Lysergic Bliss

I think it's typically assumed that without a doctorate in organic chemistry and a field full of moldy wheat, LSD is an impossible feat. And because people feel that it is impossible, they perpetuate that stereotype by leaving LSD manufacture those with doctorates and wheat farms instead of theorizing new ways to the compound.

So, lets brainstorm. Or thought shower, if we were trying to be politically correct and British. (1)

It is my opinion that the easiest/best/only practical way to LSD at this point in time is pills. Either ala drone using bromocriptine, gringard then then adding water for ergocriptine. Hydrolyze then condense with diethylamine and you've got a couple sheets of sunshine.

Bromocriptine is easy enough to find, brand name Parlodel and all that. But it's also quite a bit more expensive then Cafegot, which contains ergotamine. And with ergotamine we would have no use for a gringard.

ergotamine + NaOH -> lysergic acid

DEET + NaOH -> diethylamine

lysergic acid + diethylamine + peptitde couple reagent -> LSD-25

It's not quite that simple, it'd be best if you did the hydrolysis under nitrogen and you'd likely want ethylene glycol present in the synthesis of your DEA but you get the point. It's far from impossible.

As for your peptitde coupling reagent, you have plenty acceptable choices. I've never heard of them being particularly watched, but if that was the case it'd be possibly, although a pain in the ass, to make one at home.

If you'd rather not fuck with pills, as I'm sure you all know LSA can be extracted from HBWR or morning glory. But that method is dirty, expensive and time consuming and in my personal opinion, not really worth your time.


Thoughts?

[Lysergic Rain]

Uncle Festers guide to practical LSD manufacture
http://rapidshare.com/files/19089277...anufacture.pdf

I think LSD has become a thing of the past. Its difficult to manufacture, and if you spill just a little bit on your it absorbs through the skin and you die. Now that we have these new exciting RCs I think our time is better spent trying to find and sythesise the one that produces effects closest to LSD

EDIT:
Not to mention any retard can grow some mushrooms in their basement. The risk and effort to make LSD just isn't worth the reward; its not the most profitable of drugs. People these days are just looking to have a good time, not an eye opening experience. That said, I LOVE acid and wish there were more labs around. Sadly though, its time has passed (stock up while you still can).

Originally Posted by Lysergic Rain

Uncle Festers guide to practical LSD manufacture
http://rapidshare.com/files/19089277...anufacture.pdf

Nice thought, but that's basically the book that inspired me to make the thread. Practical my ass!

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Lysergic Rain

I think LSD has become a thing of the past. Its difficult to manufacture, and if you spill just a little bit on your it absorbs through the skin and you die. Now that we have these new exciting RCs I think our time is better spent trying to find and sythesise the one that produces effects closest to LSD

No no no no no! Fuck man, the LD50 for that stuff is close to 12,000 ug. Good luck absorbing that through your skin. And sure, RCs are great, but why waste time trying to find the closest one to LSD when you can make LSD? 2C-I from anethole isn't much easier than LSD from cafegot anyways, infact it's harder in many ways. LSD is definitely not one of those chemicals that people forget about. It's not 4-mar, and I definitely don't see people just letting it die because it requires a bit of skill in the lab.

Originally Posted by Lysergic Rain

Not to mention any retard can grow some mushrooms in their basement. The risk and effort to make LSD just isn't worth the reward; its not the most profitable of drugs. People these days are just looking to have a good time, not an eye opening experience. That said, I LOVE acid and wish there were more labs around. Sadly though, its time has passed (stock up while you still can).

Still not buying it. You've got a point, using a traditional method such as culturing ergot it would be a dangerous and inefficient drug to make and probably not worth the risk. But that method is old, and not the only way to do it.

Spending a hundred buck on pills from an offshore pharmacy and then synthesizing a gram of acid seems like a VERY profitable endeavor. Shit, where I currently reside a single hit of blotter goes for $50-60. Considering a gram would be close to 10,000 doses a person would stand to make a considerable amount. It's time has in no way passed, I believe there is just as much as a demand as ever and chemists just need to devote themselves to new ways of producing it.

Hence this thread...

[Lysergic Rain]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Fuck man, the LD50 for that stuff is close to 12,000 ug. Good luck absorbing that through your skin.

