How Would We Fight US Troops? (or other army)

[ACE_187]

The government is starting to ask troops if they would fight US citizens and I heard about something that Obama did that would allow Canadian troops to do it in case they were needed and the US troops were busy in the middle east or whatever.

In the middle east 40% of them die from IED's made mostly out of mortar rounds so the same thing would probably be used here.

How would you deal with drones? Can't they be hacked? Wouldn't it work to just stay spread out and do your best to have some cover over your head so they can't see you? (or as much as possible). It seems like they are only good for targeting groups.

One thing they probably don't do is use large caliber rifles that would defeat Level 3 armor. I mean even at 100 yards you could be aiming for a soft spot but the bullet drops enough and hits the armor. 7mm magnum or .300 magnum ammo would probably be scarce but imo it should definately be used as much as possible by snipers against them.

[Tachosomoza]

Wow, you're really trying to get yourself into one of those FEMA camps, aren't you?

[ACE_187]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

Wow, you're really trying to get yourself into one of those FEMA camps, aren't you?

I don't mean me lol. I love my jewish God, and my country. I would gladly bend over and let Obama fuck me in the ass like he did so many members of his church. When I say "we" of course I'm talking about people not as patriotic as myself.

Also who needs FEMA camps with this NDAA thing going on? It's legal for them to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them.

[ACE_187]

Oh, something else I wanted to mention. On tv, I see US troops just carelessly kicking in doors. Is this just theatrics for the news? It would be too easy to booby trap that.

Not to mention, it's in army handbooks that the door/windows should be a last resort for entering a building.

[Infrared]

Lol...Then what does that leave?! Lmao...I know, I know, you could blast a hole in the wall with a nice dual-charge rocket or something. It just struck me as funny...lol

[&Zenith]

You wouldn't.

[944]

Small gorilla groups in rural areas that they know far better than the solders that came from across the country. Man to man is just suicide against real solders. Use the fact that we have so many hunters that know how to track/hide/wait and are comfortable using their bolt actions at several hundred yards

[is all mememememe with me]

you learn from example, for instance when the romans invaded scotland. they went with a huge well trained and well equipped army that the scots couldn't hope to match. but huge well trained armies prefer huge battles which they are better equipped to take on. the scots never gave them the opportunity to fight that large scale technological battle that they came to fight. instead using skirmish tactics on smaller units and supply lines, with fast maneuverable hit and run techniques. this also served to fuck the roman leader who needed the news of a big battle victory to send home for public and political support. i think it was vesuvius iirc and the whole scotland affair turned into a total embarrassment for him. he was murdered before he even got to return in disgrace i think.

but those tactics are a serious mindfuck on a large well equipped and technologically superior enemy. its what the vietcong used and the taliban are using now. time is always on the side of the guerrilla and will be even more so if it was US troops vs civilians simply because US troops are very expensive and without civilian tax dollars and the fact that the value of the dollar would collapse in such a situation, the US forces simply couldn't be up-kept. in any case i suspect many would defect rather than fight their own families and countrymen, and many would either take sophisticated weaponry with them or disable what they could before they left.

E: it wasnt versuvius, it was serverus lol. just looked it up, versivius is just the volcano and not a roman leader apparently haha

[Issue313]

Have the campaigns against the US in Iraq and Afghanistan really achieved anything? I'd be more likely to agree with mememememe and just wait for the occupiers to run out of funding. If they don't use genocide against you, you can just sit low and look sad and Ghandi-guilt-trip them into leaving.

[944]

Also Look at what this one untrained man with less than ideal equipment did....Now what do you think a retired scout sniper with his rifle of choice could do?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

[MAYOR]

A soldier stands for you not against you

[Psych]

Originally Posted by 944

Also Look at what this one untrained man with less than ideal equipment did....Now what do you think a retired scout sniper with his rifle of choice could do?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

Good point, but the sniper dude was free to travel all the highways and such. Imagine when there is a curfew and transportation is restricted.

