Torn over Diablo 3 - Ethics of gaming?

[Lady Julily]

I was one of the very many people that were incredibly excited to hear that Blizzard was going to be making a third Diablo game. Then they revealed that their game economy would include real money trading for items and gear, and I felt disgusted and lost interest in the game. Now, though, with all this hype and the release just weeks away, I'm itching to play it. The gameplay looks to be fantastic, the classes all well done, and I really like the artistic approach they have taken (though it seems many disagree ). One of my friends told me that I was being a crybaby over the real money trading, and that since I don't have to participate in it I should just shut up, purchase the game and enjoy it.

It's more than that, though, at least to me. More than just participating or not. It seems to be a far-reaching issue of ethics that greatly affects the industries of gaming, and what it does mean and will mean for a game to be a game. Real money trading for in-game items, in just about any game, is wrong. Not only does it give unfair advantage to people who can afford to spend more money on the games (occupy Sanctuary?), but it waters down the games in very serious ways.

One argument that I have read on the Diablo 3 forum that supports the real money trading, is that it gives players more options. "Why should grinding be the only way for us to get powerful items? What is so bad about allowing casual players this method for advancement?"

These people seem to have a strange sense of entitlement to their character's advancement. They feel that just because other players are better, have more time to play and can coordinate well with friends, there is no reason that they should not be receiving the same items as them. To them, throwing their money at a game should be recognized as a viable method of advancement. Back in the day, people were ridiculed mercilessly for being big enough losers to have to pay for an item, a character, or in-game currency. Because they were losers, and they were pathetic. Over time, though, laziness, apathy and undeserved senses of entitlement have corrupted our gamers, and thus our games.

I have always been a pretty casual player, of MMOs or games like Diablo. When I managed to get a very rare or difficult to obtain item, it was because I earned it. I always liked playing PvP, and I was never as "uber" as the hardcore raiding crowd. As such, I did end up dying a lot because of their gear advantage. I didn't complain or cry, this was to be expected. Almost all of them earned their gear just as I did mine, they just earned more of it. Adding this money thing into the mix is ludicrous. It places an actual monetary value on time spent playing a video game, and I feel it illegitimizes entire game worlds.

Sure, it was happening regardless, but for a respected company like Blizzard to embrace it and even profit from it... don't you fear for the future?

In Diablo 3 now, the ability to trade real money for items and in-game money so easily and quickly (and without the backlash from real players that there used to be) is going to mean that it will happen quite a lot. Now, all casual players will have a means of competing with the hardcore players, and they will utilize that means. Then other casual players, that may have some reservation about spending even more of their money, will feel that they need to give in and make some purchases to stay competitive even with the other casual players on their level. I really hope I am wrong, but it seems to me that in the future people will buy games expecting to hand over more of their money for all sorts of optional things. Micro-transactions for small bits of content, purchasing powerful weapons and armor from the game developers, buying level or stat increases and spending money for early access to content.

Why don't you care? This is wrong, and game developers should be funding creative ideas to prevent their games from becoming corrupted, not introducing that corruption themselves and then profiting from it. Playing an MMO in the future could quite possibly mean making a very serious monetary investment. Am I crazy for wishing to boycott Diablo 3? Does it even matter whether I purchase it or not?

What is an idealistic elf to do?

[Duelist]

you see my friend, in the capitalist system the #1 objective is profits. If the shareholders aren't satisfied, the company is not doing its job correctly. The salaries of hundreds, as well as the dividends of thousands more depend on the success of this game. Thus, the developers are going to try to make the game accessible to as large an audience as possible.

Back before games enjoyed the mainstream success they do now, developers created games with the hope that they would be as fun as possible. This means that they may have been more specifically marketed to the nerds who enjoy challenges and don't mind dying in their games. Challenges and dying are fundamentally opposed to idea of mass-market appeal. There is no reconciliation of these ideas.

So, I think we will only see the trend continuing towards where it is headed. The things you fear the most are going to happen, fact. It's quite sad actually.

[kroz]

challenges and games where you die is against mass market appeal? what da fuck kinda games do you play? patty cake?

pc games where you put up real money would not nessecarily being hitting a wider market... i mean im sure many people like the op and other pc gamers would see that as a hinderance, by competeing against people with a lot of money. shit you already dish out money for the game , yet you need money to be able to compete against the few that are able to?

i know i wouldnt want to play against rich kids with disposable income.. even if i did have the money, me and others would not want to throw away money like that.. especially in today economy.. i think you got it backwards son.. otherwise games would have been like this for years now

[Esponda13]

Sure it sucks but it is the reality of the big gaming industry...

