Everything greyfox believes in is wrong (aka how to reach enlightenment)

[Blunderfail]

Of course, I can't tell you how to reach enlightenment on a forum post. Even in real life, it would be near impossible. It's all up to you. I will, however, leave you with some notes I'm going to type, from the spilling of my brain. It might be a little jumbled, but I just want what I'm thinking about the situation, to be put into text, without having to think of "smart" ways of saying it. You know?

For those who believe in a descriptive God - ie the Hindu God, the Christian God, any of those. Ie: Agnostics, this won't really apply to you. Just get it out of your head. When I was a Christian, I hated people telling me this. "There's no God! Waaa waaa waaa. Your religion is wrong!" I hated to hear it. I knew there was a God. So many smart/cool/happy people believed in my God. If I was wrong, THEY couldn't be. Because those people were great.

Well... ha. It's not like I'm here to convince you God doesn't exist. But... please... if it means ANYTHING at all, I'm 101% sure he doesn't. You have to reach this decision yourself, if you're a Christian, but for those who aren't sure - just for a while, can you tell yourself there ISN'T a God? It'll help achieving this so called "enlightenment". Thanks.

Now, there's no God, right? You're alone in this world. There's nobody up there to help you. When you die, that's it. There's blackness. So... nothing matters. Ha, you know when you go onto a forum, like this one, or 4chan, or whatever, and you see people aruging about pointless things? What's the point? Nothing matters. There's no God... so who cares?

If you just... I want to say "believe", but for me it's "know". So if you just KNOW you're alone in this world, you can reach "enlightenment" in a flash.

It's so so hard for me to explain what I'm thinking. I can't do it - I give up. I guess I'll just leave you all with this:

You can't reach enlightenment believing in a God, or any of that spiritual mumbjo jumbo. That just leaves you... wrong. To reach enlightenment you have to take what's around you. Otherwise, deep down, you're lying to yourself. And that isn't enlightenment. It's subconscious denial.

Anyone agree? Or want to add to this? Ha, I'm going to be flamed, since all I do is troll and make comics stuff. Oh well... Guess in the long run it doesn't matter.

[DJ Meaty Cheeks]

Thanks for something/nothing?

[DoktorSardonic]

What's funniest of all, Enter, is that you wrote all those words and failed to mention Greyfox a single time. LOL. Ha. LOL.

Anyway, have you read this little book by George H. Smith? You might enjoy it. You can grab it from the eDonkey network if you don't mind stealing, and then reading a PDF off the harsh glare of your monitor.

[Cult Leader]

Greyfox pisses me off. He deletes my posts when I am critical of him.

His whole god thing is stupid as fuck. I don't know why he posts here as he gets mostly flames and no one really buys into his shit.

He seems like a jackass to me. I mean in some posts he can come across as a good guy, but his actions seem to indicate something else entirely.

He even said that he believed certain members were "evil". He said this about JFLC. Like come on, at most I would call JFLC a troll or some shit, but to call him "evil". It shows a real lack of intelligence imo.

[Rizzo in a box]

kidnapp the sandy klaws...

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by DoktorSardonic

What's funniest of all, Enter, is that you wrote all those words and failed to mention Greyfox a single time. LOL. Ha. LOL.

Anyway, have you read this little book by George H. Smith? You might enjoy it. You can grab it from the eDonkey network if you don't mind stealing, and then reading a PDF off the harsh glare of your monitor.

Is it an official book? Like, could I find it at a bookstore? I'll buy it at the bookstore tomorrow.

Ha, yeah, @ the greyfox thing. When I thought about it, I didn't really want to bash his beliefs. I'd sound like a douche, but it was an attractive title. But if I had to mention him now... I just find it really sad that he believes in all that stuff. There's no proof for it... I can easily be tolerant of his beliefs, but he'll never reach true enlightenment from believing in all that stuff. Whoa, holy crap. The room just shook. I've never felt that before. That was weird. O_O I feel crazy... is this a sign? As soon as I typed "he'll never reach true enlightenment from believing in all that stuff" I started shaking - like my head was spinning. Errr... uh... :|

[Idiosyncrasy]

Existentialism at its best.