[944]

Originally Posted by Psych

Good point, but the sniper dude was free to travel all the highways and such. Imagine when there is a curfew and transportation is restricted.

But talking about someone who is trained to not be caught and do their job from 1000+ yards away, not a guy relying on panic to escape and making 50-100 yard shots

[Sir Cornwell]

Originally Posted by Unbelievable Taste

A soldier stands for you not against you

And if his orders are to shoot you if you won't be "rounded up" for transport?

[MAYOR]

Originally Posted by Sir Cornwell

And if his orders are to shoot you if you won't be "rounded up" for transport?

the doomsday will be economic so the military will be cash-strapped too . Me personally I'd fight back however. It would be hard to know their plans anyway. The one advantage a citizen has is that they monitor the coast and the skies. It's hard to watch millions of people already living in the country elgally.

[Sir Cornwell]

No one knows the future but the military think tanks war game every possible scenario. I wonder if FEMA camps are a product of that?

What can a citizen do but stay fit? The best weapon/ammo stash won't do one so much good if they're a 100 pounds overweight or if they're foolish with their money and have to sell all their guns to buy food and shelter.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by 944

Small gorilla groups in rural areas that they know far better than the solders that came from across the country. Man to man is just suicide against real solders. Use the fact that we have so many hunters that know how to track/hide/wait and are comfortable using their bolt actions at several hundred yards

The word is guerrilla. It has nothing to do with gorillas. It is spanish.

guerra = war
guerrero = warrior

[944]

Originally Posted by L33tz

The word is guerrilla. It has nothing to do with gorillas. It is spanish.

guerra = war
guerrero = warrior

I know, just didn't pay attention when I spell checked it

[Iehovah]

Using American troops would never work, they'd have to worry about having their own people turning on them.

No, if they do it, they'll do it similar to the way they did in New Orleans. Bring in a bunch of foreign mercenaries who have absolutely no compunction about shooting retards who think their "rights" mean something, make an example out of a couple minor cities, and the rest is a matter of rounding up the extremists and militants.

[Morb]

We're all being divided and turned against each other.

It has begun.

[Parallax]

You wouldn't. You would be killed. You're outnumbered 1,000 to 1 and your AR15 isn't going to do shit against tanks and predator drones.

[Hydroponichronic]

Originally Posted by ACE_187

How would you deal with drones? Can't they be hacked? Wouldn't it work to just stay spread out and do your best to have some cover over your head so they can't see you?

If they were tracking you, they'd just take you out through the cover. If afghanistan and iraq have proven anything, it's that the US army has no problem dumping $10,000 in high-tech ordnance into a building to take out a single enemy combatant. There are some ways to deal with drones; one would be to get out of the action before they had time to scramble (and hope they weren't flying overwatch). Alternatively, the use of high-wattage lasers (presently both legal and available) with some sort of telescopic sighting. A quick flash with a 100+ watt laser ought to trash all the drone's sensor equipment. The trick would be to spot and target them from a long way off. I don't know what the engagement distance is like for most drones, but it might be far enough that a radar rig would be necessary to see them before they see you.

Originally Posted by Parallax

You wouldn't. You would be killed. You're outnumbered 1,000 to 1 and your AR15 isn't going to do shit against tanks and predator drones.

Lol, that's cute. I'm fairly sure there would be whole states that wouldn't stand for government tyranny. Most of the south/midwest would form anti-federal militias overnight, and frankly I don't see US soldiers engaging in combat against their own civilian counterparts.

[Sir Cornwell]

I tend to think of paranoia as being when people worry about goofy stuff that isn't likely to happen while completely ignoring much more likely dangers.

Kind of like getting all your survival gear together in the house you've bought on a well known floodplain.

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic

Lol, that's cute. I'm fairly sure there would be whole states that wouldn't stand for government tyranny. Most of the south/midwest would form anti-federal militias overnight, and frankly I don't see US soldiers engaging in combat against their own civilian counterparts.

