Fuck warm up.

[Really Awesome Nickname]

I think it was both running for warm up and vacations. After three months of not training I am totally fucked.

I got to the gym some 15 minutes before it opened, so I ran around the football field for some 10 minutes or less. Fuck running. Somewhere in the middle of my race, I just felt like I was high as fuck. That never happens when I go biking. Consider my bike rolls are of about 30 miles.

Anyway, so I finally go in the gym to hit the weights and I feel kind of dizzy. By the second round, I just wasnt able to push the damn bar at bench press over the 4th rep, or lift the dumpbells more than 9 times without getting it all wrong.

Before, I rarely even did any warm up, and if I did, I used the spinners, and when I hit the weights, I was like an angry god.

Running just fucked me up and I couldnt lift more weight than a fucking fag.

Fuck running, fuck 3 months of being bored as shit, not training and barely getting any sleep. It fucking wore me out.

Ill have to eat drums of fish and meat and drink gallons of milk so I get back all the material I lost all those sleepless nights.

[janitor/rapist]

That just shows you what kind of shape your cardio is in...

[Kim Jong Il]

Warm-ups are a complete waste of time/energy.

[Irukanji]

^ Idiot

Warms ups help stretch/prepare you muscles for lifting. No point forcing your heart to go from 60bpm to 160bpm in a few seconds.

Get a bike and ride for 5-10 minutes, punch a bag, whatever.

But then again, it's your heart, not mine.

[Kim Jong Il]

Warms ups help stretch/prepare you muscles for lifting.

No they do not.

[Irukanji]

Originally Posted by Kim Jong Il

No they do not.

Trust me, they do. Your probably some computer nerd that's never lifted in your life, or your one of those faggot trolls that followed.

There is a noticeable difference between when you warm up and you dont. The few times i havent warmed up, i messed up my lower back. If i warm up, it doesnt happen. Explain that.

[Kim Jong Il]

Perhaps you're genetic garbage?

[Anima Mundi]

Hey, no need to insult the genetic garbage. Cite studies shown where stretching does nothing. I don't find static stretching to be helpful, though.

[Kim Jong Il]

The question isn't if there are studies supporting the idea of stretching as useless, but if there are any that support as useful it for weight training period, and what constitutes the definition of a "warm-up" in reality.

The distinction between what is a warm-up for anaerobic training and what is a warm-up for aerobic training has to be highlighted. The example of a "warm-up" cited by the OP might be great for cross country or cycling but it's detrimental for weight training, particularly strength training. The goal of a "warm up" for strength should be to excite the nervous system and flush the muscles with the minimal amount of blood necessary for that activity, which is far less than hypertrophy/bodybuilding/endurance training with weights (in which a "pump" is desired). Running, cycling and other activities aerobic in nature achieve the inverse affect desired for strength training.

A more suitable warm-up for weight training would be some dynamic stretches, light bounding or jumping exercises or simply a higher number of repetitions of a the first exercise of the routine with very little loading. It's a very common fallacy in the west that a "warm-up" must be achieved by stretching or calisthenics or running and stationary cycling. The goal of a warm-up is to elevate the temperature of the muscles as well as stimulate the cardiopulmonary and nervous system, that can be accomplished by taking a hot shower.

But even that is a waste of time and energy. The effects of a "warm-up" are achieved by starting with a light weight and progressively adding weight to the bar until you get to the work load of the day.

As for this nonsense about the heart rate being elevated quickly, I'm not even going to bother.

[a334jv2df]

Kim Jong Il is a troll. He posts half truths then manipulates his words after an argument has begun. Warm-up's aren't useless, however they need to fit the type of exercise that should be done. Static stretching will decrease you're 1RM, but this doesn't mean you should be jumping straight into your working squat without "warming-up". A light run and dynamic stretching (plyometrics work) will suffice

[Kim Jong Il]

Nice coming from the jackass who tried to edit the post in which he claimed strength isn't force in an attempt to remove his own dumb ass commentary. Dynamic stretching isn't plyometrics. Running is useless.

[Deadrix]

I know my opinion in this matter mean fuck all to you TCStyle lol but Kim Jong does talk sense. Studies shows, not me, studies show that warming up before lifting is a definete benefit to the trainee.

