Someone come and lay down the low down on the stock market. no penny stock scammers

[L33tz]

and no penny stock pump and dump fuckers plz

[Morb]

The only chance you have at actually making consistent money trading stocks (or futures, or forex, or options) is to learn from the pros, and to have the right attitude (which is difficult to achieve, the attitude that makes a success in many other areas of life does NOT apply to trading). There are good trading colleges you can attend for a few thousand dollars, and many more ways to get the real deal when it comes to trading, but more than most other things you might want to achieve in life, it requires real dedication.

Over 95% of traders fail, and they fail mostly because they have a combination of a bad trading plan with not enough money to last them long enough to improve (so they end up blowing out their accounts), and a wrong trading attitude.

I know that's vague, but it's the most valuable starting info for trading any regular person could have. Trading isn't for everyone, and most people fail at it even when they want more than anything for it to work. Wanting it to work and doing what it takes are two really different things in trading. Most people who end up being successful traders spend at least a few years losing money until they bottom out and start a curve upwards towards making consistent returns with minimal losses. Most people don't have the stomach, persistence, and/or aptitude for it.

However, if you can make it work... I don't know of any better way to make a living.

[Lady Julily]

My stepfather runs a small business doing trades for people who cannot do so for themselves. He spent decades working on his system to get it to the profitable and worthwhile point that it is now. Have you considered letting someone like this, with experience, do your trading for you?

[Tachosomoza]

It's emotionally driven by fear, rumors and lies. The only way to be 100% sure is to have a line somewhere. Otherwise, you're just pissing in the wind.

[chilldo]

alot of people would say that US stocks are the place to be currently.

risks: Europe's economic woes could temporarily setback the stock market.

other than that most people would agree the US is on a road to recovery.

current situation: stocks have rallied quite a bit recently, some say the markets are due for a correction (a temporary drop of 5-10%) which would present a nice buying opportunity. some say the rally isnt finished yet and itll go up further from here.

just a few possible investing ideas:

• buy really broad, general ETFs (exchange traded funds) in even intervals (eg once every 2 months) such as DIA, SPY, QQQ. this is what warren buffet recommends that the average person who doesnt want to commit too much time to the markets should do
• some say that cyclical stocks are cheap right now, (this may or may not be true) financials, technology, healthcare, materials
• buy good quality blue chip stocks for the long term (although some say there might be a move away from dividend paying blue chips as the economy recovers) such as KO, PG, JNJ etc

some stocks i like ATM:
WMT (walmart) and V (visa), not currently holding but plan on buying within the next couple weeks/months (waiting for more evidence of a pull back or continuation)

and of course, as always, do your own research before going with any idea that anybody suggests

[chilldo]

also i agree that investing is the way to go, not trading

when you invest, you form an objective opinion on a company based on its ability to deliver value , we're talking about numbers (its earnings, balance sheets etc) and numbers dont lie

when you make a speculative bet (ie buying gold, trading a stock short term) youre placing a bet based on your subjective opinion that for example, gold or oil will rise because of tensions with the middle east.

investing is slow and steady whereas trading for the most part is like playing proline (unless youre a professional trader)

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

It's emotionally driven by fear, rumors and lies. The only way to be 100% sure is to have a line somewhere. Otherwise, you're just pissing in the wind.

fuck if i knew a company was about to file for bankruptcy.

the money that could be made.....

[Morb]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

It's emotionally driven by fear, rumors and lies. The only way to be 100% sure is to have a line somewhere. Otherwise, you're just pissing in the wind.

No, you're not necessarily pissing in the wind. You don't need to be 100% sure. All you need is an edge.

If you can formulate a system that pays you better when you're right on a coin flip than what you lose when you're wrong, you'll get rich betting on coin flips if you do it enough.

There are people who have made millions trading, and they're only right maybe 30-40% of the time. It's just that when they're right, it more than covers their losses.

Most people who go into trading are looking for that system that works 100% of the time, and that's part of the reason they fail. They have unrealistic and uninformed expectations and the wrong attitude. Casinos make millions by having only a 1-2% edge, and trading correctly can increase your odds much more than you'll ever get in any casino.