That's essentially part of the problem - some would, some wouldn't. That's one way to alienate people from the military - troops fighting troops in the streets. You'd never be able to determine whether they're with you or against you until the bullet exits the back of your skull.

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic

Most of the south/midwest would form anti-federal militias overnight, and frankly I don't see US soldiers engaging in combat against their own civilian counterparts.

They wouldn't hesitate, and never have in the past. They'll do as they're told.

[Hydroponichronic]

Originally Posted by Parallax

They wouldn't hesitate, and never have in the past. They'll do as they're told.

When Virginia declared its secession from the Union in April 1861, Lee chose to follow his home state, despite his personal desire for the Union to stay intact and despite the fact that President Abraham Lincoln had offered Lee command of the Union Army.

QED

[Infrared]

Heh, touche, Sir Moonwall. You so insightful.

[is all mememememe with me]

Originally Posted by Parallax

You wouldn't. You would be killed. You're outnumbered 1,000 to 1 and your AR15 isn't going to do shit against tanks and predator drones.

yes cause that shit was so effective against the taliban huh? all the technology in the world isn't taking on 360 million individuals that easily. especially spread over such a large area as the US. also factor in canada as well. they'll either get dragged into it or will serve as a haven where militia will come and go across the border to conduct hit and run attacks. also you have to consider that there is a lot more to keep a drone in the air than just a few soldiers operating it. it takes specialist technical knowledge and repairs. parts are needed and that stuff is all provided now thru the private sector. that is staffed by the people who are now the enemy to those drones. not only will that massively hinder the militaries use of such technology, but those people take that knowledge with them and use it to full effect against the military. the 2nd american civil war will not be a carbon copy of afganistan by a long shot. even things like tanks and machine guns won't last too long without civilians working in the munitions factories.

and there are other more subtle yet very deadly tactics that can be used by the citizens against the US military. if you think about it, ships and military bases house thousands of personnel. a public call for any defectors to stay in the military and to use sabotage from the inside would cause chaos and paranoia among the military. that paranoia alone would cause many defections as a knock on effect. and it would only take one sailor aboard a ship to sink it, just one. you get just two sailors fall out aboard a ship and the next thing they are both accusing each other of being turncoats. that will send paranoia thru the whole ship and before you know it the whole ships company will have turned on each other. before you know it its bye bye USS Nimitz, and all the technology in the world can't do a damn thing to stop it, lol.

the military is way more reliant on its citizens than the citizens are reliant on the military. the citizens could soon adapt to replace the military in time but the military cannot adapt to replace its citizens. and where do you get the idea that you'd be outnumbered 1000 to 1. more like the other way round.

[The Pat-Man]

go wheretheir advantages (armor and fire support) cant. which is pretty much nowhere.

[Rolf]

For minority; similar to way insurgent Pashtuns fight them, except lacking experience, mobility and endurance of far less rounder barbarians brought up in violent tribal somewhat martial culture, proclaims Rolf. For everybody else, they would not, adds Rolf.

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Rolf

For minority; similar to way insurgent Pashtuns fight them, except lacking experience, mobility and endurance of far less rounder barbarians brought up in violent tribal somewhat martial culture, proclaims Rolf. For everybody else, they would not, adds Rolf.

I hate to stick up for Americans, but I actually reckon they'd do better.
You have to remember that despite the fatness (which wouldn't last all that long in a time of real scarcity), the average American was well nourished during childhood, is literate and reasonably intelligent.

The 'martial tribal culture' doesn't help much when you're dealing with inbred, malnourished sheep herders who can't shoot straight (though if you have poor and uncorrected vision who can blame you?) - the familiarity with guns in the states on the other hand is immense, and any serious insurgency would have no trouble training novices to shoot if they needed to.
What's more you would have veterans of the recent wars in any serious insurgency too.
IED's would be in vogue too of course, but in actual combat I reckon an American insurgency would be far more effective than the Taliban.
Not that they still wouldn't suffer a big loss/kill ratio though.