However this is nothing new in previous Diablo games you could still purchase items for your character through websites people made that sold stone of jordan rings or in game items. Here is a perfect example http://d2items.com/

These website exist for all MMORPG games and games like Diablo where it is possible to sell in game gold or items for real life profit.

This has been going on for years and won't change.. Not everyone has the time or the means to play a game for hours to achieve the best in game items. I will not lie I have purchased in game items for real life money.. And i justify it by thinking I enjoy this game so much and I want to be more competitive.

At least this way blizzard makes some money off it and not some chinese gold farmer faggot company... and now you as the gamer could potentially make some extra income off an item you may never need for your character...

In a sense its almost no different trading your Super Rare Axe for another Super Rare Item you are just trading for money which you can keep or use that same money to buy something useful for your character

[Paragon]

Diablo 3 is not the sort of game that is ever going to be balanced or worth taking seriously, competition-wise. If people want to spend money on more stuff, let them. It's not like people earn items through skill in that game (it's all luck). To me, Diablo is about wasting time hacking and slashing with buddies, and I'll never care enough about it to spend money on extra weapons, because I'm not a dumbass. If others are dumbasses, that's fine with me. I'll be more than willing to sell expensive items the moment I get them, and I'll still have just as much fun with the game.

I think when you're talking ethics, MUCH bigger issues are addictive games with monthly subscriptions, in-game advertisements, piracy control that gets in the way of the product, and non-free additional content that gets left out of the initial game just so the developers can get more money with less work. Blizzard has been responsible for all that shit, so, while they're extremely talented at producing fun, addictive games, they're probably the company currently hurting gaming the most. For me, though, the item auctions pale in comparison to those other issues (those that hurt the game for everyone, not just idiots with zero priorities).

[Shrike]

This has always existed in MMOs, if not through official channels then Chinese gold sellers and the like.

Blizzard is just bringing it in-house, as other MMOs have done recently like Eve.

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by Paragon

Diablo 3 is not the sort of game that is ever going to be balanced or worth taking seriously, competition-wise. If people want to spend money on more stuff, let them. It's not like people earn items through skill in that game (it's all luck). To me, Diablo is about wasting time hacking and slashing with buddies, and I'll never care enough about it to spend money on extra weapons, because I'm not a dumbass. If others are dumbasses, that's fine with me. I'll be more than willing to sell expensive items the moment I get them, and I'll still have just as much fun with the game.

I think when you're talking ethics, MUCH bigger issues are addictive games with monthly subscriptions, in-game advertisements, piracy control that gets in the way of the product, and non-free additional content that gets left out of the initial game just so the developers can get more money with less work. Blizzard has been responsible for all that shit, so, while they're extremely talented at producing fun, addictive games, they're probably the company currently hurting gaming the most. For me, though, the item auctions pale in comparison to those other issues (those that hurt the game for everyone, not just idiots with zero priorities).

Those other things are just as important as the real money trading issue, of course. When it comes to Diablo 3, the DRM that does not allow people to play single player without an internet connection is particularly disgusting. That is a smaller reason for me, personally, taking issue with the game. Real money trading really, really bothers me though.

It's more of a problem than you seem to realize, too. Just because you won't be participating much in the PvP of Diablo 3 does not mean that you will be unaffected. If players have the option to purchase gear made readily available, they will do so. It will become the norm to see inept players running around with amazing gear. If players are used to having this option, they will expect it in other games, even if they don't really agree with it. In the games where you feel that competition really does matter, this sort of thing will become a norm. When it's the norm long enough, you'll probably even start to buy items too, just because it is now acceptable and kind of expected for you to. Everyone else buys the sword and some armor when they start out, the games were designed for you to (though they may not admit this), so I guess now you just have to spend that money.

By being apathetic about it because it doesn't seem as though it will affect you right now, you're inadvertently making it okay for everyone else to walk all over you and take your money. This is the exact same thing as download content and high monthly fees for MMO players: the gaming industry looking for new ways to get our money.

