Men's interest magazines and sexism

[ratfrink]

I was originally gonna post this in The Book Nook but I think it's more relevant in here.

Do these make anyone else's blood boil?

I was reading Nuts a few months ago in a waiting room, and in the Sex section it said '95% of women have had a rape fantasy'. Just over the page it said 'women are capable of physically clamping their vagina shut if they don't want to have sex'.

How on earth can anyone get away with publishing that, let alone a popular magazine? I immediately phoned them but didn't get through to anyone but the receptionist, and I wrote to them but they never responded.

Granted, they're not there for an out-and-out male crusade, but they all show a degree of sexism that harks back to the old idea that women are the weaker sex. ALL of these magazines increase sexualisation of women (different to sexuality or sexual health) and it's just fucking disgusting. How can they even consider printing ideas that so blatantly feed the rape/misogyny culture?

It's not just the big lies that do this either, it's the little things dotted all around the magazines. Like in the interviews section the women invariably say 'I like it when the man takes control' or those adverts that show a woman with a videogame controller attached to her. These little hints perpetuate idea that men shoud be in sexual control and that it's okay to keep pestering women for sex if they say no.

What do you lot think about these magazines?

[ObsidianZ]

Alot of the stuff is supposed to be funny or satirical. I think only the lowest common denominator takes them seriously. Everyone else just likes the booby pics.


*ObZ

[Syphilis]

But they are the weaker sex.

[ripley]

The only thing that really grates my nerves is when guys read them in front of women. That happened a lot at my old job. We all had to live together for a couple of weeks at a time, so we were practically tripping over each other. But the magazines really bugged me. Girl sits next to you, put the magazine away. It's seriously not that hard.

[psycho_8b]

Well seeing as they seem to only interview birds from Essex (and other areas where mental evolution ceased generations ago) you're pretty much only going to get that from them. In addition, the only guys I've ever seen read these articles and actually take them seriously are from the same areas.

As Obz said, most of us will only look at it for the booby pics.

[Mantikore]

Well, how many women will read a men's magazine?

Also, freedom of speech.

[Winston_Smith]

Originally Posted by psycho_8b

Well seeing as they seem to only interview birds from Essex (and other areas where mental evolution ceased generations ago) you're pretty much only going to get that from them. In addition, the only guys I've ever seen read these articles and actually take them seriously are from the same areas.

As Obz said, most of us will only look at it for the booby pics.

Feel free to delete this mate, but you reminded me of the following:

Q - What do you call an Essex girl with a brain-cell?
A - Pregnant.

Always tickles me that does..

To be somewhat relevant to the topic:
I agree that most males with a modicum of intelligence will see these magazines for what they are, complete and utter bollocks, save the tit pics.

Woman have their equivalent in Heat magazine and those of that genre in any case, it's all mass-produced nonsense.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by ObsidianZ

Alot of the stuff is supposed to be funny or satirical. I think only the lowest common denominator takes them seriously. Everyone else just likes the booby pics.


*ObZ

Yeah I've heard people say that before, they're like 'oh it's just a joke' well yeah, I get it. But you can't deny that it's sexist, offensive and perpetuates the idea of male dominance.

You wouldn't be saying that if the 'jokes' or 'satire' were aimed at black people. The magazines repeatedly use the word 'bitch' but what if they used the word 'nigger'? What if they said '95% of niggers have had a slavery fantasty'? Or do you think that racism is bad and sexism is just lighthearted fun?

BTW Do you live in the UK? I have a feeling that the Lad Culture is much worse here than in the US/Canada.


EDIT - I used to live in Essex, for the most part you are right. It's basically where chavs were invented.

[Rodrat]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

they said '95% of niggers have had a slavery fantasty'?

ROFL

SERIOUSLY THOUGH
grow up
its just meant for entertainment

[psycho_8b]

Originally Posted by Winston_Smith

Feel free to delete this mate, but you reminded me of the following:

Q - What do you call an Essex girl with a brain-cell?
A - Pregnant.