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by Cult Leader

Greyfox pisses me off. He deletes my posts when I am critical of him.

His whole god thing is stupid as fuck. I don't know why he posts here as he gets mostly flames and no one really buys into his shit.

He seems like a jackass to me. I mean in some posts he can come across as a good guy, but his actions seem to indicate something else entirely.

He even said that he believed certain members were "evil". He said this about JFLC. Like come on, at most I would call JFLC a troll or some shit, but to call him "evil". It shows a real lack of intelligence imo.

Yeah. Like, what I'm feeling right now, I don't even want to make fun of anyone. I'm sure what I'm feeling isn't "enlightenment" but I do feel extremely odd. I even sent a PM to toothlessjoe saying he wasn't ugly.

Like... it's so hard to explain what I'm feeling, but if greyfox is making fun of people, calling them evil, etc after 61 years, and wants to reach enlightenment, well... I don't really think it's working. I've seen him make fun of people here too.

[sexualjesus]

i slighlty see what your saying blunder, its difficult to describe, you have to acccept everything, to reach enlightenment, as long as your only at the top end knowing that theres a god you cant really fully believe that theres a god, as you yourself know that theres a doubt, very deep shit.

one day we need to smoke a peice togethor my man, untill that day your going to have to tell me what this has to do with greyfox though lol

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by Idiosyncrasy

Existentialism at its best.

I'm not book smart. Don't know what that means, but I'm just going to assume you're making fun of me. So can you explain please...

[sexualjesus]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Like... it's so hard to explain what I'm feeling, but if greyfox is making fun of people, calling them evil, etc after 61 years, and wants to reach enlightenment, well... I don't really think it's working. I've seen him make fun of people here too.

lol sorry about my post, you post fast, ive missed out on the action recently thats been goin on in metaphysical so whats been happening with greyfox, the only time ive had huge contact with him is when i disagreed with him on some post and he sanctioned me for a different reason, unrelated of course and i did deserve it

[DoktorSardonic]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Is it an official book? Like, could I find it at a bookstore? I'll buy it at the bookstore tomorrow.

Oh it's quite official, printed on paper and everything. I don't know how popular it is anymore, but it's a classic book, probably the classic defense of (strong) atheism. I was pretty agnostic before I read it, but afterwards I felt there was, y'know, actual proof that God doesn't exist. Really nice book, worth the money, honest to goodness.

[Idiosyncrasy]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

I'm not book smart. Don't know what that means, but I'm just going to assume you're making fun of me. So can you explain please...

I wasn't making fun of you. That was just the closest philosophy I could think of to matching your description.

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/existentialism.htm

[Cult Leader]

Yeah Greyfox's beliefs don't reach me. I sort of personally hate the concept of a belief, if something is true for you then it is true for you. Forcing yourself into certain beliefs in order to achieve a result (the Secret) is absolutely retarded IMO.


Who knows though.. Maybe Greyfox is really getting something out of his crap. To each his own. One thing he needs to realize is that the majority of people here do not buy into that crap and he needs to get off his fucking pedestal.

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by Idiosyncrasy

I wasn't making fun of you. That was just the closest philosophy I could think of to matching your description.

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/existentialism.htm

Oh okay. Hmm, not sure I'm really what that describes. I'm not exactly searching for anything. We'll never find an answer. I'm just going to make each decision count from now on. Even simple things, like if I should shave, what to wear in the morning, etc.

Something that has always bothered me is not getting married and having kids. I don't even really want to, but society has made it that we should do this. I've felt as though if I don't get married, I'll wake up one day in my 70s and regret it.

But today... I think differently. As long as I live my life to the best I can, it doesn't matter if I don't get married. I think that has something to do with "enlightenment".

Another thing - I've always dreaded having sex. I've been a Christian all my life, and had the mindset to wait until marriage. My ex girlfriend keeps telling me how wrong it is for me to have sex outside of marriage, and that I'm being stupid for even considering it. Now... well, I don't care anymore. If I want to have sex - who cares? She's the one who's crazy. Sigh. Do I sound crazy? I do, don't I?