The main issue though, that nullifies this, is that any sort of shift to martial law is going to handled in such a way as to carry as many of dumbshit reactionaries of the country with it as possible.
Angry white gun-waving southerners (and their fellow travelers) are exactly the people they'd be using as auxiliaries "to kill their own people".
Look at the reaction to the Trayvon Martin thing - you could easily enlist and use these morons to say... help 'clean out' a town of minorities by shooting anybody out after curfew.

[Rolf]

That was sarcasm and not intended to be taken at paragraph-level seriousness, notes Rolf. Statement of 944 is basically what Rolf would have stated, were Rolf taking such thread in more serious fashion, adds Rolf.

Rolf will agree however that any widespread armed insurgency in USA would make the Balkans look clean, proclaims Rolf.

[Dichromate]

Originally Posted by Rolf

That was sarcasm and not intended to be taken at paragraph-level seriousness, notes Rolf.

Rolf will agree however that any widespread armed insurgency in USA would make the Balkans look clean, proclaims Rolf.

Fair enough - I'd have made most of my comment regardless though.

[slicknickns]

Originally Posted by ACE_187

The government is starting to ask troops if they would fight US citizens and I heard about something that Obama did that would allow Canadian troops to do it in case they were needed and the US troops were busy in the middle east or whatever.

Stop believing apparent bullshit

[p6867]

Yeah, unconventional forces should be prepared to lose over 15 troops for everyone of the enemy they kill. This is in addition to what most conventional forces will do to force a native population to give over, torturing and killing the family members and known associates, putting your neighbors into disease filled internment camps or 'relocation settlements'. A few years of watching your family starve while you live out your red dawn fantasies in the woods or urban center, bored, suffering and fighting against insurmountable odds, you'll give up.

Or you'll get the backing of a major world power and try to fight like a conventional force.

Basically though, Mao said it best when it comes to fighting an unconventional war

"Keep men, lose land; land can be taken again. Keep land, lose men; land and men both lost."
Or the bandit chief who told him how to fight,

You just circle around and around and around.

[Irukanji]

The US military is a slow, heavily armour caterpillar. Basically, it needs a huge force bringing in supplies daily just to power its vehicles, then an equally as big of a force to bring in food an water and more equipment.

So the idea is to attack their supply lines, they can't defend large amounts of roadway 24/7, not even with drones. All you need is a way to destroy the road itself and create a crater big enough to hold them in the same place for a long period of time so your buddies can finish the drivers off and take all the supplies.

Or you could use remote controlled vehicles(as the US) and then put some gear in there fitted with GPS trackers, so when they steal your stuff they take it back to their hideouts and you have 500 little GPS devices telling you where they are xD

[1983]

Most militarys conduct and actions are governed with what they can and cannot do as well as what they can and cannot use for equipment.

As a private citizen I do not have these restrictions, And seeing as knowledge is power to a guerrilla fighter I'd have no problem sharing my information database with them off grid.

Learn the mindset of a survivalist and a militant, Be smart, Use what you have, Most of all be quite because even best friends can turn to enemies over a few glasses of beer.

Al

[The Pat-Man]

Originally Posted by Irukanji

The US military is a slow, heavily armour caterpillar.

common misconception, you could have a battalion of rangers on your doorstep in australia in less than 4 hours.

[mrbarbwir3]

I do believe there are 1,500-5,000 US Marines stationed in northern Australia to help defend the open waters. So their already there.

[mizled]

Originally Posted by ACE_187

The government is starting to ask troops if they would fight US citizens and I heard about something that Obama did that would allow Canadian troops to do it in case they were needed and the US troops were busy in the middle east or whatever.

Canadian troops? Beer ied's.

US troops? Wouldn't do it.