Who is God more likely to forgive

[Daily]

A person who lives their life in a "moral" manner (what the Bible sees as morally good) but rejects the belief of God.

or

A person who lives their life in sin and believes in God.

[Rolf]

God will forgive both, but this does not mean that God will not punish both, proclaims Rolf.

[Daily]

So he'll forgive us but then send us to Hell anyway? By the way, isn't Satan the good guy since he punishes bad people?

[Zanick]

Does the second person have faith in God and salvation through Jesus Christ?

I remember these kinds of questions in my religious education class, he always picks the sinner because the moral guy can't be moral without God.

[Daily]

Originally Posted by zanick

Does the second person have faith in God and salvation through Jesus Christ?

Yes. However, he murders, rapes, steals, manipulates and preys on the weak.

[Rolf]

Originally Posted by Daily

So he'll forgive us but then send us to Hell anyway? By the way, isn't Satan the good guy since he punishes bad people?

God does not send one to Hell nor does He send one to heaven, basically Hell and Heaven are the same place and all people go there after death, states Rolf. All will be in the presence of God and all shall feel His fire, the way one feels this divine fire is effected directly by the condition of one's soul, explains Rolf. Those with pure souls will feel divine love and those with impure souls shall feel pain and burning, adds Rolf.

[Kwinnie Bogan]

It's a little hard to say completely as Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists, Methodists and Mormons all follow the bible and don't necessarily share views. Roman Catholics For example have a reputation of being particularity damning to use an appropriate turn of phrase.

In a Lutheran context - real German Lutheran that is, not bible thumping American kind - the sinner will receive God's forgiveness more readily by a large margin, especially if they repent (although that word and to a point concept is more often associated with Catholicism), UNLESS the first guy doesn't believe in God simply because he is ignorant. If that were the case it's not so clear cut, it'd be a tie, most likely as the only kind of forgiveness is Gods full forgiveness, and both would receive it.

[reject]

Originally Posted by Daily

So he'll forgive us but then send us to Hell anyway? By the way, isn't Satan the good guy since he punishes bad people?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreaso...lucifer-memes/

[Kwinnie Bogan]

Originally Posted by zanick

Does the second person have faith in God and salvation through Jesus Christ?

I remember these kinds of questions in my religious education class, he always picks the sinner because the moral guy can't be moral without God.

Morals are built upon religion and religion is built upon morals.

[ArmsMerchant]

God does not "forgive," as he/she/it/them/whatever cannot be harmed or offended--thus, no need to forgive.

We domesticated primates, however, need to forgive and forgive and forgive again, if we are to have peace of mind, and find salvation.

[CountBlah]

[Built To Last]

Originally Posted by Daily

A person who lives their life in a "moral" manner (what the Bible sees as morally good) but rejects the belief of God.

Ever heard the saying "God is good"? To do "good" necessitates belief in God. What is "good" is of the same substance as God.

A person who lives their life in sin and believes in God.

"Sin" is the absence of God or actions that lead away from God. Belief brings one closer to God and sin places him farther away.

[moonturtle]

oh god not this thread

[Iehovah]

God isn't in the business of forgiving. All he wants is your cold hard tithes, and you can get in his good books by sending me your 10 bucks now.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by reject

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreaso...lucifer-memes/

This. If the Bible was actually right, I'd totally be on Satan's side. Guy is a freedom fighter who thinks humans should decide their own destiny instead of living under the iron fist of God.

Sounds like a good dude to me.

[Built To Last]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

This. If the Bible was actually right, I'd totally be on Satan's side. Guy is a freedom fighter who thinks humans should decide their own destiny instead of living under the iron fist of God.

Sounds like a good dude to me.

Really? I mean look at where this notion that "humans decide their own destiny" has gotten us: death, war, hatred, famine, starvation, doubt, capitalism, slavery, etc. This is otherwise known as the wisdom of Man over and against the wisdom of God. It seems to me that when Man thinks too much of himself he forgets the most basic and essential fact of God-Wisdom: we are all One.

[Figure-8]

Satan as a light bearer is an ancient concept, partly kept hidden.

