Gender Roles in the West

[Dog]

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[Agent 008]

Nobody is *forcing* women to pursue a career in the West. Like nobody is forcing them to stay at home.

In fact, it seems now in the West nothing is *expected* of women - everything goes. Which I think is a good thing. Sure, many prefer to pursue their careers, and regret it later when they can hear their biological clocks ticking. Their decision, their responsibility.

Not sure if you've noticed, but common Russian married women seem to be generally unhappy. From my observations, anyway.

[Dog]

Originally Posted by Cloudcat

If Russia is a shithole, then why are you using their culture as an example...?

Are you suggesting that gender roles are tied to the country's political and economic problems?

I was pointing out an example of what I considered to be good gender relations, mentioning that it was a good thing in a country with a lot of problems. Is it really that hard for you to post something that isn't retarded?

Also, I don't think the whole feminist thing is as big a deal as you make it out to be.

Perhaps. That's why I'm interested in more opinions on it. I'm not, by the way, talking about straight-up feminists, but a feminist attitude that has become somewhat mainstream.

[Silverfuck]

I think that you would have to be an idiot to say that there are no differences between the sexes. I think that what feminism generally strives for is for men and women to be different, but equal; you don't have to have the same strengths to have an equal inherent value, and equal opportunities. I don't believe in any kind of affirmative action nonsense; the best person for a job should take it, and I think that people should always be judged by what they do rather than what chromosomes they have. If a woman is an anomaly and is totally rugged and fully capable of being a fireman, should she have to take a more 'feminine' job because a fireman is 'man's job?' I don't think so. Women are generally predisposed to be better at certain things, just as men are. I don't think its the differences that are a problem, it's trying to limit people based on their gender.

I have no issue with people who are into traditional gender roles. I just feel that everyone should have equal opportunities, and those who work hard and excel at what they do should be rewarded, regardless of gender.

[bigfoot]

50/50 custody of children

without that their is no equality

[SLIM]

The world should take a Saudi Arabian approach on attitudes towards women. There are no debates over who is the dominant and leading gender there. Women are no where near equal to men intelligence wise, logically or physically.

I agree with you on Russia, Ukraine is even better, the women there are much more affectionate and love cooking for their man, you still tend to get more Russian women who are more moody than Ukrainian women however.

should she have to take a more 'feminine' job because a fireman is 'man's job?

Yes, because first things first, look at the fucking name. Second of ll because they are illogical thinking human beings. I would not trust my life in the hands of a woman.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...icle701286.ece

Lawrence Summers, the President of Harvard, lost his job when he conjectured that women might not scale the same intellectual heights as men

[Dog]

Originally Posted by Cloudcat

You didn't explain how it was a good thing, though. Cite a source or something. But is it really that hard for you to post something without accusing everyone else of being retarded?

I may not have been clear or explicit: The main points were that 1) when women are too career-minded, they either regret not building a family, and/or they neglect their kids, and 2) the dying chivalry and lack of social agreements between men and women in the West makes gender relations needlessly confusing. The latter is something that you can see when you consider how odd the dating and courting system between young men and women is these days.

They already have the right to vote, they can get basically any job they want, they're free to leave the kitchen, etc. All they wanted was the general freedom that men have and they got it. What's the problem?

I'm not talking about rights. I'm talking about an attitude of "let's be just like men" that seems to be somewhat popular here (from my perspective).

[Syphilis]

Originally Posted by PizzaNazi

I find the recent (ie. since the 70s) trend of Western (particularly American and Canadian) women striving to be 100% equal to men rather alarming. Instead of embracing womanhood, they seem to focus so much on "equality" to the extent that they forget or deny that men and women aren't the same.

This. Women are different to men. Anyone who says they are 100% equal has not seen both a penis and a vagina.

[bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

This is why feminists then proclaiming their equality is hilarious. By identifying themselves with the feminine they inadvertently admit that they are bound by its premises, even while declaring them insignificant or superficial.

did you ever hear of a group of feminists demanding equal parenting rights?

if men can't be permitted by law to have an EQUAL interest in their own children, why should women be allowed any rights?