Always tickles me that does..

To be somewhat relevant to the topic:
I agree that most males with a modicum of intelligence will see these magazines for what they are, complete and utter bollocks, save the tit pics.

Woman have their equivalent in Heat magazine and those of that genre in any case, it's all mass-produced nonsense.

Hehehe...Not bad. I always liked the "What's an Essex bird and a jumbo jet got in common? Big cockpits."

Tonnes more mate!

And yeah, you're right...Women have the same thing with Heat and Closer and all the other stupid magazines only read by bored housewives or dosey cows on the bus who just have to know what Brad and Angelina are doing with that buttplug and baby seat in the picture they saw on telly.

All mass produced bullshit designed to sell.

[Winston_Smith]

Originally Posted by psycho_8b

Hehehe...Not bad. I always liked the "What's an Essex bird and a jumbo jet got in common? Big cockpits."

Tonnes more mate!

And yeah, you're right...Women have the same thing with Heat and Closer and all the other stupid magazines only read by bored housewives or dosey cows on the bus who just have to know what Brad and Angelina are doing with that buttplug and baby seat in the picture they saw on telly.

All mass produced bullshit designed to sell.

Classic. *notes down joke*

Thing is all media is like that presently, it's all a dumbed-down derivative load of shite.

The reason it is more noticeable in FHM/Nuts/Heat et al, is that those magazines are catering to the lowest common denominator anyway.

Personally I blame Rupert Murdoch.

[ratfrink]

How on earth can you possibly think that a magazine that basically condones rape is okay because it's 'just meant for entertainment'? Whilst I do agree that most men will understand that the content of these magazines is bollocks, does that make it okay to publish?

I have a feeling that I'm probably not going to get much support from a website consisting mostly of horny 15 year old boys.

[psycho_8b]

Originally Posted by Winston_Smith

Classic. *notes down joke*

Thing is all media is like that presently, it's all a dumbed-down derivative load of shite.

The reason it is more noticeable in FHM/Nuts/Heat et al, is that those magazines are catering to the lowest common denominator anyway.

Personally I blame Rupert Murdoch.

That's what the media has always been about...Dumb it down for the average twat on the street and tell them they have to like it or be ostracised from their peers. I mean come on, when the fuck was Cliff Richard a good idea?!

Also, the main difference between an Essex bird and a washing machine is after you've dumped your load in a washing machine, it doesn't follow you round for days telling you it loves you.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

How on earth can you possibly think that a magazine that basically condones rape is okay because it's 'just meant for entertainment'? Whilst I do agree that most men will understand that the content of these magazines is bollocks, does that make it okay to publish?

I have a feeling that I'm probably not going to get much support from a website consisting mostly of horny 15 year old boys.

I don't think it's really condoning rape at all dude. It's saying a percentage of women have had a rape fantasy at some point. We've all had them right?
There's a difference between her having a rape fantasy, which she could share with a trusted sexual partner in hopes he will carry it out for her pleasure and actually getting raped by some big bastard with a sack full of STD's.

I like being whacked in the moosh while a girl rides my cock...Doesn't mean I'm gonna go up to the nearest bird and say "Gimme a slap darlin'!"

[ripley]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

I have a feeling that I'm probably not going to get much support from a website consisting mostly of horny 15 year old boys.

Oh, I agree with you. 98%.

I'm just not sure where to draw the line between distasteful and dangerous.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by psycho_8b

I don't think it's really condoning rape at all dude. It's saying a percentage of women have had a rape fantasy at some point. We've all had them right?

Yeah I understand that the statistic that '95% of women have had a rape fantasy' could well be true, but to put it literally next to a (completely fictitious) article that says 'women are capable of closing their vaginal opening if they don't want to have sex' is pretty abhorrent.

