eBay & Empty Box?

[zoklet38]

I've often wondered what would happen in the following situation:

Let's say you buy something on eBay.

You pay through PayPal.

When your item arrives you receive an EMPTY BOX. The seller shipped you a box with tracking and signature and everything but when you open it there's nothing inside.

You go to PayPal and you file a dispute saying you received an empty box.

Who would win the dispute??

[thunderfromdownunder]

You open a dispute as "item not as described". Then you will win.

eBay makes all sellers accept a return if the buyer claims the item is not as described.

You then send back with tracking.

Then seller receives the item.

Then you get a refund from the seller.

[temporaryuser]

Originally Posted by thunderfromdownunder

You open a dispute as "item not as described". Then you will win.

eBay makes all sellers accept a return if the buyer claims the item is not as described.

You then send back with tracking.

Then seller receives the item.

Then you get a refund from the seller.

I know you said before that you used to sell a lot on ebay. Has anyone ever done this to you and got away with it?

I find selling anything of high value on ebay susceptible to fraud particularly anything virtual. Luckily I know more than most of the amateurs out there and see it coming.

[thunderfromdownunder]

Originally Posted by temporaryuser

I know you said before that you used to sell a lot on ebay. Has anyone ever done this to you and got away with it?

I find selling anything of high value on ebay susceptible to fraud particularly anything virtual. Luckily I know more than most of the amateurs out there and see it coming.

No.

eBay isn't that dark a world.

Buyer ALWAYS wins.

[zoklet38]

I use to sell on eBay and was a top rated seller for several years.

The main reason I stopped selling on eBay is because of the potential to be totally ripped off as a seller. It's very risky to sell on eBay.

The way I got ripped was buyers would buy my perfect condition item, then claim I shipped them a broken or damaged item, they would return the item but the item I received back was not the item I sold them, it was a broken version of the item I sold.

In other words, they have a part that broke, so they need a new part. They go to eBay buy the part they needed from me, then claim it arrived broken, file an item not as described dispute, then they would send me their BROKEN car part back and get a full refund.

After this happened a few times I gave up selling on eBay. It's just to risky.

[zoklet38]

What blows my mind are the people on eBay selling Gold Coins such as the Krugerrand worth $1800.

I mean what if the buyer buys one of these $1800 coins, then when it arrives they file Item not as described, say the seller sent them some cheap coin instead??

Seriously... I mean the sellers who list those gold coins have all this stuff in their listing about Signature required or registered mail well, that still doesn't mean crap if the buyer claims you sent them a fake coin.

I know some people are trusting but come on man... Gold Coins?

Anyone could start an new eBay account and pay with their credit card and file a chargeback and get a full refund.

I'm just saying. I would NEVER sell anything expensive on eBay because as others have pointed out... The buyer ALWAYS wins...

[shrill]

Originally Posted by zoklet38

I use to sell on eBay and was a top rated seller for several years.

The main reason I stopped selling on eBay is because of the potential to be totally ripped off as a seller. It's very risky to sell on eBay.

My friend Sue sells a lot on eBay, but after losing more than 500 on a chargeback she is removing many of her listings. She says it's too easy for a buyer to scam sellers out of huge amounts of money because PayPal doesn't care.

In this case, the buyer bought a very expensive item. Upon receiving the item, the buyer opened a dispute with PayPal (not as described), claiming that it was missing a part that was supposed to come with it.

Sue contacted the buyer and offered to replace the "missing" part and/or issue a partial refund.

PayPal resolved the case & determined Sue must issue a partial refund to the buyer for the damaged/"missing" part. After the dispute was closed, the buyer went to his CC issuer and filed a chargeback. Paypal does nothing since the dispute has already been resolved.

TL;DR -- Buyer walked away with all his money, plus an item he is free to resell for upwards of $500.

Sue says in such a situation, there's little recourse for sellers. A buyer using a CC thru Paypal can easily make $$$$$ by filing chargebacks and keeping the item to resell.

[Mordisk]

the buyer doesnt always win either, just 9 out of 10 times.
ive won as a seller 2 huge frauds and lost the 3rd one and then closed the account and made new ones

[BigPimpin]

If the seller ships the package via Fed Ex or UPS it's pretty easy to win this claim as the buyer. You can get proof of weight from whatever carrier it was shipped with to show EBay. Now if they put enough weight in it like bags of sand or something then you would be screwed.

If it comes by USPS then your pretty much screwed because their tracking system sucks so bad and doesn't have accurate records.

[thunderfromdownunder]

Originally Posted by BigPimpin

If the seller ships the package via Fed Ex or UPS it's pretty easy to win this claim as the buyer. You can get proof of weight from whatever carrier it was shipped with to show EBay. Now if they put enough weight in it like bags of sand or something then you would be screwed.

