What really causes a wave function to collapse?

[whocares]

Wave Function Collapse - YouTube

Wave Function Collapse - YouTube
Video: click to display

What? How?

[DiStOrTiOn]

jews in the ether

[southernsun]

Many believe that this is proof of the simulation theory, what isn't be observed - happens, and when it is observed, it changes to what it wants the observer to see.

Strange.

[whocares]

Where's Ate/Om Nom when you need him?

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by whocares

Where's Ate/Om Nom when you need him?

you should have asked "what metaphysical property of the spirit dimension causes the wave function to collapse?"


then those pseudoniggers will come, and they will say "soul transposition of the universal consciousness becomes concentrated to a single point entity in 3D space thereby causing the soul wave function to collapse into an isolated point of energy and create the illusion of individual particles. When the concentrated soul transposes back to the universal conscious whole, the individual particles rejoin the wave function and continue as an uninterrupted stream of soul wave fluidity"

[Gun Lover]

Mind rape

[Yggdrasil]

I think this video is an excerpt from this documentary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_th...Do_We_Know!%3F

... which was heavily fucking slammed for misrepresentation of facts and science, and casual insertions of pseudoscientific bullshit.

[whocares]

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

I think this video is an excerpt from this documentary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_th...Do_We_Know!%3F

... which was heavily fucking slammed for misrepresentation of facts and science, and casual insertions of pseudoscientific bullshit.

Please tell me which part is a misrepresentation of facts and pseudoscientific bullshit in the video.

[Miley Highrus]

Originally Posted by whocares

Please tell me which part is a misrepresentation of facts and pseudoscientific bullshit in the video.

This is about to turn into a case of you idiots arguing over things way over your head

[Yggdrasil]

Originally Posted by whocares

Please tell me what's misrepresentation of facts and bullshit in the video.

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic because you think the video is cunningly bullshitting the audience (It is), or because you think I'm being a tryhard refuting the insight of this video.

See this is what I hate about online interaction, there's no facial or body cues or any of that and you're forced to communicate on the level of an asspie fucktard.

The science in the clip that you posted is correct, the phenomenon is a well known one etc, but used in the context of that film, which is in fact pseduscientific bullshit, complete with tales of Atlantean warriors and shit on the same level of stupidity as those people who claim to live off of sunlight, the science does in fact get misrepresented.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

I think this video is an excerpt from this documentary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_th...Do_We_Know!%3F

... which was heavily fucking slammed for misrepresentation of facts and science, and casual insertions of pseudoscientific bullshit.

That documentary is bullshit and I don't know if this clip was in it or not, but the clip posted is scientifically accurate. The double-slit experiment goes pretty much exactly as they described.

The only part that was sketchy was the observer part. Scientists do a shitty job of explaining that the act of observation at the quantum level requires bombarding the site with photons or other energy to get readings off of it. Just like the Uncertainty Principle seems to imply that particles "know they're being watched" because observation changes particle behavior. That's bullshit. To know where a particle is, you have to hit it with a bunch of photons from all directions. This alters the velocity of the particle. Likewise, to know velocity you have to alter position.

So no, these particles aren't changing because we watch them, they're changing because to watch them, we have to change them.

[whocares]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

That documentary is bullshit and I don't know if this clip was in it or not, but the clip posted is scientifically accurate. The double-slit experiment goes pretty much exactly as they described.

The only part that was sketchy was the observer part. Scientists do a shitty job of explaining that the act of observation at the quantum level requires bombarding the site with photons or other energy to get readings off of it. Just like the Uncertainty Principle seems to imply that particles "know they're being watched" because observation changes particle behavior. That's bullshit. To know where a particle is, you have to hit it with a bunch of photons from all directions. This alters the velocity of the particle. Likewise, to know velocity you have to alter position.

So no, these particles aren't changing because we watch them, they're changing because to watch them, we have to change them.

Not really. Scientists still don't understand the properties of the wave function, and still don't know the process of the collapse. If the wave function collapses because "we have to change them", then why isn't this mystery solved? That's pretty much bullshit, and doesn't explain how a superposition doesn't stay a superposition.

If what you say is true, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation because it would have been solved already.

[psychomanthis]

When a system in quantum superposition interacts with it's environment in an thermodynamically irreversible way, quantum decoherence occurs which makes it so that the elements in quantum superposition cannot interfere with eachother and thus no interference pattern is observed. Which simply appears as a wave function collapse.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by whocares

Not really. Scientists still don't understand the properties of the wave function, and still don't know the process of the collapse. If the wave function collapses because "we have to change them", then why isn't this mystery solved? That's pretty much bullshit, and doesn't explain how a superposition doesn't stay a superposition.

If what you say is true, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation because it would have been solved already.