Furthermore, if it wasn't leaning toward the objectification of women, why didn't it say '95% of people have had a rape fantasy'. It didn't say anything about doing rape-roleplaying with their regular and trusted partner. It didn't continue to say 'but only 5% would actually carry out rape-roleplaying'.

If you combine that with the completely ridiculous and dangerous statement that women can physically stop a penis entering them, it is possible to infer from the text that '95% of women will enjoy rape'.

Even if people who would never rape someone or act badly towards women were to start believing all the shit that they put into magazines like this (and like you said, most people who read it aren't exactly the most informed people out there), even if they didn't act on it, it would just perpetuate the sexualisation of women, which, 'jokingly' or not, cannot be a good thing.

Like I said, if the same 'jokes' were made with racism, there would rightly be an outrage. I don't know how people can classify racist jokes as distasteful but just laugh off sexist jokes as lighthearted entertainment.

^ I'm not sure where the line between distateful and dangerous lies either, that's why I err on the side of safety.

[Winston_Smith]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

Yeah I understand that the statistic that '95% of women have had a rape fantasy' could well be true, but to put it literally next to a (completely fictitious) article that says 'women are capable of closing their vaginal opening if they don't want to have sex' is pretty abhorrent. .

That's not entirely fictitious, out of context and incorrectly put, indeed, but there is a psychological disorder that causes the vaginal muscles to contract, making penetration impossible.

I grant you, it is mainly in cases of extreme childhood neglect that this surfaces, but the syndrome does exist.

However, putting it in that context is certainly reprehensible, on that note, I heartily agree with you.

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

Yeah I've heard people say that before, they're like 'oh it's just a joke' well yeah, I get it. But you can't deny that it's sexist, offensive and perpetuates the idea of male dominance.

Women's interest magazines can perpetuate the idea of female dominance if they like.

Seriously though, would you want all those magazines to be gender-neutral and politically correct?

And should we outlaw any rape jokes out there?

[Nero]

Baaaaawww.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Agent 008

Women's interest magazines can perpetuate the idea of female dominance if they like.

They shouldn't, all sexism is wrong.

Originally Posted by Agent 008

Seriously though, would you want all those magazines to be gender-neutral and politically correct?

Um, yes.

Originally Posted by Agent 008

And should we outlaw any rape jokes out there?

Also yes.

Don't you understand that being sexist is as bad as being racist or ageist or classist?

[Nero]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

They shouldn't, all sexism is wrong.


Um, yes.


Also yes.

Don't you understand that being sexist is as bad as being racist or ageist or classist?

So are you a woman or just a nice guy?

[ratfrink]

Lol. I'm a straight bloke and I have a long-term girlfriend.

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

They shouldn't, all sexism is wrong.


Um, yes.


Also yes.

Don't you understand that being sexist is as bad as being racist or ageist or classist?

Jesus Christ. It's like the dark ages all over again! Take something natural, make it a deadly sin, and then make people feel ashamed of themselves and make them feel inadequate.

Sexism or racism or ageism or classism are NOT bad. It's ACTING on it - hurting people just because of their sex, race, age or background - that is bad.

Take a look at this. Men and women are NOT the same, in general. Same goes to people of different races - in general, they are different. People of different ages or backgrounds - they are all different, and have different strengths and weaknesses. BUT - it doesn't mean that you should judge and treat people based on their sex, race, age or background. Treat everyone based on their individual qualities - because a trend doesn't mean shit when it comes to an individual - let them realize their full potential, and do what makes them happy.

[ratfrink]

The problem here seems to be semantic. Take a look at a few definitions of 'sexism' and 'racism'.

I know that women are different to men. Acknowledging that is not bad. Like you said, negatively discriminating against someone because of their sex/race/religion whatever is wrong.

But that's what sexism is. Sexism is DEFINED as negative discrimination towards one sex, or regarding one sex as inferior or of less value.

So when I say 'these magazines are sexist' what I mean is NOT
'these magazines realise that women are different'
but
'these magazines say that women are inferior'.

