Supreme Court Upholds Obama care

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by a224

I may be missing something here, but if someone chooses to not be on the government healthcare, wouldn't they be costing society less since they pay for their own private care?

There's no such thing as government healthcare other than the military's program, Medicare and Medicaid. This bill doesn't create any sort of government healthcare program.

And people who don't have insurance almost always don't have it because they either can't afford or insurance companies won't give it to them. In either case, this means they can't afford actual healthcare either. Or, people who can get it decide not to because they're "healthy", and so when they inevitably get sick and can't pay, the costs go up for everyone else.

Conservatives came up with the idea of an individual mandate because it promotes personal responsibility. It's really a very conservative way of handling healthcare.

[reject]

The NHS is one of the few things I like about the UK. It might be fucked on so many levels, but knowing I'm not going to be charged thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, to be kept alive is a weight off my mind.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by reject

The NHS is one of the few things I like about the UK. It might be fucked on so many levels, but knowing I'm not going to be charged thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, to be kept alive is a weight off my mind.

Agreed. And while you pay more in taxes for it, you don't pay for insurance. And you pay less in taxes for the care then you would if you paid for it in the form of private insurance, as study after study shows.

It reduces costs while maintaining or improving quality of care.

[reject]

Aye, it really baffles me that America, the richest nation in the world, doesn't have a system like that. It baffles me even more that for the most part they're against it.

If America wasn't so comically retarded they'd be scary.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by reject

Aye, it really baffles me that America, the richest nation in the world, doesn't have a system like that. It baffles me even more that for the most part they're against it.

If America wasn't so comically retarded they'd be scary.

You have that last bit wrong. We're scary because we're so comically retarded. I mean, it sounds like it would be funny, right? But it turns out that comically retarded + the world's largest military = scary as fuck.

All you need to know to understand America is contained in a quick read of the concept of American Exceptionalism. Once you realize that every action we take is justifiable under the "we're better and more free than everyone" philosophy combined with the "we're God's favorite nation, so all our actions are divine", then you see why we commit atrocities and then have the audacity to brag about it.

[reject]

They will be the death of the world. When you combine them and Israel its a nuclear hellfire waiting to happen.

[Tachosomoza]

Nah, there won't be any nuclear war. Reagan wasn't even crazy enough to do that.

[jheit8]

Originally Posted by muffins

She will be removed via swat team and face the death panel, if her health care costs exceed what the government considers reasonable she well be allowed to die.

Compared to now, where insurance companies can do the same thing without any oversight?

Obamacare didn't go far enough. Where's the nationalization of healthcare? This just gives the insurance companies more of a reason to buy congressmen and support the tea party. If people are compelled to buy insurance, but they're not poor enough to get medicare/medicaid, who's going to get the money?

If they really wanted to reduce costs and put people to work they'd use some of the war budget to put people to work making medical supplies for a state-backed corporation.

[Tachosomoza]

Lol at Mitt Romney..."I'm going to start to repeal Obamacare on my first day in office...I don't know what I'm gonna replace it with, but Obamacare bad!!!!!1"

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

Lol at Mitt Romney..."I'm going to start to repeal Obamacare on my first day in office...I don't know what I'm gonna replace it with, but Obamacare bad!!!!!1"

This isn't the first time he's shown his lack of knowledge on how the government actually works.

[Tachosomoza]

He's going to "increase the military" and "cut taxes". That's literally all he knows.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

He's going to "increase the military" and "cut taxes". That's literally all he knows.

All he knows is "Me want White House." He doesn't care about anything past that. If Democrats take back the House in November, he'll probably switch parties.

[Village Idiot]

Does anyone else not give a fuck? The only thing I care about is how many lulz will I be getting?
Based off of this thread I think I am getting some good lulz, but not enough lulz to be content.

[Yggdrasil]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

You have that last bit wrong. We're scary because we're so comically retarded. I mean, it sounds like it would be funny, right? But it turns out that comically retarded + the world's largest military = scary as fuck.

All you need to know to understand America is contained in a quick read of the concept of American Exceptionalism. Once you realize that every action we take is justifiable under the "we're better and more free than everyone" philosophy combined with the "we're God's favorite nation, so all our actions are divine", then you see why we commit atrocities and then have the audacity to brag about it.

