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Old 07-28-2012, 08:01 AM
scottlee scottlee is offline
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Default Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Ive found a tek for extracting morphine from poppy pods. Ive praphrased the steps and writen some question in brackets under them. Mostly to do with which chemicals to use to adjust ph levels as they aren't mentioned during the tek. NaOH/KOH and HCL are mentioned before the start of the tek
If anyone could anwser these and explain whatshappening at each step I would apresiate it. Thanks

Iv'e read somewhere that to aid the extraction once you have ground up the poppy pods you should add a little water to them just so there damp and put them in the freezer. as the water freezes and expands it breaks the cell walls in the poppy pods allowing more alcolids to be extracted. (Does this help? Are the alcolids inside the plant cells?)

1. Add powdered poppy pods to water bring ph down to 2.5-3 and let stand for several hours
(What ratio of poppy pods to water should be used? What should be used to lower th ph lever? Would this work better if the water was heated and stired?)

2. Filter

3. Bring the ph level up to 8-9
(What should be used to bring the ph level up?)

4. Heat to 70c and concentrate the liquid.
(From tek “if 100 grams of straw was used, and (for the sake of simplicity) the morphine content was 1%, there will be 1 gram of morphine in the solution. the solubility of morphine HCl is about 20 mg/mL (it is actually a little bit more) at room temp (higher at higher temps)
that means, you will want no less than 50 mL of solution. so, basicallly, concentrate the HELL out of it.” (Is the morphine at this point the hlc or alkaloid form, do they have the same solubility? Is eveporating this solution safe? Would part freezing the solution and removing the ice (ice-o-late) be equivlant to doing this?)

5. Lower ph to 2-3 and leave over night in the fridge
( What should be used to lower the ph?)

6. Filter out the sludge.

7. Bring the ph level up to 12.
( What should be usedto raise the ph? Tek says not to use SODIUM BICARB OR CARBONATE)

8. Leave over night and then filter.

9. From tek “SAVE THIS PRECIPITATE. Why this? because AFOAF has yet to see any data on the solubility of the phenoxide (morphenate). it could be > 20mg/mL, it could be much less. if it is much less, that means some of the precipitate is morphine although i really doubt this, and this step is used everywhere, including southeast asia
(What could you do to recover the morphine from this? Would you avoid this by not concentrating the liquid down so much or would that affect the process?)

10. From tek “bring the pH down to 9-9.1 and refrigerate overnight. precipitate will form. this is morphine and codeine base. there may also be SOME salt (NaCl or KCl). if you used sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate, there may also be some of those solids this is why advice was given AGAINST using this stuff.
(What should be used to lower the ph?)

11. From tek “filter/decant this solution THROUGH REAL FILTER PAPER. NOT THROUGH COFFEE FILTERS. COFFEE FILTERS WERE NOT MEANT TO FILTER SMALL ORGANIC MOLECULES. note: this may take a while, but you will get everything.
the solubility of morphine base in water is ~20-30 mg/liter (LITER). if you have 50 mL of solution, you should only have about 1-1.5 mg of morphine in the solution. if you have a LITER of solution, you will have 20 or 30 mgs.
that is why the concentration was so important.”
(What form is the morphine in at this point?)

12. Next post from tek “MORPHINE BASE IS NOT VERY SOLUBLE IN ALMOST ANY ORGANIC SOLVENT THAT IS IMISCIBLE WITH WATER. it is MOST soluble in ethanol, methanol, glymol, and highly concentrated aqueous PEG solutions, TEA, hunigs base, etc. Basically anything that is SUPER polar (water soluble), but also has some saturated carbon component to it.
I know how it sounds, but it is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. good luck trying. it will take you GALLONS of even the most polar solvent (ethyl acetate) to get even 500 mgs of morphine out of pH 9 water (even if you add a ton of brine to the water).
it was tried by AFOAF. he sat in front of the rotavap for 3 hours, pulled off 3 liters of EtAC and got literally nothing. nothing at all. not even fogged up glassware from a thin film. he tried it again wtih DCM and Ether. NOTHING nothing whatsoever. complete waste of time.


RECRYSTALLIZATION OF MORPHINE BASE:
1. take the DRY solid (which may be yellow or brown) from the previous step and dissolve it in 25-50 mL of HOT ethanol/methanol (the less the better). note that you DO NOT want to use "everclear" or 95.6% ethanol. if you need to, use denatured ethanol. you want ZERO water. they sell denatured ethanol in the US, which is 80-90% ethanol with 10 or 20 % methanol or isopropanol (they stopped using benzene a long time ago). this denatured stuff is FINE. if you cant find something like this, use methanol.

**note: the volume mentioned is just a general guideline. you want to use THE MINIMUM amount of ethanol necessary to dissolve the solid.*

2) filter this solution, while hot, through real laboratory filter paper.

3) add 1/2 the volume used in step 1 of diethyl ether or assuming that you are using ethanol or denatured ethanol, you can also use a hexanes (pet ether). the hexanes wont work with methanol because hexanes and methanol are immiscable.

4) let the previous solution (1 part ethanol/methanol to 0.5 part diethyl ether or hexanes) stand until you start to see signs of precipitate forming.

5) immediately add another 1/2 of the original volume of ethanol of ether or hexanes (resulting in 1:1 ethanol to ether or hexanes).

6) refrigerate/cool this solution.

7) collect the solids that form by filtering the solution. keep the remaining solvent (the mother liquour).

the result should be near or greater than 80% purity, with the majority of the impurities being codeine, solvent, and water. if you are REALLY ANAL, you can repeat this step up to 2 more times. if you did it 2 more times, you would have >95% purity.


note: if you dont see anything at step 4 after a while, you can try scraping the inside of the glass with something, or you can add a single grain of tablesalt or something.

if you still dont see anything, you can add more ether.

if you still dont see anything then you used too much ethanol in step 1. you should evaporate EVERYTHING back to dryness, and then add LESS hot ethanol this time around.”
(does this seam correct? I've read that all you really need to do is dissolve it in hcl and filter it though activated carbon or a water filter cartrage and then slowly evaporate off the hcl.)