Most, if not all of the Bible and other ancient (almost) texts are based upon metaphor.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Built To Last

Really? I mean look at where this notion that "humans decide their own destiny" has gotten us: death, war, hatred, famine, starvation, doubt, capitalism, slavery, etc. This is otherwise known as the wisdom of Man over and against the wisdom of God. It seems to me that when Man thinks too much of himself he forgets the most basic and essential fact of God-Wisdom: we are all One.

Except a lot of that was done in God's name, never forget that.

Also, that's the price of free will. The alternative is to be a Godbot, spending existence in Eden with no knowledge of what that luxury even means. Dumb, happy pets for God to come down and play with when he's tired of launching jizz at Jupiter.

More importantly, not much in the Bible actually happened. So this argument is kinda pointless.

[AMFYOYO]

Moot question OP, you are god.

[DJ Meaty Cheeks]

Neither because there is no god. Deal with it.

[The Pat-Man]

Originally Posted by Daily

So he'll forgive us but then send us to Hell anyway? By the way, isn't Satan the good guy since he punishes bad people?

ive wondered this for years

[HampTheToker]

Originally Posted by Built To Last

Ever heard the saying "God is good"? To do "good" necessitates belief in God. What is "good" is of the same substance as God.



"Sin" is the absence of God or actions that lead away from God. Faith brings one closer to God and sin places him farther away.

Tweaked to reflect spiritual terminology. Faith is an important tenant for just about any religion or spiritual teaching. Faith that what you believe is true and greater than yourself. Otherwise, dead on.

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Except a lot of that was done (by people independent of God's Will and) in God's name, never forget that...

Fixt for you. Adam and Eve chose to live and decide independent of God's Will. This was sin. This choice lead to man living independent of God through his will alone with a curse that one day his body would die, because man is not God. We were created in his image, but we are not God. We chose to choose outside of God's Wisdom; to choose right and wrong and good and evil as we could best understand them with a mortal mind and body and spirit. The Bible says the wages for sin is death. All sin equally. And, this is the price Christ paid.

/Christianity 101

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Also, that's the price of free will. The alternative is to be a Godbot, spending existence in Eden with no knowledge of what that luxury even means. Dumb, happy pets for God to come down and play with when he's tired of launching jizz at Jupiter.

More importantly, not much in the Bible actually happened. So this argument is kinda pointless.

When you've known Good and Evil and have given your death, you will know how to appreciate reward and punishment. This is accountability for ones life. Is spiritual judgement of one's life really so much different than how we live as a people already with our laws and societies, institutions and nations? Christianity isn't hard to understand to some degree if you at least try for longer than five minutes at bible.com.

Also...

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...t_to_the_Bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...e_view_desktop

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by HampTheToker

Tweaked to reflect spiritual terminology. Faith is an important tenant for just about any religion or spiritual teaching. Faith that what you believe is true and greater than yourself. Otherwise, dead on.



Fixt for you. Adam and Eve chose to live and decide independent of God's Will. This was sin. This choice lead to man living independent of God through his will alone with a curse that one day his body would die, because man is not God. We were created in his image, but we are not God. We chose to choose outside of God's Wisdom; to choose right and wrong and good and evil as we could best understand them with a mortal mind and body and spirit. The Bible says the wages for sin is death. All sin equally. And, this is the price Christ paid.

/Christianity 101



When you've known Good and Evil and have given your death, you will know how to appreciate reward and punishment. This is accountability for ones life. Is spiritual judgement of one's life really so much different than how we live as a people already with our laws and societies, institutions and nations? Christianity isn't hard to understand to some degree if you at least try for longer than five minutes at bible.com.

Also...

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...t_to_the_Bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...e_view_desktop

I read the entire Bible, cover to cover. And that's why I said nearly. The Bible references real places and things. Doesn't mean that God exists.

[HampTheToker]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

I read the entire Bible, cover to cover. And that's why I said nearly. The Bible references real places and things. Doesn't mean that God exists.

I didn't say it did. That would be proof, now wouldn't it? What is faith if people have proof?

No one can prove it either way. No one has. No one will. Even in this day and age, we still have a choice and none of God's DNA to prove which religion got it right; no DNA to prove if He is God, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, etc, and so on.

How much of the Bible do you think is historically accurate considering the accuracy of other historical works from the same period? In percentage....

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by HampTheToker

I didn't say it did. That would be proof, now wouldn't it? What is faith if people have proof?

No one can prove it either way. No one has. No one will. Even in this day and age, we still have a choice and none of God's DNA to prove which religion got it right; no DNA to prove if He is God, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, etc, and so on.

