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Old 09-06-2012, 07:42 PM
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Default Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Is it possible to disable ALL alarms at a business without any notifications to the owner, police, or alarm system office? Cutting phone lines is easy, but what about the cellular backup? Any help? So that once you buglarize a place, you can have more time inside without police showing up.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

I think the real question is... Is it possible to disable alarm WHILE notifying someone?

Cuz you know, disabling alarms would be pointless if someone was notified.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Several years ago I became fascinated with the history of safe and vault construction (for academic reasons, of course).* This led me briefly into a study of commercial alarm systems.* It turns out that most residential alarms are just smoke and mirrors.* They remain effective because they piggyback off the reputation of well-designed commercial systems.* But in reality, commercial and residential alarms are two different animals.

First, the major weakness of residential alarm systems:

(1).* Many of the most popular systems are easily defeated, even by burglars without half a brain.* The popular lower end systems put the telephone dialer into the control panel.* They are useless.* To reduce call center traffic, ADT (for example) programs an additional delay into the alarm panel even after the 30-45 sec "time limit" is up.* Adding in time to establish a telephone connection, it can take almost two full minutes to dial in an alarm, and during this time a burglar need only rip the beeping control panel off of the wall to prevent the alarm from being sent.* Knowledge of this weakess has travelled fast in the state prison systems -- not so fast among oblivious homeowners.

(2). Almost no home alarm system presents a serious obstacle to anybody with half a brain.* Commercial alarm systems use a dedicated, electronically supervised telephone line to communicate with the alarm center.* If the phone line is cut, an alarm is immediately registered.

By contrast, a home alarm system becomes useless once the telephone wires are cut.* Some alarm systems have cellular backups, but cellular signal jammers can be purchased for just a few hundred bucks.

An intelligent burglar would bring a cell jammer on every job: not only will the jammer defeat any alarm system's cellular backup, but has the added bonus of preventing an undetected occupant with a cell phone from raising the alarm.* Considering how many people no longer have a landline, it could also delay nosey neighbors from making phone calls.

By employing the two simple steps of (a) cutting the phone wire, and (b) carrying a cell phone signal jammer, a burglar can defeat the remote signalling capacity of 100% of residential-class alarm systems, leaving nothing but the local alarm (i.e., the exterior bell or siren, in the unusual event that one has actually been installed).

My take: I don't have any alarm system myself, but if I ever saw the need to install one, I'd see a need to do it right.* Rather than satisfying yourself with platitudes* ("most burglars are amateurs . . . smash and grab . . . etc, etc."), consider the kind of professional cat burglar that operated in the United States up through the 1950's, the kind which inevitably re-appear whenever the economy deteriorates far enough that skilled people (like former alarm system technicians) are out on the street.* If the next 20 years will be unlike the last 20, then you must consider the class of burglar that may be common in the future.*

(1) The telephone lines must be guarded.* If the homeowner doesn't want to pay for a dedicated alarm line, then the telephone wires that will be used to transmit the alarm will preferably be underground.* At the very least, the telephone wires should remain internal to the house until they reach the roofline.* Without this basic precaution, a wire cutter and an inexpensive cell jammer are all that is needed to defeat the system.

(2) The local alarm (bell or siren) is often easily disconnected, where one has been installed at all.* It should be in an inaccessible location.* After the phone wires are cut (because the homeowner didn't follow step #1, above), the exterior bell is the only thing left.* If it can be quickly disconnected, or its power cut, then it's worthless.

(3) The touch panels must be physically separate from the control box containing the dialer.* The dialer box should be in a hidden location, preferably locked inside a stout sheet-metal cabinet with a metal wire conduit.* This will prevent a burglar from destroying the dialer assembly before it can signal the alarm.

(4) More PIR motion detector coverage is needed than is customarily installed in homes.* Installing motion detectors is time consuming for the alarm company, so they tend to instead recommend a surplus of equipment like door and window contact sensors which have a high profit margin but much less practical utility.* Look to commerical installations as models:* PIR (passive infrared) motion detector coverage isn't necessarily needed in every inch of every room, but there should be ample coverage, with double coverage of "key" areas like a hallway through which a burglar must pass.* There should always be PIR coverage in the basement if there is a bulkhead.

If you must choose a way to economize, then it might be better to forego the window and door contacts altogether (which are pure gravy to the alarm system installer, more easily defeated, and usually redundant in any case), and instead invest in truly adequate motion detector coverage for all interior spaces (possibly with separate upstairs and downstairs zones, for when you're at home), maybe a floor pressure sensor, and spend the money for an overall higher quality system.