I know this is a lot of questions but i would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:33 AM
DestroyedMatter DestroyedMatter is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

heh. im actually very intrested in this. sorry i got no answers but im curious where can you still buy pods online?
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Old 07-28-2012, 04:27 PM
scottlee scottlee is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Poppy pods are available online. There are online shops just selling them or you can get them from sites that sell arts and crafts stuff or florist stuff. They have to be from the papaver somniferum variety. I never tried to extract morphine. Most of the teks out there simmer the pods in water then add calcium hydroxide till the ph reaches 11. The morphine should bond with the calcium hydroxide to become water soluble calcium morphenate. The solution is filtered to remove plant material and other alcoids. Then the solution is brought to ph 9 with Ammonium chloride. This should make morphine base presipitate out of the solution which can be recovered with coffee filters. The tek in the first question has several extra steps and starts with a solution at ph 2. I asked the questions about the first tek because im not sure if the majority of the teks out there similar to what ive described are over silmplyfing the process and wanted to know whether the first tek will result in larger or purer yields or is over complicating the process. Thanks again for any help you can offer
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

I have never tried to isolate morphine from raw pod material. I have extracted alkaloids from pods though. Just a tip but the freezing and thawing processes should be done more than once. Make sure the pods are thoroughly pulverized. You should use a generous amount of liquid initially as you will be concentrating it later. Heating over a flame and stirring is okay as long as the heat doesn't reach even a slight simmer. Concentrating with heat is better than "ice-o-lating" imo. As far as which acid/base to control ph, you already answered that. Still base at step 4. Beyond that I will let someone with more knowledge and experience answer. Good luck. Do you have any lab equipment?
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:28 AM
scottlee scottlee is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Have you had good results extracting alkaloids? Is the method you use similar? Everything I've read except that tek and I think some old patent starts with just plain water. However the person who wrote it did sound like they knew what they was talking about. I'll post the proper thing not the cut down thing with a load of questions what I put up originally. Might help get some answers. No lab equipment yet. Want to make sure I've got a proven method or one that can be explained to theoretically work first be for I would invest in lab equipment. Do own a large pyrex measuring jug and a 1 micron filter bag as well as cooking pots.Is pyrex alright to be used with hcl at ph2 and NaOH up to ph12? Is it alright to have concentrate it down in a standard metal cooking pot?
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:18 AM
scottlee scottlee is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

These are the 2 teks I've found which seam to the most comprehensive and 1 for making an opium like substance from poppy pods which could be a good starting point. Although if one wanted to create a opium like substance first I think and alcohol extraction would be better and easier. Probably something like warm Isopropyl alcohol. I'll put the more convetional 1 first then followed by the 1 I was origanally asking questions on. Neither mention about wetting and freezing the crushed pods, I read that else where. Is the second a better way to go?Forgot I added questions and notes to this after the steps as this was going to be my origanal post before I came across the second tek.

This Tek works. It is based upon the paper “Documentation of a heroin manufacturing process in Afghanistan,” Created for the UN by the German police. This paper shows the process by which Afghanis make heroin from opium latex. These people know what they are doing, and don’t fuss around, they might be killed if they waste products or material, or the at the very least might not get paid. As will be shown in this Tek, there is absolutely no reason this wont work with poppy pods. You can use this with CFO, CPS, ABCDEFG or what ever other acronym for poppy pod concentrate you like. You can also defat or use wax, or whatever you want, but its not needed. Here is a list of what is needed.

Equitment and materials needed:
100 big poppy pods, or 30 ish doses. Any less is not really worth the effort. (Poppy pods have to be from the Papaver Somniferum variaty)
Water (Some teks say to use 10 times the weight when using opium but with pods can be reduced to 5 times the weight. 1ml = 1g )
A BIG pot. I use a brewing pot with a spigot and a filter. Really easy.
Mesh strainer
A siphon starter with a shield to prevent siphoning sediment (brewing store)
PH papers (no need for an expensive meters) (Some teks say a meter will be better, the meter will have to be able to work in tempretures of >80c)
(optional) A press, one can be made with a jack and some wood, and some creativity.
( Fine cloth, Bio diesel bags, Coffee filter papers)
(Thermometer)
Calcium Oxide. About 250g or less. Make sure it’s Calcium Oxide. Other compounds may work, but Calcium Oxide is guaranteed to work, You can get the lowest purity compound (it think its called technical grade) from a chem. supply house. Really, just buy it from a chem. supply house, the hardware store generally doesn’t have this type of lime. You can make it pretty easy as well, google it. (Calcium Hydroxide can also be used. Avalible as Builders Lime or Picking Lime)
Ammonium Chloride. 3x the amount of Calcium Oxide. The chems are pretty cheap, and I don’t have quantities (didn’t measure when I did it, sorry) so this is probably more than you need.

The Process:
1) Powder the pods, and I mean powder. Strain the dry powder through the mesh and re grind anything left in the strainer. I use a food processor (Teks for cooked flake opium say remove the seeds first as they contain oils that will end up in the final product. Dont think this is a problem here but if it is the whole seeds should be returned to the podds once powdered as they can have latex on the sides of they)


2)boil a pig pot of water, enough to make tea out of all the pods, let it cool to 80 C, add powdered poppy pods and stir well. Cover and let sit for 5 min so the powder can absorb some water. ( Think this should be longer. Some teks for this and making cooked flake opium leave this solution at 70c for a few hours, no higher than tis as some teks same morphine becomes usless phesomorphine at tempretures over 85c)


3) slowly mix in teaspoons of Calcium, wait 4 min, test the pH and repeat until the pH is around 11, but not lower than 10. Let is sit, covered, for 4-12 hrs. re test PH, should be between 10-12 (Maybe add in smaller amounts than a teaspoon at a time)


What you now have: you now have poppy mush, containing both water soluble parts and water insoluble parts, and calcium morphenate, which despite shitty information to the contrary, is very water soluble. So... lets get rid of all that insolable crap


4)Filter and use the press to press out the filtrate. Fine linen works well as a filter material, or silk, or polyester. Mix the pulp with a good amount of water, and repeat. (Bio diesel bags can also be used, The finer the better. Avalible down to 0.1 micron. You would want to first filter through a fine metal strainer first to stop the bio desil bag cloging up. Dont for get to squash the liquid out of the plant material in the metal strainer into the bio diesil bag.)


5) now let the liquid sit for atleast a day, in a cool, dark area. It is good to use a big glass or clear plastic container so you can see the sediment. You want as much sediment to form as possible, because if it forms later it will end up in your final product. keeping it cool slows micro-currents and encourages sediment. When the sentiment has formed, carefully skim off any crap floating on the surface, then CAREFULLY siphon the liquid of the sediment. It should be coffee coloured. (optional: now filter through several coffee filters, but this can take a while.) ( Might not be nessasary if a bio diesil bag was used.)