Originally Posted by chilldo

also i agree that investing is the way to go, not trading

when you invest, you form an objective opinion on a company based on its ability to deliver value , we're talking about numbers (its earnings, balance sheets etc) and numbers dont lie

when you make a speculative bet (ie buying gold, trading a stock short term) youre placing a bet based on your subjective opinion that for example, gold or oil will rise because of tensions with the middle east.

investing is slow and steady whereas trading for the most part is like playing proline (unless youre a professional trader)

I disagree about investing (in fact, as the world increasingly grows more fast-paced, interconnected, and unpredictable, investing grows more into a dinosaur model of making money). Investing is easy, and, like most things that seem too easy and good to be true, investing usually is. There are countless people who invested in things in the late 90s who are still waiting for their investments to get back to break-even 15 years later, and that's not counting inflation. Investing is not what it once was.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Morb

No, you're not necessarily pissing in the wind. You don't need to be 100% sure. All you need is an edge.

If you can formulate a system that pays you better when you're right on a coin flip than what you lose when you're wrong, you'll get rich betting on coin flips if you do it enough.

There are people who have made millions trading, and they're only right maybe 30-40% of the time. It's just that when they're right, it more than covers their losses.

Most people who go into trading are looking for that system that works 100% of the time, and that's part of the reason they fail. They have unrealistic and uninformed expectations and the wrong attitude. Casinos make millions by having only a 1-2% edge, and trading correctly can increase your odds much more than you'll ever get in any casino.



I disagree about investing (in fact, as the world increasingly grows more fast-paced, interconnected, and unpredictable, investing grows more into a dinosaur model of making money). Investing is easy, and, like most things that seem too easy and good to be true, investing usually is. There are countless people who invested in things in the late 90s who are still waiting for their investments to get back to break-even 15 years later, and that's not counting inflation. Investing is not what it once was.

how can i even get started. i was thinking about looking into penny stocks. investing a few hundred.

[Morb]

Originally Posted by L33tz

how can i even get started. i was thinking about looking into penny stocks. investing a few hundred.

I would advise spending a lot of time educating yourself about trading and looking into how to get good advice from people who know what they're doing and have proven records. After you feel like you have a good base to work from, you'll need to have a large account (at least several tens of thousands of dollars) to trade with and learn with, knowing that you'll probably lose it all before you can start actually making money.

That sounds harsh and difficult, but, considering how much time, money, and effort most people put into college to get a job that won't ever pay them near what trading can, it's actually one of the easiest ways to get rich that there is. It's worth all the time, effort, money, and dedication that is required.

The bottom line is that no one should look to make any money trading for at least two to three years. You have to make it your career, it can't be a hobby. There's probably no hobby that takes more money from more people than trading (and that's how successful traders make theirs, they wait for fools who don't know how to trade to make trades, and they take their money).

Personally, I wouldn't invest in any penny stocks. There are reasons why people are only willing to buy certain stocks for pennies a share. Putting a few hundred dollars into a penny stock is like playing the lottery; you'll probably lose all your money when the company in question goes out of business, or you might make several thousand if it turns out to be one of those rare companies that suddenly explodes out of nowhere. If you want to do that, the best advice I've heard is to look for small, unknown tech companies who might be in position to create something big that shoots them into the big leagues. Those are the penny stocks that can increase several thousand percent in a few days.

But that's just gambling, in my opinion. Better to spend that money learning how to trade correctly if you're gonna put any money into the markets at all.

[southernsun]

@ Morb, what do you trade?

[Morb]

Originally Posted by _southernsun

@ Morb, what do you trade?

Mostly equities right now, gonna start futures soon, with the idea of ultimately getting into options mainly (still trying to learn enough about that). Not sure about forex yet.

[Lady Julily]

Morb, are you sure you're not my step dad?

[trolly]

Honestly - don't do stock trading - that's what people think is an easy way to make money online - but to be honest - you can't get a good advantage and you lack control.

It's better to invest your money into building a business.

I think you have the critical thinking skills and analytical abilities to make that succeed far in the long run.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by trolly

Honestly - don't do stock trading - that's what people think is an easy way to make money online - but to be honest - you can't get a good advantage and you lack control.

It's better to invest your money into building a business.

I think you have the critical thinking skills and analytical abilities to make that succeed far in the long run.

Leetz?

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

Leetz?

no that's not me

[trolly]

Originally Posted by L33tz

no that's not me

Lawl

[Akagi]

Originally Posted by chilldo

alot of people would say that US stocks are the place to be currently.

Many people were investing under the idea that the market will always go up. Their retirements, portfolios, savings, et al. were in there under that assumption.

Then we look at the DOW over the last 5 years and see that those people lost money and would have made out like bandits if they just bought a bunch of gold & buried it in their back yard.

Stacking metals makes this whole investing for the long haul thing a breeze. You just buy silver until you run out of places to put it, the buy gold. Stack, don't look back, and laugh as you watch people trying to catch a falling knife in the market and pulling their hair out as it plunges with the economy and your metals go apeshit. You never have to worry about companies going belly-up and the price hitting zero.