(5) False residential burglar alarms are very common, and score low on the priority list of urban police departments.* If you think that a burglar alarm activation will bring a battallion of police racing to your house, think again!* On a busy night, an unconfirmed burglar alarm may bring no police response at all.* Take a minute, and you'll quickly see the reasons why such alarms are kicked to the bottom of the priority heap.

(a) Consider a service that will dispatch a private armed guard to the premises.* Often available in large urban areas, such plans usually call for a guard to arrive within 45 min.* The sad thing is that they'll often beat the police department.

(b) Consider installing the system in such a way that the monitoring station will be able to tell if more than one sensor has been activated.* Single PIR activation?* Possibly a false alarm.* A window break sensor activation followed by the actication of two successive motion detectors in different parts of the house?* Definitely not a false alarm.* This more detailed information can be conveyed both to you (by cell phone) and to the police department, and can have an effect on response time.

(6) Investigate the monitoring stations used by your alarm company, as much as possible.* Many large alarm companies, to increase profits, skimp badly on staffing.* This increases the number of minutes until the local police department is notified.* Furthermore, a good monitoring station will follow up with the local police dispatcher (see # 5, above).

(7) Make sure that high quality equipment is used.* There is a big difference between a cheap sensor, and a high quality one.* You get what you pay for.

(8)* Make a conscious decision between a true silent alarm system, and an audible alarm.* Many factors can go into this decision, but most residential alarms are a bad half-breed: they make enough noise to alert the burglar to the fact that the house is alarmed, but not enough noise to alert the neighbors.* If you want a silent alarm, then you should make sure that a burglar is completely oblivious to the fact that they have been detected, including putting the touch panels out of plain sight.* If you want an audible alarm, then be sure to install a loud siren or bell -- that way the alarm will still be of some use, even after phone lines have been cut.

(9) Finally, don't rely on the alarm system.* It is a lesson that commercial institutions learned long ago:*burglaries are not random.* Even in a "random" burglary there are usually reasons why one house looked more attractive than another.

Signage is a deterrent. * But don't use a sign that reveals the real name of the alarm company.* As Tom observed, if you have the honor of ever attracting a professional burglar, such a sign immediately tells what type equipment you are using, and how to defeat it.

Conclusion:* Real professional home burglary has gone out of fashion.* Same with professional safebreaking.* The only people who rob the average house these days are junkies desperate for a few bucks.* Most home burglar alarms today are basically toys, with vital weaknesses (like No's 1, 2, and 3, above) left unaddressed.*

But there will again come a day when professional burglary pays, as it did in the 30's, 40's, and 50's.* When that time comes, if you do happen to see the need for a burglar alarm, then it might as well be a real deterrent.
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by whocares View Post
I think the real question is... Is it possible to disable alarm WHILE notifying someone?

Cuz you know, disabling alarms would be pointless if someone was notified.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Read guide on Hamburglary: http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=234268
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:05 PM
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Thumbs Up Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

I think it's possible but you'd have to kill the power. And even if you do, there's usually a backup power supply inside the building.

I dunno, maybe try detonating a nuclear weapon in the thermosphere. The EMP will shut off all electronic equipment in a thousand kilometer radius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares View Post
I think the real question is... Is it possible to disable alarm WHILE notifying someone?

Cuz you know, disabling alarms would be pointless if someone was notified.
Wtf are you talking about you moron? The title is right.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

[quote=Fox Paws;3770090]I think it's possible but you'd have to kill the power. And even if you do, there's usually a backup power supply inside the building.

I dunno, maybe try detonating a nuclear weapon in the thermosphere. The EMP will shut off all electronic equipment in a thousand kilometer radius.

Yeah that's what I was talking about. I wonder if it's possible to disable ALL that. I do know there is something that removes ALL power from the whole plaza or shopping center, could be what you're talking about. I just have to find out what and where it is.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

you're both idiots.

lol @ emp
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

You can't even read properly

And I don't believe there's someone stupid enough to not realize I was joking about the EMP
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Yea, the emp bit was the bit which made sense.

I think the op would struggle more with detonating a nuke in the thermosphere.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by Fox Paws View Post
You can't even read properly

And I don't believe there's someone stupid enough to not realize I was joking about the EMP
I wasn't talking about the EMP but I used to work at a lil store for my mom, and one time, the power was knocked out from the generator that supplied power for the whole shopping center, so the power for the whole center was out, except big Sweetbay, who had some kind of backup power supply. That's what I was talking about.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?