What you now have: all the water-soluble crap, the soluble morphine, and a little bit of insoluble’s (but not a lot). Soooooo... lets precipitate that morphine.


6) slowly add Ammonium chloride, while stirring, till the solution stabilizes at pH 9. Leave the solution to sit overnight, Check pH again, adjust, and filter through wet cloth. Dry the filtrate, that’s your morphine base. Discard liquid. (Some teks heat the solution back upto 70c before adding the Ammonium cloride then leave to cool before filtering. Some teks say to filter though coffee filter paper , scientific filter paper maybe even better.)


That’s it. Don’t overcomplicate stuff, your life will be better for it.
If you want some quantities for the chemicals, read the article and do some math.

Yeild was 4 grams of (what it think was) 50% morphine, from 100 really big, good pods. HCL can be applied to for the hydrochloride salt (But thats another topic), or just smoke it. About 160-200Mg is a great experience. Have not tried oral ingestion of base."
Hope you enjoy!"


And now the tek my first post was based off


"let me mention a few things. all of them are suggestions and are not necessary. all of the previous techniques WILL WORK. these suggestions will optimize any procedure if implemented properly and with care. all of them describe something that has and will never happen in reality and are complete works of fiction. they are mainly presented to give the reader a better understanding and to get the thought process focused on crucial aspects of the overall procedure.


1) unless you live in afghanistan, southest asia, or eastern europe, the poppy pods you will get almost ALWAYS have a morphine content of about 0.5% dry weight (rarely more, but even more rarely less). "arizona" poppies are included.
an extraction of anything less than 100 grams is a complete waste of your time. best to use a kilo or more (depending on the pod size, a kilo should be between 500 and 150 pods)


2) seeds are worthless. they contain no more than .01% morphine by weight (this is backed up by a case of an OD from poppy seed tea, brewed with 2 lbs of seeds, resulting in 600 mgs in the person's blood at TOD). seeds do not actually develop morphine INSIDE. seeds get COVERED in a small layer of sap extruded by the plant during its lifetime. this sap contains a small amount of morphine.
seeds may contain other alkaloids and even basic (amine) tanins(phenols) which will contaminate the result (morphine is an amino phenol). NONE of the industrial procedures for the extraction of morphine from straw utilize seeds. 100% use dry pods, deseeded.


3)PULVERIZE the pods. dont just grind them up. when a natural product specialist quantiatively extracts a compound, he/she does not just "grind it up." they put the source material (dried roots, pods, sea-sponge, jelly fish, whatever) in a cell-lysing sonnicator or a food processor for HOURS at a time.
this is not just: "throw the pods in a coffee grinder for a minute or so." this is: "throw the pods in a cofee grinder for an hour"
if you do this, you will never ever need more than 3 extractions. nor will you need hot or boiling solvent.


4) almost every single one of the "patents" available by a google search are completely worthless. a patent does not have to describe a process that works, nor does it have to describe a process that is good or efficient. all it has to do is not involve the use of any OTHER patents.
unfortunately, this extraction is exceedingly difficult and tricky. it really is. the morphine content is low, there are tons of impurities with similar chemical structures, etc.
really the only way to produce a high quality prep is to DO IT YOURSELF AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
dont use Ca(OH)2. use NaOH/KOH. they are easy to buy, and they are not particularly "watched." you wouldnt need more than 100 grams (standard small bottle) anyway.
dont use store bought "pool" muriatic acid. get good HCl from a real chemical supplier. again, this stuff is pretty damn common, and shouldnt be a concern anywhere. once again DO NOT USE SULFURIC ACID. dont use the acetate either. it mucks it up later on.
get a pH tester (and calibration solutions). pH strips are useless for this because you need 0.1 pH accuracy. a 15 dollar quick tester is fine.
Why the tester? the pKa of the tertiary amonium acid is something like 8.5 and the pKa of the phenol is 9.6 or 9.5. you literally need a pH of EXACTLY 9.1 or 9 to get a good result (mentioned already, but just an explanation)
realistically, the only way to do this is to extract it with either some aqueous HCl (pH of about 2.5) or some acidic methanol or ethanol (feel free to use denatured ethanol, as it is typically denatured with methanol or ispropanol, not benzene) and then concentrate it.
if you use acid (Water), you should bring the pH up to about 8-9 when you concentrate it. dont concentrate it with acid.
dont use coffee filters for filtering the final product. they are crap for filtering powder (which is what the morphine and codeine will be when you intially precipitate them). get real laboratory filter papers.
either whatman 40s or whatman 42s (8 micron and 2.5 micron respectively, but not 41s).


1) pulverize the straw as much as possible. submerge in water brought to a pH between 2.5 and 3. let stand for several hours (overnight, but not days).


2) filter through a stainless mesh to get the big chunks
**) IDEALLY you would filter it through a second, smaller mesh filter, like those sometimes used in coffee makers (not a paper coffee filter, but more of a plastic, small mesh filter) like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-GTF-...1326450&sr=1-2


3) filter throught an actual coffee filter (paper). make sure that the coffee filter you are using does not have small holes. these ones typically DO NOT have holes, but are so thin that several must be used:http://www.amazon.com/BUNN-BCF250-Co...326450&sr=1-24
the type pictured here (the one on the top of the pile) typically DO have holes: http://www.dkimages.com/discover/pre...774/172387.JPG.
the holes are there so that a small amount of the small-grain ground coffee beans actually go into the pot. this is NOT desirable for the process described here.


4) you now have (most likely) a TON, probably a liter or 2, of an acidic, filtered, poppy pod extract.
you want to concentrate it.
bring the pH up to about 8 (near the pH range where the morphine is not soluble in the water). why this pH? the double bond in the morphine is NOT sensitive to base (hydroxide). nor is any other part of the molecule. at a pH of 8 (or, really, even 9) there is no acid left, and the pH is not high enough to "deprotonate" any of the weakly acidic carbon acids on morphine (all of which have pka values above 20, so it doesnt matter anyway).
realistically, you could probably bring the pH even higher than that without being concerned (again, because morphine is pretty inert to base), but considering the small quantity that you will likely end up with, it is probably better to be paranoid and stick to a safe pH.
if you follow my advice here, you can nearly boil the solution. yes. i wouldnt recommend it, but it is done ALL THE TIME. again, the solution (at the pH I mentioned) is pretty inert to morphine.
it would probably be best (safest) to do this at a lower temp, somewhere near 70 C or maybe even a bit higher. concentrate it WAY down.
how much should you have in the end?
if 100 grams of straw was used, and (for the sake of simplicity) the morphine content was 1%, there will be 1 gram of morphine in the solution. the solubility of morphine HCl is about 20 mg/mL (it is actually a little bit more) at room temp (higher at higher temps)
that means, you will want no less than 50 mL of solution. so, basicallly, concentrate the HELL out of it.