Take Powerlifter as an example. For one of them to reach their 1RM they do not sit down load 800lb on a bar and bench it. Thats a chest tear waiting to happen. Before they even think of attempting such a huge weight they would load the bar gradually with a few single and double reps preparing the muscle and joints for the strain that is to come.

How does this apply to the average joe lifter? Well basically its exactlly the same principle. If Joe Bloggs struggles to bench 220 x 5 then you do not take him to the bench first exercise and load 220 and pray to the lord he makes it past 3.You gradually warm up, it just makes sense.

So basically to answer the initial question, dont run before weights, start with low weights and high reps for the first exercise you were intending to do and get your shit together to beat the last effort you made at that exercise lol.

[Kim Jong Il]

Originally Posted by Deadrix

I know my opinion in this matter mean fuck all to you TCStyle lol but Kim Jong does talk sense. Studies shows, not me, studies show that warming up before lifting is a definete benefit to the trainee.

Take Powerlifter as an example. For one of them to reach their 1RM they do not sit down load 800lb on a bar and bench it. Thats a chest tear waiting to happen. Before they even think of attempting such a huge weight they would load the bar gradually with a few single and double reps preparing the muscle and joints for the strain that is to come.

How does this apply to the average joe lifter? Well basically its exactlly the same principle. If Joe Bloggs struggles to bench 220 x 5 then you do not take him to the bench first exercise and load 220 and pray to the lord he makes it past 3.You gradually warm up, it just makes sense.

So basically to answer the initial question, dont run before weights, start with low weights and high reps for the first exercise you were intending to do and get your shit together to beat the last effort you made at that exercise lol.

Repped.

[EllisD]

become flexible
half you probably dont stretch because you physically cant...
practice it
stretch daily

[Anima Mundi]

Read the thread, Ellis.

[EllisD]

I did read it
and its about warming up and stretching
so I put my 2 words into it

[Anima Mundi]

No, you read the title. Nobody was saying they weren't flexible, we were arguing whether or not there is a point to stretching at all.

[Thought Riot]

Originally Posted by TCStyle

dynamic stretching (plyometrics work) will suffice

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Plyometrics is a type of exercise training designed to produce fast, powerful movements, and improve the functions of the nervous system, generally for the purpose of improving performance in a specific sport. Plyometric movements, in which a muscle is loaded and then contracted in rapid sequence, use the strength, elasticity and innervation of muscle and as it was supposed to be surrounding tissues to jump higher, run faster, throw farther, or hit harder, depending on the desired training goal. Plyometrics is used to increase the speed or force of muscular contractions, often with the goal of increasing the height of a jump or the speed of a punch or throw

Dynamic stretching is stuff like the Scorpian, leg swings, the calf walking thing, stuff like that.

I'd say that dynamic stretching and warm-up reps would be a good warm-up. You really have to do warm-up reps. Without them, my body is tight and the motion seems way too difficult with heavy weight.

However, I still do static stretching post workout. Any benefit to this?

[Kim Jong Il]

No static stretching is totally worthless for that.

[HLC]

Yeah, stretching pre-event has really fallen into disfavor these days,
But, if you ever hope to go all Chuck Norris on someone ...

http://www.chucknorris.com/images/pr...s/karate-6.jpg

You'd better be stretching a few times a day, maybe for years.
And mostly that means static stretching or the more advanced PNF method.
And post workout is the best time to stretch for flexibility gains.

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/...etching_4.html

Stretching can definitely have a place in creating a functional body, but it also depends on what you want to do.

[a334jv2df]

Plyometrics can be a type of dynamic stretching. I find that jumping drills not only warm my body up but also loosens me up for nice squats. Static stretching is useless for any type of weightlifting imo.

Kim Jong Il I may not be an expert on the matter of physics. However the argument was over the validity of starting strength and I clearly showed you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

But the easiest way to solve this would be to post videos of us competing so...

[Kim Jong Il]

LOL, I will outlift your faggoty ass any day.

[a334jv2df]

Very doubtful

[Kim Jong Il]

Cute.

[Deadrix]

Originally Posted by Johnathon Doerty

No, you read the title. Nobody was saying they weren't flexible, we were arguing whether or not there is a point to stretching at all.

to reffer to this post as mine didnt really make a point with regards to stretching

There is definite benefits to stretching, just within the right enviroment. Ballistic, Dynamic, Plyometrics, Static stretching all have their place within sports/lesuire training, just has to be the right setting for it.

