so how exactly does keeping consumption use out of the trading pit

[iMagiNation]

and here in NFHC really protect the vendors or the users at all? I mean, it's still fairly fucking obvious. I'm really curious here.

[Piles of Crack]

I think you and I both know that it doesn't.

[TORTILLA]

All i know is that over there at bluelight all hell breaks loose when you use SWIM. Apparently they've come to the conclusion that swim would not hold up in court.

No, I dont believe NFHC really would protect you. If the DEA choose to prosecute you you're gunna need a hell of a lawyer

[iMagiNation]

Originally Posted by TORTILLA

All i know is that over there at bluelight all hell breaks loose when you use SWIM. Apparently they've come to the conclusion that swim would not hold up in court.

No, I dont believe NFHC really would protect you. If the DEA choose to prosecute you you're gunna need a hell of a lawyer

You misunderstood what I meant. SWIM never has and never will protect anyone. Neither will silly code words.

I think you and I both know that it doesn't.

Yeah, exactly, so what really is the point? Either we should come up with a better method or...well, come on here, with more and more products becoming illegal, shit is eventually going to go down. That is, barring the collapse of the American Empire.

[reject]

Originally Posted by TORTILLA

Apparently they've come to the conclusion that swim would not hold up in court.

No shit.

BLers are a bunch of dumbasses. Marginally better than drugs-forum though where SWIM is mandatory. Even if it's just a story about you taking a piss.

[Piles of Crack]

Drugs-forum is where my grandmother would go for drug info. That place is pathetic.

[iMagiNation]

Most major drug forums are full of shit heads with a select few extremely good posters, who then go on to make smaller drug forums that tend not to get a lot of traffic.

[TORTILLA]

Originally Posted by iMagiNation

You misunderstood what I meant. SWIM never has and never will protect anyone. Neither will silly code words.

Ok then you just answered your own question?

because it could be used as your defense in the courts?

[reject]

Originally Posted by TORTILLA

Ok then you just answered your own question?

because it could be used as your defense in the courts?

I think he means whats the point of in the trading pit everything being hypothetical or feeding your plants or whatever, but a few forums down you can freely discuss the drug side of the RC.

[TORTILLA]

oh ok, I dont know I just reread op 5 times. very ambiguous. that or being awake for 26 hours is doin it

[The Duke]

imagination, you get mail from me yet?

[King Owl]

Bluelight is an excellent forum, especially for local discussion and geographically specific information.

[Dose Me]

http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=208993

^ Good thread made by a vendor in Trading Pit on the same subject (sort of). I moved it to BLTC so check it out as well.

[panthrax]

iMaGiNaTiOn, it's just a life-extension policy. Zoklet can last much longer if we try to keep people from vending out in the open, making them follow certain rules, etc. If Zoklet suddenly released those rules, you'd have threads like:

"CRACK COCAINE FOR SALE! FAT, FAT, FAT, CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!"

"i got deeze cheeseburgers mane!"

"PCP SPECIAL SALE!"

"BUY-OUT SPECIAL! METHAMPHETAMINE, BUY ONE, GET ONE FREE!"

And when threads like that started to appear, it would be days before this website was shut down.

That's why.

[Piles of Crack]

If crack was sold on Zoklet this website would cease to exist for the simple reason that everyone would wind up trading in their computers for a 20 piece and wouldn't be able to visit anymore.

[komokazi]

I suck yo dick!

[STD]

It doesn't, it's just a legal thing to give zok some deniability. Exactly the same as using SWIM in Bad Ideas. It's obvious, but it at least gives the site administrators a fallback so they can say "but it was all hypothetical", it wasn't actually *them* who was breaking the law.

[iMagiNation]

Originally Posted by panthrax

iMaGiNaTiOn, it's just a life-extension policy. Zoklet can last much longer if we try to keep people from vending out in the open, making them follow certain rules, etc. If Zoklet suddenly released those rules, you'd have threads like:

"CRACK COCAINE FOR SALE! FAT, FAT, FAT, CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!"

"i got deeze cheeseburgers mane!"

"PCP SPECIAL SALE!"

"BUY-OUT SPECIAL! METHAMPHETAMINE, BUY ONE, GET ONE FREE!"