5) now, this is something that not everyone knows because the dont have AFAF who has done this before.
this concentration, although it will not affect the morphine, WILL affect a bunch of other stuff in the solution. bring the pH back DOWN to like 2-3.


6) let it sit in the fridge overnight


7) a bunch of white/grey/brown sludge will form (yes, sludge, not powder). filter this off. no. it is not morphine. it is not codeine. there will of course be SOME morphine in it because there will be some of the solution left in it, but it is not worth it to save it. because you had previously concentrated the solution, it is ok to ADD a bit of acidic water here to wash any soluble alkaloids out of the sludge (dont use more than 20 mL)
if you are really worried about squeezing every last mg out of this process, you can save it. but if you are trully concerned with miligrams, then you should just make tea.
take this now acidic, filtered, concentrated solution and bring the pH WAY up to 12. (yes, very high, dont worry and DONT USE SODIUM BICARB OR CARBONATE). ensure that the pH STAYS at 12. this is best done by checking the pH a few hours after you did this.


9) let the aforementioned solution sit in the fridge overnight. precipitate will form.


10) filter the basic solution.
SAVE THIS PRECIPITATE. Why this? because AFOAF has yet to see any data on the solubility of the phenoxide (morphenate). it could be > 20mg/mL, it could be much less. if it is much less, that means some of the precipitate is morphine (although i really doubt this, and this step is used everywhere, including southeast asia)


11)bring the pH down to 9-9.1 and refrigerate overnight. precipitate will form. this is morphine and codeine base. there may also be SOME salt (NaCl or KCl). if you used sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate, there may also be some of those solids (this is why advice was given AGAINST using this stuff.)


12)filter/decant this solution THROUGH REAL FILTER PAPER. NOT THROUGH COFFEE FILTERS. COFFEE FILTERS WERE NOT MEANT TO FILTER SMALL ORGANIC MOLECULES. note: this may take a while, but you will get everything.
the solubility of morphine base in water is ~20-30 mg/liter (LITER). if you have 50 mL of solution, you should only have about 1-1.5 mg of morphine in the solution. if you have a LITER of solution, you will have 20 or 30 mgs.
that is why the concentration was so important.
more info that you would not know if you did not have AFOAF who had ACTUALLY DONE THE PROCEDURE, rather than some sophomore biochemistry student who "totally knows what he/she is talking about" because they did an internship over the summer and took an O-chem lab course.
Here is the clincher:
MORPHINE BASE IS NOT VERY SOLUBLE IN ALMOST ANY ORGANIC SOLVENT THAT IS IMISCIBLE WITH WATER. it is MOST soluble in ethanol, methanol, glymol, and highly concentrated aqueous PEG solutions, TEA, hunigs base, etc. Basically anything that is SUPER polar (water soluble), but also has some saturated carbon component to it.
I know how it sounds, but it is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. good luck trying. it will take you GALLONS of even the most polar solvent (ethyl acetate) to get even 500 mgs of morphine out of pH 9 water (even if you add a ton of brine to the water).
it was tried by AFOAF. he sat in front of the rotavap for 3 hours, pulled off 3 liters of EtAC and got literally nothing. nothing at all. not even fogged up glassware from a thin film. he tried it again wtih DCM and Ether. NOTHING nothing whatsoever. complete waste of time.


RECRYSTALLIZATION OF MORPHINE BASE:
1) take the DRY solid (which may be yellow or brown) from the previous step and dissolve it
in 25-50 mL of HOT ethanol/methanol (the less the better). note that you DO NOT want to use "everclear" or 95.6% ethanol. if you need to, use denatured ethanol. you want ZERO water. they sell denatured ethanol in the US, which is 80-90% ethanol with 10 or 20 % methanol or isopropanol (they stopped using benzene a long time ago). this denatured stuff is FINE. if you cant find something like this, use methanol.
**note: the volume mentioned is just a general guideline. you want to use THE MINIMUM amount of ethanol necessary to dissolve the solid.


2) filter this solution, while hot, through real laboratory filter paper.


3) add 1/2 the volume used in step 1 of diethyl ether or assuming that you are using ethanol or denatured ethanol, you can also use a hexanes (pet ether). the hexanes wont work with methanol because hexanes and methanol are immiscable.

4) let the previous solution (1 part ethanol/methanol to 0.5 part diethyl ether
or hexanes) stand until you start to see signs of precipitate forming.


5) immediately add another 1/2 of the original volume of ethanol of ether or hexanes (resulting in 1:1 ethanol to ether or hexanes).


6) refrigerate/cool this solution.


7) collect the solids that form by filtering the solution. keep the remaining solvent (the mother liquour).
the result should be near or greater than 80% purity, with the majority of the impurities being codeine, solvent, and water. if you are REALLY ANAL, you can repeat this step up to 2 more times. if you did it 2 more times, you would have >95% purity.
note: if you dont see anything at step 4 after a while, you can try scraping the inside of the glass with something, or you can add a single grain of tablesalt or something.
if you still dont see anything, you can add more ether.
if you still dont see anything then you used too much ethanol in step 1. you should evaporate EVERYTHING back to dryness, and then add LESS hot ethanol this time around.

Last edited by scottlee; 07-30-2012 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Needed corecting
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2012, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

I'm curious as to whether anyone can track down some articles published by Tasmanian Alkaloids (the largest, most efficient industrial producer of legal morphine alkaloids in the world) or people affiliated with them... University of Tasmania, Hobart is licensed to work with poppies so undoubtedly there are some graduate papers, dissertations, etc. floating about.

I've actually spent quite a bit of time mulling over the subject and consider something along these lines to be ideal...

1.) prepare the pods (freeze, powder, etc.)
2.) extract in acidified (ph 2.5-4) water (5x by weight) with temp maintained at 70 degrees C,
with stirring and water added as needed for as long as desired (the longer
the better in my opinion.)
3.) filter out plant material (cheesecloth) and collect extract

from this point on, this could probably be treated similarly to the opium solution in morphine-heroin production. But I digress...