America - Fuck Yeah! - YouTube

America - Fuck Yeah! - YouTube
Video: click to display

Heh, wonder how many people fail to realize that's a satire

[jheit8]

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

America - Fuck Yeah! - YouTube

Heh, wonder how many people fail to realize that's a satire

You'd be amazed. Shit, there's tons of people who actually think WWE is real

[IIIII]

Have you seen Fox Snooze?

[Mutant Funk Drink]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

No, it's a nice use of the English fucking language, of which you are clearly not familiar.

OOOOOHHHH HOO HOO HOOO HOOOOO.

The legal system defines compulsion as use of legal force. In other words, making it a crime to not have insurance. This is not a crime or compulsion. It's not a requirement. You simply pay a small fee, because you're costing society by not having insurance.

It isn't about "forcing you to take care of other people", it's about keeping people from fucking over others. You don't have the right to run up healthcare costs for other people. I don't recall that anywhere in the Constitution. Do you?

Where did I say compulsory? And clearly you know very little about Obama's health care bill because it's not about paying a small fee or tax. The "fee" you are paying is going towards a private health insurance company. If you don't, then you'll be fined. How is that not forcing people into a system? Don't I have the right to not sign a private contract?

Who the fuck says that I am running up health care costs? Fuck you. You are also using a negative to prove a positive. I don't have the right to "run up" health care costs; that does not mean that people have the right to take my money for their own problems.

Originally Posted by crazzyass

There's no such thing as government healthcare other than the military's program, Medicare and Medicaid. This bill doesn't create any sort of government healthcare program.

For all intents and purposes, it's government health care. It regulates health care and it funds it using billions of dollars from Medicare and taxes.

There's no such thing as government health care, but you mentioned Medicaid? Do you even know what Medicaid is? Medicaid was created for people and families who couldn't afford health care. If Medicaid can't help all the people who claim they can't afford health care, then clearly the federal government fails yet again.

And people who don't have insurance almost always don't have it because they either can't afford or insurance companies won't give it to them. In either case, this means they can't afford actual healthcare either. Or, people who can get it decide not to because they're "healthy", and so when they inevitably get sick and can't pay, the costs go up for everyone else.

And again, we already have a system that was supposed to help people who couldn't afford health care, and it didn't work. So what do we do now? Well, let's give the government more of our money and maybe they'll do it right this time.

Conservatives came up with the idea of an individual mandate because it promotes personal responsibility. It's really a very conservative way of handling healthcare.

That's fine. I don't really care if something is conservative or not.

[The Pat-Man]

i have no problems and generally give ~two fucks about this.

[Tachosomoza]

So, healthcare shouldn't be regulated? Nothing can go wrong there...deny coverage to children with preexisting conditions all you want.

And you're the one that doesn't understand it. If you don't have health insurance, you pay a penalty to the IRS. Nobody's forcing you to do anything, you'rd not going to jail for not having insurance, so quit bitching.

[Mutant Funk Drink]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

So, healthcare shouldn't be regulated? Nothing can go wrong there...

And you're the one that doesn't understand it. If you don't have health insurance, you pay a 1% fee to the IRS. Nobody's forcing you to do anything.

No, Tacho. No more of this "either or" bullshit. Nobody said that health care shouldn't be regulated, you fucking dolt. Now I know that you're nothing more than a dirty whipeass troll, but actually I'm glad you posted because that's a typical religious liberal response that needs to be addressed.

Just because I think there can be too many regulations doesn't mean that I don't think there should be any regulation. There, I said it.

Oh, then if nobody is forcing me, then I can just ignore the IRS and never pay them 1% of my income?

[Tachosomoza]

I've never met any adult who doesn't want health insurance...you're nuts, kid. I think you just like doing shit just because. Nobody's forcing you to get insurance. You're not going to be thrown in prison for the simple act of not having health insurance. But, you can't expect to run around uninsured without facing consequences, just like your automobile. You get your dumb ass hurt and don't have insurance, that's a problem.

[reject]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

I've never met any adult who doesn't want health insurance...you're nuts, kid. I think you just like doing shit just because. Nobody's forcing you to get insurance. You're not going to be thrown in prison for the simple act of not having health insurance. But, you can't expect to run around uninsured without facing consequences, just like your automobile. You get your dumb ass hurt and don't have insurance, that's a problem.

