Can we reject God's influence?

[whocares123]

(assume i am talking about the judea-christian god here, and that he is real. the version of hell i will refer to is the popular one where it's all fire and you get raped and have ironic punishments and all that nonsense)

God demands worship and the following of his rules. that is the basic common premise, the different denominations just disagree on how to worship and what the finer points of the rules are. failure to do this is said to result in condemnation to hell and the lake of fire on judgment day blah blah blah.

what if we don't care?

what if you can become such a fucking....sociopath?...i know there's a better word for it, but you get what i mean. such a fucking sociopath that hearing you are going to hell for all of eternity will not sadden you in the least. so it is. oh well.

but god is omnipotent, and so certainly he can break anyone, right? but think of the prospect of being able to hold out against a fucking omnipotent being!!!! you, as nothing, the only one to ever honestly not give a shit as his demons or whatever unleash their worst on you in hell. as you experience terrifying psychological and perhaps physical pain and anguish. as you may be isolated for millions of earth years.

would a person not go insane in hell? and then the punishment would lose all value? or is it just for god's satisfaction? it matters not whether you truly suffer, as long as you have been put in your correct place.

and if a person does stay sane through the eternity in hell, perhaps through god's will is forced to, would they not simply adapt to the conditions and become used to the constant torture?

hell must be a horror that we are incapable of comprehending, otherwise i do not see the point of it. even if it is just the more moderate interpretation-absence from God-i see no threat, as to me that doesn't sound much different than life here on earth. and while horrible things happen here, it's all we know and it's not that bad.

[not me]

Certainly you can ignore God's influence. Or reject God. It is called "free will". What does it all mean ? What is the nature of Hell ? IDK. Maybe some smart person can explain it. I can't.

[chompchompchomsky]

Well, you'd assume that the entity that built being and nothingness could figure most anything out.

[L33tz]

Yea and some people think there isn't a hell. I don't know really. If Heaven is infinitely good then Hell is probably infinitely bad. But People who piss me off are people who say "oh i don't believe in hell" and then they go commit every fucking sin possible then go to church on what ever fucking day they go on. But if you don't believe in Hell because of a real reason and aren't just trying to reassure yourself you can do what ever you want, then I respect your decision.


But whats really pissing me off is this new age shit like in the movie "what the bleep do we know" where all these people say a bunch of random shit and try to throw out the window thousands of years of scriptures and teachings from all views.

[chompchompchomsky]

^Oh this!

[Strawberry Man]

Originally Posted by whocares123

(assume i am talking about the judea-christian god here, and that he is real. the version of hell i will refer to is the popular one where it's all fire and you get raped and have ironic punishments and all that nonsense)

God demands worship and the following of his rules. that is the basic common premise, the different denominations just disagree on how to worship and what the finer points of the rules are. failure to do this is said to result in condemnation to hell and the lake of fire on judgment day blah blah blah.

what if we don't care?

what if you can become such a fucking....sociopath?...i know there's a better word for it, but you get what i mean. such a fucking sociopath that hearing you are going to hell for all of eternity will not sadden you in the least. so it is. oh well.

but god is omnipotent, and so certainly he can break anyone, right? but think of the prospect of being able to hold out against a fucking omnipotent being!!!! you, as nothing, the only one to ever honestly not give a shit as his demons or whatever unleash their worst on you in hell. as you experience terrifying psychological and perhaps physical pain and anguish. as you may be isolated for millions of earth years.

would a person not go insane in hell? and then the punishment would lose all value? or is it just for god's satisfaction? it matters not whether you truly suffer, as long as you have been put in your correct place.

and if a person does stay sane through the eternity in hell, perhaps through god's will is forced to, would they not simply adapt to the conditions and become used to the constant torture?

hell must be a horror that we are incapable of comprehending, otherwise i do not see the point of it. even if it is just the more moderate interpretation-absence from God-i see no threat, as to me that doesn't sound much different than life here on earth. and while horrible things happen here, it's all we know and it's not that bad.