[LiquidIce]

I pretty much agree with OP. Hell, I'm just about 90km from the Ukrainian border and in Poland many women still seem to know their place. As the weaker sex that is, the sex that is biologically better at child rearing and worse at being a paramedic and all that jazz. However, I can see that in the last 10 years things have changed and now our women are getting to be more and more westernized . That is why my girlfriend appreciates all the chivalry and she acknowledges that I am better suited to carry he shopping/luggage while she's better suited to cook (she can taste more tastes then me, really) and much other stuff. But girls like her are getting more and more scarce thanks to your fucking western films and shit .

[Travis Bickle]

Just let women live how they want to live, if they feel they gotta always one up men let them. Don't bring em down man, that's not right.

[Silverfuck]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

I pretty much agree with OP. Hell, I'm just about 90km from the Ukrainian border and in Poland many women still seem to know their place. As the weaker sex that is, the sex that is biologically better at child rearing and worse at being a paramedic and all that jazz. However, I can see that in the last 10 years things have changed and now our women are getting to be more and more westernized . That is why my girlfriend appreciates all the chivalry and she acknowledges that I am better suited to carry he shopping/luggage while she's better suited to cook (she can taste more tastes then me, really) and much other stuff. But girls like her are getting more and more scarce thanks to your fucking western films and shit .

This is confusing to me. Are you saying that women, as a whole, should just be cooking and taking care of their men? It's cool if you are; you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the way you're saying it, it sounds as though you think women can't be good at other things, that a woman can't be a good paramedic, or whatever. I mean, what if a chick happens to be just as strong and able as a male paramedic? Should she not be allowed to do the job she's good at because she's a woman and it isn't her place?

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by Silverfuck

This is confusing to me. Are you saying that women, as a whole, should just be cooking and taking care of their men? It's cool if you are; you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the way you're saying it, it sounds as though you think women can't be good at other things, that a woman can't be a good paramedic, or whatever. I mean, what if a chick happens to be just as strong and able as a male paramedic? Should she not be allowed to do the job she's good at because she's a woman and it isn't her place?

Fun fact: the reason it is polite for men to stand up when a woman enters the room, is because back in the day, women were pretty much expected to faint at any moment. Therefore, men had to stand up to be able to catch her in case it happened.


I believe women should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want. But ideally, they would all be pretty and would simply not want to do the traditionally "manly" things.

It's kind of like Bakunin's "responsible" anarchy - where people follow the "laws" not because they would be punished if they don't, but out of their free will, because they know it's for the best. Unfortunately, such an idealistic society is not possible (although, in my opinion some quieter European countries come pretty close to this).

[Silverfuck]

Originally Posted by Agent 008

Fun fact: the reason it is polite for men to stand up when a woman enters the room, is because back in the day, women were pretty much expected to faint at any moment. Therefore, men had to stand up to be able to catch her in case it happened.

I believe women should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want. But ideally, they would all be pretty and would simply not want to do the traditionally "manly" things.

It's kind of like Bakunin's "responsible" anarchy - where people follow the "laws" not because they would be punished if they don't, but out of their free will, because they know it's for the best. Unfortunately, such an idealistic society is not possible (although, in my opinion some quieter European countries come pretty close to this).

Fun fact: a likely reason women were so prone to fainting was because they were fond of taking doses of arsenic to get that pretty lily-white complexion.

Anyways, I just think people should do that they want and not be bound by restrictive gender roles. If a chick wants to sit at home and be a housewife, and that works, that's cool. If a guy wants to stay home and raise the kids while the wife is at work, that's cool too. A chick should be able to be a brain surgeon or construction worker if she's qualified, and a man should be able to be a nurse or hairdresser should he have an aptitude for it. It seems silly to relegate half of the population to making pies and fainting.

[bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Silverfuck

Fun fact: a likely reason women were so prone to fainting was because they were fond of taking doses of arsenic to get that pretty lily-white complexion.

Anyways, I just think people should do that they want and not be bound by restrictive gender roles. If a chick wants to sit at home and be a housewife, and that works, that's cool. If a guy wants to stay home and raise the kids while the wife is at work, that's cool too. A chick should be able to be a brain surgeon or construction worker if she's qualified, and a man should be able to be a nurse or hairdresser should he have an aptitude for it. It seems silly to relegate half of the population to making pies and fainting.

fun fact: women also feinted cos of corsets

men don't have the right to equal custody of their children, so at the moment we live in an unequal society with a bias toward women, women can go to work AND have custody of the kids.

also what about the rights of children to have equal access to their parents?

[SLIM]

if a chick happens to be just as strong and able as a male paramedic

They're not; maybe it's because you're a woman that you fail to comprehend this. Jim is right, every single one of your posts makes me want to ram my fist up your ass and snatch out your tongue.

[DJ Meaty Cheeks]

[Mutant Funk Drink]

Originally Posted by brownfingerfuck

They're not; maybe it's because you're a woman that you fail to comprehend this. Jim is right, every single one of your posts makes me want to ram my fist up your ass and snatch out your tongue.

For the most part, women aren't going to be as physically strong as men. But obviously you haven't met many women if you think they're all weak. I used to know some really fuckin buff women who'd go out into the middle of the mohave desert and shoot up stuff. They were fucking huge and could probably rip you in two.

If a woman can qualify for a physically demanding job, she should be given that job. If she can't qualify, then too bad for her.

[Agent 008]

Originally Posted by Silverfuck

Fun fact: a likely reason women were so prone to fainting was because they were fond of taking doses of arsenic to get that pretty lily-white complexion.

Anyways, I just think people should do that they want and not be bound by restrictive gender roles. If a chick wants to sit at home and be a housewife, and that works, that's cool. If a guy wants to stay home and raise the kids while the wife is at work, that's cool too. A chick should be able to be a brain surgeon or construction worker if she's qualified, and a man should be able to be a nurse or hairdresser should he have an aptitude for it. It seems silly to relegate half of the population to making pies and fainting.

We won't really have an argument here, for we share pretty much the same views.

[T.K. Baha]

Originally Posted by Silverfuck

I think that you would have to be an idiot to say that there are no differences between the sexes. I think that what feminism generally strives for is for men and women to be different, but equal; you don't have to have the same strengths to have an equal inherent value, and equal opportunities. I don't believe in any kind of affirmative action nonsense; the best person for a job should take it, and I think that people should always be judged by what they do rather than what chromosomes they have. If a woman is an anomaly and is totally rugged and fully capable of being a fireman, should she have to take a more 'feminine' job because a fireman is 'man's job?' I don't think so. Women are generally predisposed to be better at certain things, just as men are. I don't think its the differences that are a problem, it's trying to limit people based on their gender.

I have no issue with people who are into traditional gender roles. I just feel that everyone should have equal opportunities, and those who work hard and excel at what they do should be rewarded, regardless of gender.

You sound like such a woman.

[Trix Are For Kids]

I think feminism is complete shit. There is no women's rights movement any more and women get almost the exact same as men. Then when they cry about not being able to do physical shit jobs like Army Infantry and Police work they say they don't have enough respect, when we try to protect them out of respect for them.

[superspeedz]

I treat everyone equally, which gives me the right to look down at those not on my level, man, woman, white, black, I don't care.

[bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Trix Are For Kids

I think feminism is complete shit. There is no women's rights movement any more and women get almost the exact same as men. Then when they cry about not being able to do physical shit jobs like Army Infantry and Police work they say they don't have enough respect, when we try to protect them out of respect for them.

but they don't, they get to go to work AND get custody of the kids, automatically.

thats not equal for any of the involved parties

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Silverfuck

This is confusing to me. Are you saying that women, as a whole, should just be cooking and taking care of their men? It's cool if you are; you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the way you're saying it, it sounds as though you think women can't be good at other things, that a woman can't be a good paramedic, or whatever. I mean, what if a chick happens to be just as strong and able as a male paramedic? Should she not be allowed to do the job she's good at because she's a woman and it isn't her place?