It's a sad day when somebody makes me agree with Tacho.

[Tachosomoza]

Maybe Mutant Fuck Drink is invincible.

[The Pat-Man]

Originally Posted by reject

It's a sad day when somebody makes me agree with Tacho.

agreed

[Mutant Funk Drink]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

I've never met any adult who doesn't want health insurance...you're nuts, kid.

Did I say I didn't want health insurance? Of course I want insurance! If I couldn't afford it, would I expect everyone else to pay for it for me? No. Just like with anything else, I pick what I can afford and what I can't. At this age, I am a relatively healthy individual, and I probably will be for the next 20 years of my life. If something serious happens to me and I can't afford health care, I might be able to rely on my family if they want to help me and if they can afford to. If they can't, then I'm not going to burden them. Life is full of risks and I understand that there's the possibility of dealing with the consequences of life's risks. I don't think you should have to pay for my stint of bad luck.

I think you just like doing shit just because. Nobody's forcing you to get insurance. You're not going to be thrown in prison for the simple act of not having health insurance. But, you can't expect to run around uninsured without facing consequences, just like your automobile. You get your dumb ass hurt and don't have insurance, that's a problem.

While I also disagree with forcing people into auto insurance, there's a better reason behind it; when you are buying car insurance, you are doing so because you are entering into a system. We have required car insurance because a car is a dangerous but practical machine, and when you are driving a car, you are using a large system of roads and highways that are owned by the tax payer. So as long as people use those roads with their cars, they should have insurance to cover damages that they may cause to others. Again, I don't entirely agree with the ethics of forcing people into buying insurance, but as far as car insurance goes, I understand the reasoning behind such legislation.

On the other hand, the said health care law means that everyone has to pay simply because they exist. Already, I disagree with peoples' moral reasons towards supporting this health care law, but I'm simply breathing and I am supposedly costing you and everyone else money? Talk about a sweeping generalization. Where are the numbers to back that up? I bet you that the vast majority of people aren't costing the health care industry billions of dollars.

[Tachosomoza]

Well, you're a special individual, Mutant.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Mutant Funk Drink

OOOOOHHHH HOO HOO HOOO HOOOOO.



Where did I say compulsory? And clearly you know very little about Obama's health care bill because it's not about paying a small fee or tax. The "fee" you are paying is going towards a private health insurance company. If you don't, then you'll be fined. How is that not forcing people into a system? Don't I have the right to not sign a private contract?

Yes, you have the right to not be forced into signing a private contract. But you don't have the right to not be taxed for doing so.

Who the fuck says that I am running up health care costs? Fuck you. You are also using a negative to prove a positive. I don't have the right to "run up" health care costs; that does not mean that people have the right to take my money for their own problems.

If you wait until you are sick to get health insurance or you get treatment that you can't afford, then you're running up health care costs.

For all intents and purposes, it's government health care. It regulates health care and it funds it using billions of dollars from Medicare and taxes.

Not even a little bit. It's not even healthcare reform, it's health insurance reform. It regulates how insurance companies can use and abuse people, it has virtually nothing to do with hospitals or doctors. Actual healthcare isn't being affected; just the insurance industry.

There's no such thing as government health care, but you mentioned Medicaid? Do you even know what Medicaid is? Medicaid was created for people and families who couldn't afford health care. If Medicaid can't help all the people who claim they can't afford health care, then clearly the federal government fails yet again.

Can you not fucking read? Of course you can't...I said no government healthcare except Medicaid and the others.

Um, Medicaid has an income level cut-off. Do you know what that means? It means above a certain level, it doesn't pay. Are you following so far? You've shown you don't have the best grasp on English, I don't want to get too far ahead.

Since there is a cut-off on Medicaid coverage, but healthcare costs keep rising, more and more people have been caught in the gap of not being able to afford it that don't qualify for Medicaid. Does that make sense or should I rewrite it for a lower grade level?

You're saying the government fails because of that, but that's just what conservatives do. They scream that government doesn't work, and then get into office and prove it. They refuse to expand Medicaid and then say that it not working is proof that the government fails. Of course it fails when idiots like you sabotage it every chance you get.