If it comes by USPS then your pretty much screwed because their tracking system sucks so bad and doesn't have accurate records.

PayPal don't check weight.

[BigPimpin]

Not true. I've won a claim against a seller that did this exact same scam. They used Fed Ex and when I told the Paypal rep to look at theFrd Ex site it showed the shipped weight was 3oz when it was normally a 6lb item. I had my money back within a hour.

[zoklet38]

Once again, I want to make clear this is just a discussion about eBay and PayPal for information only. I use to sell on eBay and I got ripped off several times so this might help you from getting ripped off as a seller...

Instead of an empty box what would really happen is the seller would ship out a rock or bag of sand or something that weighs the same as the item. Most eBay sellers are not completely stupid, they know how eBay works.

The box would not be empty but rather would have something inside other than the item you won. A Decoy item.

So lets say you buy something on eBay and the seller sends you something other than what you paid for. You buy a Xbox360 and instead you get a brick that weighs the same as the xbox360. The seller sends it to you with signature required and you sign for the package.

Now, you as the buyer have to go to PayPal or eBay and file a dispute saying the item was not as described since what you got was not what you expected. Explain that you got a BRICK instead of the Xbox360. Now 99% of the time eBay or PayPal will side with the buyer and allow you to ship the "item/brick" back to the seller with tracking. Once the tracking shows the item is returned then you get a full refund.

However, if you have done this several times in the past or if eBay or PayPal don't believe you and think you are scamming the seller then you will lose. This is why most people don't get a refund. They type like a 7th grader or use language that eBay and PayPal don't like and think you are lying to them.

The key is to be very professional and calm. Don't type in all caps or say crazy stuff about the seller. Don't write a book, just state the facts:

You bought an item on eBay
You paid XXXX for it.
The seller sent you a brick instead of the Xbox360 (It's a good idea to take a photo of the box with the brick inside showing what you got when you opened the box)

Now many of the sources for how to handle problems on eBay suggest you contact the seller and try to work with them, etc. etc. but in reality you don't really have to contact the seller at all. You can just go straight to PayPal and file an Item Not As Described dispute and PayPal will immediately place a hold on the sellers account for the $$$ you sent them. Then they will require you to ship the item back to the seller with tracking and signature required, etc.

99% of the time, the buyer would be able to get their money back.

[Arch]

Originally Posted by zoklet38

However, if you have done this several times in the past or if eBay or PayPal don't believe you and think you are scamming the seller then you will lose. This is why most people don't get a refund. They type like a 7th grader or use language that eBay and PayPal don't like and think you are lying to them.

The key is to be very professional and calm. Don't type in all caps or say crazy stuff about the seller. Don't write a book, just state the facts:

You bought an item on eBay
You paid XXXX for it.
The seller sent you a brick instead of the Xbox360 (It's a good idea to take a photo of the box with the brick inside showing what you got when you opened the box)

This.

[zoklet38]

I found this the other day while researching this topic... Someone posted this in another forum...

PAYPAL BUYER SCAM! HOW TO PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST DISHONEST PAYPAL BUYER DISPUTES

Sellers, did you know that you could lose your money if you do not ship EVERY item paid by Paypal with Delivery Confirmation, or a tracking number? It is staggering how many of us do not know and how many of us have found out the hard way. If your buyer pays through Paypal (which most do if you accept it) then Paypal requires you to provide tracking information for that package. Items shipped Internationally are NO EXCEPTION. The only way to provide tracking information on an International item is to send it (and this is the least expensive!) by Global Express Mail which is a min. of $17, and do not even ask what Fedex and UPS charge! Paypal has no remorse that this is totally illogical for items that do not even sell for that amount. NO, A VALID MAILING RECEIPT IS NOT CONSIDERED PROOF!

What can happen if you do not provide a tracking number?: If a buyer claims that the package was not received, then all they have to do is file a Dispute through Paypal. If you do not have a tracking number to provide Paypal, then POOF, the buyers' money is returned to them. They do not care if you have a valid mailing receipt, if the buyer is running a scam, or if the buyer has left you positive feedback raving about the item that they supposedly did not receive, or EVEN if you have emails where the buyer has said that they received the item! It does not matter if you have thousands of positive feedback and have been an ebay and paypal member for 7+ years, while the buyer has very few feedback and only been a member for a few months. The only thing that will save you is if you have the magical Delivery Confirmation Number. AND NO, INSURANCE ALONE IS NOT PROOF ENOUGH FOR PAYPAL.