Uh, no, sorry if it came out wrong but no, I'm not a fan of 'in the kitchen, bitch', I'm pretty much against it, but I'm against being blind that men and women have different biological roles. Sure, if a women is strong enough then there's no harm in her being a paramedic, but I remember that I read an article that two women paramedics couldn't get an obese man with diabetes to the ambulance because they didn't have enough strength and had to call in a cop. That's what I'm getting it, the test for entry into police, fire dept., paramedics, army etc. should be the same, because THAT would finally be equal and the job would get done well. Not gender tests, but true skill/ability tests. It enrages me when I see a female police officer with arms skinnier than me, and I'm skinny enough. Or the quota stuff, that there HAS to be a certain percentage of women in a company or university or else it is deemed chauvinistic.

It's also very funny for me when I see all the women's rights activists making protests about some partly nude ad but they do SHIT about female circumcision in Africa.

So yeah, I hope I straightened things out. We want equal opportunity and a job well done, and that can't be achieved when women are supposed to do 5 pushups instead of 50 for men to get into some physically requiring job. Also: equal custody of kids, same retirement age and same medical care would be really, really nice.

[Silverfuck]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Uh, no, sorry if it came out wrong but no, I'm not a fan of 'in the kitchen, bitch', I'm pretty much against it, but I'm against being blind that men and women have different biological roles. Sure, if a women is strong enough then there's no harm in her being a paramedic, but I remember that I read an article that two women paramedics couldn't get an obese man with diabetes to the ambulance because they didn't have enough strength and had to call in a cop. That's what I'm getting it, the test for entry into police, fire dept., paramedics, army etc. should be the same, because THAT would finally be equal and the job would get done well. Not gender tests, but true skill/ability tests. It enrages me when I see a female police officer with arms skinnier than me, and I'm skinny enough. Or the quota stuff, that there HAS to be a certain percentage of women in a company or university or else it is deemed chauvinistic.

It's also very funny for me when I see all the women's rights activists making protests about some partly nude ad but they do SHIT about female circumcision in Africa.

So yeah, I hope I straightened things out. We want equal opportunity and a job well done, and that can't be achieved when women are supposed to do 5 pushups instead of 50 for men to get into some physically requiring job. Also: equal custody of kids, same retirement age and same medical care would be really, really nice.

That's perfectly reasonable; thanks for the explanation .

[Lao Tzu]

Feminism used to be about equal rights and being fairly represented. They [feminists] now seem to have gotten that - but the goals had to shift.

Now under the name of "equality" they try to make men second class citizens or say that women are superior in some way.

For example we have the disgusting Harriet Harman creature, a British MP who tells us that you can't trust men in government, and that certain jobs should be RESERVED for women.
This is a good example because we see a bunch of these "anti-equality" nu-feminists saying "right on, sis" and "I totally see what you mean", all of whom would throw a hissy fit and cry about sexism and inequality if a male MP had said it about females.

That's the modern feminist, and the kind I just don't want to hear about.

Furthermore, I think that men and women are fundamentally different in a number of ways, but that doesn't necessarily indicate superiority, we all have our strengths and weaknesses and almost anyone can reach any goal they set their mind on.

[earthsgone]

I don't think it's that much of a problem.

Although I do think that having a 5ft tall 100lb cop is dumb. You have to face that sometimes you're just not suited for the job.

[Phlegm!]

"Respect the cock. Tame the pussy."

Just kidding, I'm a proponent for women's rights and all, but it's just the feminists who irk me and get over their heads demanding work for women, when some of them can't meet the physical requirements. It's nothing personal, but the employers just want the best candidates possible to fulfill their job role, and want to keep fuck ups marginal to a minimum.