Originally Posted by sexualjesus

lol sorry about my post, you post fast, ive missed out on the action recently thats been goin on in metaphysical so whats been happening with greyfox, the only time ive had huge contact with him is when i disagreed with him on some post and he sanctioned me for a different reason, unrelated of course and i did deserve it

He's weird. He's going to post in this thread and say something that'll sound good, and make us all think he's not in the wrong. But then he'll post something completely different in another thread. I think it's best just not to listen to him.

Having said that however, he DOES post things that are smart and make you think... but I don't think it's worth him posting here. Sorry, greyfox. Ha. I feel bad...

Originally Posted by DoktorSardonic

Oh it's quite official, printed on paper and everything. I don't know how popular it is anymore, but it's a classic book, probably the classic defense of (strong) atheism. I was pretty agnostic before I read it, but afterwards I felt there was, y'know, actual proof that God doesn't exist. Really nice book, worth the money, honest to goodness.

Ha okay. I'm going to buy it then. Sounds good.

[Hydroponichronic]

Too the certified (101% sure) atheists: It's funny I address you guys like that, namely because I went from Christianity to 101% sure atheist to my current state of agnosticism (50% sure atheist, lol). Mainly, my question to you guys is how do you justify out existence without leaving the possibility of the "supernatural?" I was young and bought into the Christian doctrine out of ignorance. Then I got older and realized that when logically (not scientifically, key difference) analyzed, the religion makes no sense. Then I magically came to the conclusion that there was no god and we were the result of a (I like this phrase) "cosmic fart."

I was so sure of this, because any god I could envision was logically self-contradictory in some way. I remained thinking like this for some time, but recently I reconsidered some things. I had a thread about this a little bit ago, and it was the idea that cause and effect (upon which all knowledge and logic is based...) start to fade in certain places. IE, the thing that made me determine there is no god may be wrong. If this turns out to be the case, than there really might be some old white dude with a big white beard and flowing white robes who created, and runs, the universe and actually gives a shit what we do with our lives.

So I guess to summarize, have you guys solved the old paradox of how something can come from nothing? If not, then you should probably rethink you're atheistic certainty.

Oh, and before I get either "the universe has always existed, thus it didn't come from nothing" or "even god must have come from something, so that doesn't solve the paradox either," just mention it and I can explain my reasoning on them (no flaming required, I'm here for answers, not to try and convince anyone of anything)

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic

Too the certified (101% sure) atheists: It's funny I address you guys like that, namely because I went from Christianity to 101% sure atheist to my current state of agnosticism (50% sure atheist, lol). Mainly, my question to you guys is how do you justify out existence without leaving the possibility of the "supernatural?" I was young and bought into the Christian doctrine out of ignorance. Then I got older and realized that when logically (not scientifically, key difference) analyzed, the religion makes no sense. Then I magically came to the conclusion that there was no god and we were the result of a (I like this phrase) "cosmic fart."

I was so sure of this, because any god I could envision was logically self-contradictory in some way. I remained thinking like this for some time, but recently I reconsidered some things. I had a thread about this a little bit ago, and it was the idea that cause and effect (upon which all knowledge and logic is based...) start to fade in certain places. IE, the thing that made me determine there is no god may be wrong. If this turns out to be the case, than there really might be some old white dude with a big white beard and flowing white robes who created, and runs, the universe and actually gives a shit what we do with our lives.

So I guess to summarize, have you guys solved the old paradox of how something can come from nothing? If not, then you should probably rethink you're atheistic certainty.

Oh, and before I get either "the universe has always existed, thus it didn't come from nothing" or "even god must have come from something, so that doesn't solve the paradox either," just mention it and I can explain my reasoning on them (no flaming required, I'm here for answers, not to try and convince anyone of anything)

Well... when I said I was 101% sure God doesn't exist, I meant the Christian God. I am atheist, but... maybe I'm a bit agnostic. I don't know... SOMETHING is up there*. I don't know anything about science, like I said, i'm not very book smart. So I guess it'd be wrong to call myself an atheist, hey? lol. Only smart people can be atheists, otherwise they don't know what the hell they believe in, right...?

*That sounds lame. But you know what I mean.