And when threads like that started to appear, it would be days before this website was shut down.

That's why.

lol, I don't really think you get it. You're talking about selling schedule one drugs, which is illegal no matter how you do it.

The simple fact of the matter is that the DEA and other agencies know what bath salts/plant foods MEANS HUMAN FUCKING CONSUMPTION. It's not hiding a god damn thing.

And then we have a forum just down from the trading pit where we all talk about doing the drugs we just bought from vendors.

How the fuck does that help anything at all?

It doesn't, it's just a legal thing to give zok some deniability. Exactly the same as using SWIM in Bad Ideas. It's obvious, but it at least gives the site administrators a fallback so they can say "but it was all hypothetical", it wasn't actually *them* who was breaking the law.

How is this really a fucking legal thing? Has anyone with any sort of law degree or anything weighed in on this for anyone? SWIM has never and never will protect anyone. Neither will code words.

All I'm trying to say is that this whole thing is a total fucking security blanket that makes us feel somewhat safe while really leaving us very much exposed. We need to do this better, or face the consequences.

[Fractals]

That's what I was saying when they started letting RCs in the TP. Everyone on this website knows that RCs are used to get high, and it's talked about in most forums (including some TP threads). Drug talk isn't just in BLTC, but also TJI, GS, BC, and who know how many other subforums. This isn't even that big of a website. I think it's probably unlikely that they'll prosecute anyone for selling RCs unless some kids end up in the hospital or someone dies, it seems like they usually just wait for it to get banned first. Vendors posting in BLTC doesn't help their case, either. IMO most vendors here could be prosecuted under the analog act. If theres a death involved, I wouldn't be surprised if even the most careful vendor would be found guilty.

[STD]

Originally Posted by iMagiNation

How is this really a fucking legal thing? Has anyone with any sort of law degree or anything weighed in on this for anyone? SWIMas never and never will protect anyone. Neither will code words.

It certainly doesn't protect the users who are using "SWIM". It's like in places where bongs are legal and for sale and they say "for tobacco use only", because tobacco is legal but cannabis is not. Another example, axes are legal, but their manufactures would probably get in a little trouble if they advertised them as "the ultimate killing weapon". As far as protecting the owner of a site, well, I don't really know, like you said it's obvious to everybody what's going on despite being called "SWIM" or labelled "not for human consumption." It is at least slightly less blatant than "I'm gonna rob this bank at this time" or "this is 2C-B, snort it 'til you're dead".

[Fractals]

Originally Posted by STD

It certainly doesn't protect the users who are using "SWIM". It's like in places where bongs are legal and for sale and they say "for tobacco use only", because tobacco is legal but cannabis is not. Another example, axes are legal, but their manufactures would probably get in a little trouble if they advertised them as "the ultimate killing weapon". As far as protecting the owner of a site, well, I don't really know, like you said it's obvious to everybody what's going on despite being called "SWIM" or labelled "not for human consumption." It is at least slightly less blatant than "I'm gonna rob this bank at this time" or "this is 2C-B, snort it 'til you're dead".

Freedom of speech, along with some internet-specific laws, protects the site owners. They provide a service, the content belongs to the users. As long as they take down copyrighted shit when they get a DCMA notice, and cooperate when given a court order for someone's info, they're safe.

[STD]

Originally Posted by Fractals

Freedom of speech, along with some internet-specific laws, protects the site owners. They provide a service, the content belongs to the users. As long as they take down copyrighted shit when they get a DCMA notice, and cooperate when given a court order for someone's info, they're safe.

Yeah I've always wondered about that, although the whole "SWIM" thing and "don't admit to crimes" and "NFHC" stuff seems to be on most sites these days. It's a *fact* that its' useless as far as protecting the person posting it goes, as far as "protecting" the site owner goes, I don't really know, but I recall somebody saying it was to do with deniability for the site owner or maybe it was to do with keeping the server host/service provider happy. I know that Zok was getting complaints from the host of zoklet about links to the "eBay Stealth Guide" being posted here, there was a thread on that a while back (though I guess that would fall under copyright stuff.)