This thread...
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

I was talking to whocares...
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2012, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Just enter the alarm code to deactivate it once you enter the building...? Holy shit, that was easy.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iswim View Post
Is it possible to disable ALL alarms at a business without any notifications to the owner, police, or alarm system office? Cutting phone lines is easy, but what about the cellular backup? Any help? So that once you buglarize a place, you can have more time inside without police showing up.
Nope most systems will send a comm fail signal to the monitoring company if the phone line get's cut and switches over to cell back up
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:35 PM
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Thumbs Up Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Nope most systems will send a comm fail signal to the monitoring company if the phone line get's cut and switches over to cell back up
Did you not read the whole post or something?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by Fox Paws View Post
Did you not read the whole post or something?
But like he said in the first half of his sentence reply, the company also gets notified if communication is lost.

----

It is still my opinion that the EASIEST FUCKING WAY is to just get the code and enter it. Honestly, doing that isn't very hard.

Take the building I work in for an example, I know about 3 different people's security codes because they will openly talk about them in the middle of our reception area (which, it stands to reason, means that a nonemployee could easily hear).

While in other companies people aren't as fucking retarded when it comes to security, there are still infinite possibilities for as to how you can get that code.
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by ThunderDownUnder View Post
But like he said in the first half of his sentence reply, the company also gets notified if communication is lost.

----

It is still my opinion that the EASIEST FUCKING WAY is to just get the code and enter it. Honestly, doing that isn't very hard.

Take the building I work in for an example, I know about 3 different people's security codes because they will openly talk about them in the middle of our reception area (which, it stands to reason, means that a nonemployee could easily hear).

While in other companies people aren't as fucking retarded when it comes to security, there are still infinite possibilities for as to how you can get that code.
Ya see, getting in the business would still activate the alarm, and it would go off for those few seconds that it takes you to activate the code, which would mean the alarm DOES get notified AND will actually call to make sure everything is ok.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by iswim View Post
Ya see, getting in the business would still activate the alarm, and it would go off for those few seconds that it takes you to activate the code, which would mean the alarm DOES get notified AND will actually call to make sure everything is ok.
So you're trying to tell me that a business would use an alarm which gives you no time to enter the code upon entering the building each and every day?

Do you realise how much of an inconvenience this type of system would be, especially because each and every time an alarm goes off there is a long list of people from an organisation that get called to see if everything is OK, along with a security person sent out to make sure everything is OK?

What you just said sounds completely unrealistic. Upon entering the premises, there would be a delay (20 seconds or so is standard, I believe?) for you to get from the door to the alarm panel, and enter the code.

EDIT: I feel I should add that the same sort of delay applies when you are turning ON the alarm, so people can get the fuck out of the building.

Click, click, boom.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Criminal View Post
Several years ago I became fascinated with the history of safe and vault construction (for academic reasons, of course).* This led me briefly into a study of commercial alarm systems.* It turns out that most residential alarms are just smoke and mirrors.* They remain effective because they piggyback off the reputation of well-designed commercial systems.* But in reality, commercial and residential alarms are two different animals.

First, the major weakness of residential alarm systems:

(1).* Many of the most popular systems are easily defeated, even by burglars without half a brain.* The popular lower end systems put the telephone dialer into the control panel.* They are useless.* To reduce call center traffic, ADT (for example) programs an additional delay into the alarm panel even after the 30-45 sec "time limit" is up.* Adding in time to establish a telephone connection, it can take almost two full minutes to dial in an alarm, and during this time a burglar need only rip the beeping control panel off of the wall to prevent the alarm from being sent.* Knowledge of this weakess has travelled fast in the state prison systems -- not so fast among oblivious homeowners.

(2). Almost no home alarm system presents a serious obstacle to anybody with half a brain.* Commercial alarm systems use a dedicated, electronically supervised telephone line to communicate with the alarm center.* If the phone line is cut, an alarm is immediately registered.

By contrast, a home alarm system becomes useless once the telephone wires are cut.* Some alarm systems have cellular backups, but cellular signal jammers can be purchased for just a few hundred bucks.

An intelligent burglar would bring a cell jammer on every job: not only will the jammer defeat any alarm system's cellular backup, but has the added bonus of preventing an undetected occupant with a cell phone from raising the alarm.* Considering how many people no longer have a landline, it could also delay nosey neighbors from making phone calls.