If you actually read the content of these magazines, you absolutely cannot deny that they are either explicity or implicity sexist, as 'satire' or otherwise.

[ripley]

I think the whole "satire" thing is just bullshit, by the way. Seems like a poor attempt to pass off random misogyny and juvenile dribble as sophisticated culture-critique.

[ratfrink]

^ yeah exactly. Also I think that the writers clearly know that a lot of the readers probably aren't smart enough to disregard it as 'satire' especially when they put in false or out-of-context facts.

[smitty]

Originally Posted by ripley

The only thing that really grates my nerves is when guys read them in front of women. That happened a lot at my old job. We all had to live together for a couple of weeks at a time, so we were practically tripping over each other. But the magazines really bugged me. Girl sits next to you, put the magazine away. It's seriously not that hard.

you're not a chick but you're still a bitch.

[ripley]

Originally Posted by smitty

you have one hell of a sense of entitlement you fucking bitch. If you find the magazine offensive, don't sit next to him in the first place ay?

To be clear, I have a penis. And my comment concerned a work environment that I doubt you have any experience with, so your reaction is both a little hasty and completely ill-informed. I worked as a miner, we lived in a little camp in the middle of the desert, the workforce was predominantly male, and just about every damn guy sat around reading nude magazines. We all had to climb on a bus together, twice each day. We all had to wait for the bus in cramped areas, twice each day. Sometimes we just didn't have much choice where to sit. If you could get over yourself long enough to realize that I restricted my comments to a rather limited set of circumstances, you might have made a meaningful contribution to this thread. As it stands you just waffled offensively and ignorantly and ought to start another thread describing what the taste of your own foot is like.

[smitty]

wow. i honestly thought you were a chick? you sure sound like a whiny little bitch.

i work in a similar industry under similar conditions. the only women in this industry aren't to likely to be offended by mens magazines you fucking tool. the women i have worked with told about as many dirty jokes as most of the guys.

i actually agree with you and frink about this tho.

[JoePedo]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

Do these make anyone else's blood boil?

fapsmiley.jpg

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

I was reading Nuts

+1 for the gay porn mag.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

in the Sex section it said '95% of women have had a rape fantasy'.

Might actually be true.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

Just over the page it said 'women are capable of physically clamping their vagina shut if they don't want to have sex'.

Not quite as likely to be true.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

How on earth can anyone get away with publishing that

Easy. They have connections to power, and a printing press. You have neither.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

I immediately phoned them but didn't get through to anyone but the receptionist, and I wrote to them but they never responded.

You also have no way of replacing your absence of connections to power with anything else, it would seem.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

idea that women are the weaker sex.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

Just over the page it said 'women are capable of physically clamping their vagina shut if they don't want to have sex'.

lolwut?

Sounds like an impenetrably strong sex to me. Perhaps you mistakenly typed "the myth that women are weak" when you meant to type "the myth that rape victims were asking for it?"

Oops. Wierd mistake to make.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

ALL of these magazines increase sexualisation of women

This is a good thing.

(admittedly, I'm not going to be engaging in it, but it's still a good thing).

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

How can they even consider printing ideas that so blatantly feed the rape culture?

Unlike the sexualization of women, this is not a good thing.

lern2difference lol.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

It's not just the big lies that do this either, it's the little things dotted all around the magazines.

Standard. Did you think this was not a resourced media operation or some shit?

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

or those adverts that show a woman with a videogame controller attached to her.

::thinks for a minute::

Did she have a high-resolution screen? And if you were to reach the vagina for erotic purpouses, could you still play the game or would you have to put it down to get there?

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

These little hints perpetuate idea that men shoud be in sexual control and that it's okay to keep pestering women for sex if they say no.

Well, offering them candy is a courteous gesture!!

You haven't sourced the "keep pestering" bits, though.

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

What do you lot think about these magazines?