Because, like I already said, we have no fucking clue why matter acts like a wave in the double-slit experiment. That's the whole mystery. We have no clue what happens at that level that results in that. Jackshit is solved.

That has nothing to do with the fact that our attempts at figuring out what happens down there gets fucked up by the act of us trying to observe and measure things. But the observation part isn't some magical universal consciousness. If you hit something and it moves, it doesn't have the same position. No fucking shit. It's that simple. The observation part isn't the mysterious aspect of this. It's the fact that we can't observe what's happening and the outcome is (seemingly) nonsensical.

[whocares]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Because, like I already said, we have no fucking clue why matter acts like a wave in the double-slit experiment. That's the whole mystery. We have no clue what happens at that level that results in that. Jackshit is solved.

That has nothing to do with the fact that our attempts at figuring out what happens down there gets fucked up by the act of us trying to observe and measure things. But the observation part isn't some magical universal consciousness. If you hit something and it moves, it doesn't have the same position. No fucking shit. It's that simple. The observation part isn't the mysterious aspect of this. It's the fact that we can't observe what's happening and the outcome is (seemingly) nonsensical.

You still haven't explained anything, or why wave functions is both a superposition and a single state for that matter. Once it's collapsed, it's collapsed, so why can't it return back to a state of superposition? How does simply observing it change its state forever? Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean there isn't an answer, or is nonsensical. You just don't know the right answer.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by whocares

You still haven't explained anything, or why wave functions is both a superposition and a single state for that matter. Once it's collapsed, it's collapsed, so why can't it return back to a state of superposition? How does simply observing it change its state forever? Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean there isn't an answer, or is nonsensical. You just don't know the right answer.

No shit? Who the fuck said there isn't an answer?

[Malcolm Equis]

guys guys... calm down

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Equis

guys guys... calm down

quantum physics srs business

[psychomanthis]

Originally Posted by whocares

You still haven't explained anything, or why wave functions is both a superposition and a single state for that matter. Once it's collapsed, it's collapsed, so why can't it return back to a state of superposition? How does simply observing it change its state forever? Just because you can't explain it, doesn't mean there isn't an answer, or is nonsensical. You just don't know the right answer.

Electrons are generally in superposition as such it's elements interfere with eachother and the particle acts as a wave, however when we measure this electron there occurs a irreversible thermodynamical change wich locks the electron in a specific state and thus it acts as a particle.

[Malice]

OP, you may find this useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mysticism

[DiStOrTiOn]

Originally Posted by psychomanthis

Electrons are generally in superposition as such it's elements interfere with eachother and the particle acts as a wave, however when we measure this electron there occurs a irreversible thermodynamical change wich locks the electron in a specific state and thus it acts as a particle.

are you saying that the spirit wave is in superposition (basically soul is everywhere at same time), and in order to measure the position of a wave of soul energy, that soul must become irreversibly fixed into a thermodynamical entity? so like, manifestations of this thermodynamically fixed soul wave energy can, for example, be considered human consciousness? does this mean once human consciousness takes hold, that it cannot rejoin the universal conscious soul wave function until the thermodynamical vessel becomes endothermodynamical i.e destroying it completely?

[JeffreyH]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

That documentary is bullshit and I don't know if this clip was in it or not, but the clip posted is scientifically accurate. The double-slit experiment goes pretty much exactly as they described.

The only part that was sketchy was the observer part. Scientists do a shitty job of explaining that the act of observation at the quantum level requires bombarding the site with photons or other energy to get readings off of it. Just like the Uncertainty Principle seems to imply that particles "know they're being watched" because observation changes particle behavior. That's bullshit. To know where a particle is, you have to hit it with a bunch of photons from all directions. This alters the velocity of the particle. Likewise, to know velocity you have to alter position.

So no, these particles aren't changing because we watch them, they're changing because to watch them, we have to change them.

why cant we just put sensors in the slits that would go off when an electron passes through them

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by JeffreyH

why cant we just put sensors in the slits that would go off when an electron passes through them

Care to explain how this sensor would work?

[Miley Highrus]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Care to explain how this sensor would work?

The video gives a good visual representation but it's not even close to how it's actually conducted. It's not like the actually have a gun shooting just electrons.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by psychomanthis

When a system in quantum superposition interacts with it's environment in an thermodynamically irreversible way, quantum decoherence occurs which makes it so that the elements in quantum superposition cannot interfere with eachother and thus no interference pattern is observed. Which simply appears as a wave function collapse.

Originally Posted by psychomanthis

Electrons are generally in superposition as such it's elements interfere with eachother and the particle acts as a wave, however when we measure this electron there occurs a irreversible thermodynamical change wich locks the electron in a specific state and thus it acts as a particle.

Even if you pulled both these posts out of your ass, which I doubt, they're still the most logical arguments I've heard for this phenomenon.

Good shit, where can I learn moar?