And again, we already have a system that was supposed to help people who couldn't afford health care, and it didn't work. So what do we do now? Well, let's give the government more of our money and maybe they'll do it right this time.

Your argument is completely facile. The law fixes issues that arose since the implementation of Medicaid. Of course things change and you need new solutions to new problems.

That's fine. I don't really care if something is conservative or not.

You sure? You sound like you're repeating Mitt's post-sex sleepy talk.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Mutant Funk Drink

Did I say I didn't want health insurance? Of course I want insurance! If I couldn't afford it, would I expect everyone else to pay for it for me? No. Just like with anything else, I pick what I can afford and what I can't. At this age, I am a relatively healthy individual, and I probably will be for the next 20 years of my life. If something serious happens to me and I can't afford health care, I might be able to rely on my family if they want to help me and if they can afford to. If they can't, then I'm not going to burden them. Life is full of risks and I understand that there's the possibility of dealing with the consequences of life's risks. I don't think you should have to pay for my stint of bad luck.



While I also disagree with forcing people into auto insurance, there's a better reason behind it; when you are buying car insurance, you are doing so because you are entering into a system. We have required car insurance because a car is a dangerous but practical machine, and when you are driving a car, you are using a large system of roads and highways that are owned by the tax payer. So as long as people use those roads with their cars, they should have insurance to cover damages that they may cause to others. Again, I don't entirely agree with the ethics of forcing people into buying insurance, but as far as car insurance goes, I understand the reasoning behind such legislation.

On the other hand, the said health care law means that everyone has to pay simply because they exist. Already, I disagree with peoples' moral reasons towards supporting this health care law, but I'm simply breathing and I am supposedly costing you and everyone else money? Talk about a sweeping generalization. Where are the numbers to back that up? I bet you that the vast majority of people aren't costing the health care industry billions of dollars.

The reasons for mandates on health insurance are the exact same for auto insurance: by not having insurance, you have a negative effect on everyone else. You hit someone without insurance, then they're fucked over. It's like you stole the money it'd take for them to repair their car, because you're liable.

Likewise, leaving a $200,000 bill for others to pick up when you get sick is also unfair to them. I'm sure you'll always be healthy. That's what everyone says. That's what this bill is about: idiots like you thinking you're immortal.

Oh, you won't ask for help if you get sick? You'll just lay down in the street and die instead of going to the hospital. How noble. I'm sure you'll do just that.

[IIIII]

Here's Jean Schmidt waiting for the decision and freaking out when she gets a call telling her that SCOTUS ruled the mandate un-constitutional.

You gotta wonder how bad she freaked when she was told - No wait, that's not true.

Somebody at Fox Snooze probably got an ass chewing

LOL

Rep "Mean Jean" Schmidt Wigs Out thinking Supreme Court Struck Down Health Care Reform - YouTube

Rep "Mean Jean" Schmidt Wigs Out thinking Supreme Court Struck Down Health Care Reform - YouTube
Video: click to display

[IIIII]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

The reasons for mandates on health insurance are the exact same for auto insurance: by not having insurance, you have a negative effect on everyone else. You hit someone without insurance, then they're fucked over. It's like you stole the money it'd take for them to repair their car, because you're liable.

Likewise, leaving a $200,000 bill for others to pick up when you get sick is also unfair to them. I'm sure you'll always be healthy. That's what everyone says. That's what this bill is about: idiots like you thinking you're immortal.

Oh, you won't ask for help if you get sick? You'll just lay down in the street and die instead of going to the hospital. How noble. I'm sure you'll do just that.

You do realise that people who do not have insurance do not receive a bill when they leave the hospital. And when they ask how much they owe, it is a general number, that is more like $50,000 t0 $65,000, instead of a solid $64,000.

Also those without insurance can expect to get a level of health care a bit below those who do have insurance. But if the cost is passed down to others then why would that be so?

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Mutant Funk Drink

For the record, I don't expect shit from anyone. I only expect the rights given to me by the constitution(which even liberals these days like to describe as more of a historical document than the law of the land), and I expect to be left alone. I don't want peoples' money, food, health care, etc. If someone were to provide me with those things, it should be out of the goodness of their heart.