[Rizzo in a box]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Is it an official book? Like, could I find it at a bookstore? I'll buy it at the bookstore tomorrow.

Ha, yeah, @ the greyfox thing. When I thought about it, I didn't really want to bash his beliefs. I'd sound like a douche, but it was an attractive title. But if I had to mention him now... I just find it really sad that he believes in all that stuff. There's no proof for it... I can easily be tolerant of his beliefs, but he'll never reach true enlightenment from believing in all that stuff. Whoa, holy crap. The room just shook. I've never felt that before. That was weird. O_O I feel crazy... is this a sign? As soon as I typed "he'll never reach true enlightenment from believing in all that stuff" I started shaking - like my head was spinning. Errr... uh... :|

You just vibrated in synch with the rest of creation. Congratulations! You have a chance.

[Kilyke]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

So if you just KNOW you're alone in this world, you can reach "enlightenment" in a flash.

It's so so hard for me to explain what I'm thinking. I can't do it - I give up. I guess I'll just leave you all with this:

You can't reach enlightenment believing in a God, or any of that spiritual mumbo jumbo. That just leaves you... wrong.

Now, I'm no apologist for religion -well, okay, maybe a little- but I take objection to this. We don't know that we're alone in the world; I'm not even sure what that means. In the sense that we're the only ones who can truly experience our victories and our defeats, sure, we're alone. But so what?

In fact we cannot know what is really Real. Reality only exists as a figment of our extrapolations from limited sensory inputs. Moreover, what theories we use to do these extrapolations may change throughout time (consider the paradigm-shift that quantum theory required of us.) But Newton's theory wasn't WRONG, just "unclear in certain domains." Newtonian physics is still taught in schools, and works in most circumstances, but not every circumstance. The same is true for other sorts of "theories."

My theory is, since we cannot know "reality as it really is" (Reality's just too big for that)... why the need to rule out "supernatural" or "spiritual" forces? While I don't think it's necessary to believe in such things, I don't think it can hinder the process of "enlightenment." Actually, it might help by allowing the person to focus their "energy" on something besides themselves, something bigger than their own "ego."

On the other hand, I also don't think that enlightenment is synonymous with perfect and always correct knowledge. I don't think there is such a thing as perfect knowledge.

A more useful, to me, meditation (since that's what you're talking about with KNOWING that we're alone in the world) comes form the book Buddhism Without Beliefs by Stephen Bachelor. It is:
"Since death alone is certain, and the time of death uncertain, what should I do?"

It would seem that since death alone is certain, it doesn't matter what we do.
However, I think that we can each find our own answers to the question and, if we could live our lives according to that answer, it would probably be a form of enlightenment.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Cult Leader

Yeah Greyfox's beliefs don't reach me. I sort of personally hate the concept of a belief, if something is true for you then it is true for you. Forcing yourself into certain beliefs in order to achieve a result (the Secret) is absolutely retarded IMO.


Who knows though.. Maybe Greyfox is really getting something out of his crap. To each his own. One thing he needs to realize is that the majority of people here do not buy into that crap and he needs to get off his fucking pedestal.

QFT

And OP, you do sound like an existentialist. Hell, my views are leaning towards it, but I've yet to tread that way.

Greyfox is a good member - until he starts deleting posts and/or putting forward his truth as the only truth. Could be a bit more open-minded. I know, from his perspective he is much more enlightened than this bunch of kids/young adults etc. but come on, sometimes he just puts a monopoly on truth and wisdom.

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by Kilyke

I think that we can each find our own answers to the question and, if we could live our lives according to that answer, it would probably be a form of enlightenment.

Hey... yeah. I just find it really sad though. My friend was saying yesterday, "I'm so close to God. It's great. " And I just felt really depressed - because we all know that she's not close to anyone. It's all a lie, and... sigh. I don't know. Should I even care? There's just something really wrong about it.

I kinda agreed with your post btw.

[Rizzo in a box]

Questions...answers...all dependent...on cause and effect. But...eternal...timeless...beyond.