[Tachosomoza]

Originally Posted by Akagi

Many people were investing under the idea that the market will always go up. Their retirements, portfolios, savings, et al. were in there under that assumption.

Then we look at the DOW over the last 5 years and see that those people lost money and would have made out like bandits if they just bought a bunch of gold & buried it in their back yard.

.

Ever heard of short selling? People got rich after Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers collapsed under their own weight.

[roasted]

Originally Posted by trolly

Honestly - don't do stock trading - that's what people think is an easy way to make money online - but to be honest - you can't get a good advantage and you lack control.

It's better to invest your money into building a business.

I think you have the critical thinking skills and analytical abilities to make that succeed far in the long run.

that is dumb advice. The odds of a small business lasting more than 10 years is like 1% or some stupidly small percentage. Most small businesses are started at the personal financial expense of the proprietor. After that, most struggle just to keep their doors open at the emotional expense of the proprietor.

The stock market has an historical average return of 10%(+/- a few percent). Will this make you wealthy overnight? No. Will it facilitate a long term investing plan? Yes. Will you retire with more money than you invested? The odds highly indicate yes.

OP, I would look at blue chip stocks and mutual funds comprised of them. If you are looking for a get-rich-quick scheme, go to a casino and bet the farm on 17-black (its always a winner at the roulette table)

[roasted]

Originally Posted by Akagi

Many people were investing under the idea that the market will always go up. Their retirements, portfolios, savings, et al. were in there under that assumption.

Then we look at the DOW over the last 5 years and see that those people lost money and would have made out like bandits if they just bought a bunch of gold & buried it in their back yard.

Stacking metals makes this whole investing for the long haul thing a breeze. You just buy silver until you run out of places to put it, the buy gold. Stack, don't look back, and laugh as you watch people trying to catch a falling knife in the market and pulling their hair out as it plunges with the economy and your metals go apeshit. You never have to worry about companies going belly-up and the price hitting zero.

Dont listen to this. Long-term, precious metals are a stupid investment. They have no inherent value. Gold is nothing more than 20th and 21st century Tulip Mania.

[Akagi]

Originally Posted by roasted

Dont listen to this. Long-term, precious metals are a stupid investment.

Yeah, you would have only quadrupled your money in the last 6 years or so. Such a terrible investment.

You know of anything safe you can invest in today that wil yield 400% returns in around half a decade?

They have no inherent value.

5,000 years of history would beg to differ.

What is the inherent value of a share of Enron?

[Tachosomoza]

Nothing has inherent value. Only what we think does, does.

[Akagi]

Originally Posted by roasted

The stock market has an historical average return of 10%(+/- a few percent). Will this make you wealthy overnight? No. Will it facilitate a long term investing plan? Yes. Will you retire with more money than you invested? The odds highly indicate yes.

It's probably closer to 8%, but that depends on what you invest in and when you invested.

The equity premium is around 5.5%

Will that money buy less when you got to cash out and retire than it would if you spent it all today? It very well could. It's important to filter market gains through the perspective of dollar devaluation/what that money will buy. When the dollar goes down, it costs more of them to purchase the same share of stock.

[reggie_love]

People are way too harsh about the stock market in this thread (you have to remember Zoklet is full of survivalists and fringe people who don't trust society, I am one too but dabbling in conformity can work for you). Yes, it's true: don't bother speculating/day trading, that is a full time job and not really practical for the little guy with no "ins". However, making modest gains on the stock market through sensible long term investments is totally doable and should be encouraged. On the simplest level, it isn't rocket science. Buy and hold stock that seems valuable (aka, a legitimate company) whose stock price seems undervalued. This is actually not too hard because of the recession, chances are if you can find a big corporation that probably won't be going under anytime soon, it will be priced at an historical low and you can snap it up and when things recover so will the stock price.

Sure, there could be a crisis and economy collapses and everything but it's not like you were going to keep your money in that scenario anyway.

The trick is to use nonessential money, and don't get too geared for a quick gain. Take your extra money (don't have extra money? don't invest until you save some more) and spread it out on some investments and just wait. Have the mindset that you could kiss all that money goodbye, so you don't get jumpy. Don't be betting your insulin money or blowing your chance to pay off your credit card debt or something. Don't expect to be Gordon Gekko overnight, don't panic when you lose a little bit (though don't hang onto a stock that's clearly a loser, either, investing is not a suicide pact) and chances are you will get better returns than leaving that money in a savings account.