By employing the two simple steps of (a) cutting the phone wire, and (b) carrying a cell phone signal jammer, a burglar can defeat the remote signalling capacity of 100% of residential-class alarm systems, leaving nothing but the local alarm (i.e., the exterior bell or siren, in the unusual event that one has actually been installed).

My take: I don't have any alarm system myself, but if I ever saw the need to install one, I'd see a need to do it right.* Rather than satisfying yourself with platitudes* ("most burglars are amateurs . . . smash and grab . . . etc, etc."), consider the kind of professional cat burglar that operated in the United States up through the 1950's, the kind which inevitably re-appear whenever the economy deteriorates far enough that skilled people (like former alarm system technicians) are out on the street.* If the next 20 years will be unlike the last 20, then you must consider the class of burglar that may be common in the future.*

(1) The telephone lines must be guarded.* If the homeowner doesn't want to pay for a dedicated alarm line, then the telephone wires that will be used to transmit the alarm will preferably be underground.* At the very least, the telephone wires should remain internal to the house until they reach the roofline.* Without this basic precaution, a wire cutter and an inexpensive cell jammer are all that is needed to defeat the system.

(2) The local alarm (bell or siren) is often easily disconnected, where one has been installed at all.* It should be in an inaccessible location.* After the phone wires are cut (because the homeowner didn't follow step #1, above), the exterior bell is the only thing left.* If it can be quickly disconnected, or its power cut, then it's worthless.

(3) The touch panels must be physically separate from the control box containing the dialer.* The dialer box should be in a hidden location, preferably locked inside a stout sheet-metal cabinet with a metal wire conduit.* This will prevent a burglar from destroying the dialer assembly before it can signal the alarm.

(4) More PIR motion detector coverage is needed than is customarily installed in homes.* Installing motion detectors is time consuming for the alarm company, so they tend to instead recommend a surplus of equipment like door and window contact sensors which have a high profit margin but much less practical utility.* Look to commerical installations as models:* PIR (passive infrared) motion detector coverage isn't necessarily needed in every inch of every room, but there should be ample coverage, with double coverage of "key" areas like a hallway through which a burglar must pass.* There should always be PIR coverage in the basement if there is a bulkhead.

If you must choose a way to economize, then it might be better to forego the window and door contacts altogether (which are pure gravy to the alarm system installer, more easily defeated, and usually redundant in any case), and instead invest in truly adequate motion detector coverage for all interior spaces (possibly with separate upstairs and downstairs zones, for when you're at home), maybe a floor pressure sensor, and spend the money for an overall higher quality system.

(5) False residential burglar alarms are very common, and score low on the priority list of urban police departments.* If you think that a burglar alarm activation will bring a battallion of police racing to your house, think again!* On a busy night, an unconfirmed burglar alarm may bring no police response at all.* Take a minute, and you'll quickly see the reasons why such alarms are kicked to the bottom of the priority heap.

(a) Consider a service that will dispatch a private armed guard to the premises.* Often available in large urban areas, such plans usually call for a guard to arrive within 45 min.* The sad thing is that they'll often beat the police department.

(b) Consider installing the system in such a way that the monitoring station will be able to tell if more than one sensor has been activated.* Single PIR activation?* Possibly a false alarm.* A window break sensor activation followed by the actication of two successive motion detectors in different parts of the house?* Definitely not a false alarm.* This more detailed information can be conveyed both to you (by cell phone) and to the police department, and can have an effect on response time.

(6) Investigate the monitoring stations used by your alarm company, as much as possible.* Many large alarm companies, to increase profits, skimp badly on staffing.* This increases the number of minutes until the local police department is notified.* Furthermore, a good monitoring station will follow up with the local police dispatcher (see # 5, above).

(7) Make sure that high quality equipment is used.* There is a big difference between a cheap sensor, and a high quality one.* You get what you pay for.

(8)* Make a conscious decision between a true silent alarm system, and an audible alarm.* Many factors can go into this decision, but most residential alarms are a bad half-breed: they make enough noise to alert the burglar to the fact that the house is alarmed, but not enough noise to alert the neighbors.* If you want a silent alarm, then you should make sure that a burglar is completely oblivious to the fact that they have been detected, including putting the touch panels out of plain sight.* If you want an audible alarm, then be sure to install a loud siren or bell -- that way the alarm will still be of some use, even after phone lines have been cut.