The problem is that society is never going to be as simple as that. Assuming that Obamacare didn't exist; what would you do about Hospitals having to give emergency care to individuals? Because that's what started this whole issue, and that's why "Obamacare" was actually created by Republicans years ago.

Their argument was one in favor of personal responsibility (just like you allude to in your posts): People were going to Hospitals and getting emergency care without paying, and they thought that if you mandated people to pay for their healthcares (using private insurance to keep the government to a minimum), then everyone would have to pay for themselves.

If you don't like that solution what do you suggest? Hospitals don't need to give emergency care until you provide valid proof of insurance (meaning if you have an emergency without a piece of paper on you, you die) or do people get free emergency care in Hospitals?

Reality is far more nuanced and this "personal responsibility" rhetoric...

Ever wonder why tuition and textbooks are usually so high? That's a direct result of the government swooping in and providing loans and grants to students, and by providing schools with subsidies.

No, it isn't. That myth has been debunked numerous times on Zoklet already. The cost of tuition does not raise on par with government assistance, and in fact it raises higher on those Universities that have less assistance.

http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showpost.p...&postcount=221

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Mutant Funk Drink

Already, I disagree with peoples' moral reasons towards supporting this health care law, but I'm simply breathing and I am supposedly costing you and everyone else money? Talk about a sweeping generalization. Where are the numbers to back that up? I bet you that the vast majority of people aren't costing the health care industry billions of dollars.

Well it's a fact of how insurance works. It isn't just an issue of you costing people more if you get in an accident or whatever (which is another point); it's an issue of how healthcare premiums are decided based on pooling/grouping/bundling many people together.

If you go to an insurance company and ask how much it would cost to insure just one person, and then ask them how much it would cost to insure 300 million people, the costs per-person will significantly lower for the bundle/pool.Insurance companies get to amortize risk, guarantee a huge consumer base, and save on a bunch of costs. The simple act of not wanting to be part of that pool, increases the per-person cost because the pool is smaller.

So you might disagree on whether the government should require that you buy the insurance in the first place; but in principle the idea that you're increasing costs is sound.

[Malice]

Originally Posted by zuperxtreme

I don't understand what's bad about it, wouldn't more people get healthcare? And those who can't pay could have access much cheaper?

Cost, likely no benefit on the net. Also the issue of coercion. You have to understand economics to understand healthcare, and economics is a topic that the vast majority of people have almost no grasp of and never make an effort to grasp.

Originally Posted by water bottle

Haha, fuck you teabaggers.

It's mandatory to buy auto insurance, and Americans accept that, and yet half of you think it infringes on your freedom to be "forced" to pay into a collective insurance system on your fucking bodies. Facepalm.

Property rights. If roads were provide, owners could require insurance, and there could be roads without it. Whatever people demand and others are willing to provide. Unfortunately, government has a near monopoly on roads.

It's been thought out:

Originally Posted by water bottle

Then how far do you go with that logic? Should you pay no taxes at all and see how you fare with no roads or firemen or teachers or sanitary water? Libertarianism is a nice ideal, but people are waaaay too pussified to run society without big brother. It's a necessary evil.

Health care is a good thing. In my view it's more essential than, say, roads, and therefore worth the tax.

Yes, what on earth did we do before government took care of everything.

Applying Economics to American History | Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - YouTube

Applying Economics to American History | Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - YouTube
Video: click to display

Originally Posted by crazzyass

In fact, healthcare costs are considered to be so high because of the monopolistic nature of the supplyside of care. The US ranks shittily next to nearly every universal healthcare system. While Obamacare isn't perfect, perhaps it'll move us up at least a few ranks in the coming years, despite the efforts of Republicans and conservatives to keep it was low as possible for whatever unfathomable reason they have.

Do you know how those ranks are determined? I could make a ranking called "The Tea-Party Healthcare Freedom and Awesomeness Index" and base rankings on idiotic things. I do know how it's ranked:

http://www.creators.com/opinion/john...are-study.html

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/feat...h-care-system/

+ the difference in racial demographics.

No, those systems are not the cause of higher life expectancy, this is pure nonsense. It is primarily a matter of cost.

Now, to anyone that brings up Michael Moore or has seen "Sicko": http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Yes, different film, but I've seen multiple films by him, they're all the same, he has not changed his ways. I chose this because it does a fantastic job of sowing what an outright liar and poor source of information he is.