The argument of, "Well, it would have happened regardless," is a weak one, too. Hacking will happen regardless, but I don't think Blizzard is just going to give in and add cheat codes to their multiplayer games.

[mafiabro]

Nothing like getting murked by the kid with mommy's credit card. I'll pass. I don't know why everyone is so willing to lay back and accept this new trend of paying for shit in games at every turn. I already payed *insert sum*, im not paying more for part of the game that i should already fucking own.

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by Esponda13

I will not lie I have purchased in game items for real life money.. And i justify it by thinking I enjoy this game so much and I want to be more competitive.

That's not much of a justification, when you consider that you are helping to corrupt the games you play and the industry as a whole.

[Snoopy]

Don't over think it. If you can make money off of idiots, in a legal way, all the while having fun with friends, I don't see what the problem be. Diablo 3 is a Diablo game at heart. It's fun. It might piss of some Diablo meta gaming faggot. But don't let that sway your opinion on what's fun and what isn't.

[STD]

games != real life, and should be able to be separated so.

[constantinople]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Don't over think it. If you can make money off of idiots, in a legal way, all the while having fun with friends, I don't see what the problem be. Diablo 3 is a Diablo game at heart. It's fun. It might piss of some Diablo meta gaming faggot. But don't let that sway your opinion on what's fun and what isn't.

Stop making posts I agree with, faggot.

[p6867]

Originally Posted by Lady Julily

One argument that I have read on the Diablo 3 forum that supports the real money trading, is that it gives players more options. "Why should grinding be the only way for us to get powerful items? What is so bad about allowing casual players this method for advancement?"

These people seem to have a strange sense of entitlement to their character's advancement. They feel that just because other players are better, have more time to play and can coordinate well with friends, there is no reason that they should not be receiving the same items as them. To them, throwing their money at a game should be recognized as a viable method of advancement. Back in the day, people were ridiculed mercilessly for being big enough losers to have to pay for an item, a character, or in-game currency. Because they were losers, and they were pathetic. Over time, though, laziness, apathy and undeserved senses of entitlement have corrupted our gamers, and thus our games.

I have always been a pretty casual player, of MMOs or games like Diablo. When I managed to get a very rare or difficult to obtain item, it was because I earned it. I always liked playing PvP, and I was never as "uber" as the hardcore raiding crowd. As such, I did end up dying a lot because of their gear advantage. I didn't complain or cry, this was to be expected. Almost all of them earned their gear just as I did mine, they just earned more of it. Adding this money thing into the mix is ludicrous. It places an actual monetary value on time spent playing a video game, and I feel it illegitimizes entire game worlds.

Sure, it was happening regardless, but for a respected company like Blizzard to embrace it and even profit from it... don't you fear for the future?

In Diablo 3 now, the ability to trade real money for items and in-game money so easily and quickly (and without the backlash from real players that there used to be) is going to mean that it will happen quite a lot. Now, all casual players will have a means of competing with the hardcore players, and they will utilize that means. Then other casual players, that may have some reservation about spending even more of their money, will feel that they need to give in and make some purchases to stay competitive even with the other casual players on their level. I really hope I am wrong, but it seems to me that in the future people will buy games expecting to hand over more of their money for all sorts of optional things. Micro-transactions for small bits of content, purchasing powerful weapons and armor from the game developers, buying level or stat increases and spending money for early access to content.

Why don't you care? This is wrong, and game developers should be funding creative ideas to prevent their games from becoming corrupted, not introducing that corruption themselves and then profiting from it. Playing an MMO in the future could quite possibly mean making a very serious monetary investment. Am I crazy for wishing to boycott Diablo 3? Does it even matter whether I purchase it or not?

What is an idealistic elf to do?

I have a kick ass job, and while there are online games i play with my friends, I work A LOT more than they do. I put in about 70 hours in an average week. Most of my job is to run training programs for employees and meet with clients to discuss any issues we might have. This is downtime i can post on zoklet in, but i cannot play an mmo at work.

However, i still want to raid with my friends after work, when my gf has gone to sleep. Why shouldn't i be able to give money to someone for their item? How does it negatively affect you? I don't have time to grind at an MMO, i'm at my grind all day.

People talking about boycotting video games are the biggest try hard faggots in the world. It's a video game bro. Play it or don't, don't act like you're taking a stand for right and morality in this world.