4.) treat extract with KOH to form Calcium Morphinate
5.) filter out precipitate of other alkaloids. This could be done by cheesecloth, or for increased purity add activated charcoal to the extract then filter. This could also be done later.
6.)Increase Ph to 8.5-9 with ammonium chloride. Morphine should precipitate
out.
7.) filter and enjoy

-C
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Old 09-16-2012, 02:12 PM
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Heart Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

The down fall of the traditional morphine extraction is crystallization of the freebase morphine from the morphinate solution. Unless done on a large scale, yield loss is considerable. It's designed for people who have more opium than technological resources. A family of poor Asian farmers can grow and harvest the plant material easier than they can purchase and transport solvents.

People shy away from biphasic extraction of morphine from aqueous solution because it has poor solubility in most organic solvents, but amyl alcohols may actually be a convenient solution to this problem. There's also still that ionic exchange resin concept floating around.
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Old 09-16-2012, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

I heard that mentioned somewhere, can't remember where, can't remember what was said... Do you mind giving me a refresher?

Reading up on the wiki for Kompot or Polish Heroin (nasty stuff, but still interesting in terms of opiate extraction) they mention that the two anonymous polish students who 'perfected' the process for making it used ion exchange resin.

enjoy,

-C
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Does anyone know the isolelectric point for morphine? I know it's between pH 8 and 9 but that's just it, knowing it exactly, and being able to measure precisely, would make precipitation easier. I've come across it before but for some reason don't manage to commit it to memory.

The freezing, thawing of plant material in preparation for the extraction sounds like a very good idea, it's a step used by pharmaceutical companies, I know.

This is one of the best discussions on this topic I've seen. Great to see!
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

See my post here: http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showpost.p...0&postcount=89

The isoelectric point of morphine is (in theory) pH 8.86. The issue is that it is next to impossible to hit exactly that pH, especially considering that the act of precipitating morphine actually changes the pH. Being off from that pH by even 0.5 will tank you precipitation yields. It's what makes morphine extraction such a bitch for home chemists.

If I had to pull morphine from pods, I would go brute force, STB: add ground pods to an equal volume 5M soln of NaOH, let soak for 4-5 hours, filter, allow microparticulate to settle, decant, then add enough CO2 to get the pH below 6 for a defat with heptane. Last step would be to slow-vap the water off under light heat to leave a goo consisting of morphine bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate. The morphine should dissolve in ethanol, while the baking soda should not, the ethanol could then be evap'd to yield the crude.

Going with an STB route would ensure that no alkaloid remains stuck in the plant matter. Also minimizes the exposure to acid, which degrades morphine really quickly.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Problems:
1)You can't change the ph of water with calcium carbonate because it is nearly insoluble. I tried and it doesn't work. Calcium hydroxide would be a better chance, but still only a gram dissolves in a liter of water. They say the trick is stirring and heat, i don't know how it works.
2)Ammonium chloride doesn't change the PH, it just reacts with the base to form ammonia which lowers the ph. So just use ammonia in the first place?
3)Filtering is a nightmare, decanting takes forever. The insoluble calcium is like dust, plus the pod dust and dirt and everything else.
4)Adding base precipitates fats for god sake. That goopy shit can't be morphine?
5)Filtering out the precipitate is just as hard. Weird thin goop But it does resemble codeine base vaguely. I am 80% it is fats, i smoked it and it made me cough like hell and i didn't feel anything.


Unfortunately morphine base nor salts are soluble in any solvent immiscible in water, only polar solvents work to my knowledge. My next attempt will be with HOT methanol for an hour. Cold does not extract a damn thing (except fats) for some reason, also to my disappointment. Also a few drops of HCL will be added to make sure everything will be soluble in water for the next step. Now after it is all evaporated redissolve in water and filter out everything, defat with camp fuel, then add base. Morphine base should be insoluble in water and fall out of solution.

^^^yes i like the naoh idea, from tea experience pod material really holds onto the morphine. That would solve this problem. As long as morphine would survive the strong base, i know codeine gets killed by strong base even a strong solution of sodium carbonate.

Last edited by bmays04; 11-08-2012 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:35 AM
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Heart Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

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Originally Posted by bmays04 View Post
Problems:
1)You can't change the ph of water with calcium carbonate because it is nearly insoluble. I tried and it doesn't work. Calcium hydroxide would be a better chance, but still only a gram dissolves in a liter of water. They say the trick is stirring and heat, i don't know how it works.
2)Ammonium chloride doesn't change the PH, it just reacts with the base to form ammonia which lowers the ph. So just use ammonia in the first place?
3)Filtering is a nightmare, decanting takes forever. The insoluble calcium is like dust, plus the pod dust and dirt and everything else.
4)Adding base precipitates fats for god sake. That goopy shit can't be morphine?
5)Filtering out the precipitate is just as hard. Weird thin goop But it does resemble codeine base vaguely. I am 80% it is fats, i smoked it and it made me cough like hell and i didn't feel anything.


Unfortunately morphine base nor salts are soluble in any solvent immiscible in water, only polar solvents work to my knowledge. My next attempt will be with HOT methanol for an hour. Cold does not extract a damn thing (except fats) for some reason, also to my disappointment. Also a few drops of HCL will be added to make sure everything will be soluble in water for the next step. Now after it is all evaporated redissolve in water and filter out everything, defat with camp fuel, then add base. Morphine base should be insoluble in water and fall out of solution.

^^^yes i like the naoh idea, from tea experience pod material really holds onto the morphine. That would solve this problem. As long as morphine would survive the strong base, i know codeine gets killed by strong base even a strong solution of sodium carbonate.
Technically ammonium chloride is a weak acid, lowering the pH. Ammonia on the other hand is a weak base, which would increase pH.

Also, according to the Merck Index morphine has reasonable solubility in "amyl alcohol." Not sure which amyl alcohol, probably pentan-1-ol. Can be bought or even tediously isolated as a byproduct of anaerobic fermentation.
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Last edited by BungHole; 11-09-2012 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Is it possible to de-fat with paraffin wax or toluene before precipitating out the morphine. The STB idea sounds good. Are there other alternatives to co2 and heptane? Has this method been tried or had a step by step tek written up for it?
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic View Post
See my post here: http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showpost.p...0&postcount=89

The isoelectric point of morphine is (in theory) pH 8.86. The issue is that it is next to impossible to hit exactly that pH, especially considering that the act of precipitating morphine actually changes the pH. Being off from that pH by even 0.5 will tank you precipitation yields. It's what makes morphine extraction such a bitch for home chemists.