I only mentioned it because of this passage from the book:

The potency of LSD is truly phenomenal — 10,000 doses per gram — and is easily absorbed through the skin. This is how Albert Hofmann, the
discoverer of LSD, got his first trip. He was skilled enough that his boo-boo involved a small enough dose that his brain was not fried. Beginner chemists tend to get the stuff they are cooking all over themselves, and would not be so lucky

Regardless, the point still stands that people are looking for MDMA and similar drugs, not LSD. There are a few of us psychonauts left, but not many. And most the people I've talked to who want to try LSD don't really understand it. They don't understand the difference between hallucinogenics and deliriants and expect to see leprechauns and rainbows, now sit in a field and think about the meaning of life.

Originally Posted by Lysergic Rain

Regardless, the point still stands that people are looking for MDMA and similar drugs, not LSD. There are a few of us psychonauts left, but not many. And most the people I've talked to who want to try LSD don't really understand it. They don't understand the difference between hallucinogenics and deliriants and expect to see leprechauns and rainbows, now sit in a field and think about the meaning of life.

Stop quoting fester! That motherfucker included propionic anhydride in that book because it is watched even in gram amounts. Fester figures that LSD is the only drug so potent that a gram would matter so suddenly propionic acid is key to making LSD!

Fester, that retard.

Yes, it can be absorbed trough your skin but you really shouldn't be a chemists if you knowingly manufacture LSD without gloves on.
Back to discussing how to MAKE the drug... if you've got ideas I'd love to hear them.

[Irukanji]

You mean a field full of mouldy rye?

And LSD is too hard for even the most experienced chemist's. You need a fair amount of expensive glassware, loads of different chemicals(illegal to get), and where i live, just 0.01g of it will stick you in the slammer for possession with intent.

But if you have the ingredients and the equipment needed, then i should be a very profitable venture indeed. But make bad stuff, and they'll probably rat you out.

[TheHerald]

On a topic very related to the subject of this thread - JoePedo was permabanned.

http://bbs.zoklet.net/member.php?u=1711

RIP 2009-2009.

And LSD is too hard for even the most experienced chemist's.

Nah. It's a level of complexity not too far off from RP/I, really. 'n there were some thoughts on the total synthesis of lysergic acid on &t, too... though none of the posters involved are on Zoklet, and those who did were b& for showing up...

Good luck in your LSD quest, and good day.

[adam_777]

I like the sound of the Cafergot route.

Do you think it would be feasible, though?

Extract the ergotamine tartrate from the pils, throw in some NaOH to get some LSA. Then to that add your DEA and a coupling agent?

All seems a bit.... simple, no?

It might be interesting to get some Cafergot and see how things go.... Hmmm...

Also, TheHerald, I don't think that was the JoePedo. I think someone just reg'd his name before him, or something.

[stateofhack]

ehh,

Lets please stay on subject..and i can't see the band thing, i will ask other mods wtf is this about

JoePedo aka IamtheJoepedo or whatever, is not banned or IP Banned just checked. So please back on subject and no more bullshit.

Originally Posted by TheHerald

On a topic very related to the subject of this thread - JoePedo was permabanned.

He hasn't even received an infraction. Why would you say he's banned?


Back on topic! You guys are horrible.

Originally Posted by adam_777

I like the sound of the Cafergot route.

Do you think it would be feasible, though?

Extract the ergotamine tartrate from the pils, throw in some NaOH to get some LSA. Then to that add your DEA and a coupling agent?

All seems a bit.... simple, no?

It might be interesting to get some Cafergot and see how things go.... Hmmm...

Yeah, it's feasible. Of course you've got to watch your lab conditions, but you don't need expense glassware or exotic solvents.

I'd say the only piece of glass you would need that isn't absolutely standard is a chromatography column. And that's only to be nice.

Also, it would become to lysergic acid, not LSA.

[TheHerald]

Originally Posted by incorporated

TUnless, you're implying that you're him and you made The Herald to find out why you were banned.

Bingo. No worries.

If the "email and password" function hid the old email and confirmed through email, I'd drop the password so y'all could see the b& message for yourselves, and just change the password later. When I finally give up, I might just do so anyway. The reason given was "Making Troll accounts and spamming" with expiry "Never"... complete with inexplicable capitalization on "troll."

Edit : fuck it.

username :
ImJoeThePedo

pass :
[EDITED by Ford, cuz he's on top of this ]

Ritual account sacrifice :
the final solution to jam the censorship surrounding a clandestine ban-in-secret

The account is now inexorably dead, but y'all can view the b& message that "doesn't exist" for yourself. Worst that can happen is that whomever did it, undoes it, no?

[incorporated]

How well would a helium atmosphere work in place of one which is nitrogenous in the reaction Ford was mentioning? I might go ask for my job back at the pharmacy ;x. I remember you mentioned the He thing in your LSA thread (which I regret not saving =\). If I ever feel like buying a lot of HBWR seeds, though, I may patronize you for a brief summary and continuation extraction.

Also, sorry for being a bit thick headed earlier.

[adam_777]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Also, it would become to lysergic acid, not LSA.

Oops, that's what I meant, clearly not paying enough attention.

Anyway, is everyone just about ready to get back on topic now?

[TheHerald]

Originally Posted by incorporated

How well would a helium atmosphere work in place of one which is nitrogenous in the reaction Ford was mentioning?

Should work pretty well. The purpouse of the N2 is pretty much to be inert, not to lyse, hydrogenate, and alkylate, 'n well... noble gases are pretty good at being inert. Technically, a bit better than nitrogen.

If you already have a massive industrial chem lab, buying tanks of nitrogen is probably a bit cheaper, unless you synthesize the helium yourself (HI NSA!!)... but if you're doing this in your basement, a tank of helium from the party store is probably cheaper, easier, and requires less chit-chatting about how, oh yes, you just really, really need to do your arc welding under N2 atmosphere to decrease corrosion or something...

Originally Posted by incorporated

If I ever feel like buying a lot of HBWR seeds, though, I may patronize you for a brief summary and continuation extraction.

Y'know, if you've got a good way to isolate lysergic acid itself from veggie tea, you don't have to be quite as gentle on the pH. Might be able to get it down to a relatively simple two-pot synthesis.

Originally Posted by incorporated

Also, sorry for being a bit thick headed earlier.

No worries. It happens.

I'm just hoping our noble moderators can somehow, someday, track down the provenance on a censorship ban so secret, not even the mods forum knows about it. Hmm...

[incorporated]

Originally Posted by TheHerald

Y'know, if you've got a good way to isolate lysergic acid itself from veggie tea...

I was under the assumption that the tea would just have LSA in sol'n. I would be willing to devote some time to finding a means by which the isolation could be accomplished if I could receive some clarification on the above.

Originally Posted by TheHerald

I'm just hoping our noble moderators can somehow, someday, track down the provenance on a censorship ban so secret, not even the mods forum knows about it. Hmm...

Took me a little while to catch on but I realize now that you were definitely quite banned. Posted a thread in M&A about it and hopefully it'll get lifted soon.

Originally Posted by incorporated

How well would a helium atmosphere work in place of one which is nitrogenous in the reaction Ford was mentioning? I might go ask for my job back at the pharmacy ;x. I remember you mentioned the He thing in your LSA thread (which I regret not saving =\). If I ever feel like buying a lot of HBWR seeds, though, I may patronize you for a brief summary and continuation extraction.

Also, sorry for being a bit thick headed earlier.

Like Joe said helium would be just as dandy. Infact, my wizard has always used helium. He says to keep an eye on your glass so it doesn't float away though.

Psychedelic Chemistry has a nice bit of info on the extraction and hydrolysis.


I made an LSA thread? Or were you talking about someone else?

[TheHerald]

Originally Posted by incorporated

I was under the assumption that the tea would just have LSA in sol'n.

Normally, yes. (and LSiPA, LSMA, and whatever other alkylamides the plant produced) However, as noted in the original unarchived thread - or more specifically, noted without any sort of verbose explanation of WTF is going on by m'homie Shulgin and quoted - it's also a little pH sensitive.

Which means that flooding the crap out of it with something like H2SO4 (or, hell, SO3, let it form in situ) after filtering veggie matter could leave one with a broth of free lysergic acid and various ammonium sulfates...

Originally Posted by incorporated

I would be willing to devote some time to finding a means by which the isolation could be accomplished if I could receive some clarification on the above.

Done!

You might wanna check the solubility of free lysergic acid in low-pH H2O. It looks like it might be a little lipophilic, for all I know.

Of course, decreasing LS-induced aqueous disassociation could also be accomplished in the "first pot" part of such a two-pot by tossing in some methanol and hoping the acid would promote the formation of the methyl ester of the acid...

Either way, there's a chance one can get the desired product to just instantly and automatically precipitate. Nice. Lazy. No effort...

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Took me a little while to catch on but I realize now that you were definitely quite banned. Posted a thread in M&A about it and hopefully it'll get lifted soon.

Thanks. You might wanna mail a new password to the email addy associated with that account, though...

...seeing as the old password is now the domain of every internet undesireable who wanted to read my ban message, and all...

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I made an LSA thread? Or were you talking about someone else?

Oh. When &t died, I was desperately composing the second half of the message in which I tried to encourage BLTC to engage in organized mass action to flood the world with psychedelics... which involved both encouraging mobs to throw morning glory seeds at every square inch of dirt they could find, and making crystalline alkaloidal extraction from the now-uncontrollable lysergic weed common knowledge.

The third stage - turning easy kitchen-chem LSD prep from "keep this a fucking secret" to "the DEA couldn't control the source materials no matter what the fuck they do" - was going to be done in clandestine communications and development in the chemistry community.

At that point, the LSD would flow like water... but until that happened, I was going to recruit BLTC to make chemically clean solutions of ipomea LSx as common as dandelions...

...just workers of the third eye.

[DiamondX]

Originally Posted by TheHerald

Oh. When &t died, I was desperately composing the second half of the message in which I tried to encourage BLTC to engage in organized mass action to flood the world with psychedelics... which involved both encouraging mobs to throw morning glory seeds at every square inch of dirt they could find, and making crystalline alkaloidal extraction from the now-uncontrollable lysergic weed common knowledge.

The third stage - turning easy kitchen-chem LSD prep from "keep this a fucking secret" to "the DEA couldn't control the source materials no matter what the fuck they do" - was going to be done in clandestine communications and development in the chemistry community.

At that point, the LSD would flow like water... but until that happened, I was going to recruit BLTC to make chemically clean solutions of ipomea LSx as common as dandelions...

...just workers of the third eye.

Was that the one where you put the HBWR in the refrigerator? I'm looking forward to the second half. Are you going to post the first half with it? I still don't have a totse archive.

[TheHerald]

Originally Posted by DiamondX

Was that the one where you put the HBWR in the refrigerator?

Yup!!

Originally Posted by DiamondX

I'm looking forward to the second half. Are you going to post the first half with it? I still don't have a totse archive.

I don't have an archive of that post either, but I could probably retype it. After all, if one takes the entertaining "children's science theater" out of it, it was pretty much just a very short list of things which destroy LSx, combined with a few strategies for working around it...

Originally Posted by TheHerald

I don't have an archive of that post either, but I could probably retype it. After all, if one takes the entertaining "children's science theater" out of it, it was pretty much just a very short list of things which destroy LSx, combined with a few strategies for working around it...

Please please do!

Jackketch and I are fighting for your account btw. Nobody's sure what happened just yet, but hopefully it's only a matter of time...

Other pills that might be worth looking into: Ercaf, Migranil, Ergomar and Wigraine. I haven't check the price/mg of alkaloid yet but they should all do the trick.

[TheHerald]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Jackketch and I are fighting for your account btw. Nobody's sure what happened just yet, but hopefully it's only a matter of time...

Thanks. Not sure what I can do for ketch, but I might be able to pay ya back real quick here...

Originally Posted by JoePedo

It's a level of complexity not too far off from RP/I, really.

1. Set fire to striker pad.

2. Pass smoke through LA solution.

3. ???

4. Lysergic acid anhydride.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_pentoxide

Sure, it's all just untested, shaky theory 'n all... but between overacidifying tea and burning striker pads, LSD MIGHT fall on a level of cooking far, far beneath "chemistry."

Not good for a one- or two-pot, though, unless we can tell whether it would mutilate the dialkylamide like it mutilates an amide. It's obviously unlikely to form the nitrile through hyperdessication, but there's a risk it might do *something* if left in the LSD... so it's probably best to try to extract the lysergic acid anhydride before gassing with diethylamine for great justice. Luckily, removal of phosphorous pentoxide shouldn't be that hard to do...

