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  #1  
Old 05-17-2009, 12:00 PM
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Default Desomorphine (russian magic)

Desomorphine, 10 times stronger then morphine, lasts 11-16 hours and will you have drooling on your pillow staring at an invisible cat in no time, if its good enough for the russians its good enough for us.

Apperently we werent the first to think of this, fortunetely for us our idea was better, who the hell uses hydroidic acid..., lets slam it with some phosphouric acid or something. this is the right up from a silver poster called devestate, use it as a building block, destroy, create, make me a desomorphine birthday cake

OK simple writeup

React SOCl2 with codeine, purify with 2M HCL, then precipitate with Sodium Carbonate extract the amorphous precipitate rapidly into ether. Repeat, then wash with cold ethanol, with removes further inpurities. This give a-chlorocodide

Five grams of a-chlorocodide suspended in 100 cc. of water was brought into solution by addition of normal hydrochloric acid and hydrogenated in the presence of 1.05 g. of palladium-barium sulfate.
The absorption amounted to 2.27 moles of hydrogen most of which was taken up in the first hour. Expect it to be finished in 11

By precipitation with ammonia and extraction with ether, 1.5 g. of
Dihydrodesoxycodeine-D hemihydrate was obtained.

Demethylation of Dihydrodesoxycodeine-D.
-A solution of 1.5 g. of dihydrodesoxycodeine-D in 4.5 cc. of hydriodic acid, sp. gr. 1.7, was boiled vigorously for three minutes.

To the cooled solution, water (about 15 cc.) was added slowly with scratching until crystals no longer separated. The mixture was warmed nearly to boiling, whereby the crystals became pure white and more granular. The yield of dihydrodesoxymorphine-D
hydriodide was 1.73 g.


As you can see, this is far from easy. For a chemist, no problem. palladium-barium sulfate WILL be a bitch to get...
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2009, 02:50 PM
Irukanji Irukanji is offline
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Hmm....

Does it HAVE to be palladium-barium sulfate? Is there another, easier to get catalyst that will suffice?
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2009, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

I bet there is, but this is probably taken from a procedure that used palladium-barium sulfate.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

I wonder why they used palladium barium sulfate... Only reason I could think might be down to trying to increase the density of the molecule so as to make it far easier to separate and recover after the reaction. Possibly that procedure was taken directly from a novel experimental one, where in order to detect pure fractions of the synthesised molecule, and in order to ensure that the molecule synthesised was the intended one, a radioactive marker was required?
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2009, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy_9005 View Post
Hmm....

Does it HAVE to be palladium-barium sulfate? Is there another, easier to get catalyst that will suffice?
Don't see why not - seems like it might just have been something the experimentalist had lying around...

I would imagine Pd/C would be a suitable replacement for Pd/BaSO4

I'm a touch bleary-eyed here, so can someone explain how the C-Cl bond gets reduced to C-H ?

Last edited by fcknut; 05-17-2009 at 03:47 PM.
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2009, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

How about Cu/SiO2?
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2009, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Anyone have any books specifically on catalysts? Gonna check clayden and see what he sais, but w.e....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium_...talyst_support
For those too lazy to read it
Quote:
Barium sulfate is a low surface area material used as a support for selectively hydrogenating functional groups sensitive to overreduction. With a low surface area, the contact time of the substrate with the catalyst is shorter. A supported palladium catalyst on barium sulfate, and doped (poisoned) with quinoline hydrogenates alkynes into cis-alkenes. Alkenes are liable to be hydrogenated further into alkanes, which reaction the special support and poison preven
Seems it is only used as a catalyst support due to it's low surface area, so activated carbon is out the question(it has a high surface area, right?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindlar_catalyst
Perhaps?
Quote:
A Lindlar catalyst is a heterogeneous catalyst that consists of palladium deposited on calcium carbonate and treated with various forms of lead. The lead additive serves to deactivate the palladium sites. A variety of "catalyst poisons" have been used including lead acetate and lead oxide. The palladium content of the catalyst is usually 5% by weight. The catalyst is used for the hydrogenation of alkynes to alkenes.
Calcium Carbonate is much easier to get then Barium Sulfate, no? Then u just need a way to make Palladium-Calcium Carbonate....hmmm.....All you need is Calcium Carbonate, Palladium, Lead Acetate or Oxide...and a way to make it

http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/...?prep=CV5P0880

Might help...