I don't deny that there may be some abuse, but it was the government that created HMO's, prevented people from suing for more than the amount owed if they're unjustly denied care, and limiting choice. Governments make abuses too. Do you know what's going on with Greece's health system? What happens if the government has trouble paying bills? What about perverse incentives this could create?

If you really want to get a good overview of health care, read this, it's short and easy to get through:



Oh, they wrote about the Affordable Care Act as well: http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/BadMedicineWP.pdf

I'm going to read this.

I don't deny that single-payer could be much less expensive than our current system, with similar outcomes, but be respectful, the issue as not as clear-cut as people assume and we do not have "free-market" health-care, thinking so is absurd. There are other choices than the US system and single-payer, there is variation in how different countries with single-payer run their systems, and there are other issues which most people never consider because they refuse to do any in-depth reading on the issues.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by IIIII

You do realise that people who do not have insurance do not receive a bill when they leave the hospital. And when they ask how much they owe, it is a general number, that is more like $50,000 t0 $65,000, instead of a solid $64,000.

When did I say any of this?

Also those without insurance can expect to get a level of health care a bit below those who do have insurance. But if the cost is passed down to others then why would that be so?

You really need to rephrase that last bit...

[13579]

Originally Posted by Tachosomoza

If you don't have health insurance, you pay a penalty to the IRS.


Nobody's forcing you to do anything, you'rd not going to jail for not having insurance, so quit bitching.

lolwut?

So in other words, you are forced to buy health insurance or give one percent of your income to the IRS.

"Buy this shit, otherwise we're going to take your money anyway"

Sounds pretty forced to me. Either way somebody is getting your money, no matter how much you might need it to, say, buy food or pay rent.

Not saying I really support either side, but at least call it what it is.

[13579]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Likewise, leaving a $200,000 bill for others to pick up when you get sick is also unfair to them. I'm sure you'll always be healthy. That's what everyone says. That's what this bill is about: idiots like you thinking you're immortal.

The situation isn't like that for everyone. My family has saved a shitton of money by not having health insurance. The only time I've been to the hospital or even to a doctor in the last 15 years of my life was when I broke my arm.

Sure, the bill was rather large, but it was still much cheaper than paying for insurance all those years it wasn't used.

Though I can understand your logic, I must still disagree with making people pay for simply existing.

Though, perhaps I'm not understanding this correctly with all the contradictions I keep reading on the subject.

If you don't pay for health insurance, but do pay the 1% tax to the IRS, does that give you any kind of health insurance/assistance? Or are you paying one percent of your income for the right to still have no health insurance/assistance?

[Iehovah]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Likewise, leaving a $200,000 bill for others to pick up when you get sick is also unfair to them. I'm sure you'll always be healthy. That's what everyone says. That's what this bill is about: idiots like you thinking you're immortal.

You do realize that this bill doesn't do diddly to change something like that $200K bill, right? Making someone get health insurance coverage doesn't mean all expenses will be covered, and more importantly, even those covered expenses have limitations depending on the insurance plan that you bought. Unless the insurance company in question is stupid, they're not going to cover even a substantial portion of a $200K bill on some lousy basic health plan that someone was compelled to buy in order to keep on the right side of the law.

That means the remaining cost is still going to get picked up by someone, and if that someone isn't a> the individual or b> the insurance company, that still leaves the hospitals and the taxpayers.

In other words, right back where you started.

Because the PPACA isn't what it was intended to be by the designers, it's now little more than a permanent source of income for insurance companies who rub their hands with glee as customers trundle in to buy whatever cheapass "Government Plans" they put together and then simply laugh in their faces when those same customers find out later on that those plans don't really cover shit.

[Mutant Funk Drink]

I think it's funny how you guys think Romney doesn't know what he's talking about. I bet he knows quite a bit about Obamacare, but just like Obama, he says stupid shit on the campaign trail in order to sell himself. The campaign is just an advertisement, no logic allowed. Even if I thought someone is was a good candidate(I don't like Romney or Obama), I wouldn't take anything they say seriously as soon as they begin running for president.

[Tachosomoza]

You'd know, you sound just like him.

[IIIII]

Mean while back at tea party headquarters, a letter writing campaign is started: