Fiat? Thoughts?

[skygear]

I just bought a 2012 Fiat 500 Sport as a graduation present for my sister-in-law. Not much research on my part went into it. As a spur of the moment purchase, she was anxious to show me her dream car. So when I realized how level headed and down to earth the idea was, I felt she deserved it.

I asked her to run down the street and when she came back, I was already finished with the paperwork. I asked her to order some food too. So while she was running around doing the small tasks I asked her to, they were fueling, detailing and putting plates on it.

We finished the take out that was delivered and walked outside to leave. She saw the car with the plates on it and said "Oh sugar, someone bought it already. Oh Well, I'll save up and get my own one day..." As I tossed her the keys. "Congratulations, keep up the good work in school. I'm proud of you."

I drove it. But 101hp is a little less than I'm used to. My current vehicle is getting supercharged in a couple months and am currently ~325hp...

Hp to weight ratios are off but the little Fiat Moves. I inquired about the Abarth - apparently only a small number came in to the country and sold as soon as the dealers had a VIN for them.

Mini was another option but her face lit up when we hit the Fiat dealership. Mini had what I was looking for personally. The service agreement, HP, better looks, more room, run flat tires, Trunk space...

But it wasn't for me.

[The Pat-Man]

well seeing as you just bought a car for someone who isnt your blood relative, you are obv rollin in cash.


lend me like a 20.


side note: i herd fiat 5000s blow ass but most cars now do anyways. planned obsolescence and all that.

[Synopix]

Car looks gay as fuck.
/thread

[skygear]

Yeah , I wasn't too keen on the looks either, but she was all into it. Not the typical 'I want a Ferrari, or a Mercedes, etc...' No, a reasonable priced vehicle. Her DREAM Car! Having reachable goals, wants, etc. was a huge eye opener for me. My dream car as a kid was a Jeep Wrangler - like Mac Gyver had. As I matured and rode in many different vehicles, I wanted to own an H1 Alpha. I do a lot of outdoor activities and off-roading, so its a practical vehicle for my WANTS, but not my needs.

Her on the other hand, has been obsessing over it for years. Now that she is in college on her way to becoming a doctor, well, anything I can do to help her and keep her focused on her studies and grades that within reason. Done...

If anyone has any first hand experience with a FIAT other than it being an ugly vehicle - please chime in. Safety, maintenance , etc.

[Jerk.]

Pretty ugly.

[Issue313]

Sensible purchase, now you'll be able to guilt trip her for scripts when you're a crotchety old man.

[skygear]

So far a non issue - (Scripts) - I have an Veit Doctor that gives me whatever I want/ need with no hassles.

[ratfrink]

It'll look incredibly dated in a couple of years when the retro thing goes out of fashion. It's a nice enough car; economical (well, not the 101hp version, but the TwinAir is astoundingly good on fuel), very small on the outside but it has more legroom and a much larger boot than the MINI. The best thing about it is the interior (which the regulars have heard me bang on about time and time again).



I accept that people might not like the styling, but the amount of effort that has gone into the design, and the quality of the materials, in a relatively cheap car, is astonishing. For the money, this is by far the best interior in any car today. Honestly, I think that the design and materials are equal to anything that the Germans are making, for a third of the price.

[ArmsMerchant]

I always liked Fiats--first one was a 1969 128 Spyder, which my first wife got in the divorce settlement in 1972.

Last one was a 1980 X1/9, I gave to my current wife in 1989 or so. It is now a lawn ornament in the yard of our old place.

My overall impression--lots of fun, but kind of flimsy.

[ratfrink]

They used to have a reputation for unreliability and rust, but that's entirely untrue with modern Fiats.

Heck, my mother's slightly-old Fiat Punto has 250k on the clock and it's still going strong with only regular service repairs (had a new clutch and a couple of exhausts but that's about it). And it gets 65mpg on a long, calm motorway run - well, I can get that out of it if I try; were you to drive it 'normally' it gets about 55.

[MediumD]

The Abarth is actually kinda cool. Not the car, but the engine. As for this one, it's a boring econobox, which I find to be ugly inside and out. But the point of an econobox is to go somewhere for cheap, which this should be perfectly capable of.

[ratfrink]

The 101hp version should not be boring; it's plenty enough to make a light car go. And they handle pretty well, apparently, too. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the handling has been de-tuned for the American market.

[Ph0x]

Fix
It
Again,
Tony

[MediumD]

Originally Posted by ratfrink

The 101hp version should not be boring; it's plenty enough to make a light car go. And they handle pretty well, apparently, too. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the handling has been de-tuned for the American market.

Originally Posted by ratfrink

The 101hp version should not be boring; it's plenty enough to make a light car go. And they handle pretty well, apparently, too. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the handling has been de-tuned for the American market.

Let me tell you why I think it's nothing more than an acceptable, but not great, econobox.

My econobox single cam Saturn makes 1hp less, 16ft.lbs. more torque, and officially weighs 12lbs less than the 500. The 2 magazine 1/4 mile tests I spent 30 seconds finding say the Saturn should have a half second advantage. And my Saturn is quite the boring car to drive. Assuming the Fiat is an automatic, it gets about the same fuel economy (my Saturn is a manual,) and has more passenger room in every listed measurement. It's GM's cheapest car from 12 years ago, and still comparable or better in almost every measure than the 500. I haven't looked into it, but I'm going to guess the 500 is better in a crash..

[Township Rebellion]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised people here think the 500 is ugly. It isn't; you guys are just being typically macho about it, the car is irrefutably NOT ugly, however personally the excessive cuteness it has isn't to my taste.

I've heard good things about new Fiats, and I've had one come through my work. The interior design is decent, at least quite pleasing to the eye, but I didn't spend much time going over it. Apparently Fiats aren't really unreliable anymore however, and if quality has improved that much then I'm certainly happy to see more italian cars around.

To be honest though, I care more about seeing Alfa Romeo stage a comeback over here. They need to ditch the front drive hatches though and start going after BMW with some hawt little RWD sport sedans and coupes, like they used to make. Maybe with some decent competition BMW will stop fiddling around with those stupid fatass SUV's and crossovers and put more effort into pandering to enthusiasts instead of douchebags and their chrome rimzzzz.

[ratfrink]

D, I don't think you can rate how enjoyable a car is purely by its 1/4 times.

But then again, if all you do is drive on the freeway, maybe you can.

Townie, I'm buying a rival to your old BMW. Possibly.

[MediumD]

Enjoyable can be different than exciting, the car could be enjoyable to own without being exciting to drive. But nothing that is THAT slow to accelerate is going to be especially exciting to drive anywhere but something like a parking lot autocross where speeds don't top 20mph.

[Township Rebellion]

^^^lol, D fails at driving irresponsibly. Face it man, you don't have fun roads where you live, and what few there are you've probably never driven something light and focused at maximum attack on said road either. Keeping a lower powered car on the boil is extremely exciting and clearly an aspect that isn't part of your automotive palette.

You have no idea what you're missing. Man I've been to Albuquerque, I know what your roads are like. Sure you can go out of town a bit and find some corners but the vast majority of roads are extra wide and arrow straight. Just not conducive to the sort of excitement ratfrink might be referring to.

INB4 "you're not supposed to speed like that on public roads rabble rabble". Well... where else then? Because parking lot autocrosses just don't cut it.

Edit: also INB4 street racing is bad, Im not talking about street racing.

[slicknickns]

I valet cars for a living and recently drove one, my only gripe being the lack of tangible door locks. Luckily I drove a manual, clutch is similar to a Honda's or other similarly easy to drive car. Shifted OK --- but good for a cheap car. A few weeks before I drove it, I sat in one with my girlfriend at an Italian-American festival, we fell in love with them.