Dunno if this is really a substitute, since my chem is pretty poor to say the least.
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2009, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy_9005 View Post
Seems it is only used as a catalyst support due to it's low surface area, so activated carbon is out the question(it has a high surface area, right?)
Well... the high surface area of activated carbon would be an issue in those cases where the substrate is sensitive to over-reduction. In this case, that shouldn't be a problem...
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2009, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

that is a shit write-up, in the codeine thread we found out we can use S02 and S03 instead, some chlorine and a bit of luck and there we have it?

i dont know, ill re edit this after people leave
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2009, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcknut View Post
Well... the high surface area of activated carbon would be an issue in those cases where the substrate is sensitive to over-reduction. In this case, that shouldn't be a problem...
Ah, so Palladium on Carbon should be fine.....but then wouldnt Nickel on Carbon work aswell?(i have a thing where they said it can be a suitable substitute to the Palladium on Carbon catalyst's).
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  #11  
Old 06-08-2009, 11:04 PM
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Smile Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

BUMP. Since I told you to make this thread I thought I'd better add my bit before I peace-

Pd/C, Rainey Ni, Adam's catalyst or maybee even Al/Hg should work for the hydrogenation. For the decarboxylation fuuuck HI, boil that motha in xylene or some shit. Really the only tricky bit is the SO2Cl2- though I believe I posted some ways around that in another opiate thread. Wolf-kishner perhaps. Thionyl can be made, it's just nasty.

I'd really like to hear a synth report for this stuff from one of you ozzy or cannukian bees.
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  #12  
Old 06-09-2009, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

I haven't exactly read this thread, so I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but MnO4 (or other equivalently strong ox agent) can be used to convert secondary alcohols into ketones, (ref: methcathinone). Ketones, then can get wolff-kishnered, correct? Rather than going through the trouble of SO2, SO3, SOCl2, etc, Hydrazine can be made by the following link:http://www.roguesci.org/megalomania/...html#hydrazine

Helpful?
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  #13  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydroponichronic View Post
I haven't exactly read this thread, so I don't know if it's already been mentioned...
Aye, alternately a Clemmensen reduction might be preformed. The question is whether codeinone better withstands strongly acidic or basic condition. Also: you'd want to use MnO2 for the oxidation, codeine is rather picky like that.

From the last thread-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect View Post
codeine + MnO2 + HCl -> codeinone (1)
codeinone + Zn + HCl -> 7,8-di-fucking-hydro-desocodeine something (not IUPAC)
hydro-desocodeine + hydrogenation -> desocodeine
desocodeine + that shit jesus was talking about -> hella fucking win.
Moar refs-

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcknut View Post
...

I really want to see this done! I would have to drive to Canada or Mexico to get some codeine, you Australians have no excuse!
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2010, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Alright, having some organic knowledge I want to point out a few things, first it is only possible to demethylate a few opioids without breaking the ether bridge. Second, hydrogenation using some catalysts has been shown to reduce the double bond AND opens the ether bridge.

After reading many articles (by Small in J Am Chem Soc 1932) I have come up with the possible explanation, that the hydrogenation also breaks the ether bridge, resulting in tetrahydrodesoxycodeine, which can be demethylated by HI while desocodeine cannot (according to those papers I have read, also the desocodeine's ether would break, possibly giving tetrahydrodesoxymorphine). Demethylation of desocodeine is possible with methoxide, however the yield is terrible and I think it must be done under pressure.

So does anyone know the potency of tetrahydrodesoxymorphine? Is it possible to confuse with desomorphine? Its possible this procedure leads to the formation of that, which is the same as desomorphine except the ether bridge is broke and the oxygen is on the aromatic side. The procedure above says 2.21 moles of H2 were taken up, which doesn't make sense since the amount of chlorocodide in there is about 16 mmol, so only 16mmol should be taken up or if the ether bridge is broke, 32 mmol. 2moles is way too much, there must have been a leak).

So are the russians actually doing it this way? Because they may be producing the tetrahydrodesoxymorphine instead of desomorphine. So which would be better to make?
If desocodeine is possible then the biggest problem is demethylation, but this may not be a problem if one wants to cleave that bridge.