[Issue313]

So can we sell items back to the game for real life money? I was planning to sell some of my microsoft achievement points. After all if they're given to you as a reward, they should be worth something. Don't tell me it only goes one way...

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Everything you consume in America was put there to make someone else a lot of money. The addictiveness and illusion of satisfaction is only put there to keep you coming back for more.

Diablo 3, meh, I tried the beta. I wasn't impressed at all. Seems blizzard cares more about money though than they do about actual gaming content these days. You can't really blame them though for doing the real world money trading. I mean, some gold farming company over in asia would be taking your money instead if blizzard didn't implement this. Blizzard just decided to direct all the profit from people buying in-game items with real-world money to themselves. It makes them look like faggots, but I mean, people were going to buy their gold and items with credit cards either way.


I think your main focus of "ethics" in gaming should be on MMOs. Games where you have to pay like 10-20 dollars a month to waste your time grinding away at monsters so that you can get better loot. For what? For fucking nothing. All MMOs (at least the ones I've played or seen people play) are completely boring and shitty and only exist to take money out of the players pockets. There is almost zero enjoyment out of playing MMOs. Unless you consider that illusory feeling of dominance in a pathetic online community enjoyment. PvP is the only thing that I would consider a viable reason to play an MMO, but still, there are PLENTY of better games out there that were made solely for PvP that are way more fun and innovative. And you don't have to waste weeks of real-life time grinding away just to have a small chance at seriously competing in PvP.

[Painzstake]

Ever since games manufacturers started employing more psychologist than actual game developers, there has been something SERIOUSLY wrong. Now all they're looking at is profiting off of it.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461...-addicted.html

It's actually a rather enlightening read

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by p6867

I have a kick ass job, and while there are online games i play with my friends, I work A LOT more than they do. I put in about 70 hours in an average week. Most of my job is to run training programs for employees and meet with clients to discuss any issues we might have. This is downtime i can post on zoklet in, but i cannot play an mmo at work.

However, i still want to raid with my friends after work, when my gf has gone to sleep. Why shouldn't i be able to give money to someone for their item? How does it negatively affect you? I don't have time to grind at an MMO, i'm at my grind all day.

People talking about boycotting video games are the biggest try hard faggots in the world. It's a video game bro. Play it or don't, don't act like you're taking a stand for right and morality in this world.

You should not be able to give someone money for their items because it's detrimental to the community you play with. It gives losers with disposable income in real life even more of an advantage over the players that choose not to purchase items because they have better things to spend their money on. If someone running around with "uber" gear they have purchased with real life money PKs you for this reason, you're probably going to feel cheated. When real money is factored into the equation, the entire experience is cheapened. Actual in-game accomplishments will lose meaning as players are given the option to hand over their money to forgo the game itself.

How am I negatively affected? I will be at a disadvantage in those PvP fights, and in the case of future games where I imagine the option to purchase items will be made readily available and doing so will be commonplace, players will eventually be purchasing items almost as a necessity, to compete with one another. It's driving the cost of video games up, in a way that will only appear to be entirely optional.

In the case of Diablo 3, Blizzard will be making a lot of money by charging for these transactions to take place. EverQuest 2 is even worse, Sony Online Entertainment actually gives players the option to purchase great gear directly from them. Both of these companies have decided to turn a profit at the cost of their game's integrity.

It's fine that you don't mind corruption in gaming today, but it's ironic that you call me a faggot when you're the one who hands over your money to others so that they can play your games for you.

[p6867]

I don't really pvp, so i don't care. But people pay money to shitty gold farms from china already, so why not just make it in game? The good PVP gear in other games is only bought with commendations anyway

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by p6867

I don't really pvp, so i don't care. But people pay money to shitty gold farms from china already, so why not just make it in game? The good PVP gear in other games is only bought with commendations anyway

Because now the option will be that much more available to gamers, and that much less taboo. It's the start of something much bigger.

EDIT: And the best pvp MMOs don't allow people to purchase gear with "honor points" or anything similar.

[p6867]

Ok.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Lady Julily

You should not be able to give someone money for their items because it's detrimental to the community you play with. It gives losers with disposable income in real life even more of an advantage over the players that choose not to purchase items because they have better things to spend their money on. If someone running around with "uber" gear they have purchased with real life money PKs you for this reason, you're probably going to feel cheated. When real money is factored into the equation, the entire experience is cheapened. Actual in-game accomplishments will lose meaning as players are given the option to hand over their money to forgo the game itself.