...but that's currently my best speculative hypotheosis on unblockable OTC LSD synthesis without equipment. Lyse, anhydride, amide... pretty much self-assembling in a very forgiving and labor-unintensive fashion.

Yeah. Eat this, shulgin. Eat this. Not that he actually had too much difficulty either or anything...

[stateofhack]

Peptide coupling is the way people.

Cheap and still widely avaible

Originally Posted by stateofhack

Peptide coupling is the way people.

Cheap and still widely avaible

Any suggestions as far as reagents go? My wizard friend always used DCC in his potions, but he tells me that with DCC alone the acid alpha carbon is apparently quite prone to racemization and epimerization.

Maybe BOP, HBTU or HATU would be preferable? Though quite a bit more expensive.

[stateofhack]

I need to do some more reading but IIRC HBTU was the more selective one and the one with the nicer workup and less prone to making toxic by products.

/Not sure tho, leave me a few days and i can confirm it!

[JoePedo]

...and I'm back in the saddle again...

Originally Posted by stateofhack

I need to do some more reading but IIRC HBTU was the more selective one and the one with the nicer workup and less prone to making toxic by products.

Just out of curiosity, any ideas on home synthesis of HBTU with roughly nothing to start with?

Originally Posted by ImJoeThePedo

...and I'm back in the saddle again...



Just out of curiosity, any ideas on home synthesis of HBTU with roughly nothing to start with?

Good to seeya back.

"HBTU/HATU is actually relatively easy to make yourself if you have access to the required chemicals and have pretty good lab skills. To make it, you need oxalyl chloride, teramethylurea, toluene, ether, chloroform, ammonium hexafluorophosphate (or NH4BF4), DCM, HOBt, and triethylamine." (1)

That's all I've got, though there's always an easier way. I'll look around.

DEA from DEET? Or how would you propose making our acquiring our amine as unstoppable and amateur-friendly as possible?

Or maybe an ethyl-something and ammonia?

[stateofhack]

Originally Posted by ImJoeThePedo

...and I'm back in the saddle again...



Just out of curiosity, any ideas on home synthesis of HBTU with roughly nothing to start with?

Working on it, paper getting and reading

[JoePedo]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

"HBTU/HATU is actually relatively easy to make yourself if you have access to...

Hmm. I think I'm going with the flaming distillates of my own piss, so far. I'll take a look at the ref, though, because... well, hey... there IS always an easier way.

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

DEA from DEET? Or how would you propose making our acquiring our amine as unstoppable and amateur-friendly as possible?

Or maybe an ethyl-something and ammonia?

I was thinking ethan...ol. Quick little fractionated aldehyde, quick little reduction to the amine... or, scattershot with the halide. But mostly, yeast is pretty hard to control; just go fruit-picking late-season...

Ironically, propionic anhydride would work... but, the hoffman rearrangement would only allow one to use it for the monoethylamine. The second ethylation would still require careful ethyl chloride use, or ethaldehyde use, or kinky actions involving vinegar and LAH...

...and it'd be a waste to use propionic anhydride, unless one had no free propionic acid to salt and destructively distill. Incidentally, somewhat possibly distantly-relative to this... there's a number of curious dehydrating reactions of alcohols that are decently selective which might be worth reading. I found it interesting going through simply because of the competing dehydrating agents used - phosphorous pentoxide, acyl halides, and DCC are all used to create bizzare radicals of DMSO...

...I found it an interesting group of compounds to be competing. Incidentally, are there any refs out there as to POI3 as an analog of POCl3 in the formation of acyl halides? LSD could be "easy as RP/I" in yet another way if so... seeing as the main difficulty of POCl3 is getting incompetent chemists - or even competent ones - playing with chlorine gas 'n all. Or even refluxing phosphorous in it...

...the intermediary in HI regeneration could just be a useful precursor to open the Shulgin route to the street.

I'm still not sure I've wrapped my head around this tea you're proposing. This isn't morning glory tea, is it? Personally I'd rather fuck around with pills over plant matter any day of the week, but plants do have the uncontrollable aspect to them that makes the drug war seem like a game of connect four with three pieces.

Huh.

[King Owl]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

No no no no no! Fuck man, the LD50 for that stuff is close to 12,000 ug.

Disagree.

Originally Posted by mandelbrots uncle

Disagree.