All that's left is to find out the potency of tetrahydrodesoxymorphine and see if its on par with desomorphine

ref: Small. J. Am. Chem. Soc. pg. 2874. 1932
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2010, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford Prefect View Post

I really want to see this done! I would have to drive to Canada or Mexico to get some codeine, you Australians have no excuse!
Except codiene meds going completely behind the counter, almost same as pseudo
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  #16  
Old 03-15-2010, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Codeine is like dirt over here, it's everywhere. DHC is also very, very abundant.
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  #17  
Old 03-16-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

That is intresting, do you have any idea on purity?
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2011, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

as far as i know the difference in strength between tetrahydrodesoxymorphine and desomorphine is negligible the only major difference is in the bio-availability of the former being considerably less, but lets be honest, for an at home heroin substitute it is a pretty good mixture.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

I don't know chemistry like you guys, but why does it cause all of the necrosis? toxins that can't get filtered out of the bloodstream and eating the body. why doesn't this happen with methamphetamine that has been improperly synthesized and contains traces of the bad shit that should have been filtered out? I've seen meth like this. One batch, I took a puff and I got a chemical burn in my lungs, or at least it felt like it. It continued to burn after I exhaled the smoke, every time I took a breath for like 5 minutes. I immediately went to flush the whole gram, and my buddy wouldn't let me. he bagged it 5 times and put it in his attick. one day I could smell it coming out of his skin (this stuff must have been almost pure ammonia, everything it touched reaked of cat urine for weeks) and asked him if he did some, and he couldn't believe I knew. Turns out he parachuted the whole gram. He started getting weird seizures all of the time, and would fall asleep often and not be able to be woken up. He shot himself a few months later. Wouldn't something like this cause the same types of necrotising problems if IV'd? What is significant about this clandestine desomorphine that makes it any worse? Are you guys proposing that a safe form of the drug could be synthesized from home?

Last edited by IWD; 06-23-2011 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcknut View Post
Well... the high surface area of activated carbon would be an issue in those cases where the substrate is sensitive to over-reduction. In this case, that shouldn't be a problem...
This is correct, in fact i don't believe there is any group on the molecule that would be considered at risk when the hydrogenation is carried out at atmostpheric temperature and pressure. the only thing i did not care for when using the carbon for this experiment was that the fine carbon is difficult to fully filter out unless you've got killer filter pads, the product can sometimes look a touch dark. easily fixed.

for he who mentioned the calcium carbonate support just think carefully again about it and you'll figure out there is an pretty major problem with its use in the medium (solvent) in question.

it is always very heartwarming when one finds chemistry literature that explains and describes techniques liike the 3 minute boil de methylation of the direct precursor intermediate. ok, these work but to a limited extent, please noone reference the yeild cited, i've read it too, if you include the black tar then yes you get the yeild lol, can be minimized with hi quality chems and not being really stoned when working on the reaction.
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  #21  
Old 07-01-2011, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

SOCl2 is toxic as hell, I'm fairly sure I came across a desomorphine synth that didn't involve any extremely toxic compounds.
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  #22  
Old 07-01-2011, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

That sucks IWD.

My speculation, is that necrosis is caused by impure production, or synthesis, whatever you call it. You got some dopesick junkies trying to get high from mixing chemicals together. If this drug was actually produced in labs, instead of mostly by the users in small batches, this probably wouldnt happen.
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

I saw several articles reference "junkies cooking it up by rote from memory" presumably with shit equipment and rough and ready ingredients.
heh, sounds like redneck tweekers actually.

Plus...well, i've seen some pretty fucled up, ate up heroin addicts.
there's only so many times you can punch a vein with a blunt dirty needly before something starts rotting.
Keep in mind, we're working from news story's about drug addicts, this source isn't known for strict attention to facts.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

Opiods are fucking disgusting.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

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Originally Posted by SeanyDigital View Post
Opiods are fucking disgusting.
Yo son, steppin on my turf dawg dats dangerous yo I knows u waz a big coke dealuh an ery thang but dawg fo real
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  #26  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

just to point out, we're in flasks and beakers, not bltc. and stateofhack has very little sense of humor when it comes to bullshitting up his threads.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

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Originally Posted by SeanyDigital View Post
Opiods are fucking disgusting.
Different strokes for different folks. Drugs affect everyone differently.
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  #28  
Old 07-20-2011, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Desomorphine (russian magic)

hi there, had a quick read of this thread...what any one messing with the morph skeleton should be aware of is strong HCl will do nasty things to some of those derivatives and produce apomorphine...a very powerful emetic...with no fun effects at all
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