I'm seriously considering buying when I get into the military, show off my proud Italian heritage, get the Abarth and finally have a car that's easy to parallel park and cheap to drive.

[STEROS]

needs some spinners.

[Township Rebellion]

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Townie, I'm buying a rival to your old BMW. Possibly.

Woah woah woah, hold the phone. I missed this. Are you buying an Alfa?



DO IT FAGGOT.

[ratfrink]

No no no no no. It's a barge. I'm going to have a look at it tomorrow.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Township Rebellion

^^^lol, D fails at driving irresponsibly. Face it man, you don't have fun roads where you live, and what few there are you've probably never driven something light and focused at maximum attack on said road either. Keeping a lower powered car on the boil is extremely exciting and clearly an aspect that isn't part of your automotive palette... the sort of excitement ratfrink might be referring to.

My MG Midget was the most fun car I've ever driven (including a 535i, a Jaguar E-Type and an MX5, and dozens of other customers' cars) and that only had 65hp when it was new. Nothing I've driven has ever come close to feeling as sharp and direct as that car, except a go-kart. On the ridiculously twisty mountain roads you find in Europe, the limiting factor to speed/enjoyment is the chassis and suspension, not the engine.

Heck, I find my work van fun to drive, on the country roads to work. That had 70hp when it was new, 250,000 miles ago. Would it be more fun with a more powerful engine? No, it'd be a waste; all I'd end up doing is overheating the brakes.

[skygear]

When I was a kid, my father had a Spitfire and an Alpha Romeo. I was promised both of them and they were put in storage for me when we left the country. As I got older, my aunt got ahold of the keys and wrecked BOTH of them in less than a year. TOTAL LOSS! Boy, as a kid - it was my first brush with heart break.

As for the HP - > My sister in-law doesn't weigh more than her cars HP Suits her well

[Zok Jr.]

Originally Posted by skygear

When I was a kid, my father had a Spitfire and an Alpha Romeo. I was promised both of them and they were put in storage for me when we left the country. As I got older, my aunt got ahold of the keys and wrecked BOTH of them in less than a year. TOTAL LOSS! Boy, as a kid - it was my first brush with heart break.

As for the HP - > My sister in-law doesn't weigh more than her cars HP Suits her well

I hope you stabbed her or something along those lines.

[MediumD]

Originally Posted by Township Rebellion

^^^lol, D fails at driving irresponsibly. Face it man, you don't have fun roads where you live, and what few there are you've probably never driven something light and focused at maximum attack on said road either. Keeping a lower powered car on the boil is extremely exciting and clearly an aspect that isn't part of your automotive palette.

You have no idea what you're missing. Man I've been to Albuquerque, I know what your roads are like. Sure you can go out of town a bit and find some corners but the vast majority of roads are extra wide and arrow straight. Just not conducive to the sort of excitement ratfrink might be referring to.

INB4 "you're not supposed to speed like that on public roads rabble rabble". Well... where else then? Because parking lot autocrosses just don't cut it.

Edit: also INB4 street racing is bad, Im not talking about street racing.

Le Sigh.

How in the BLUE FUCKING HELL is a Fiat 500 Sport "something light and focused at maximum attack?" It's SLOW. How many caps do I need to talk about a mediocre econobox? Fuck, how many sentence-enhancing swear words do I goddamn well need? It's NOT a respectable performance oriented car in the GODDAMN slightest! Next thing I know, you two are going to suck off a PIECE OF SHIT New Beetle.

Assuming you meant that the driver is driving a light car at maximum attack, try driving one of those solar cars that universities build around any kind of a track. They're lighter than half the motorcycles on the road, and I'm sure you at MAXIMUM ATTACK would get one around a track quicker than a goddamn MCLAREN F1, because F1s are way heavier.

This is NOT a Miata. It's NOT a M1. It's NOT a FR-S. It's a fucking econobox, why are you defending it with straw-man attacks?