[JeffreyH]

I wonder what Freud would have to say about this whole "firing electrons from a gun into slits and penetrating them" thing.

[psychomanthis]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Even if you pulled both these posts out of your ass, which I doubt, they're still the most logical arguments I've heard for this phenomenon.

Good shit, where can I learn moar?

The same place we learn everything my friend, wikipedia Or a library if you must

And no i didn't pull that out of my ass. My second post is also a simplification of my first. By the way i didn't know you liked physics

Originally Posted by DiStOrTiOn

are you saying that the spirit wave is in superposition (basically soul is everywhere at same time), and in order to measure the position of a wave of soul energy, that soul must become irreversibly fixed into a thermodynamical entity? so like, manifestations of this thermodynamically fixed soul wave energy can, for example, be considered human consciousness? does this mean once human consciousness takes hold, that it cannot rejoin the universal conscious soul wave function until the thermodynamical vessel becomes endothermodynamical i.e destroying it completely?

No, no not quite, close but not quite. Want me to walk you through it buddy?

[Xlite]

Parallel universes.

Little particles that we're all made of can be in multiple places at once.
The particles in the double slit experiment doesn't split in two, they split the world in two.

[JeffreyH]

The question is, why is the quantum stuff even needed? I mean, laws of physics are inherently arbitrary. Same as lower level stuff works for no good reason, why couldn't the higher level stuff just work for no good reason? What is the point of it all?

I mean, the Universe is vast but completely pointless, and we exist for no other reason other than to reproduce, because those that de facto lived for any other reason all died, while eventually this planet and all of us will cease to be.

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by Unwires

The video gives a good visual representation but it's not even close to how it's actually conducted. It's not like the actually have a gun shooting just electrons.

Well, yes...but JeffreyH was referring to some hypothetical sensor that wouldn't interfere with the observation process and I was asking him how he'd design such a thing.

Originally Posted by JeffreyH

The question is, why is the quantum stuff even needed? I mean, laws of physics are inherently arbitrary. Same as lower level stuff works for no good reason, why couldn't the higher level stuff just work for no good reason? What is the point of it all?

I mean, the Universe is vast but completely pointless, and we exist for no other reason other than to reproduce, because those that de facto lived for any other reason all died, while eventually this planet and all of us will cease to be.

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

It's not needed as much as it's observed. Yes, the laws of physics are arbitrary in the sense that the constants could be anything, but there are relations between everything. We model these relations with equations and theories and then apply them to different things to see if it holds up. General relativity explains and models a lot, but when you get to the quantum level the model stops predicting anything with any level of accuracy. So we need a new model. That's what is being worked on.

[psychomanthis]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

we need a new model. That's what is being worked on.

Otherwise known as a Grand Unification Theory M-Theory or supersymmetry what's it gonna' be, perhaps a combination of both Things are looking good for supersymmetry now that the Higgs Boson has been found.

All forces must be explained, on the macro and quantum level. So far most are already unified namely; The electromagnetic force, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. Gravity is a bitch though

[crazzyass]

Originally Posted by psychomanthis

Otherwise known as a Grand Unification Theory M-Theory or supersymmetry what's it gonna' be, perhaps a combination of both Things are looking good for supersymmetry now that the Higgs Boson has been found.

All forces must be explained, on the macro and quantum level. So far most are already unified namely; The electromagnetic force, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. Gravity is a bitch though

Gravity: also known as "a real motherfucker" by esteemed physicists around the world.

[psychomanthis]

Originally Posted by crazzyass

Gravity: also known as "a real motherfucker" by esteemed physicists around the world.

Quite right

[Illegal Immigrant]

holy fuck i wish i wasn't so high when i watched that

[Sir Cornwell]

They reach their shore.

[psychomanthis]

Originally Posted by Sir Cornwell

They reach their shore.

Lol

Lol
Video: click to display

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by psychomanthis

The same place we learn everything my friend, wikipedia Or a library if you must

And no i didn't pull that out of my ass. My second post is also a simplification of my first. By the way i didn't know you liked physics

Man, I fucking adore theoretical physics.

I just happen to suck at math and regular physics and thus stayed with my first love, chemistry.

The experience/rewards are more relevant to my interests I daresay.
*looks towards F&B*

[psychomanthis]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Man, I fucking adore theoretical physics.

Join the club

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I just happen to suck at math and regular physics and thus stayed with my first love, chemistry.

I see, however doesn't chemistry involve a lot of math aswell? With calculating molarity and whatnot.

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

The experience/rewards are more relevant to my interests I daresay.
*looks towards F&B*

Do you mean the experience/reward of physics or chemistry?

[Yggdrasil]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I just happen to suck at math and regular physics and thus stayed with my first love, chemistry.

The experience/rewards are more relevant to my interests I daresay.
*looks towards F&B*

Biology up in this bitch!

...

[JC Denton]

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