If I had to pull morphine from pods, I would go brute force, STB: add ground pods to an equal volume 5M soln of NaOH, let soak for 4-5 hours, filter, allow microparticulate to settle, decant, then add enough CO2 to get the pH below 6 for a defat with heptane. Last step would be to slow-vap the water off under light heat to leave a goo consisting of morphine bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate. The morphine should dissolve in ethanol, while the baking soda should not, the ethanol could then be evap'd to yield the crude.

Going with an STB route would ensure that no alkaloid remains stuck in the plant matter. Also minimizes the exposure to acid, which degrades morphine really quickly.
Is an equal volume enought? Most teks say to use 5x the volume. What is the ph of 5m solution of NaOH? In theory would it be better to add the ground pods to water and add NaOH till a ph of 11 for a STB meathod? Why use CO2 instead of an acid to lower the ph? You would need to filter the ethanol to remove the baking soda before evaporating. I've notices that small disposible bottles of CO2 can be bought from builders supplys as there used in portable welders and bike shops sell very small bottles made to inflate bike tyres. CO2 can be made with vinigar and baking soda but i have no idea how much you can produce this way and if its worth it. Do you just slowly bubbly it though the liquid or has it got to be in a sealed container? Does it take alot of CO2 to lower the ph?

Last edited by scottlee; 11-18-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:55 PM
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Heart Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

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Is an equal volume enought? Most teks say to use 5x the volume. What is the ph of 5m solution of NaOH? In theory would it be better to add the ground pods to water and add NaOH till a ph of 11 for a STB meathod? Why use CO2 instead of an acid to lower the ph? You would need to filter the ethanol to remove the baking soda before evaporating. I've notices that small disposible bottles of CO2 can be bought from builders supplys as there used in portable welders and bike shops sell very small bottles made to inflate bike tyres. CO2 can be made with vinigar and baking soda but i have no idea how much you can produce this way and if its worth it. Do you just slowly bubbly it though the liquid or has it got to be in a sealed container? Does it take alot of CO2 to lower the ph?
So many questions, all which could be understood by a simple theoretical understanding of acid base chemistry. . .
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Hey, bung, sorry to be repetitive, but I did look and couldn't find the old ion exchange resin thread. Could you link it?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

damn. i feel sorry for this guy, how hard could adjusting PH be?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:34 AM
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Heart Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

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Originally Posted by cws910 View Post
Hey, bung, sorry to be repetitive, but I did look and couldn't find the old ion exchange resin thread. Could you link it?
http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread...exchange+resin

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Originally Posted by dephdiddy View Post
damn. i feel sorry for this guy, how hard could adjusting PH be?
It can be accomplished by the seasoned crack head.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Im sure I could adjust ph levels I was just asking why use co2 , just would like to understand the reason and chemistry behind it instead of using an acid. Ive seen cheap kits designed for introducing co2 into aquiriums. they comprise of a dissposible can on co2 and a part to help dissolve the co2 into the water. They are either in weight or ml. Only thing im not sure is how the diffuser bit will hold up in a solution of ph 11 and the amount of co2 needed. How can i find out how much co2 would be needed to bring 500ml of solution down from ph 11 to ph 6?
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlee View Post
Im sure I could adjust ph levels I was just asking why use co2 , just would like to understand the reason and chemistry behind it instead of using an acid. Ive seen cheap kits designed for introducing co2 into aquiriums. they comprise of a dissposible can on co2 and a part to help dissolve the co2 into the water. They are either in weight or ml. Only thing im not sure is how the diffuser bit will hold up in a solution of ph 11 and the amount of co2 needed. How can i find out how much co2 would be needed to bring 500ml of solution down from ph 11 to ph 6?
500ml of what... We really don't know exactly what is in this solution (bio material and whatnot), so we can't say a specific amount. just observe the ph as it drops.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:27 AM
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Im sure I could adjust ph levels I was just asking why use co2 , just would like to understand the reason and chemistry behind it instead of using an acid.
Dude, think about it.

Here's a hint, just so you realize this is a pedagogical exercise and not simple harassment:
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Thanks for all the help from everyone. This is a short bit of fiction writing accumulating the information I have gained. Even though it is fiction it is based in the real world so if there any faults please point them out. Thanks again. There are little bits of missing information where there are “ “. This information would be greatly appreciated. Where it reads morphine bicarbonate should it read morphine base? Where the ph is raised to 11 should it be raised higher, maybe to 12?