How am I negatively affected? I will be at a disadvantage in those PvP fights, and in the case of future games where I imagine the option to purchase items will be made readily available and doing so will be commonplace, players will eventually be purchasing items almost as a necessity, to compete with one another. It's driving the cost of video games up, in a way that will only appear to be entirely optional.

In the case of Diablo 3, Blizzard will be making a lot of money by charging for these transactions to take place. EverQuest 2 is even worse, Sony Online Entertainment actually gives players the option to purchase great gear directly from them. Both of these companies have decided to turn a profit at the cost of their game's integrity.

It's fine that you don't mind corruption in gaming today, but it's ironic that you call me a faggot when you're the one who hands over your money to others so that they can play your games for you.

Your entire argument fails because of one game: Eve Online.

Anyway, this thread is full of the usual herp derp evil kkkompaniez are only in it for teh moniez derp derp hasta la victioria siempre

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Your entire argument fails because of one game: Eve Online.

Anyway, this thread is full of the usual herp derp evil kkkompaniez are only in it for teh moniez derp derp hasta la victioria siempre

What is it about Eve Online that invalidates my argument? Eve always looked to be a very good game, have they managed to allow this sort of thing without it giving unfair advantages or something?

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Lady Julily

What is it about Eve Online that invalidates my argument? Eve always looked to be a very good game, have they managed to allow this sort of thing without it giving unfair advantages or something?

In Eve Online, I could spend like $200K and simply buy everything in that motherfucker. And then, I would lose it all. You know why? Because buying items or gear doesn't mean you know how to use them. You also know what's great about Eve? Like IRL, everything you own can be stolen, taken or destroyed.

Giving motherfuckers the means to buy gear won't ruin a game. Unbalancing and a poor implementation of PVP mechanics will ruin the game. Shit like WoW and other mainstream MMOs are too gear dependant. In a proper MMO (like Eve Online) a noob should have the ability to kill an elite vet, providing he is smarter and knows how to lay a trap. In Eve, you could get a couple hundred day one players and have them form a group and they could kill the crap out of much older players providing they were coordinated properly. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible.

In WoW, you could get 5000 level 1s and have them hammer a level 85 and nothing would happen. Nothing at all. That's because WoW has awful game mechanics that ruin the game. Level and gear determine the success of a player, not his skill or creativity.

Microtransactions are great. If developers know how to actually make a proper game.

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

In Eve Online, I could spend like $200K and simply buy everything in that motherfucker. And then, I would lose it all. You know why? Because buying items or gear doesn't mean you know how to use them. You also know what's great about Eve? Like IRL, everything you own can be stolen, taken or destroyed.

Giving motherfuckers the means to buy gear won't ruin a game. Unbalancing and a poor implementation of PVP mechanics will ruin the game. Shit like WoW and other mainstream MMOs are too gear dependant. In a proper MMO (like Eve Online) a noob should have the ability to kill an elite vet, providing he is smarter and knows how to lay a trap. In Eve, you could get a couple hundred day one players and have them form a group and they could kill the crap out of much older players providing they were coordinated properly. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is possible.

In WoW, you could get 5000 level 1s and have them hammer a level 85 and nothing would happen. Nothing at all. That's because WoW has awful game mechanics that ruin the game. Level and gear determine the success of a player, not his skill or creativity.

Microtransactions are great. If developers know how to actually make a proper game.

I agree with what you are saying about pvp mechanics, and that system certainly does seem as though it would greatly limit the advantages of purchasing in-game items. It would be great to see such mechanics applied to a high fantasy setting, I would purchase that game in a heartbeat.

But just because one gaming model limits those advantages does not mean a single thing for most other games out there. It's silly to say that my argument has failed.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Lady Julily

I agree with what you are saying about pvp mechanics, and that system certainly does seem as though it would greatly limit the advantages of purchasing in-game items. It would be great to see such mechanics applied to a high fantasy setting, I would purchase that game in a heartbeat.

But just because one gaming model limits those advantages does not mean a single thing for most other games out there. It's silly to say that my argument has failed.

Your argument was gay to begin with. I have a different way of defeating your argument. Here it comes: it's just a game. Take your metagaming faggot ass and go for a walk. If motherfuckers are willing to spend a ton of cash on in game items, then let them. There's obviously a market for this. It's not the fault of the video game industry, it's the fault of the consumers. You are a minority.