They're sure an interesting as hell way to see what the government and party powerholders truly value.

As for a broader picture, while you left a bunch of things completely unfounded and unestablished, and mixed up your words sometimes while tossing around buzzwords, you've still managed to establish that this particular issue appears to be contrary to my interests. OTOH, I haven't had any interest in the UK for a few years now, and don't really know if I give a shit about that cesspool enough to reestablish my former operational contacts...

Hmm.

Well... I'll think if I want to run pedo ops pedo-style in your area. I think you threw down enough information in this thread to track everything, including cyberstalking you or anything else, so I might just trace their organization and think about shit. No guarantees, though. Like I said, I gave up bothering with the running of cells in your area a couple years ago....

In the meantime, please draw artistic renditions of scenes from lewis carrol's varied literary publications in chalk at random instances around your city in a campaign of artistic terrorism activities, m'kay?

Thanks.

[ripley]

Originally Posted by smitty

wow. i honestly thought you were a chick? you sure sound like a whiny little bitch.

i work in a similar industry under similar conditions. the only women in this industry aren't to likely to be offended by mens magazines you fucking tool. the women i have worked with told about as many dirty jokes as most of the guys.

i actually agree with you and frink about this tho.

I was suggesting that as a matter of simple courtesy, they should just put the damn thing away. I know for a fact that it makes some women uncomfortable, and I think it's the men who have a sense of entitlement in that regard. Either that, or they are simply incapable of telling when someone is bothered by their smutty reading material. People can read what they like, write what they like, think what they like, go for it, I don't care. But empathy is a virtue.

(And yes, I am a whiny little bitch. It's just one of my many character flaws.)

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

Don't you understand that being sexist is as bad as being racist or ageist or classist?

God, you're such a bitch, OP. Also, as Zok always says, if You think that this forum is filled with horny 15 year olds then what the fuck are you doing here?

Racism, sexism and much more stuff is funny and pretty true. I'm a gentleman, open doors for my miss (or for other ladies) and go the whole nine yards most of the time. This does not change the fact that we live in a womanized society - how come armed forces are mostly man? how come women have easier physical tests to pass (go women paramedics!)? how come women, despite living about 5-10 years longer on average, are able to retire earlier? Search for this topic in Inhumane Condition, should still be there.

Sexism didn't magically appear from the blue sky - women are whores? Well, guess that most of them are! Men are bastards? Pretty much yes, can't argue here. Black people are thieves? Well, the majority of them do live in poor neighborhood and are forced to steal one way or another.

Get the fuck used to it. People will always dislike/hate other people. There will always be crude sexual or racist jokes circulating around.

Also:

Originally Posted by smitty

you're not a chick but you're still a bitch.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by ripley

I was suggesting that as a matter of simple courtesy
(And yes, I am a whiny little bitch. It's just one of my many character flaws.)

Haha, women fucked their courtesy when they demanded, and received, their rights. Equal is equal man, don't expect men do be all knight-and-Zorro for women since women bitched so much about equality.

This is equality. They got what they wanted, but they thought they could only get the perks, not the additional work. Doesn't work that way.

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Racism, sexism and much more stuff is funny and pretty true.:

The funny thing is that had women waited with feminism for a bit longer, technology would've taken all the effort out of housework.

[Mr.Happy]

Have you ever read a women's magazine? They're every bit as misandrous as lads' mags are misogynous. Maybe in a different way, but they do perpetuate the notion that men are selfish assholes without an empathic bone in their body (alternating that with tips on how to get a man). It's not uncommon to read things like "men are incapable of empathy or sensitivity on the same level as a woman", or to see advice on how to 'fix' your partner.