So theoretically if I wanted to extract morphine from dried poppy pods I would buy poppy pods from the internet using online shops that sell them such as florists and hobby and craft shops. I would have to make sure the poppy pods are of the papaver somniferum species. I think 500 grams or half a kilo of poppy pods would be a good amount to use as the amount of morphine extracted would be worthwhile and the amount is not to large that there is a large volume of liquid to evaporate later. The typical morphine content of dried poppy pods is 0.5 to 1 percent so starting with 500 grams I should finish with 2 and a half to 5 grams of morphine. The rest of the weight of the dried poppy pods is plant material, plant fats and other alkaloids. I would first remove the seeds from the dried poppy pods by snapping off the top of the pod by hand or cutting it off with scissors and shaking the seeds out. There’s no morphine content in the seeds but there might be a small amount of plant matter containing morphine on the outside of the seeds. I would then grind the pods as finely as possible in a coffee grinder or food processor until it resembles dust. The reason for this is to increase the surface area of the dried poppy pods to aid the extraction of morphine into a liquid. I would then take the dried poppy pods put them in a plastic container like a Tupperware or sandwich box and add a small amount of water just to absorb into the dried poppy pod powder so it clumps together. Like the consistence of wet sand. I would then put this container into the freezer for a couple of hours then remove it and leave it out to defrost for an hour. The reason for this is that as the water freezes when its in the freezer it expands and breaks up the cells of the plant matter which contain the alkaloids, one of which is morphine. The solubility of morphine bicarbonate which is what will end up with is “ “ so using 1ml of water for 1g of poppy pod which contains about 50 to 10 milligrams of morphine is more than enough. I would need a container that’s large enough to hold 500 grams of the powdered poppy pods and 500ml of water. A glass flask or beaker would be best but as there is a large pyrex measuring jug in my kitchen I would use that. I would pour 500ml of distilled water into the pyrex jug. Distilled water can be bought at mechanic and car part stores were it is sold for topping up batteries. I would then add the powdered pods o the jug with the distilled water. Next I would slowly add Sodium hydroxide (NaOH). I know that the ph level of a 5 mole soulition of NaOh in water is ph14 and that a 5 mol solution has 40 grams of NaOH to every liter. Im aiming for less than a ph level of 11 so I shouldn’t needed for than 20 grams. Sodium hydroxide can be bought from builders merchants sold as lye, drain cleaner or online from soap making shops. The Sodium hydroxide needs to be added slowly as its reaction with water heats it up and too much at one time can cause the water to boil and spit out. I would add it to the water using a stainless steel spoon as stainless steel won’t react with the Sodium hydroxide. I would wear safety gloves, glasses, face mask or respirator and long sleves when doing this. It needs to be done in a very well ventilated room or even better outside. Whistle adding the NaOH I would moitor the ph level with a ph meter and stop adding the NaOH when the ph level reaches 11. I would then use the stainless steel spoon to stir the poppy pods in the jug and leave for four hours. I woud then re-check the ph level and add more NaOH if necessary and leave for another hour. The NaOH reacts with the morphine alkaloid to form a anionic (morphinate) form (I think it is morphine bicarbonate) which is solubility of “ “ in basic solutions of pH values of 11 or above. Other opium alkaloids are relatively insoluble and, in general, at least partially precipitate out of the basic aqueous solution. This reaction might need heat, I’m not sure. If so It can’t be heated above 80c as at the temperature the morphine breaks down. I would then need to filter the contents of the jug to remove the plant mater and the other alkaloids. A butcher funnel, filter papper and a vacuum would be best. A funnel and a couple coffee filter papers should be ok. I have a 0.5 micron filter bag so would use that. Filter bags can be bought online from shops selling equipment for creating your own bio-fuel. I would filer the liquid into a 1 litre mason jar. I would then add CO2 to the water in the mason jar. CO2 can be added to the water using kits of disposable cans of CO2 and diffusers available from aquarium shops and online aquarium shops as its used to keep water plants healthy. The CO2 reacts with water to create carbonic acid (H2CO3). The H2CO3 in turn reacts with the NaOH to create sodium bicarbonate (NaCOH3) which is just plain baking powder. You need to monitor the ph level as you are adding the CO2. As the NaOH becomes NaCOH3 the ph level drops. Then all the the NaOH has become NaCOH3 the ph will be 6. When the ph level reaches 6 I would stop adding CO2. Then I would add “ “ml of hexane to the mason jar, close the lid and shake for “ “ minutes. The plant fats should now be in the hexane. Allow the liquids to settle and separate. I would then use a large syringe to remove the hexane. The hexane is the layer that has a clear colour and has a thick syrupy consistence. Is there a way to easily tell the difference between the 2 layers? Large syringes can be bought from garden centres or online garden shops as they are used in horticulture. The water now contains morphine bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate. I would next evaporate the water. Things that speed up the evaporation of water are surface area, movement and temperature. You can increases the surface area by putting the water in a container with a large area. I would use a glass casserole dish as there’s one in my kitchen. I could put the dish in a oven on a low temperature. No higher than 80c as morphine degrades above that temperature. Or I could add heat and movement putting a fan heater next to the dish or simple put a lamp over the dish to add some heat. I would then let it evaporate down to a thick gloop. I would then add ethanol (or isopropanol as its easier to get, avalible from chemists or pharmacies as rubbing alcohol and hardware shops as a paint thinner) to the gloop. The solubility of morphine bicarbonate is “ “ and as the most amount of morphine I as likely to have is 5 grams I will use “ “ml of ethanol. Morphine bicarbonate will dissolve in the ethanol and the sodium bicarbonate will not. I would then filter off the sodium bicarbonate and evaporate the ethanol in the same way as the water. Ethanol evaporates faster than water. When all the ethanol has evaporated I will have a relatively pure morphine bicarbonate.

Last edited by scottlee; 11-25-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Changed the above chapter of my fictional book so it now reads

