beat england 15 to 1 and none of it was mandatory. I take it youve never watched leni riefenstahl's
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

You can have it your way how do you want it you gon back that thing up or should i push up on it temperature rising ok lets go to the next level dance floor jammed pack hot as a tea kettle i break it down for you now baby it's simple, if you be a nympho i be a nigfo in the hotel or in the back of the rental at the beach or in the park it's whatever you in to got the magic stick, i'm the love doctor, and your friends teasing me about how sprung i got you when you show me you can work it baby, no problem, get on top and get to bouncin' round like a low-rider
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

Wait denmark taxes you for being fat? What the hell kind of democracy is that?
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Wait denmark taxes you for being fat? What the hell kind of democracy is that?
Not the fastest cowboy in the ranch are you willie.
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Old 10-07-2011, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

NOUUUUPPEEEE
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oink The Pig View Post
This thread is appalling. Fredom is not given and freedom is not a right. You have to fight for it and take it for yourself.
yep, im fully aware of that, thanx

Quote:
Now considering your economy is stagnant to say the least, you have close to zero growth power of your own and are entirely dependent on other economies to "even" break even I would be more than worried about what britons are doing with their freedom. You are the fattest country in western europe.
i'm assuming you're american(considering your obvious anti-british sentiment), which makes you THE FATTEST country on earth. so whats you're point?



Quote:
I do agree that people have lost sight of what it means. But I wonder if someone who is compelled by the government to remain fit would really be a whole lot less free than a couch potato who spends his day eating wimpys and complaining about the tea.
wimpy wow, now there's a blast from the past. i don't think there's been one of them in this country in 20 years, lol. anyway wtf are you on about? of course they would be less free as the choice to exercise or not would be taken away from them. and what about people that already have the exercise that they do already, this would mean they would be forced to give that up and do the government exercise program instead or on top.

Quote:
You will not be free for too long if you let your country fall down to an even more subservient position than it is now. How much will you like your freedom if the time comes when you have chinese officials coming over to tell you exactly what measures you have to take to pay them their debt? Of course the fast food and fitness example is silly but i'm talking about british society in a bigger spectrum. When they are telling you as a society what to do because you are no longer top dog and youre gonna be treated like you treated other countries for so long.
you do know i really don't care don't you?? i know full well this country is fucked. it has been for a while and i've been saying that for a good few years now. i said when labour got in in 97 that it would fuck the country and it did. besides after the way this country has treated me lately i have no allegiance to it any more. as far as i'm concerned it can go fuck itself, i'm currently looking at ways to move out, and i don't intend to ever come back. so you really are wasting you're attempted anti-british/pro-american pissing contest with me. in fact the US is my no1 choice if i can find a possible way to go there. but thats another story.

Quote:
Now of course I don't agree with people being forced to exercise but as someone said, of all the things they could try and force you to do this would have to be the least of your worries.
you've still totally missed the point. the point is that most of the public haven't got a clue about what freedom is or what is needed to sort out their country. the same goes where you are and in most countries. its not their fault, well it is for listening to all the bullshit fear-mongering mis-information, but those that peddle it are ultimately to blame for that i guess.


Quote:
Nazi style mass exercise regimes? Sweetheart people in nazi germany exercised voluntarily because they believed that it was the right thing to do, for both themselves and for their countries. The youth camps where you could see kids exercising in the wild all day long were completely voluntary.
kind of irrelevant really, i'm sure people got the point and i bet the whole idea of those mass exercise regimes were nazi party led in some way. certainly would have been suggested. and with the level of fear people had of them, they would have probably spent an hour a day fingering their own assholes in the local town square if hitler had suggested it. it wasn't a good idea to be seen as a bad nazi back then for germans. the nazi party were likely to accuse you of being a spy or something if you didn't fit in with everyone else. reminds you a bit of the US govts view on people who don't support the war on terror a bit actually.

oh and have you seen germans exercising en masse like that before or since the nazi parties rise or fall from power. i haven't, and i think that speaks volumes.

and sweetheart?? ..fucking sweetheart??? ...what are you a fucking faggot???