[MediumD]

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Heck, I find my work van fun to drive, on the country roads to work.

Oh for fucks sake. I have a Freightliner Century. That's a LORRY to you, a HCV. It's RLY RLY awesome to drive, I'd love to take it around the Nurburgring, Fontana, or Fuji Speedway!

You have got to be kidding me.

Originally Posted by skygear

As for the HP - > My sister in-law doesn't weigh more than her cars HP Suits her well

I don't weigh more than my car's HP either. Suits me just fine. You might have meant to say that the does weigh more, depending the units of weight you were referring to.

[ratfrink]

Lol D, you accuse Townie of making a strawman argument, and then pick up on 'work van' in your next post.

You're missing the point. A car doesn't have to be a)fast or b)performance-oriented to be fun to drive. It helps, but it's not a prerequisite.

[ratfrink]

Anyway, Townie, the car I bought is a 1979 Mercedes 240d. Despite an extensive test-drive, it broke down on the way home (loss of power) then some electrical gremlins appeared.

Now I'm reading about 'how to cope with financial loss'.

[Psych]

How much fucking money do you have that you can afford to buy your sister-in-law a new car?!?

Even if you're rich, she must be blowing you or something.

[skygear]

One day, when maturity sets in, and you have a family YOU CARE ABOUT.... Well, you find a way to make ends meet and reward the just.

I have 4 children and am married. We get by and when we can, we do for others. Its not always about what we have or don't, but more about being happy with what we do have.

My sister in law doesn't ask for much in life and when she does, it is normally a reasonable want or need. SInce she was a young girl, I notices potential in her and have tried my best to help steer her in the right directions through life. She has got to see her sister make the wrong decisions and blow school as well as scholarships. She vowed to never be like her sister.

I made a promise to her that I would always be there for her when she needed me for whatever reason good or bad. No drinking, No drugs, STRAIGHT A's since she began school as a kid and works her ass off to get them too. Still a virgin also @ over 18 less than 21. Attractive, but I haven't ever considered looking at her in a different eye.

She is in school to become a doctor... Yeah, to help people. Doesn't get better than that.

You will learn my friend, all in due time.

[A$AP Weed Smoker]

Originally Posted by skygear

One day, when maturity sets in, and you have a family YOU CARE ABOUT.... Well, you find a way to make ends meet and reward the just.

I have 4 children and am married. We get by and when we can, we do for others. Its not always about what we have or don't, but more about being happy with what we do have.

My sister in law doesn't ask for much in life and when she does, it is normally a reasonable want or need. SInce she was a young girl, I notices potential in her and have tried my best to help steer her in the right directions through life. She has got to see her sister make the wrong decisions and blow school as well as scholarships. She vowed to never be like her sister.

I made a promise to her that I would always be there for her when she needed me for whatever reason good or bad. No drinking, No drugs, STRAIGHT A's since she began school as a kid and works her ass off to get them too. Still a virgin also @ over 18 less than 21. Attractive, but I haven't ever considered looking at her in a different eye.

She is in school to become a doctor... Yeah, to help people. Doesn't get better than that.

You will learn my friend, all in due time.

I would do the gnarliest rape

[skygear]

There's a button for that

Errr ahhh, a solution for every problem?

Ahhh, here it is! There's a gun for that...

[Zok Jr.]

Originally Posted by skygear

Still a virgin also @ over 18 less than 21. Attractive, but I haven't ever considered looking at her in a different eye.

Unless she is fat and nasty, there is no way in hell that is true. That simply does not happen unless you are in some Islamic country or something.

[Psych]

Originally Posted by skygear

One day, when maturity sets in, and you have a family YOU CARE ABOUT.... Well, you find a way to make ends meet and reward the just.

I have 4 children and am married. We get by and when we can, we do for others. Its not always about what we have or don't, but more about being happy with what we do have.