And the fact that Blizzard has included the consumer in their business model, giving everyone the option to sell virtual property to fools is just awesome. I hail Blizzard for this.

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Your argument was gay to begin with. I have a different way of defeating your argument. Here it comes: it's just a game. Take your metagaming faggot ass and go for a walk. If motherfuckers are willing to spend a ton of cash on in game items, then let them. There's obviously a market for this. It's not the fault of the video game industry, it's the fault of the consumers. You are a minority.

And the fact that Blizzard has included the consumer in their business model, giving everyone the option to sell virtual property to fools is just awesome. I hail Blizzard for this.

I like to romanticize things, it's a problem sometimes. It's just so saddening that something that should be so pure and artistic has been corrupted. The consumer never really seems to know what is good for them.

I probably will be buying the game, and yes, I probably will be selling much of the good items I receive to losers. Maybe the game will pay for itself :/

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Lady Julily

I like to romanticize things, it's a problem sometimes. It's just so saddening that something that should be so pure and artistic has been corrupted. The consumer never really seems to know what is good for them.

I probably will be buying the game, and yes, I probably will be selling much of the good items I receive to losers. Maybe the game will pay for itself :/

None of those games were every good to begin with.

The fact that you're too dumb to see this is just retarded. WoW type games aren't skill based. They're investment based. They reward the people who buy into the system. With a subscription model, you want people to keep coming back. To do that, you get them to grind. Now, grinding isn't useful to the consumer. It won't make you learn skills, because you're doing repetitive shit that you don't like. But you have to grind in order to get the phat lewtz. So you do it. However, those who don't have the time to grind, will never get the phat lewtz and will be "bad" at the game because motherfuckers who outgear them will end up winning.

Microtransaction model is exactly the same, only here money replaces time. Instead of having to spend months grinding a bitch, you can just use money you've already invested time in by earning it, and exchanging it for virtual property. Either way, you're creating a fucking mess. Neither system make a game good, or bad. It's the play mechanics themselves that make or break a game.

Diablo will have shitty PVP because Blizzard caters to bitches. They will never implement a proper PVP system like Eve has because that shit is too brutal for pubies and bitches.

[Duelist]

see, that argument is plain ol' invalid snoops. When a game rewards you with loot from spending some time in a dungeon or whatever, it is doing so within a closed system. You do 'work' within the game to get the loot. When you spend outside cash on loot you are doing work outside of the game that is inaccessible to other players.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Duelist

see, that argument is plain ol' invalid snoops. When a game rewards you with loot from spending some time in a dungeon or whatever, it is doing so within a closed system. You do 'work' within the game to get the loot. When you spend outside cash on loot you are doing work outside of the game that is inaccessible to other players.

When you herp, you derp. You're a moron and I won't waste time pointing out why, because my previous post already does exactly that fairly well.

[Duelist]

but you're taking money from OUTSIDE the game with this system where before you were spending time INSIDE the game.

seems like a pretty big difference to me.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Duelist

but you're taking money from OUTSIDE the game with this system where before you were spending time INSIDE the game.

seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Seems to me like you can't read and/or are retarded.

[Shrike]

This shit is over ten years old, in fact like I said it's pretty much existed since MMOs became popular. Seems somewhat late to be crying about it.

[Om Namah Shivaya]

Originally Posted by Shrike

This shit is over ten years old, in fact like I said it's pretty much existed since MMOs became popular. Seems somewhat late to be crying about it.

Guess what happens when we allow it to propagate? It takes over the entire video game industry.

90+% of the games that come out are absolute SHIT that are only there to make money, not provide new and innovative gaming experiences. The companies that still try to make good games will soon thin even more and finally disappear after they are unable to compete in the gaming industry because the public's money-voting power will sway in favor of the shit games.

Video games will continue to evolve into a machine that makes some people money while completely dumbing down the players. And there will be those who enjoy it, there will be those who hate it. And of course there will always be those who just ignore it and trust that everything will be alright in the end, just trust in economy and america. That never fails. We're #1 in the entire universe after all.

[Lady Julily]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

None of those games were every good to begin with.