Quote:
On a fitness score germany back then beat england 15 to 1 and none of it was mandatory. I take it youve never watched leni riefenstahl's
well obviously fucking not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain

Quote:
The failure of Germany to achieve its objectives of destroying Britain's air defences, or forcing Britain to negotiate an armistice or an outright surrender, is considered its first major defeat and one of the crucial turning points in the war.[29] If Germany had gained air superiority over England, Adolf Hitler might have launched Operation Sea Lion, an amphibious and airborne invasion of Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz

Quote:
The bombing did not achieve its intended goals of demoralising the British into surrender or significantly damaging their war economy.[7] In fact, the eight months of bombing never seriously hampered British production and the war industries continued to operate and expand.[8] The Blitz did not facilitate Operation Sea Lion, the planned German invasion of Britain. By May 1941, the threat of an invasion of Britain had passed, and Hitler's attention was focused on Operation Barbarossa in the East.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_..._of_El_Alamein

Quote:
By 12 July 1942, after its success at the Battle of Gazala, the Panzer Army Africa (Panzerarmee Afrika), composed of German and Italian infantry and mechanized units under Field Marshal Erwin Rommel, had struck deep into Egypt, threatening the British Empire's control of the Suez Canal. General Auchinleck withdrew the Eighth Army to within 50 mi (80 km) of Alexandria to a point where the Qattara Depression came to within 40 mi (64 km) of El Alamein on the coast. This gave the defenders a relatively short front to defend and secure flanks, because tanks could not traverse the Depression. Here, in early July, the Axis advance was halted in the First Battle of El Alamein.

Eighth Army counter-offensives during July were unsuccessful, as Rommel dug in to allow his exhausted troops to regroup. At the end of July, Auchinleck called off all offensive action with a view to rebuilding the army’s strength. Faced with overextended supply lines and a relative lack of reinforcements, and well aware of massive allied reinforcements in men and material on the way, Rommel decided to strike the Allies while their build-up was incomplete. The two armoured divisions of Afrika Korps and a force made up of the reconnaissance units of Panzer Army Africa spearheaded the attack but, on 30 August 1942, the Allies stopped them at Alam el Halfa ridge and Point 102. The attack failed in this second battle at the Alamein line, better known as the Battle of Alam el Halfa
considering they had a far bigger army than us they really should have pissed all over us. but they couldn't. survival of the fittest dude.

Last edited by is all mememememe with me; 10-07-2011 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Wait denmark taxes you for being fat? What the hell kind of democracy is that?
no they don't tax you for being fat, its just a tax that is levied on foods that contain the more unhealthier fats and carbohydrates. transfats and that sort of shit. it might be high sugar foods too i think. basically all the lower cost foods that are generally eaten by the poorest people in society. like sausages and burgers, frozen chicken nuggets. that sort of thing. it really is a totally ridiculous liberal fucktard thing to even think of really.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

I know I was joshin.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
yep, im fully aware of that, thanx



i'm assuming you're american(considering your obvious anti-british sentiment), which makes you THE FATTEST country on earth. so whats you're point?





wimpy wow, now there's a blast from the past. i don't think there's been one of them in this country in 20 years, lol. anyway wtf are you on about? of course they would be less free as the choice to exercise or not would be taken away from them. and what about people that already have the exercise that they do already, this would mean they would be forced to give that up and do the government exercise program instead or on top.



you do know i really don't care don't you?? i know full well this country is fucked. it has been for a while and i've been saying that for a good few years now. i said when labour got in in 97 that it would fuck the country and it did. besides after the way this country has treated me lately i have no allegiance to it any more. as far as i'm concerned it can go fuck itself, i'm currently looking at ways to move out, and i don't intend to ever come back. so you really are wasting you're attempted anti-british/pro-american pissing contest with me. in fact the US is my no1 choice if i can find a possible way to go there. but thats another story.