There are methods out there that use extreme stretching at the end of each bodypart to allow more muscle expansion, but lets save that for a different thread.

[EllisD]

lol well
I said stretch daily
so that kinda makes a point saying its useful....ok
stretch daily because its not useful!

[Kim Jong Il]

Just shut the fuck up already.

[EllisD]

Ok jose
im done proving my point

[Carbonbased]

EllisD, I haven't seen a single article saying that static stretching and warming up reduce injury or improve sports performance (if you find one post it). However stretching does increase ones range of motion over time this can be beneficial because it can widen the range over witch maximum force can be applied to an exercise. But for most lifters unless their ROM is limiting their ability to perform an exercise this stretching is not very beneficial.

Lt Anger, yea I feel ya, coming off a long break and losing a whole bunch of strength is a bitch, but so’s life so suck it up. I’d recommend sticking to the cardio at least until you can run for 20 min without getting winded, doing so may not help you max heavier but a healthy cardiovascular system can help you to recover more between workouts.

So warming up (except for dynamic warmups perhaps) don’t really do anything substantial, but I run on the treadmill to warm up any way. Because really its kinda a ritual for me and a warm up for my brain, it gives me time to just space out and think I’m at the gym, Im here to lift heavy shit no other reason.

[P_R_Deltoid]

Warm up implies that you arn't working too hard, just enough to tell you body you're ready to do some serious shit, like lifting.

You should probably be "jogging" instead of "running" for a warm up.

[Irukanji]

And if there was no point warming up, then why does EVERY single sporting team around the world these days warm up before a match?

[Anima Mundi]

Originally Posted by wolfy_9005

And if there was no point warming up, then why does EVERY single sporting team around the world these days warm up before a match?

Why did everyone believe the world was flat? Just because everyone thinks something doesn't make it the truth.

[HLC]

I don't recall seeing logical arguments anywhere that warming up is deleterious or worthless before a sporting event or vigorous exercise in general.
for instance, no professional baseball pitcher is going to take the mound and start throwing heat without a proper warmup.
I can tell you from experience how that hurts.
I have a history of playing baseball. I don't anymore, but do play tennis instead. I recall a few years ago walking down the street near a park when a foul ball landed near me. "Hey mister, could you throw the ball back"?
Well, with zero warmup I chucked it about as far as I could throw it and , oh my god, that hurt. I thought to myself, what a stupid thing to do... a maximal throw with zero warmup. I don't make that mistake anymore.

Warming up is mostly about raising your core temp, and yes, a visit to a sauna could be substituted.
It's harder to raise your core temp than say your shoulder temp, so if your core is hot, your peripheral muscles will be warm too.
The question about warming up seems to be if static stretching (e.g. a calf stretch, hamstring stretch etc.) does anything beneficial before events (i.e. injury prevention), which is presently shadowed by doubt, or does static stretching even result in lessened performance? Which seems true.
There isn't a huge amount of data about stretching and injury prevention, as I recall.
IIRC, there's been only like 2 major studies, one by the U.S. army where they had soldiers doing PT either with or without stretching.
The injury rates were similar in either group.
But, 2 studies isn't a lot, so there's still room for doubt, IMO.
.
.

[SilkySmooth]

Originally Posted by Johnathon Doerty

Cite studies shown where stretching does nothing.

http://www.dr-moosburger.at/pub/pub102.pdf Here's a meta-analysis from 2004 on stretching & injury. They conclude that, "there is not sufficient evidence to endorse or discontinue routine stretching before or after exercise." They go into more detail in the discussion section.

[Kim Jong Il]

HLC, you most likely got injured because you're a crusty fuck not because you didn't warm up.