My sister in law doesn't ask for much in life and when she does, it is normally a reasonable want or need. SInce she was a young girl, I notices potential in her and have tried my best to help steer her in the right directions through life. She has got to see her sister make the wrong decisions and blow school as well as scholarships. She vowed to never be like her sister.

I made a promise to her that I would always be there for her when she needed me for whatever reason good or bad. No drinking, No drugs, STRAIGHT A's since she began school as a kid and works her ass off to get them too. Still a virgin also @ over 18 less than 21. Attractive, but I haven't ever considered looking at her in a different eye.

She is in school to become a doctor... Yeah, to help people. Doesn't get better than that.

You will learn my friend, all in due time.

Well aren't you just johnny appleseed. Spreading seeds of good will and cheer along the path of righteousness. You're just trying to get by in this crazy ol' world. Lordy, lordy! As everyone knows people who are just trying to get by always give away new cars. It'd be weird not to.

Don't you mod BI? Isn't that like a conflict of interest or something?

Oh and in-laws aren't family. They're replaceable.

[roasted]

Good job skygear...positive reinforcement is very powerful. She will always remember what you did for her. My aunt bought me a Jeep Wrangler (used) when I graduated high school...and I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for her. Even though that Jeep has long since passed, I still think about it almost 10 years later.

You are right. Its not about the money, its about doing good for your loved ones. Anything you can do to help is important.

A little second hand advice on med school (my sis just started her residency)....keep encouraging her. Becoming a doctor is a long and hard road. Her undergrad is just the beginning.

As far as the Fiat...I have no opinion. Its not my style; but if its her dream car, why not? There are worse options and I would think that you got a good deal since Fiat is trying to get a foot in the US market. I'm sure the car will do great for her. Cheap insurance, good gas mileage, easy to drive/park, cheap to fix.

Again, good job Sky

[ratfrink]

A new Fiat is relatively cheap compared to the costs of putting her through university.

[Township Rebellion]

Originally Posted by MediumD

Le Sigh.

How in the BLUE FUCKING HELL is a Fiat 500 Sport "something light and focused at maximum attack?" It's SLOW. How many caps do I need to talk about a mediocre econobox? Fuck, how many sentence-enhancing swear words do I goddamn well need? It's NOT a respectable performance oriented car in the GODDAMN slightest! Next thing I know, you two are going to suck off a PIECE OF SHIT New Beetle.

Assuming you meant that the driver is driving a light car at maximum attack, try driving one of those solar cars that universities build around any kind of a track. They're lighter than half the motorcycles on the road, and I'm sure you at MAXIMUM ATTACK would get one around a track quicker than a goddamn MCLAREN F1, because F1s are way heavier.

This is NOT a Miata. It's NOT a M1. It's NOT a FR-S. It's a fucking econobox, why are you defending it with straw-man attacks?

Way to be a cunt

In all seriousness, I'm determined to at least make you understand the concept of driving fast in a "slow" car. You even gave yourself a clue when you said:

But nothing that is THAT slow to accelerate is going to be especially exciting to drive anywhere but something like a parking lot autocross where speeds don't top 20mph.

The key is, on some roads you can only go so fast, because of the nature of the road. When you've only got so many straight stretches of road to accelerate, you'll find in an especially fast road car, you're really only using maybe 30-50% of your engines' power. Especially since cars with big engines are usually quite... big, the fact they take up more of the road means they have less space to work with when it comes to carving a good line. You need to brake earlier, and you have to kill more speed to get it round any corner.

That's why you're better off with a much smaller lighter car, even if it has very little power on roads like these you can have a hell of a time building incredible speed, and using every drop of energy that little piss-pot of a motor has. It's not speeding the lazy way, it's working for your progress, and this can be exciting even in what you call a slow car.

I'm going to stop there. I will agree that there are definitely more exhilerating cars than a Fiat 500 for fast driving. I again will point out, the 500 and most cars like it in general do not appeal to me. I will "defend them", however, for the simple means of educating your ass. Fiat actually builds a fast version. Have you completely forgotten about the concept of hot hatches again???