you've still totally missed the point. the point is that most of the public haven't got a clue about what freedom is or what is needed to sort out their country. the same goes where you are and in most countries. its not their fault, well it is for listening to all the bullshit fear-mongering mis-information, but those that peddle it are ultimately to blame for that i guess.




kind of irrelevant really, i'm sure people got the point and i bet the whole idea of those mass exercise regimes were nazi party led in some way. certainly would have been suggested. and with the level of fear people had of them, they would have probably spent an hour a day fingering their own assholes in the local town square if hitler had suggested it. it wasn't a good idea to be seen as a bad nazi back then for germans. the nazi party were likely to accuse you of being a spy or something if you didn't fit in with everyone else. reminds you a bit of the US govts view on people who don't support the war on terror a bit actually.

oh and have you seen germans exercising en masse like that before or since the nazi parties rise or fall from power. i haven't, and i think that speaks volumes.

and sweetheart?? ..fucking sweetheart??? ...what are you a fucking faggot???



well obviously fucking not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_..._of_El_Alamein



considering they had a far bigger army than us they really should have pissed all over us. but they couldn't. survival of the fittest dude.


This whole post is silly beyond measure man. I'm not american but it wouldn't make a difference if I was. Hell, YOU act more american than most the americans i know, with your crazy ass statements about anything international.


And kid you got your whole shit wrong about the nazis. Though I really don't know if we could expect much difference from a random brit that seems to have been raised in Hillbilly Town, Redneck S. A.

The nazis were voted in power. Democratically. More democratically than any british election in a long ass time. In some towns the government had a close to 99% approval rate. For most of their short lived history weren't forcing the people they considered their citizens to do anything.
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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This whole post is silly beyond measure man. I'm not american but it wouldn't make a difference if I was. Hell, YOU act more american than most the americans i know, with your crazy ass statements about anything international.
why thank you so much, you're too kind

Quote:
And kid you got your whole shit wrong about the nazis. Though I really don't know if we could expect much difference from a random brit that seems to have been raised in Hillbilly Town, Redneck S. A.

The nazis were voted in power. Democratically. More democratically than any british election in a long ass time. In some towns the government had a close to 99% approval rate.
so were a lot of dictators, what's your point?

including:

saddam and his bath party,
robert mugabe
hosne mubarak
ferdinand marcos
the labour party in britain
bush administration in the US

just because they are voted in doesn't mean they can't be an authoritarian regime.

besides we all know that hitler and the nazi parties rise to power was more than dubious, to say the least.

Quote:
For most of their short lived history weren't forcing the people they considered their citizens to do anything.
no course not. its not like they were locking up millions in concentration camps or sending people to their deaths in a huge war or anything, was it?
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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why thank you so much, you're too kind



so were a lot of dictators, what's your point?

including:

saddam and his bath party,
robert mugabe
hosne mubarak
ferdinand marcos
the labour party in britain
bush administration in the US

just because they are voted in doesn't mean they can't be an authoritarian regime.

besides we all know that hitler and the nazi parties rise to power was more than dubious, to say the least.



no course not. its not like they were locking up millions in concentration camps or sending people to their deaths in a huge war or anything, was it?

Disregarding your obnoxious list: what i'm trying to tell you is the way you learned the facts was influenced by who it was that told them to you. You get your ideas from a very specific source, even in modern times our medias are all conglomerates.

You are being told they are dictatorships, but if you don't stop to analyze what was really going on there you will never really know. Taking the word of someone who has particular interest in them being branded a dictatorship is a sure fire way to get it wrong.

Now I wouldn't expect you, with what I've seen so far to digest this easily or even give it any thought. To have you automatically hating and opposing my enemy i need to associate him with everything you associate as negative.

If I'm going to invade Iran and I need your support, I can't be storming the news with bulletins about how well off women in Iran are in comparison to women in other nearby countries, about their position of influence in national cinema, national arts and high government positions. It would at worst elicit sympathy from you and at best not elicit any response. What would make a lot more sense is to pick a negative issue and magnify it ten fold. Now get this mechanism and expand it a million times and you might have an idea of how most of your opinions were formed.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

IIRC, they had compulsory exercise in 1984 (the book, not the year). Scary times we live in...
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
The Battle of Britain has nothing to do with physical fitness, it was about airplane range and Britain fighting over her homeland (which of course is always great in an air battle).