Ok listen.

Does God Exist? Sure, If you look for evidence, you'll find it.

Does God NOT Exist, Sure, If you look for evidence you'll find that too.

Is hell a horror that we are incapable of comprehending...OH FUCK YES! I remember having seen a demon before, think the scariest monster from resident evil, now times that by 1,000,000,000,000,000,000+

That's what "evil" I saw, although I'd say it was just my own psychological junk coming out in the form of a hallucination right before bed.

I know what you mean by being able to "out do" God's influence, it's an ego trip but all you're doing is outdoing you're own beliefs that God is trying to influence you. So beating yourself is not being something omnipotent, just human.

Look, religion and God and all that was created for us to have a conscience and not fuck everything up so quickly, to keep us chill and scared because without the fear of Hell, life would be the closest thing to it.

[Akagi]

I don't believe in the hell. Not the hell of ancient past, not the modern hell described in the OP, and not any of the variants that lie between, because they are all human constructs.

I recommend checking out "The History of Hell" by Alice K. Turner if you are one of those unfortunate people still gullible enough to believe in such a thing and still have the weight of that propaganda suppressing you from thinking & acting freely.

Hell is psychological terrorism. It's a last-ditch desperate gambit trying to retain your mind from leaving the collective. Hell is the chains that bind the weak. Once you realize that it's pure fantasy, it holds no more power over you.

Besides, who would follow a being that would design such a suffering pit and create a policy of humans inheriting it for not believing in a specific religion? It's thoughtcrime. You're being damned for nothing more than what you believed to be most likely upon your death. A God that would operate like that is worse than anything George Orwell described in "1984". That makes Big Brother seem like a nice guy in comparison.

With so many religions in the world and zero empirical evidence for any of their validity, the wrong path would no more be man's fault than god's. For the creator to then damn the creation in such an environment of confusion & ambiguity would reveal a being akin to the demiurge of the gnostics - a flawed god.

A flawed god is no god, and those who worship that flawed god would soon find their heaven a hell, and desire the oblivion of non-existence over the blindness of injustice.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Akagi

I don't believe in the hell. Not the hell of ancient past, not the modern hell described in the OP, and not any of the variants that lie between, because they are all human constructs.

I recommend checking out "The History of Hell" by Alice K. Turner if you are one of those unfortunate people still gullible enough to believe in such a thing and still have the weight of that propaganda suppressing you from thinking & acting freely.

Do you think the thought of Hell is suppressing me? The government is trying to control me through Hell? No. and fuck the media and fuck these corrupt bastards in power.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Akagi

I don't believe in the hell. Not the hell of ancient past, not the modern hell described in the OP, and not any of the variants that lie between, because they are all human constructs.

I recommend checking out "The History of Hell" by Alice K. Turner if you are one of those unfortunate people still gullible enough to believe in such a thing and still have the weight of that propaganda suppressing you from thinking & acting freely.

Hell is psychological terrorism. It's a last-ditch desperate gambit trying to retain your mind from leaving the collective. Hell is the chains that bind the weak. Once you realize that it's pure fantasy, it holds no more power over you.

Besides, who would follow a being that would design such a suffering pit and create a policy of humans inheriting it for not believing in a specific religion? It's thoughtcrime. You're being damned for nothing more than what you believed to be most likely upon your death. A God that would operate like that is worse than anything George Orwell described in "1984". That makes Big Brother seem like a nice guy in comparison.

With so many religions in the world and zero empirical evidence for any of their validity, the wrong path would no more be man's fault than god's. For the creator to then damn the creation in such an environment of confusion & ambiguity would reveal a being akin to the demiurge of the gnostics - a flawed god.

A flawed god is no god, and those who worship that flawed god would soon find their heaven a hell, and desire the oblivion of non-existence over the blindness of injustice.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[chompchompchomsky]

Originally Posted by L33tz

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

fap fap fap

[Akagi]

Originally Posted by L33tz

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

It's not falsely though, because there is no hell.