To extract morphine from dried poppy pods I would buy poppy pods from the internet using online shops that sell them such as florists and hobby and craft shops. I would have to make sure the poppy pods are of the papaver somniferum species. I think 500 grams, that’s half a kilo of poppy pods would be a good amount to use as the amount of morphine extracted would be worthwhile and the amount is not to much that there is a large volume of liquid to evaporate later. The typical morphine content of dried poppy pods to be expected is 0.5 to 1 percent although it can be higher. So starting with 500 grams I should finish with 2 and a half to 5 grams of morphine. The rest of the weight of the dried poppy pods is plant material, plant fats and other alkaloids. I would first remove the seeds from the dried poppy pods by snapping off the top of the pod by hand or cutting it off with scissors and shaking the seeds out. There’s no morphine content in the seeds but there might be a small amount of plant matter containing morphine on the outside of the seeds. I would then grind the pods as finely as possible in a coffee grinder or food processor until it resembles dust. I would grind the pods for up to an hour. The reason for this is to increase the surface area of the dried poppy pods to aid the extraction of morphine into a liquid. I would then take the dried poppy pods put them in a plastic sandwich box and add a small amount of water just to absorb into the dried poppy pod powder so it clumps together, like the consistence of wet sand. I would then put this container into the freezer for a couple of hours, then remove it and leave it out to defrost for an hour or two. The reason for this is that as the water freezes when it’s in the freezer it expands and breaks up the cells of the plant matter which contain the alkaloids, one of which is morphine. The solubility of morphine bicarbonate, which is what will end up with is “ “ so using 1ml of water for 1g of poppy pod, which contains about 50 to 10 milligrams of morphine is more than enough. I would pour 500ml of distilled water into a jar. Distilled water can be bought at mechanic and car part stores were it is sold for topping up batteries. I would then add the powdered pods to the jar with the distilled water. Next I would slowly add Sodium hydroxide (NaOH). I know that I shouldn’t need more than 20 grams of sodium hydroxide to get to the required ph. Sodium hydroxide can be bought from builders merchants sold as lye, drain cleaner or from hobby shops for soap making. The Sodium hydroxide needs to be added slowly as its reaction with water heats it up and too much at one time can cause the water to boil and spit out. I would add it to the water using a stainless steel spoon as stainless steel won’t react with the Sodium hydroxide. I would wear safety gloves, glasses, face mask or respirator and long sleeves when doing this. It needs to be done in a very well ventilated room or even better outside. Whilst adding the NaOH I would monitor the ph level with a ph meter and stop adding the NaOH when the ph level reaches between 11 and 12. I would then use the stainless steel spoon to stir the poppy pods in the jug and leave for four hours. I would then re-check the ph level and add more NaOH if necessary to bring the ph back up to between 11 and 12 and leave for another hour. The NaOH reacts with the morphine alkaloid to form a anionic (morphinate) form which has a solubility of “ “ in basic solutions of pH values of 11 or above. Other opium alkaloids are relatively insoluble and, in general, at least partially precipitate out of the basic aqueous solution. I would then need to filter the contents of the jar to remove the plant mater and the other alkaloids. I would filter though a coffee filter using a funnel into another jar. I would then add CO2 to the water in the jar slowly and monitor it until the ph reaches 6 then stop. The CO2 reacts with water to create carbonic acid (H2CO3). The H2CO3 in turn reacts with the NaOH to create sodium bicarbonate (NaCOH3) which is just plain baking powder. When all the NaOH has become NaCOH3 the ph level will be 6. CO2 can be added to the water using kits of disposable cans of CO2 and diffusers available from aquarium shops where it’s sold to keep water plants healthy. Then I would add “ “ml of hexane to the mason jar, close the lid and shake for “ “ minutes. The plant fats should now be in the hexane. Allow the liquids to settle and separate. I would then use a large syringe to remove the hexane. The hexane is the layer that has a clear colour and has a thick syrupy consistence. Large syringes can be bought from garden centres as they are used in horticulture. The water now contains morphine bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate. I would next evaporate the water by put the water in a glass bowl over a saucepan full of boiling water on the stove. I would monitor the temperature with a thermometer. I would not let the temperature of the contence of the glass bowl go higher than 80c as at this temperature morphine degrades. I would then let it evaporate down to a thick gloop. The solubility of morphine bicarbonate in isopropanol is “ “ and as the most amount of morphine I as likely to have is 5 grams so I would use “ “ml of isopropanol. I would add the isopropanol to the gloop and stir till it becomes mixed together and leave for 1 hour. Isopropanol is available from chemists or pharmacies as rubbing alcohol and hardware shops as a paint thinner. Morphine bicarbonate will dissolve in the isopropanol and the sodium bicarbonate will not. I would then filter the liquid through a coffee filter into a glass casserole dish to remove the sodium bicarbonate. I would use a glass casserole dish as it has a large area and this helps speed up evaporation. Evaporation can also be speeded up by heat and movement so I would place a heater fan blowing hot air over the top of the casserole dish. Isopropanol evaporates faster than water. When all the isopropanol has evaporated I will have relatively pure morphine bicarbonate which can be scraped up from the bottom of the dish with a razor blade.

Still needs a bit of work so any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Last edited by scottlee; 11-26-2012 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:29 AM
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Experiment is key. Don't go full bore with 500g the first run. I just say this because 9/10 things i try don't work out lol. Also, too many words with no paragraph and i would omit the details for now at least. I think you are trying to combine 2 different routes too.

Speaking of Hydroponichronic's route:
40g of co2 needed to neutralize 20g naoh. This solution would be near ph14, to break down the pod material. No freezing or careful prep would be needed to get high yeild. Though high yielding i think you would be left with all the alkaloids. I see it as advanced pod putty without the fats soluble in non-polar solvent. I have never tried this though and really haven't thought about it enough keep in mind.

Speaking of the calcium morphanate precipitation route:
For NaOH 200mg in 500ml water is 0.01molar would be ph12. For calcium hydroxide it is 400mg (800mg would be a saturated solution at rt, solubility decreases with temp), 500mg for calcium carbonate (water won't dissolve that much). For an acid Ammonium Chloride should actually work, BungHole corrected my thinking. Or carbolic acid, maybe even tonic water. After the ph is brought back down from 12 to 9.1 the calcium+ should be gone and morphine base should precipitate out because it is insoluble in water, filter, no need for evaporating off water.

The original idea is sound. Problem is i screwed up multiple things. Now i know calcium hydroxide is likely the only thing that will work and it doesn't require much. Also the ph of 9.1 must be nearly exact any lower will cause things other then morphine base to precipitate but not lower yield *i believe*.
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:18 PM
cws910 cws910 is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmays04 View Post
Experiment is key. Don't go full bore with 500g the first run. I just say this because 9/10 things i try don't work out lol. Also, too many words with no paragraph and i would omit the details for now at least. I think you are trying to combine 2 different routes too.
The problem is that the yields are so damn low... Lets presume 1% morphine by weight, that makes 100g of pods yield LESS than 1 g. If were optimistic and say 75% is recovered... Thats not a lot of powder... Since you're working down from such a comparatively large scale, mechanical losses could ruin your yield. I say do the 500g but be careful not to toss anything, you can always salvage it

Last edited by cws910; 12-06-2012 at 01:58 AM.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2012, 05:19 AM
bmays04 bmays04 is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

True. Ya there is terribly little alkaloids in dry pods especially these days. But at least you could observe precipitate. A vacuum buchner setup and fine filter discs would help. Forget about coffee filters that is for sure. I can also see morphine base not quite being completely insoluble in water. That is a lot of water, no way around it. Maybe make pod putty first then work with that.
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:10 PM
cws910 cws910 is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

I'm still wondering about those tasmanian alkaloid articles... They've got a process, and its GOT to be effective...
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  #29  
Old 12-08-2012, 03:09 AM
bmays04 bmays04 is offline
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Default Re: Help with extracting morphine from poppy pods

That would be great. Its shitty that journals and such are always kept behind usernames and passwords. Lots of interesting info comes up on this search, nothing exactly about extraction of poppy straw though. In any case you still need username and password. There is a short chapter on morphine extraction in "Oxy" by Otto Snow. There is a few short excerpts from industry publications as well as an industrial process from 1954 for extracting poppy straw.

I was thinking today. Maybe a solution of HCl in alcohol would work. The pods would be digested, the gunk could easily be filtered off and everything evaporated. At least the residue would be easy to work with from there. Maybe even possible to precipitate the hydrochloride from a minimal solution with acetone. It works for codeine, but the precipitate tends to redissolve and is also very hard to filter, but then i was working with 1 gram in 250ml of water.

Last edited by bmays04; 12-08-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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