Quote:
Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_..._of_El_Alamein

considering they had a far bigger army than us they really should have pissed all over us. but they couldn't. survival of the fittest dude.
Auctually, the German Afrika Corps was much smaller then the 8th Army, and the Italians had shitty equipment, training, and leadership.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Originally Posted by Oink The Pig View Post
Disregarding your obnoxious list: what i'm trying to tell you is the way you learned the facts was influenced by who it was that told them to you. You get your ideas from a very specific source, even in modern times our medias are all conglomerates.

You are being told they are dictatorships, but if you don't stop to analyze what was really going on there you will never really know. Taking the word of someone who has particular interest in them being branded a dictatorship is a sure fire way to get it wrong.

Now I wouldn't expect you, with what I've seen so far to digest this easily or even give it any thought. To have you automatically hating and opposing my enemy i need to associate him with everything you associate as negative.

If I'm going to invade Iran and I need your support, I can't be storming the news with bulletins about how well off women in Iran are in comparison to women in other nearby countries, about their position of influence in national cinema, national arts and high government positions. It would at worst elicit sympathy from you and at best not elicit any response. What would make a lot more sense is to pick a negative issue and magnify it ten fold. Now get this mechanism and expand it a million times and you might have an idea of how most of your opinions were formed.
wtf are you talking about now? are you seriously suggesting that i get all my info from watching the fucking news or some shit. listen kid(lol), i actually take an interest in history and current affairs and i make up my own mind. you obviously don't know shit about me.

i'm not the one who said that the nazi party were democratically elected in such a way to suggest that it was some completely fair and righteous election and that they acted in a completely democratic way. they didn't, once they were in they ruled with an iron fist. people were regularly shot in the street for opposing them. millions of citizens disappeared. most people feared them and those that survived the war were mostly relieved to see the back of them.

so i don't need you to tell me where i get my info from and to suggest that i'm some kind of sheep. because i have a very good idea whats really going on and it isn't things that often get reported in newspapers and tv.

ok sweetheart?
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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The Battle of Britain has nothing to do with physical fitness, it was about airplane range and Britain fighting over her homeland (which of course is always great in an air battle).

ever heard of the spirit of the blitz? also if they were so much more fitter they would have easily have been able to land troops who would have been capable of beating us. they didn't land troops because they knew they wasn't up to it. so much for 15 times fitter.

Auctually, the German Afrika Corps was much smaller then the 8th Army, and the Italians had shitty equipment, training, and leadership.
they had a far bigger army than us, it was up to them where they applied them. besides if the germans were 15 times more physically fit than us they would have only needed 1/15 of the men we had to match us.they had more than that and they still didnt. but the biggest factor that won in north africa was the troops ability to deal with the heat and still manage to fight.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
wtf are you talking about now? are you seriously suggesting that i get all my info from watching the fucking news or some shit. listen kid(lol), i actually take an interest in history and current affairs and i make up my own mind. you obviously don't know shit about me.

i'm not the one who said that the nazi party were democratically elected in such a way to suggest that it was some completely fair and righteous election and that they acted in a completely democratic way. they didn't, once they were in they ruled with an iron fist. people were regularly shot in the street for opposing them. millions of citizens disappeared. most people feared them and those that survived the war were mostly relieved to see the back of them.

so i don't need you to tell me where i get my info from and to suggest that i'm some kind of sheep. because i have a very good idea whats really going on and it isn't things that often get reported in newspapers and tv.

ok sweetheart?

Do you think the people that you view as sheep would identify themselves as such upon being questioned? Or would they defend their individuality and originality of thought to their very last grasp? How can you know you are not sheep yourself? How can I?