Next lesson is the options market, puts, calls, shorts, futures etc. Don't mess around with these if you don't know what you're doing. Some of these can be very good for hedging your bets, though. Right now I have some AAPL (apple) stock and though it's been soaring with all this iPad shit, I can't tell if it's just current market hype or if the stock really will go up in the long run, so I'm considering buying put options on Apple stock (again read up on what this means) to kind of hedge my bets so that I can make money off its current record high stock price should it go down in the future.

Meh, I don't know. I have a small and simple portfolio right now and over two months I've seen an ~8.7% return. It's actually beating the market (performing better than the DJIA and S&P 500) but who knows how long that'll be. I just wanted my unused cash to grow more than it would sitting in a bank where it gets 0.023% interest or so.

Stocks are very volatile though, their prices can change on you quickly, and you have to do your research. If you don't think you'll be good at (or have the time for) getting a feel for market trends and corporate performance, a "safer" bet might be mutual funds and index funds. With these you don't buy a share of a company but you put your money into a huge professionally-collected set of stocks. They match the market, and though the survivalist in me cringes when I say this, the market will probably get better as per historical trends. Index funds might be the way to go, you'll get relatively stable growth that exceeds bank interest.

There's no truly safe investment. No risk = no reward. You should only invest if it beats leaving that money in your bank account/mattress. It's got risks, but I think a lot of people fear the stock market irrationally, and it leads them to keep doing poor-people shit instead of growing their money (or converting money to wealth).

Don't mess around with penny stocks. They are the stock market equivalent of selling Avon, you can technically make money off both those things, and a few reprehensible pieces of shit sometimes do (usually by tricking others) but odds are you'll be scammed out of everything. Also, good luck finding a trading service that will let you "get into" penny stocks as a new customer with a small investment. Chances are you will be treated like a criminal.

Hope some of this is helpful, I don't know your level of knowledge on the subject so I apologize for being too simple or too complicated. I will try to answer any questions I can.

[southernsun]

I've dabbled in stocks, well spread betting them with igindex, what I tend to do is look at an RSS news feed around 7AM GMT or before the market in london opens, see what news has come out from UK companies, if its good or bad and just go long/short as soon as the market opens, they are quick 'trades' per se and you will close them within an hour at the most for a quick profit, the biggest movers are usually pharma and exploration energy companies or any really who have been awarded big contracts, etc.

While it may not be everyones cup of tea, it has worked for me. However I mainly trade currencys and do that for a living.

[Akagi]

A Forex man.

Do you trade currencies during asian hours?

[southernsun]

Originally Posted by Akagi

A Forex man.

Do you trade currencies during asian hours?

Hardly, unless I've got a trade already open from the previous day. I trade mainly London.

What broker do you use? What currencys do you trade?

[Akagi]

I'm not currently involved in Forex, but I've been interested in it/reading about it. I know enough to know that you have to be pretty knowledgeable on the subject to not lose money like most people.

There was a thread on /r9k/ last week where a guy claimed he made about $50 a day trading GBP & YEN during Asian hours.

What do you think of signal providers like these?: http://www.zulutrade.com/TradeHistor...aspx?pid=27609

[L33tz]

you guys misunderstood me.

im in the penny stock game

[southernsun]

Originally Posted by Akagi

I'm not currently involved in Forex, but I've been interested in it. I know enough to know that you have to be pretty knowledgeable on the subject to not lose money like most people.

There was a thread on /r9k/ last week where a guy claimed he made about $50 a day trading GBP & YEN during Asian hours.

I only trade eurusd and usdchf as of late, you can use these two as hedging currencys as if one goes one way, the other goes the other way the majority of the time, I'm finding the pound very unpredictable and volatile at the minute and have given up on all pound pairs.

I've got a couple of buy orders for eurchf as theres a very good chance the swiss bank will raise the floor for the minimum exchange rate which is currently set at 1.2, if they do this it'l move the pair up hundreds if not thousands of pips like they did last year in a single day, right now that pair is ranging about 10 pips a day but I've got a feeling it'll explode soon, but every trader I speak to is expecting this to happen, so it probably won't

Forex is worth getting into, biggest thing that cleans out accounts in my opinion is lack of risk management, along with a suitable size stop loss, sticking to your trading plan down to a T and the psychological aspect of it all, I risk no more than 2 or 3% of my account on any one trade and trade using fibonacci retracements and pivot levels.



Edit, one last thing, patience is another big one, waiting for that entry, without it, you're fucked