(9) Finally, don't rely on the alarm system.* It is a lesson that commercial institutions learned long ago:*burglaries are not random.* Even in a "random" burglary there are usually reasons why one house looked more attractive than another.

Signage is a deterrent. * But don't use a sign that reveals the real name of the alarm company.* As Tom observed, if you have the honor of ever attracting a professional burglar, such a sign immediately tells what type equipment you are using, and how to defeat it.

Conclusion:* Real professional home burglary has gone out of fashion.* Same with professional safebreaking.* The only people who rob the average house these days are junkies desperate for a few bucks.* Most home burglar alarms today are basically toys, with vital weaknesses (like No's 1, 2, and 3, above) left unaddressed.*

But there will again come a day when professional burglary pays, as it did in the 30's, 40's, and 50's.* When that time comes, if you do happen to see the need for a burglar alarm, then it might as well be a real deterrent.
Good read but you kinda changed the topic to HOME burglary. This topic is about commercial burglary, but that did give some very good info. Thanks!
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by ThunderDownUnder View Post
So you're trying to tell me that a business would use an alarm which gives you no time to enter the code upon entering the building each and every day?

Do you realise how much of an inconvenience this type of system would be, especially because each and every time an alarm goes off there is a long list of people from an organisation that get called to see if everything is OK, along with a security person sent out to make sure everything is OK?

What you just said sounds completely unrealistic. Upon entering the premises, there would be a delay (20 seconds or so is standard, I believe?) for you to get from the door to the alarm panel, and enter the code.

EDIT: I feel I should add that the same sort of delay applies when you are turning ON the alarm, so people can get the fuck out of the building.

Click, click, boom.
If you open the store with a key, then you have 30 seconds to put the code in but I doubt many burglars have keys to the fuckin business they're burglarizing dude.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Place a hidden camera aimed at the keypad. Was that so hard?
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Place a hidden camera aimed at the keypad. Was that so hard?
How the hell you plan on getting a camera in there?
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by iswim View Post
If you open the store with a key, then you have 30 seconds to put the code in but I doubt many burglars have keys to the fuckin business they're burglarizing dude.
If you are thinking of something as sophisticated as disarming the alarm, I think you can open a simple LOCK, bro. Holy shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iswim View Post
How the hell you plan on getting a camera in there?
Go in while the business is open...? There are plenty of mini cameras that are either very small, or are disguised as everyday objects, that you could easily place at your discretion.

You are acting like this operation is 'rocket science meets retard science'....Instead, you should be looking at simple solutions to a simple problem.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

Anything's possible with the right skill set. Including this.

It would take a bit of work, but it can be done.
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  #26  
Old 09-07-2012, 04:16 AM
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whocares whocares is offline
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by iswim View Post
How the hell you plan on getting a camera in there?
Find a way, you dumbass. Do we really have to hold your hands while there too?
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  #27  
Old 09-08-2012, 12:01 AM
iswim iswim is offline
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by whocares View Post
Place a hidden camera aimed at the keypad. Was that so hard?
The alarm box is in the back of the room, which is occupied by employees at some places.
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2012, 03:07 PM
MISTERPINK317 MISTERPINK317 is offline
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

I've seen these methods on masterminds tv show

You need to do an end run around this problem.

Usually it involves obtaining the code either through social engineering or covert recording (brickhousesecurity.com had many devices that will help with the latter).

The second method is render the alarm useless by setting it off, concealing yourself till police arrive and realize "everything is cool just a false alarm". then enter at will.

third method: dont care use test runs to determine police run speed then get in and out quicker than they can arrive...
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  #29  
Old 09-08-2012, 03:41 PM
iswim iswim is offline
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Default Re: Is it possible to disable alarm WITHOUT notifying anyone?

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Originally Posted by MISTERPINK317 View Post
I've seen these methods on masterminds tv show

You need to do an end run around this problem.

Usually it involves obtaining the code either through social engineering or covert recording (brickhousesecurity.com had many devices that will help with the latter).

The second method is render the alarm useless by setting it off, concealing yourself till police arrive and realize "everything is cool just a false alarm". then enter at will.

third method: dont care use test runs to determine police run speed then get in and out quicker than they can arrive...
Hell yeah I was aware of those. I have seen a lot of the Masterminds episodes, and have seen those there, but good post thoe. This has been a good thread, let's keep it alive.
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