[STD]

Originally Posted by panthrax

iMaGiNaTiOn, it's just a life-extension policy. Zoklet can last much longer if we try to keep people from vending out in the open, making them follow certain rules, etc. If Zoklet suddenly released those rules, you'd have threads like:

"CRACK COCAINE FOR SALE! FAT, FAT, FAT, CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!"

"i got deeze cheeseburgers mane!"

"PCP SPECIAL SALE!"

"BUY-OUT SPECIAL! METHAMPHETAMINE, BUY ONE, GET ONE FREE!"

And when threads like that started to appear, it would be days before this website was shut down.

That's why.

^^^^ Also, what panthrax said.

[iMagiNation]

Oh, awesome. So it's all about keeping zok safe. fuck this.

[Obbe]

How about using the PM system and not talking about this stuff out in the open at all?l

[Oct]

Anyone know where i can get my hands on a shit load of benzocaine...just curious. PM with price

[kingOfCrash]

Originally Posted by iMagiNation

and here in NFHC really protect the vendors or the users at all? I mean, it's still fairly fucking obvious. I'm really curious here.

Currently vending etizolam, an unscheduled drug that is also not covered under the analog act. I stress that is for research purposes only and not for human consumption. So they can't get me for selling any sort of substitute, I hope. (like the guy selling mephedrone/methylone mix got pinned for selling ecstasy)

[panthrax]

You know, this thread has nothing to do with BLTC whatsoever, right?

In fact, it is entirely out of place and there are two other forums it would be better suited in....

[panthrax]

Moving to Support & Suggestions....

[iMagiNation]

Originally Posted by panthrax

You know, this thread has nothing to do with BLTC whatsoever, right?

Um. yes it does, unfortunately. It might not go best in BLTC but it does have something very relevant to do with BLTC - all the talk that can't go on in the trading pit takes place in BLTC.

Currently vending etizolam, an unscheduled drug that is also not covered under the analog act. I stress that is for research purposes only and not for human consumption. So they can't get me for selling any sort of substitute, I hope. (like the guy selling mephedrone/methylone mix got pinned for selling ecstasy)

Sure, you sell something for "research purposes" to user A on this forum. User A gives you a good review in the trading pit and then he goes into BLTC and makes a thread about how fucked up he got. He then orders from you again.

Well guess what? Now there's proof that you're selling shit to people for the sole purpose of GETTING FUCKED UP.

I really don't know why this is so hard to understand.

A few forums down does not a legal boundary make.

[Ph0x]

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up.

Selling RC's is shady enough, having a forum dedicated to getting fuck up ON THE SAME SEVER, that's just foolish.

I think zok has a crack problem, he'll do anything for money anymore.

I know for a fact he's not fucking stupid.

[iMagiNation]

totse and now by default zoklet has always been that really fucking shady bar.

[Dose Me]

So you think I should just shut it all down?

[Haiti's Space Agency]

Originally Posted by Dose Me

So you think I should just shut it all down?

Yes.

[Dose Me]

Originally Posted by a224

Yes.

anyone who's not a stupid troll want to weigh in?

[Ph0x]

If I was your attorney I would suggest that you stop doing it.

[Fractals]

I've always been against it, from the beginning.

[iMagiNation]

Originally Posted by Dose Me

So you think I should just shut it all down?

Not necessarily, but we need to put our heads together here to figure out a better means of protecting ourselves. I think the vendors have been here too long to justify kicking them out, it would seem really paranoid to suddenly flush them all.

[Dose Me]

Ph0x had a good idea earlier and pitched it to me.

Well let's bang our heads together. The current system does not work too well...figures since I had to come up wit and implement it entirely on my own. Administration has never weighed in on their opinion about the matter.

I'm willing to do anything that we can all agree will increase our safety...for vendors and customers. I'm all ears niggas.

[reject]

Private forum.

Have to be granted access, write up a report as to what research you want to do with said chemicals.

Well that's for all the really grey area ones like the 2c's (seriously openly selling 2c-xs? Mention that to BLTC back in 05 or 06 and there'd be riots), mxe, amphet/mandy analogues.

Herbal incense I think should be left fairly open as it is. Well I'm pretty sure about 90% of zoklet has bought from muffins at least once anyway.