Easiest way to economically provide a Tracking Number with USPS: The best way, and you even get a professional looking label is to print your Domestic Shipping Labels through Ebay or Paypal. It is very simple, just click on Print Shipping Label after you have sent an invoice, or in your Paypal account beside the buyers payment, click Ship. The Label prints right from your printer, and you can print it on regular paper or a sticky Label. This is also an excellent way to save money since they give you a discounted price on Delivery Confirmation. There is still no fail proof, economical way of sending your International packages without grossly overpaying shipping, so the only thing I can recommend is to come up with an amount that you are willing to lose if the package does not arrive to the buyer or is damaged. Or to no longer accept International Buyers, or require all International packages be sent Global Express Mail (which provides a tracking number)

WHERE IS PAYPALS SELLER PROTECTION POLICY??

Have you read your Paypal Seller Protection Policy? A joke in comparison to the vast tools that a buyer is given to be protected. Basically all I got from it was how you can comply with Paypal's Policies to keep a customer happy. There is NO SELLER DISPUTE/COMPLAINT RESOLUTION CENTER IN PAYPAL! You cannot submit a complaint against a buyer, but a buyer can do so both through Ebay & Paypal. I have never seen Companies work so hard for the buyer, but seemingly neglecting their own customers, the ones that make them rich. Buyers have the world at their fingertips, and these companies know that you know that Paypal has the market cornered, leaving you no where else to go but Paypal. Don't get me wrong, I am also an avid buyer on ebay and think that the Buyer Protection Policy is a good thing when used correctly, but again, who is fighting for the Seller? And more importantly, if Paypal had to refund a buyers money out of their own pockets, would they be so generous and careless?

I have been a Paypal Member for over 12 years, and an Ebay member for 13+ years. Not once had I ever had any complaints with Paypal until the companies merged.

[demand]

All Hypothetical btw...

If someone wanted to buy an item from ebay, and the seller had a 100% feedback rating, and this item was worth around 1grand, it was shipped by express delivery, and payment was through paypal, would it be possible to buy this and then file a item not as described,

17 ratings,
230 odd feedback,
100% feedback,
Payment policy
Terms

All Payments Must Be Made Within The Day Of Purchase.

Before You Sign For The Special Delivery, You Must Ensure The Item Is In The Sealed Packet.


Payment Options

Preferred Method-

2 % Discount On Items When You Pay Via Bank Transfer- Details Are Provided Via Email For Security Reasons.

Also

Payment Via Payal.


Returns

Returns Accepted For Valid Reasons.

Returns Must Be Returned In Original Packaging With The Factory Seal In Place.

Returns Must Be Sent Via Royal Mail Next Day/Special Delivery With Full Insurance.

Returns Accepted Within 7 Days Of Purchase.


Can this be done to a company and independant person?
Or can this not be done to a company and only a independant person?

[temporaryuser]

Originally Posted by BigPimpin

Not true. I've won a claim against a seller that did this exact same scam. They used Fed Ex and when I told the Paypal rep to look at theFrd Ex site it showed the shipped weight was 3oz when it was normally a 6lb item. I had my money back within a hour.

You only won because the scammer was a moron. If the package had been the same weight it would have been a lot harder to win the case.

[temporaryuser]

Originally Posted by Mordisk

the buyer doesnt always win either, just 9 out of 10 times.
ive won as a seller 2 huge frauds and lost the 3rd one and then closed the account and made new ones

Where you the buyer or seller? How huge are we talking here? Did you go with classic paypal scams or was it a new twist?

[sher]

well it works alright i just got taken to the cleaner to ..the first dispute i won then she did a different one.. then she got it.. now she is reselling the items on ebay and i contacted them about it but oh she maybe got the exact same things from elsewhere.. I contacted other people that she has done business with and too no surprise others have dealt with her too .. so far all the people who have had extra insurance on items have made it without any problems... I had packed the box at the post office and he seen everything that went into the box still not enuf to win dispute ..somethings i have thought about asking a friend to buy from her and use that excuse on her.. I did ask the post office to run a check on the package to make sure it didn't end up somewhere else good thing is they are going after the person for fraud .. now the ebay and paypal people need t take notice ..also police is looking into it..

[southernsun]

A company I used to work for got scammed rotten on ebay, they sold everything from guitars to krugerrand coins, on this particular day some buyer from italy bought 5 kruggerands @ £800 each, they were sent by a big name courier fully tracked, they arrived but he said he received no coins and filed a dispute with paypal, they gave him the £4000 back and he kept the 5 coins.

[twister]

what i don't get about the shipping the item back is , the buyer who ships the "item back" for example a brick doesnt he pay for the shipping , does the refund include shipping or only the item , that means that the scammer looses the money on the shipping.

i myself am a seller and I'm very worried about selling branded things original off course , but I'm worried they might report it as fake and i have my account close and possible police involved. would there be a way to prove the branded item you sold is real?