That said, let's hear it. Tell me all about how they were not elected in a completely democratic way, and about how german people did not wish the party to be in power and were regularly forced to do things they dislike. Now, having been elected on a platform that clearly stated how they viewed jewish people and wanted to stop them from "leeching" off of germany, how can are they being hypocritical or bigots when they proceed to do exactly what they promissed to?

I'm very willing to see the evidence, so long as it's not obviously produced and researched by their enemies. To my understanding the nazi records state that german population was extremely happy with the party up until the start of the war, nonetheless approval ratings continued to be high.

For the record, i don't like the nazi party or what it did anymore than you do, and am just as glad as you are that the allies won that war. If there was some sort of nazi revival today I would be the first to enlist to fight against them.That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the fact that the nazis honestly had what they believed to be their societies best interests in mind and were, towards who they considered to be their society (which was pretty much all of germany except jews, gypsies and other minorities), a lot more about family and culture than they were about violence or hate. Yes, they were evil beyond measure, but not upon their own people, and I don't believe their own people feared them.


Do you agree with gun control by the state? How do you feel about the fact that nazi germany was the first to implement it on a full blown scale? What do you have to say about the fact that as far as general citizen safety nazi germany was the safest society in the world ever?
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Last edited by Oink The Pig; 10-08-2011 at 02:45 AM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Originally Posted by is all mememememe with me View Post
they had a far bigger army than us, it was up to them where they applied them.
They had a war in Russia to fight. Which mattered far more to the conduct of the war then anything Britian did. England was an auxulary power compared to the USA and USSR.

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besides if the germans were 15 times more physically fit than us they would have only needed 1/15 of the men we had to match us.they had more than that and they still didnt.
I never said the Germans were "15 times more physically fit than us". They just had better training, equipment, leadership, and doctrine.

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but the biggest factor that won in north africa was the troops ability to deal with the heat and still manage to fight.
No, the biggest factor was the ability to ferry supplies across to each sides troops. England still had the outpost of Malta, so they could harras supply lines to Axis forces in Africa.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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besides if the germans were 15 times more physically fit than us they would have only needed 1/15 of the men we had to match us.
That's the most idiotic statement in the past few months here and looking at your competition i have to say that's quite an achievement.

Aside from the fact that fitness is far from decisive in direct gunfire combat, i was talking about german society as a whole, that includes non-military members. Of course 15 is completely arbitrary, this things could hardly be measured with proper data - let alone otherwise. But everything indicates that while nazi germany proceeded towards a much more fit and health-conscious society, there was no difference in the same aspect of british society for the same time period
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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Originally Posted by Oink The Pig View Post
Do you think the people that you view as sheep would identify themselves as such upon being questioned? Or would they defend their individuality and originality of thought to their very last grasp? How can you know you are not sheep yourself? How can I?
i can know im not a sheep and you can know whether or not you are, simply by whether you question what is presented to you or whether you take it all as gospel. i cant know whether you do that anymore than you can know that i do. which is why you shouldn't be making such suggestions in the first place.

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That said, let's hear it. Tell me all about how they were not elected in a completely democratic way, and about how german people did not wish the party to be in power and were regularly forced to do things they dislike. Now, having been elected on a platform that clearly stated how they viewed jewish people and wanted to stop them from "leeching" off of germany, how can are they being hypocritical or bigots when they proceed to do exactly what they promissed to?
now are you really that stupid that you cant understand that the nazi's rose to power based on lies, propaganda and mis-information. you think a party that violently snuffs out its rivals(who were more popular until this point) are truly democratically elected? do you think after the night of the long knives, in which hitler murdered hundreds of his own party members, that people were going to do anything to be seen defying the reich? the fact is that when hitler(or whoever) suggested that a 'good german' would go out in the morning and do his exercises, no one was going to be seen not doing so? when he suggested that 'good german boys' would join the hitler youth, they all queued up to do so. some were disillusioned, but a lot didn't really want to do so but did it anyway out of fear of what could happen.