You do that. Of course science would then have to disagree with you.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

[sexualjesus]

this thread is pretty awesome.
my basic understanding of ergotamine is poisoned maize (corn), i always wondered how easy it would be just to grow corn and poison it after with the poison that turns it into ergotamine, i dont know much about this cafegot but i assume it would be expensive and wouldnt be in large quantities, not that you would need large quantities for a drug thats measured in micrograms.

the herald might be onto something with striker pads, it sounds easy enough that instead of theorising someone could waste a bit of money and actually test it out for shits and giggles.

lsa can be turned into lsd but i cant really trust the legitimacy
Example 1
A suspension is prepared from 5.0 g of isolysergic acid amide in 80 ml of anhydrous methanol; the mixture is cooled to about -50 deg. C. and, under agitation, 40 ml of a 13N solution of hydrogen chloride in anhydrous methanol is added thereto. The clear solution is allowed to warm up to room temperature and further stirred overnight. The primary amount of the thus-formed ester hydrochloride is thus crystallized. By cooling in an ice bath and adding ethyl acetate, the crystallization is completed, and the precipitate is vacuum-filtered.

Yield: 5.2 g (84% of theory) of lysergic acid methyl ester, hydrochloride.

alpha(D) =+94 deg. (0.5% in methanol).

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodiu...ic.amides.html

[incorporated]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

You do that. Of course science would then have to disagree with you.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

How does that make thumbprints possible?

Originally Posted by sexualjesus

. . .

First of all, you've got to remember that ergot is a poison. It is very bad for your life. I personally would never attempt to culture it because I value my limbs too much but I suppose it could be done.

Cafergot is about a dollar a pill, meaning $1/mg ergotamine. 50 cents if you buy bulk. Pricey, but unavoidable. HBWR seeds will cost you just as much, if not more. And in the long run every mg of ergotamine WILL become a couple of LSD.

Second, check here for a decent hydrolysis. You'd have better luck with that than trying to convert it to the methyl ester, I reckon.

Night y'all.

[adam_777]

Originally Posted by sexualjesus

i always wondered how easy it would be just to grow corn and poison it after with the poison that turns it into ergotamine

I'd definitely not do that!

Ergot poisoning makes your limbs fall off and other such nasties.

As for the Cafergot, I had a quick look and seen some for 26p per pill, which is pretty damn good I'd say.

It seems that pills could indeed be the future of acid!

[sexualjesus]

Originally Posted by adam_777

I'd definitely not do that!

Ergot poisoning makes your limbs fall off and other such nasties.

As for the Cafergot, I had a quick look and seen some for 26p per pill, which is pretty damn good I'd say.

It seems that pills could indeed be the future of acid!

ill hit up some malls tomorow to find the prices of cafergot, but if its as easy as ford says it is i say its time to make some fucking acid
ergotamine + NaOH -> lysergic acid
DEET + NaOH -> diethylamine
lysergic acid + diethylamine + peptitde couple reagent -> LSD-25
i have the naoh so tomorow ill shop around for prices on deet and this cafegot and then ill post, dear god im high right now i really do hope ill be able to read this peice of paper i wrote for myself.

[evil[apostrophe]tree]

can someone tell me if i'm understanding this right?

so you hydrolysize your ergotamine and that breaks it at the nitrogen bond between the two 'halves' of it?

you then peptide couple DEA onto the LSA hydrate, right? so you'd need a peptide coupling reagent that would bond a R-NH to a R-COOH, right?

[incorporated]

Originally Posted by evil[apostrophe]tree

so you'd need a peptide coupling reagent that would bond a R-NH to a R-COOH, right?

I'm pretty sure that's the definition of a peptide coupling reagent.

[Irukanji]

You can buy tanks of argon for arc welding. Im almost sure(unless i've become chemtarded all of a sudden), that it's a noble gas. I think you can buy 1kg cylinders for $10-15....

[Von Bass]

Originally Posted by wolfy_9005

You can buy tanks of argon for arc welding. Im almost sure(unless i've become chemtarded all of a sudden), that it's a noble gas. I think you can buy 1kg cylinders for $10-15....

Yeah argon is the ideal, IMO, and fairly easily acquired.

I like the sound of how available ergotamine is. It's just pretty damn obvious what your intentions are if you're ordering thousands of cafergot pills, and if it starts to pick up, that's the most obvious thing for an enterprising gentleman to watch should he or she wish to find the source.