[ebayseller]

I was scammed last week by a dishonest buyer, i sent a very expensive Graphics card to Europe 1300 miles away from the UK other end of France, and the Buyer claimed the Box only had bubble wrap and a Bag of coins, i told him was the Box damaged he replied he 'couldn't remember' he just opened The box. ''i smell BS'' just another Buyer trying to pull a fast one!.


just ask yourself guys how many Times is this happening to sellers how many fraudsters are pulling this it's insane Ebay needs to protect the seller again.

It left me confused because it was so dame easy for a dishonest buyer to claim this, I'll knock his block off when i get my passport sorted

I lost £1200 for a very expensive Cad graphics card (Nvidia quadro) series

The Buyer didn't communicate through the Ebay message system, he went straight in the the dispute console without contacting me first i found it completely crazy.

So i sent proof of picture and ''tracking number'' that wasn't no good ebay favored the buyer without no questions asked How dame crazy??.

So ''paypal'' Refunded his Money within 3 days i might call the police and waiting to see what police station in france could assist me

[KentuckyFriedChicken]

Originally Posted by ebayseller

I was scammed last week by a dishonest buyer, i sent a very expensive Graphics card to Europe 1300 miles away from the UK other end of France, and the Buyer claimed the Box only had bubble wrap and a Bag of coins, i told him was the Box damaged he replied he 'couldn't remember' he just opened The box. ''i smell BS'' just another Buyer trying to pull a fast one!.


just ask yourself guys how many Times is this happening to sellers how many fraudsters are pulling this it's insane Ebay needs to protect the seller again.

It left me confused because it was so dame easy for a dishonest buyer to claim this, I'll knock his block off when i get my passport sorted

I lost £1200 for a very expensive Cad graphics card (Nvidia quadro) series

The Buyer didn't communicate through the Ebay message system, he went straight in the the dispute console without contacting me first i found it completely crazy.

So i sent proof of picture and ''tracking number'' that wasn't no good ebay favored the buyer without no questions asked How dame crazy??.

So ''paypal'' Refunded his Money within 3 days i might call the police and waiting to see what police station in france could assist me

How much feedback did he have?

[heyitsbryan]

Originally Posted by ebayseller

I was scammed last week by a dishonest buyer, i sent a very expensive Graphics card to Europe 1300 miles away from the UK other end of France, and the Buyer claimed the Box only had bubble wrap and a Bag of coins, i told him was the Box damaged he replied he 'couldn't remember' he just opened The box. ''i smell BS'' just another Buyer trying to pull a fast one!.


just ask yourself guys how many Times is this happening to sellers how many fraudsters are pulling this it's insane Ebay needs to protect the seller again.

It left me confused because it was so dame easy for a dishonest buyer to claim this, I'll knock his block off when i get my passport sorted

I lost £1200 for a very expensive Cad graphics card (Nvidia quadro) series

The Buyer didn't communicate through the Ebay message system, he went straight in the the dispute console without contacting me first i found it completely crazy.

So i sent proof of picture and ''tracking number'' that wasn't no good ebay favored the buyer without no questions asked How dame crazy??.

So ''paypal'' Refunded his Money within 3 days i might call the police and waiting to see what police station in france could assist me

I don't think police will help you that much. Subpoena ebay for the seller's information (you can do that) and sue that bastard in small claims court. You can also request for a seller's address and stuff on their too, so use that to your advantage.

[Jdm]

Or, you could just go to the house and take care of it yourself without cops? I dont understand why people talk about getting cops involved when shit happens to them but theyd freak if someone decided to call the cops on them for something. Handle your own business. If it means so much to you, take care of it, fly out there and beat his ass. The cops there wont do shit. If you get beat you gotta take care of the dirty work afterwards. Not some fuckin law enforcement.

[ebayseller]

The Buyer had 89 feedbacks and i can't see any red flags, and been active on Ebay sinse 2008, if ''paypal'' doesn't favour me i'll take the liar-buyer to small claims court but The trouble is who's gonna go to court no way am i gonna go to France just for a court case he can come here.


Paypal some times rarely favours bothsides basicly shoot threselfs in The foot with this Time wasting ''BS'' from Buyers so i don't know if someone stole it from the postal service could of been royal mail, Frence stick frog eating postal services, who knows??

I spoke to a solicitor it's a jungle they said civil matter small claims but they laughed and said Good luck with that WTF!!!!!!

And plus he can't remember if the Box had damage so that means i can't cliam it though deliverly his just a complete CXXXT just want's to make it harder for me and plus makes him more guilty

[ebayseller]

I forgot to mention they did favour the Buyer, but i'm waiting for paypal to get back to me with the evidence i have uploaded i have against the buyer, so i hope they favour me

sorry to confuse you guys lol