How much of the Bible do you think is historically accurate considering the accuracy of other historical works from the same period? In percentage....

Considering over half of it just logs the Jewish way of life and their history, at least 60% or so. If you want to know the history of the Hebrews, it's pretty accurate. Minus the "God leading them around" part.

Jesus probably existed and hey, maybe he was a carpenter. I'd even wager that he was indeed batshit insane and told everyone he was God.

So around 75-85% of the Bible is probably accurate, in terms of referring to places and things that exist.

[HampTheToker]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Considering over half of it just logs the Jewish way of life and their history, at least 60% or so. If you want to know the history of the Hebrews, it's pretty accurate. Minus the "God leading them around" part.

Jesus probably existed and hey, maybe he was a carpenter. I'd even wager that he was indeed batshit insane and told everyone he was God.

So around 75-85% of the Bible is probably accurate, in terms of referring to places and things that exist.

His teaching must have made some sense if we're still discussing them over 2,000 years after He lived His life. Some would call that the epitome of relevance. Among other historic events, of course.

[The Pat-Man]

lol if jesus was alive today hed just be another crazy minority homeless man preaching at passers by.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by HampTheToker

His teaching must have made some sense if we're still discussing them over 2,000 years after He lived His life. Some would call that the epitome of relevance. Among other historic events, of course.

He has interesting moral lessons, many of which are applicable. Mostly, it's still around because of the Roman Empire and behemoth it spawned, the Roman Catholic Church.

Also, many religions are still around. Pretty sure Buddhism is still around. Though it's a bit different, of course.

[HampTheToker]

Originally Posted by The Pat-Man

lol if jesus was alive today hed just be another crazy minority homeless man preaching at passers by.

Timing is everything lil nig. Jesus made a profound impact in this world without the use of Twitter or FB and is still relevant. The message was clear and made it through history. Son of God or no, that's still impressive for a man, especially if they all labeled him a crazy. Einstein didn't like being labeled retarded because he was misunderstood, either.

[Figure-8]

Originally Posted by The Pat-Man

lol if jesus was alive today hed just be another crazy minority homeless man preaching at passers by.

Remove satan.

[Issue313]

Originally Posted by The Pat-Man

lol if jesus was alive today hed just be another crazy minority homeless man preaching at passers by.

No, he'd be more like David Blaine or Chris Angel or Uri Geller, batshit crazy and an egomaniac, but able to put on a fairly decent magic show. Its the magic show, not the bullshit morality, that keeps Christians coming back.

More joy in heaven over 1 sinner who repents than 99 of the righteous? God must be pretty stupad.

Water into Wine? OMFG, PROOF!!! Our God is an awesome god!!!

[Figure-8]

T h a t 's b r a i n w a s h i n g

BRAINWASHING!

[WeaselKit]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Except a lot of that was done in God's name, never forget that.

Also, that's the price of free will. The alternative is to be a Godbot, spending existence in Eden with no knowledge of what that luxury even means..

This is false as Heaven will be inhabited by people who once lived on the corrupt earth. People who CHOSE to serve God before the judgement, therefore they will (hopefully) continue to choose to serve God in Heaven.

[DirtySanchez]

Originally Posted by Rolf

God will forgive both, but this does not mean that God will not punish both, proclaims Rolf.

No he wont. The only path to heaven is through accepting Christ. We are saved by grace alone and by accepting him. Good deeds alone won't get you into heaven. As for a sinner who still believes in God we are all sinners and have all fallen short of the glory of God.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by WeaselKit

This is false as Heaven will be inhabited by people who once lived on the corrupt earth. People who CHOSE to serve God before the judgement, therefore they will (hopefully) continue to choose to serve God in Heaven.

You're missing the whole point. The Biblical God makes zero sense. There's no evidence of existence, and if it did it contradicts itself constantly. The Bible was written by crafty cavemen and has no place in modern life.

[Proots]

If we assume and/or pretend for a minute that there is a "God" - then, who the fuck knows anything about what he/she/it wants?

[WeaselKit]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Considering over half of it just logs the Jewish way of life and their history, at least 60% or so. If you want to know the history of the Hebrews, it's pretty accurate. Minus the "God leading them around" part.