I should point out the new 500 doesn't weigh much, the heaviest version being around 2200 ibs. That's roughly 1/16ths the weight of your entire car collection, yet that Abarth makes around 160 HP. Even with front wheel drive, that is actually quite quick, faster than my car hell - and my car is a blast to drive. It's funny because, for all your bally-hooing about respectable performance, Fiat does in fact have a history in motorsport. They give a shit about handling and performance, even with their shittiest of econoboxes. They're italian. They like to drive fast. I think you'll find Abarth used giant killing variants of the original 500 for hill climbing and rallying, I think it's sufficient to say you don't know what you're talking about.



I don't think you'll ever grasp this, though. I think you're maybe too stuck in your ways, too grounded with your countrymen. You wouldn't rage that hard if you were even remotely open-minded. In the meantime, I also wanted to address Frink:

Originally Posted by ratfrink

Anyway, Townie, the car I bought is a 1979 Mercedes 240d. Despite an extensive test-drive, it broke down on the way home (loss of power) then some electrical gremlins appeared.

Now I'm reading about 'how to cope with financial loss'.

Well holy balls of robin, batman! A 240D. Did I tell you my buddy has a '74 one of those. Drove it about 600 KM round trip to Tofino in back with a couple german girls we did - long story. Great car, slow as hell though. Needs a turbo. He got it going pretty good through the flat sections and down the logging roads, but it strained quite badly up most serious hills. It's still sitting at his dads place, I keep bugging him to put it back on the road.

What exactly happened with yours? A loss of power, what the engine cut out? I'm sure you can fix it, just work on it yourself. Honestly, you should do a project and throw a nice 24V turbo diesel in it, throw some glossy paint at it, get some AMG rims, get the stance rite... after all if you're going to suffer financially, might as well go out in style





(Broken or not, your car is totally baller.)

[ratfrink]

A gradual loss of power leading to a 50mph top speed. I would've stuck it out, but it was 150 miles home along the (incredibly busy and somewhat hilly) M6 motorway.

It's almost certainly crap in one of the three fuel filters. Two of them are in the engine bay - easy to change. There's also a strainer in the tank - easy to clean out, but difficult to get to until I move house and get a driveway (I'm moving on Sunday so not a long wait... and it's only two miles down the road so it'll make it even with a clogged up strainer). The seller mentioned that he ran out of fuel - this always sucks up all the crap in the tank, and it's probably somewhat airlocked too... easy enough to bleed the air out. That, or the throttle (technically not a throttle) linkage has slipped/needs adjusting.

I'll do these things, give it a good service, it'll be all right.

Also the bottoms of the doors are rusty (a couple of holes in places too), as is the drivers' side wing. The valence looks crap but there are no holes in it. Rust doesn't scare me - I'll chop the bad bits out, put some red oxide paint on it, then my co-worker is a professional welder who'll weld in the patch panels for me for pennies. The chassis and remaining bodywork is totally solid.

I've bargained the seller to include a set of 'mexican hat' alloys with it, but I think I prefer it on steels with the colour-coded hubcaps. They're worth about £150 which'll cover the cost of welding and further rustproofing.



I don't mind that it's slow because I'm not a fast driver anyway. It's very relaxing to drive, and incredibly comfortable. The last few days I've had a Vauxhall Corsa 1.6 GXi courtesy car, which is actually pretty damn quick (150ish horsepower), but even after the short 45-minute drive to work, my legs and back ache. I'll also install a cheap stereo soon, hopefully, as it has nothing at all in it at the moment.

[ratfrink]

Seen this one Townie?



Blue-grey and pretty low. Clear indicators at the front - I think the rear ones are smoked too - looks fantastic IMO. I would keep the original steels and hubcaps myself.

I could replicate that very cheaply with a tin of cellulose and my Aldi compressor/gun... I'm going to do an mdes in october though, so I shan't have the time... and after that, moving to NZ.