All international sports teams warm up pre-comp? That's neat, did you confirm that with them yourself? It doesn't matter what soccer players or basketball players do; their coaches know jack shit. I will attest that I have seen footage of national and international weightlifters in the training hall, as well as competition warmup rooms and none of them do warm-ups of the sort. Static stretching, running and cycling are the exact opposite of what you're doing when lifting and engaging in such beforehand only expands energy that could have been used to lift. It also activates muscle fibers that aren't going to be used for lifting, which will only interfere with one's performance when lifting. It is not in the nature of organisms to do cardio or stretching before hunting nor do they have the luxury of getting to do some cycling before they evade predators. The "warm-up" in nature for anaerobic activities occurs via fast muscle contractions and high-intensity (high BPM) stimulation not fucking low-intensity aerobics. If someone doesn't want to accept common sense because of their own misunderstanding of their personal experiences or because some faggot ass professor promotes this nonsense fuck it; there is absolutely nothing to gain and energy to lose in talking to you.

[HLC]

Originally Posted by Kim Jong Il

Blah , Blah
All international sports teams warm up pre-comp .. blah , blah ...

You must not play sports.
For all we know, you may not even lift, though you pretend to.
You're probably sitting in a wheel chair typing out your bitterness with the tip of your nose on the keyboard.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Bless your little heart for trying.

I will stand by my assertion that no professional baseball pitcher or tennis player is going to walk out and throw/serve at 100% without warming up, typically using the motions at lower, then medium and finally high level. If your above rant was directed to me, I didn't say they were going to run or cycle, do aerobics or stretch , though they might.
Please have the reader who reads to you pronounce their words more clearly.

[Kim Jong Il]

I will stand by my assertion that no professional baseball pitcher or tennis player is going to walk out and throw/serve at 100% without warming up, typically using the motions at lower, then medium and finally high level.

Thanks for reiterating my point.

[HLC]

Originally Posted by Kim Jong Il

Thanks for reiterating my point.

I agree with you on that one, if you're agreeing warm-ups are important for any sporting event.
Not stretching, mind you, as I know you abhor stretching.

Pro tennis players take the court with their opponents before the match.
They start off warming up by hitting some ground strokes for a couple of minutes, then some volleys, then some overheads and finally some serves.
Then the ref calls for the match to start.
I believe they're allowed up to 15 minutes for the warm-up.

Being warm is so key to a baseball pitcher, they're the only players who will don a jacket if they get on base, in order to keep their throwing arm warm while they run the bases.

[Irukanji]

And cold muscles are more likely to cramp, pull, etc, thus injury.

If warm ups had no obvious effect's, then why does nearly every sporting team in the world do it? Even people who play ping-pong do it. And it helps get the adrenalin pumping.

Ive done my share of weightlifting, and everyone in that room warmed up before going out there. They used a bar, then slowly added weight until they reached their starting weight(3-4 lifts total). Not only does this warm and work the muscles to be used, it helps you get your technique right for the day, and see wether you have to change something to ensure a correct lift. Remember, at the competition level, you get 3 tries per lift, or 6 total. 3 snatch, 3 clean and jerk. Every single weightlifter i know would never, ever just walk up to the bar and lift it at max weight, or even at their lowest comp weight, without first warming up.

Define warm up, do you mean practicing the move required, or running around/cycling to get the same temperture, etc?

[Kim Jong Il]

Once again, you fucking idiots; you completely disregard everything I have written here and continue to unleash upon this forum your pointless drivel. The process of warming up and getting the muscles warm for high-intensity weight training or some other anaerobic activity is not through the conventional means of jogging, aerobics, or stretching.

Originally Posted by Kim Jong Il

All international sports teams warm up pre-comp? That's neat, did you confirm that with them yourself? It doesn't matter what soccer players or basketball players do; their coaches know jack shit. I will attest that I have seen footage of national and international weightlifters in the training hall, as well as competition warmup rooms and none of them do warm-ups of the sort. Static stretching, running and cycling are the exact opposite of what you're doing when lifting and engaging in such beforehand only expands energy that could have been used to lift. It also activates muscle fibers that aren't going to be used for lifting, which will only interfere with one's performance when lifting. It is not in the nature of organisms to do cardio or stretching before hunting nor do they have the luxury of getting to do some cycling before they evade predators. The "warm-up" in nature for anaerobic activities occurs via fast muscle contractions and high-intensity (high BPM) stimulation not fucking low-intensity aerobics. If someone doesn't want to accept common sense because of their own misunderstanding of their personal experiences or because some faggot ass professor promotes this nonsense fuck it; there is absolutely nothing to gain and energy to lose in talking to you.

And no, warming up does not get adrenaline pumping.