And if there is, I'm not going to crumble to terrorist threats, denounce thoughtcrime, and start worshipping Big brother and subscribe to Ingsoc.

So in either case, I have no regrets.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Akagi

I don't believe in the hell. Not the hell of ancient past, not the modern hell described in the OP, and not any of the variants that lie between, because they are all human constructs.

I recommend checking out "The History of Hell" by Alice K. Turner if you are one of those unfortunate people still gullible enough to believe in such a thing and still have the weight of that propaganda suppressing you from thinking & acting freely.

Hell is psychological terrorism. It's a last-ditch desperate gambit trying to retain your mind from leaving the collective. Hell is the chains that bind the weak. Once you realize that it's pure fantasy, it holds no more power over you.

Besides, who would follow a being that would design such a suffering pit and create a policy of humans inheriting it for not believing in a specific religion? It's thoughtcrime. You're being damned for nothing more than what you believed to be most likely upon your death. A God that would operate like that is worse than anything George Orwell described in "1984". That makes Big Brother seem like a nice guy in comparison.

With so many religions in the world and zero empirical evidence for any of their validity, the wrong path would no more be man's fault than god's. For the creator to then damn the creation in such an environment of confusion & ambiguity would reveal a being akin to the demiurge of the gnostics - a flawed god.

A flawed god is no god, and those who worship that flawed god would soon find their heaven a hell, and desire the oblivion of non-existence over the blindness of injustice.

Damn well said.

It's funny how people imagine places and then set up rules that will send them to those imaginary places and then they constantly break those rules and have to say sorry to their imaginary custodian of that imaginary place.

Damnit, I prefer going to middle earth, so I guess that's my heaven/hell of choice. If some one disrespects my faith than I can sue him . Yay religion!

[whocares123]

yeahhh this is not going the way i had planned. you guys are not taking on my assumptions for the sake of discussion and are too busy talking about how hell isn't real. i don't believe in hell, i'm not a christian. it's irrelevant.

akagi, i put out several hell scenarios in my OP, so you saying you don't believe in the one described there just tells me you didn't really read my post. god damnit.

this is not about fucking atheism or agnosticism. this is about the idea of punishment for "sins." is it even possible, when one sits down and thinks about it, for an omnipotent being to inflict an eternity of punishment on a man? are we not so fickle as to lose sanity and hope and forget what those two things mean, making the punishment not even seem unpleasant? or is it just for God's own pleasure?

the only thing we have to compare it to is punishment on earth. people sent to prison become institutionalized. could you become institutionalized after being sent to hell?

[Akagi]

Originally Posted by whocares123

akagi, i put out several hell scenarios in my OP, so you saying you don't believe in the one described there just tells me you didn't really read my post. god damnit.

I read it, just got a little sidetracked.

this is not about fucking atheism or agnosticism. this is about the idea of punishment for "sins." is it even possible, when one sits down and thinks about it, for an omnipotent being to inflict an eternity of punishment on a man? are we not so fickle as to lose sanity and hope and forget what those two things mean, making the punishment not even seem unpleasant? or is it just for God's own pleasure?

Well, you have to take into account that you lose all ability to perceive time and pain after the death of your brain and body, so unless God is an extra special asshole and gives you supernatural pain receptors as a parting gift and wipes your mind at regular intervals to prevent you from building up a resistance to the perpetual torture which serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever, then you wouldn't feel or perceive anything.

...the only thing we have to compare it to is punishment on earth. people sent to prison become institutionalized. could you become institutionalized after being sent to hell?

Depends on how many properties god assigns to your incorporeal form for the sole purpose of fucking you over. I'd imagine that you would become numb to it at least mentally over time, hence the need for occasional mind-wipes to stoke the flames and perpetuate the suffering train.