The fact that you're too dumb to see this is just retarded. WoW type games aren't skill based. They're investment based. They reward the people who buy into the system. With a subscription model, you want people to keep coming back. To do that, you get them to grind. Now, grinding isn't useful to the consumer. It won't make you learn skills, because you're doing repetitive shit that you don't like. But you have to grind in order to get the phat lewtz. So you do it. However, those who don't have the time to grind, will never get the phat lewtz and will be "bad" at the game because motherfuckers who outgear them will end up winning.

Microtransaction model is exactly the same, only here money replaces time. Instead of having to spend months grinding a bitch, you can just use money you've already invested time in by earning it, and exchanging it for virtual property. Either way, you're creating a fucking mess. Neither system make a game good, or bad. It's the play mechanics themselves that make or break a game.

Diablo will have shitty PVP because Blizzard caters to bitches. They will never implement a proper PVP system like Eve has because that shit is too brutal for pubies and bitches.

The attitude that you have toward MMOs is also something I see as a problem with the industry today. The attitude that the game itself has to be an investment toward something bigger, and it can't be enjoyed just as a fun experience on its own. Really I think WoW helped cause this. When I played EQ, grinding was a good thing and often an enjoyable experience, because the game was so difficult that in order for most classes to progress in levels or gear they were required to group, and work well with one another. When I play modern MMOs, what I really miss from EQ was a sense of community. You made friends, got to understand the politics on your server, and really knew who some characters were and what they were about. With no instances and limited exp/loot locations, pvp incentives did not need to be artificially added in, as you see in WoW. Though the item loot did help, and sometimes you were at risk of losing items worth hundreds of hours of camp time. Because of this, you made real enemies, and when you fought them it really felt like you were competing for real reasons. You grew with the community, as a part of it.

I think a good MMO should be like a great fantasy novel that you are a part of, with player-driven politics and a sort of sandbox experience. These "bro" gamers, though, have turned what should be a fun social roleplaying experience into a boring grind they just want to get through. It's sad that a large portion of the game has just become a means to the end. And it's especially sad that some people feel as though they should be able to spend real money instead of experiencing what could be one of the best parts of a well made game.

WoW has been so terrible for the genre.

[Snoopy]

If you want good MMO community, again I have to mention Eve Online. Althuogh in Eve I'm sure you'll have far more enemies than friends. But that still has got nothing to do with the topic of microtransactions vs subscription.

To recap:

Microtransaction = investment of real life money.
Subscription = investment of time spent on tedious gameplay.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Om Namah Shivaya

Guess what happens when we allow it to propagate? It takes over the entire video game industry.

90+% of the games that come out are absolute SHIT that are only there to make money, not provide new and innovative gaming experiences. The companies that still try to make good games will soon thin even more and finally disappear after they are unable to compete in the gaming industry because the public's money-voting power will sway in favor of the shit games.

Video games will continue to evolve into a machine that makes some people money while completely dumbing down the players. And there will be those who enjoy it, there will be those who hate it. And of course there will always be those who just ignore it and trust that everything will be alright in the end, just trust in economy and america. That never fails. We're #1 in the entire universe after all.

crybaby

[Duelist]

so how fun would your beloved eve online be if players could just buy level ups instead of having to wait for the time it takes for your skills to level? it would defeat much of the excitement that is derived from that game. I've never played the game (well, I did for a weekend once), but this is the impression I get.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Duelist

so how fun would your beloved eve online be if players could just buy level ups instead of having to wait for the time it takes for your skills to level? it would defeat much of the excitement that is derived from that game. I've never played the game (well, I did for a weekend once), but this is the impression I get.

Yes, because waiting for your shit to level up while doing nothing is very exciting.

It's part of the subscription mechanic. And it's piss. Fortunately, you can pay your subscription with in game currency by selling it to other players for RL cash. In a sense, you can buy levels in Eve Online. And it's awesome.

Obviously you know nothing of the game so just shut the fuck up.

[Infidel Castro]

THIS SAME SHIT HAPPENED IN DIABLO 2

d2items.com

Only it wasn't through Blizzard. Now they're just cashing in on morons willing to buy shit they could earn if they played the game. The kind of retard who buys this stuff isn't ruining the game cause it's very doubtful they're even interested in playing for an extended period of time.

[Lucid]

All Blizzard is doing is bringing the market home and putting that money in their own pockets as opposed to Chinese farmers. What's the difference? Good on 'em...