At the end of the day, it sells. The people who manage men's mags are much smarter than their average reader, and they know exactly how to get them to part with their £1.50. I don't see much wrong with what they're doing; some of it is perfectly fine (I personally believe that men should generally be in control sexually and I'm far from sexist), some of it is misinformation, a lot of it is a bit demeaning towards women but practically all of it is harmless. The target audience for those magazines generally holds very similar opinions to those it puts forward; they're not hugely shaped by the content, just enjoying it because it's similar to how they think. There are bigger influences on men's minds than Nuts or Loaded.

And how many Essex girls does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None. Essex girls only screw in the back of Ford Cortinas.

[ripley]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Haha, women fucked their courtesy when they demanded, and received, their rights. Equal is equal man, don't expect men do be all knight-and-Zorro for women since women bitched so much about equality.

This is equality. They got what they wanted, but they thought they could only get the perks, not the additional work. Doesn't work that way.

Courtesy is something I'd extend to everyone. I only singled out women in this case, because that happens to be the subject of the OP. If you think any of what I've said is about treating women with greater respect than men, then you've lost the plot completely. The truth is, I hold doors open for guys as well. This is not about knight-and-Zorro chivalry, or any other caricature you'd like to mock.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Mr.Happy

Have you ever read a women's magazine? They're every bit as misandrous as lads' mags are misogynous. Maybe in a different way, but they do perpetuate the notion that men are selfish assholes without an empathic bone in their body (alternating that with tips on how to get a man). It's not uncommon to read things like "men are incapable of empathy or sensitivity on the same level as a woman", or to see advice on how to 'fix' your partner.

At the end of the day, it sells. The people who manage men's mags are much smarter than their average reader, and they know exactly how to get them to part with their £1.50. I don't see much wrong with what they're doing; some of it is perfectly fine (I personally believe that men should generally be in control sexually and I'm far from sexist), some of it is misinformation, a lot of it is a bit demeaning towards women but practically all of it is harmless. The target audience for those magazines generally holds very similar opinions to those it puts forward; they're not hugely shaped by the content, just enjoying it because it's similar to how they think. There are bigger influences on men's minds than Nuts or Loaded.

And how many Essex girls does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None. Essex girls only screw in the back of Ford Cortinas.

To whoever said they supported sexualisation of women, I don't think you understand what I mean - I'm referring to the objectification of women into purely sexual (specifically submissively sexual) objects.

Yes, some women's magazines are like that. Does that make it any better? No. The fact that there are bigger influences on men's minds than Nuts doesn't make it acceptable either (don't get me started on pornography) because it's still a contributor to the problem.

And yes, the content IS shaped by the readership, but that doesn't force the writers to a) perpetuate sexist ideas and b) actually inflame the problem by making up or mis-using facts, or quoting out of context.

Lol at Ford Cortinas. I have always wanted a MK2 or MK3, I went to see a MK2 2-door with a Rover V8 fitted and it was awesome.

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by frinkmakesyouthink

To whoever said they supported sexualisation of women, I don't think you understand what I mean - I'm referring to the objectification of women into purely sexual (specifically submissively sexual) objects.

But women in general ARE submissive sexual objects. As much as men in general are dominating sexual objects. I don't see anything wrong about human sexuality.

[ripley]

Originally Posted by Agent 008

But women in general ARE submissive sexual objects. As much as men in general are dominating sexual objects.

Care to elaborate? It's not clear to me what gives you this impression.

[ratfrink]

Originally Posted by Agent 008

But women in general ARE submissive sexual objects. As much as men in general are dominating sexual objects. I don't see anything wrong about human sexuality.

No, you don't understand. Sexualisation and sexuality are different things, if you read my earlier posts I have pointed this out.

What you mean is 'men normally go on top', which might well be true and it's not a problem.

What the magazines say is 'women are there to be shagged and little else'. That's what I mean when I talk about sexualisation.

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by ripley

Care to elaborate? It's not clear to me what gives you this impression.

Men like to penetrate and women like to be penetrated. Men want to "take" and girls want to be "taken". Most girls want the men they like to "take the initiative", so that they can be "swept away by the moment".

What exactly do you want me to elaborate on?