Quote:
Do you agree with gun control by the state? How do you feel about the fact that nazi germany was the first to implement it on a full blown scale? What do you have to say about the fact that as far as general citizen safety nazi germany was the safest society in the world ever?
not sure what you mean by 'by state', but i don't actually agree with gun control full stop. i think gun control is only implemented to disarm the population so that the elite can sleep safe at night. personally i wouldn't fear anyone having guns if i had one myself. with everyone having guns the score is even. there is only one class of people in society that gains from dis-arming everyone, and that's those with most to lose. the way i see it, if someone has murderous intent then they are going to murder. gun control only serves to put the victim at a handicap when it comes to effectively defend themselves. but of course members of the elite seem to get gun licenses easily, and funnily enough they all tend to shoot for a hobby so tend to have guns on hand.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:33 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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now are you really that stupid that you cant understand that the nazi's rose to power based on lies, propaganda and mis-information. you think a party that violently snuffs out its rivals(who were more popular until this point) are truly democratically elected? do you think after the night of the long knives, in which hitler murdered hundreds of his own party members, that people were going to do anything to be seen defying the reich? the fact is that when hitler(or whoever) suggested that a 'good german' would go out in the morning and do his exercises, no one was going to be seen not doing so? when he suggested that 'good german boys' would join the hitler youth, they all queued up to do so. some were disillusioned, but a lot didn't really want to do so but did it anyway out of fear of what could happen.
I have a vague suspicion they did not have internet access and their media presence was completely different from ours. I do not think that people in germany were aware of some of the things the party were doing and I do not think they had to be coerced into anything. I'm not saying the nazis wouldn't have coerced the people if they wanted to do - what i'm saying is that they didn't need to. The people gladly helped the regime because they believed in it. They did not do it out of fear.

As for the democracy question, what do you believe it to mean? Surely there were unlawful aspects of the rise to power, such as the burning of the parliament, but they weren't any less democratic because of it. The people in an overwhelming majority supported it - thus it was democratic. Democracy and rule of law are not the same word. As I understand it. If there being an oppressed minority made this false, then alas, anciet greece which had slaves and classes and invented democracy itself would not have been one. But it was.


For example, if I was to ask a wimpies eater like yourself about China i would surely hear a piece on how they have a dictatorship in power and how little freedom they have. Funnily enough, the chinese they consider the government a dictatorship and they are happy with it. Go to china. Ask around. They simply have different views of right and wrong than you and I, and they don't feel the same way we do about their form of government. So why should i take your word on them being oppressed when they themselves will tell me otherwise out of their own personal will without any coercion?
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Last edited by Oink The Pig; 10-08-2011 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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That's the most idiotic statement in the past few months here and looking at your competition i have to say that's quite an achievement.

Aside from the fact that fitness is far from decisive in direct gunfire combat, i was talking about german society as a whole, that includes non-military members. Of course 15 is completely arbitrary, this things could hardly be measured with proper data - let alone otherwise. But everything indicates that while nazi germany proceeded towards a much more fit and health-conscious society, there was no difference in the same aspect of british society for the same time period
obviously you haven't been in any military organization at all, have you? physical fitness is paramount in gun battles. try charging up hill when you're not physically fit. do that after having spent the last 16 hours marching with an 80 kilo kit and 15 kilo weapon in your hand. see how well you fight then.

but you're right, it was an idiotic statement, but i'm talking with an idiot here and some of the things you've said itt are more idiotic. like 15 times fitter for example, which you are now trying to backtrack on. so are all the things you said arbitrary or what?
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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They had a war in Russia to fight. Which mattered far more to the conduct of the war then anything Britian did. England was an auxulary power compared to the USA and USSR.



I never said the Germans were "15 times more physically fit than us". They just had better training, equipment, leadership, and doctrine.



No, the biggest factor was the ability to ferry supplies across to each sides troops. England still had the outpost of Malta, so they could harras supply lines to Axis forces in Africa.
whatever dude, im pretty sure there is another thread for all this talk, its way too off topic itt
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: proof that govts shouldn't rise to public opinion

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I guess it would suck to be someone with a slow metabolism.
Well you can always take up smoking and coffee that's bound to speed up your metabolism
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