[ArmsMerchant]

Hell is a myth--there is no such place. Atheists and assorted heretics and apostates have been saying this for years, but the Catholic Church finally got on board--that is, in 1999, during a private audience at the Vatican, Pope John Paul II conceded that hell is not a location, but a state of mind in which we place ourselves when we try to separate ourselves from God.

Thing is, you can't do this really, since "the kingdom of God is within you." Heaven is realizing this, and experiencing the joy and power and freedom that is your birthright.

[Firemind]

Originally Posted by whocares123

(assume i am talking about the judea-christian god here, and that he is real. the version of hell i will refer to is the popular one where it's all fire and you get raped and have ironic punishments and all that nonsense)

God demands worship and the following of his rules. that is the basic common premise, the different denominations just disagree on how to worship and what the finer points of the rules are. failure to do this is said to result in condemnation to hell and the lake of fire on judgment day blah blah blah.

what if we don't care?

what if you can become such a fucking....sociopath?...i know there's a better word for it, but you get what i mean. such a fucking sociopath that hearing you are going to hell for all of eternity will not sadden you in the least. so it is. oh well.

but god is omnipotent, and so certainly he can break anyone, right? but think of the prospect of being able to hold out against a fucking omnipotent being!!!! you, as nothing, the only one to ever honestly not give a shit as his demons or whatever unleash their worst on you in hell. as you experience terrifying psychological and perhaps physical pain and anguish. as you may be isolated for millions of earth years.

would a person not go insane in hell? and then the punishment would lose all value? or is it just for god's satisfaction? it matters not whether you truly suffer, as long as you have been put in your correct place.

and if a person does stay sane through the eternity in hell, perhaps through god's will is forced to, would they not simply adapt to the conditions and become used to the constant torture?

hell must be a horror that we are incapable of comprehending, otherwise i do not see the point of it. even if it is just the more moderate interpretation-absence from God-i see no threat, as to me that doesn't sound much different than life here on earth. and while horrible things happen here, it's all we know and it's not that bad.

Well, here I will try to reveal the truth. Hell is not a place and does not exist. God will not waste his time on his uncooperative creations. He'll just make us not exist. Fuck us! We don't deserve to exist if we can only ignore our original function. Why would God make us suffer? We had that while we we're here and still didn't learn shit. So the only alternative is not "Hell", but what you could say... a finality.

Heaven as well, does not exist, only as hope. Merit for your "positive" earthly actions. Those who God does not end will be assimilated in to "it." God is not a being. "He" is limitless to establish God as "something" that can be fathomed. You'll just end up disrespecting him.
And Akagi is somewhat reminiscent of the "sociopath" attitude you speak of.
This is a bit of a rant, but I cannot get much deeper.

[0omnidirectional]

Originally Posted by whocares123

(assume i am talking about the judea-christian god here, and that he is real. the version of hell i will refer to is the popular one where it's all fire and you get raped and have ironic punishments and all that nonsense)

God demands worship and the following of his rules. that is the basic common premise, the different denominations just disagree on how to worship and what the finer points of the rules are. failure to do this is said to result in condemnation to hell and the lake of fire on judgment day blah blah blah.

what if we don't care?

A worshiper of neither the creation nor the Creator?
You are neither a Satanist, nor are you a Christian.
I think that plane is called limbo, though I don't really know what I'm talking aout.

[ArmsMerchant]

"God demands worship"

Actually, God neither wants nor requires nor demands anything. Only false gods make demands.

For details, see What God Wants by Neale DOnald Walsch.

[Firemind]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

"God demands worship"

Actually, God neither wants nor requires nor demands anything. Only false gods make demands.

For details, see What God Wants by Neale DOnald Walsch.

Or just look at every other living thing! Look, man they have no problems unless we make them.

[LiquidIce]

Man, I lost count of how many gods popped up in this thread. So far Greyfox's god seems to be pretty humanistic, I'll name him Bob. Firemind's god seems a bit of a jerk, but hey, he's all powerful. Randy's a good name for him I reckon.

And that's just the start of the list...