[DoktorSardonic]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Hey... yeah. I just find it really sad though. My friend was saying yesterday, "I'm so close to God. It's great. " And I just felt really depressed - because we all know that she's not close to anyone. It's all a lie, and... sigh. I don't know. Should I even care? There's just something really wrong about it.

Caring is good, dude. Caring is good.

[Rizzo in a box]

Originally Posted by DoktorSardonic

Caring is good, dude. Caring is good.

lol not its not

caring is far too much like pity

which reeks of weakness

[DoktorSardonic]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

lol not its not

caring is far too much like pity

which reeks of weakness

Everybody's weak in their own way. You don't have a monopoly on that word, and you don't get to quantify the feelings of others.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Hey... yeah. I just find it really sad though. My friend was saying yesterday, "I'm so close to God. It's great. " And I just felt really depressed - because we all know that she's not close to anyone. It's all a lie, and... sigh. I don't know. Should I even care? There's just something really wrong about it.

I kinda agreed with your post btw.

Don't make others depress you or anything man, it's their life and all. I passively converted my girlfriend and a few friends away from christian/catholic thought. Honest, I didn't mean to but, according to their words "You're such a morally good yet godless person that God seems unnecessary"... and it got them thinking and a few months later BAM! Agnostics the whole bunch of them. They just came and asked me various scientific things.

Originally Posted by Rizzo

Questions...answers...all dependent...on cause and effect. But...eternal...timeless...beyond.

Posting writing devoid of sense and with a lot of "..." doesn't make you look smart.

[Rizzo in a box]

Maybe I'm trying to look stupid...ever consider that...?

XD

[El Monstruo]

When I look at Grefox's posts, I say to myself, "the mind is weak."

[Rizzo in a box]

Originally Posted by El Monstruo

When I look at Grefox's posts, I say to myself, "the mind is weak."

lol and what are you using to say that...?

[thanks]

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Now, there's no God, right? You're alone in this world. There's nobody up there to help you. When you die, that's it. There's blackness. So... nothing matters. Ha, you know when you go onto a forum, like this one, or 4chan, or whatever, and you see people aruging about pointless things? What's the point? Nothing matters. There's no God... so who cares?

Yay I found your thread.

I totally get what your saying about the idea of Greyfox and his non-enlightenment. You're just so much more humble yet empowered when you realize that the human condition is all we have to work with. Everything is not pointless though, all the suffering on the planet is real and although it is just one point on a scale of a huge amount of time it matters because it is real.

Originally Posted by Blunderful

Another thing - I've always dreaded having sex. I've been a Christian all my life, and had the mindset to wait until marriage. My ex girlfriend keeps telling me how wrong it is for me to have sex outside of marriage, and that I'm being stupid for even considering it. Now... well, I don't care anymore. If I want to have sex - who cares? She's the one who's crazy. Sigh. Do I sound crazy? I do, don't I?

Not at all. Although I think it'd be wrong to justify murder with "nothing matters lulz in the long run so let's do it" I think your experiencing a shift towards a greater self-acceptance. I say trust that whisper in the back of your mind telling you what is right, don't listen to what your ex says or your religion or whatever you know what is right and they can't tell you what to do/think/be.

While you're hitting your existential peak, I definitely recommend the The Stranger by Albert Camus.

[Blunderfail]

Originally Posted by thanks

Yay I found your thread.

I totally get what your saying about the idea of Greyfox and his non-enlightenment. You're just so much more humble yet empowered when you realize that the human condition is all we have to work with. Everything is not pointless though, all the suffering on the planet is real and although it is just one point on a scale of a huge amount of time it matters because it is real.

Oh, glad you agree with me and see what I'm saying.
And yeah, you're right.

Not at all. Although I think it'd be wrong to justify murder with "nothing matters lulz in the long run so let's do it" I think your experiencing a shift towards a greater self-acceptance. I say trust that whisper in the back of your mind telling you what is right, don't listen to what your ex says or your religion or whatever you know what is right and they can't tell you what to do/think/be.

Yeah, it's not like having sex before marriage is even a big deal. Murder is a big deal though.

If one day, I actually decide to get married, I'm not going to care if my wife is a virgin or not. Marriage should be about love, not sex. My ex-girlfriend is just fucking retarded.