Jesus probably existed and hey, maybe he was a carpenter. I'd even wager that he was indeed batshit insane and told everyone he was God.

So around 75-85% of the Bible is probably accurate, in terms of referring to places and things that exist.

The crazy thing about this is that the Bible isn't a freaking book that was written like any conventional book. It is a compilation of letters to churches in those actual places that we KNOW existed. If it was all made up craziness then these people would KNOW it was bullshit because they were still freaking alive when all that shit went down, the authors even point that out themselves.

If you're going to write some bullshit, you don't write it to people who know for a fact you're bullshitting and if people know your bullshitting, there is no way in hell they would change the way they live in so much that they worship a guy they know was killed and keep your crazy letter, preserving and copying it.

The biggest evidence I see in making the Bible more than plausible is the fact that the Appostles endured horrific torture, punishment and died in horrible ways but they, ALL FREAKING 12 continued to preach and never recanted anything. Then, those people who also knew about Jesus continued to worship him even though it meant they had to put up with being executed by angry romans and pharisees. The fact that Saul (paul) the number one pharisee badass become an apostle is starling enough.

[-SpectraL]

There's no such thing as Hell. Hell is a clever creation created by the Catholics (The Harlot) in order to enslave the masses through fear and intimidation. Nowhere in the Bible is Hell mentioned as real. Instead, the Bible refers to a figurative everlasting destruction of the wicked, Gehenna. No author of the Bible ever referred to Gehenna as being real, but only to indicate the finality and the reality of everlasting nonexistence... to get across the idea that it would be as if that person had been thrown into a burning sulfur pit, forever extinguished in its fiery rage. Gehenna was actually a garbage pit the Romans used to burn their garbage, which consisted of a huge mound of ignited sulfur which burned day and night. Nobody goes to Hell to be tormented day and night when they die. Nobody... not even the very wicked. As is witnessed from the Great Design itself, with all its marvelous inter-workings of awe-inspiring beauty, our Creator is not a monster, but rather a thoughtful, loving, reasonable individual. He does not wish any to be forever extinguished, as a bag of useless garbage may be extinguished in a fiery pit, but He desires all to attain to repentance. He certainly does not condone the torture of individuals, whether they be good or bad ones.

[WeaselKit]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

You're missing the whole point. The Biblical God makes zero sense. There's no evidence of existence, and if it did it contradicts itself constantly. The Bible was written by crafty cavemen and has no place in modern life.

You're a dumbass. The thread was started with the supposition that God exists. We are not arguing whether or not the Bible makes sense or if there is evidence.

and the answer to the OP is the second one because

1) Everyone is a sinner and according to the Bible, anyone who claims to have no sin is a liar. Therefore, we who believe are ALL PERSON B

2) Person A cannot be forgiven unless they repent and ask for forgiveness. How could they ask for forgiveness if they don't know/believe in the person they need to ask for that forgiveness?

[WeaselKit]

Originally Posted by -SpectraL

There's no such thing as Hell. Hell is a clever creation created by the Catholics (The Harlot) in order to enslave the masses through fear and intimidation. Nowhere in the Bible is Hell mentioned as real. Instead, the Bible refers to a figurative everlasting destruction of the wicked, Gehenna. No author of the Bible ever referred to Gehenna as being real, but only to indicate the finality and the reality of everlasting nonexistence... to get across the idea that it would be as if that person had been thrown into a burning sulfur pit, forever extinguished in its fiery rage. Gehenna was actually a garbage pit the Romans used to burn their garbage, which consisted of a huge mound of ignited sulfur which burned day and night. Nobody goes to Hell to be tormented day and night when they die. Nobody... not even the very wicked. As is witnessed from the Great Design itself, with all its marvelous inter-workings of awe-inspiring beauty, our Creator is not a monster, but rather a thoughtful, loving, reasonable individual. He does not wish any to be forever extinguished, as a bag of useless garbage may be extinguished in a fiery pit, but He desires all to attain to repentance. He certainly does not condone the torture of individuals, whether they be good or bad ones.

This is also false, some Jahovas Witness bullshit at that.
Hell is mentioned 54 times in the Bible and if it were referring to nonexistence, one would not feel unquenchable fire for eternity.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/searc...ria=hell&t=KJV

Hell is clearly depicted in the story of Lazerous and the Rich Man.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...31&version=NIV