[Firemind]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Man, I lost count of how many gods popped up in this thread. So far Greyfox's god seems to be pretty humanistic, I'll name him Bob. Firemind's god seems a bit of a jerk, but hey, he's all powerful. Randy's a good name for him I reckon.

And that's just the start of the list...

Fuck you. I don't have a God.

[Rizzo in a box]

quick, get me some God IV, stat!

[Ambient]

Yes.

[Lord hang man]

No Jah wishes everyone die and live forever at peace in both battling all creation.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Akagi

It's not falsely though, because there is no hell.

And if there is, I'm not going to crumble to terrorist threats, denounce thoughtcrime, and start worshipping Big brother and subscribe to Ingsoc.

So in either case, I have no regrets.

Yea what do you think my signature means.

[Akagi]

An implication that the Islamic god is more powerful than the false messiah who will be blind in one eye.

[LiquidIce]

An implication that some desert-dwelling rapists fantasized about prophecy?

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

An implication that some desert-dwelling rapists fantasized about prophecy?

How insincere.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Killallthewhiteman420

How insincere.

Well sorry, but it's hard to believe in all the fancy self-fulfilling prophecies. Either all the prophets are dead or the real prophets are washed away by greedy son's a' bitches. Or maybe I'm just damn tired.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Akagi

An implication that the Islamic god is more powerful than the false messiah who will be blind in one eye.

yea i don't bow down to big brother. And there is no islamic god there is only God.

[Akagi]

There can only be none.

[L33tz]

Originally Posted by Akagi

There can only be none.

naw i disagree

[nshanin]

Can you reject love? Sure, but not only is it less pleasing, it's simply exhausting!

[west]

Originally Posted by whocares123

(assume i am talking about the judea-christian god here, and that he is real. the version of hell i will refer to is the popular one where it's all fire and you get raped and have ironic punishments and all that nonsense)

Thread failed

[Headspin]

Look at all this energy these beliefs create:

Paranoia, fear, confusion. Do you want to invest your time into these feelings and thoughts, or do you want to draw your own conclusions?

[ArmsMerchant]

Originally Posted by whocares123

(assume i am talking about the judea-christian god here, and that he is real. the version of hell i will refer to is the popular one where it's all fire and you get raped and have ironic punishments and all that nonsense)

.

There is really no such thing as a Judeo-Christian god--there are many different versions of God offered in many Jewish or Christian sects.

And even Pope John Paul II knew there was no such place as hell.

I fail to see any merit in debating what is obviously fallacious.

[whocares123]

heh, i forgot i ever made this thread.

i still wonder about the basic question surrounding my original post. basically, i was asking how bad is hell? based on experiences in life, it seems like you get used to anything after so long. at first it can be a real shock and you think fuck how can i keep doing this, but everyone adapts if you stick it out long enough. so to me it just seems like someone would adapt to hell also, making the threat of going there if you don't do this-or-that less meaningful.

[ysr2096]

Originally Posted by whocares123

heh, i forgot i ever made this thread.

i still wonder about the basic question surrounding my original post. basically, i was asking how bad is hell? based on experiences in life, it seems like you get used to anything after so long. at first it can be a real shock and you think fuck how can i keep doing this, but everyone adapts if you stick it out long enough. so to me it just seems like someone would adapt to hell also, making the threat of going there if you don't do this-or-that less meaningful.

Inconceivably bad, presumably. If you could conceive of the tortures inflicted in hell, you could conceive of worse torture. You could one-up God, in other words. That would make God look like a pussy, and I don't think he'd be having that.

[is all mememememe with me]

well if god wanted me to worship him and follow certain rules throughout my life then he should have fucking said so at the beginning. he didnt so im assuming that this god shit is just shit made up by men. i mean all these holy books and shit are all written on paper and in ink, thats a pretty sure sign that they were written by men to me.

and man being the most lying and deceitful species on the planet and all....

[nutsack]

You can easily reject the influence of ideas by not believing them to have any merit