The Meaning of the 2nd Amendment

[puzld]

This could just as well be in politics.

I am not well read in the history of America nor on the views of the Founders. But I will guess that in America circa 1789, self defense was seen as a natural right; if you lived on the frontier and were attacked by a bear or a fellow frontiersman drunk on too much whisky, you would not hesitate to use deadly force in self defense if necessary.

What does the second amendment say?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I'm not a historian, but I am proficient in English, and the subject of the second amendment is the Militia. Yes, you have a personal right to keep and bear arms, but the primary reason (and perhaps duty) for doing so is to support the Militia.

The true purpose of the second amendment is not to guarantee your right to personal self-defense, but to ensure the security of our Republic.

[Random_Looney]

This includes against itself. Firearms were needed for the Revolutionary war, and in the Oath of Officer one is required to be sworn to uphold the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic.

I could give you a ton of historical quotes on the Second Amendment. Reading up on Heller v. DC would be good too.

[Carbonbased]

Originally Posted by puzld

The true purpose of the second amendment is not to guarantee your right to self-defense, but to ensure the security of our Republic.

I think that it would be more appropriate to say "to ensure the security of the ideals upon witch the republic was founded."

And why if self defense was a natural right back in 1789, is it any different today? If your or the life of a love one was in imminent danger of attack, would you not use force to immediately end the confrentation?

I will however say that seeing more organized local militia would be a nice thing because it would show that people are still willing to stand up and defend them selves from whatever. The down side to this of course is the danger that militias radicalize or become racist.

You're right on your last point as well, the second amendment does not guarantee your right to self defense, it only deals with "arms". The right to self defense IMO is an extension of the right to life, and that my friend is a natural right.

Thoughts?

[LavaRed]

I usually attempt to make informative posts and to avoid stepping on any toes.
However on this one I'll give it to you guys in one shot. With the bark on:

Only an idiot would deny the individual right to self defense. It comes with the instinct of self preservation. Its a natural order.

And for the people who will tell me that we must evolve into our civilized society, I have this to say:
Is it not an act of self-defense to wear safety gear in the workplace as much as carrying the gear necessary to fend off a crook?

/rant

[reggie_love]

I always viewed it as "we're going to arm everyone to make sure our society stays safe yet free".

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Originally Posted by puzld

What does the second amendment say?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I'm not a historian, but I am proficient in English, and the subject of the second amendment is the Militia. Yes, you have a personal right to keep and bear arms, but the primary reason (and perhaps duty) for doing so is to support the Militia.

If you have to ask, then you don't really deserve to carry a gun, this is how things got as bad as they are today. You need to not only know the answer, but belligerently oppose any such restriction to any constitutional right (or not applicable if you're not an American).

Lucky for you I'm feeling charitable today.

The 2A has nothing to do with hunting or target shooting, or ensuring the right of the armed forces to have weapons, we've gone over this already. This is commonly acknowledged in our circles, and it's a message we're trying to propogate as much as possible. The 2A is about protecting onesself from government abuse, as a last resort to the democratic process.

[AnalHerpes]

I thought I posted this already but I guess I accidently hit the Preview Post button but anyways; an armed society is actually the mark of an advanced society. Most backwards countries technically forbade or put serious restrictions on owning weapons (whether they can enforce these laws is another matter). Countries like Europe that are in the process of stripping away gun rights (England comes to mind) are also losing a lot of other civil liberties as well and in general degenerating into a nanny state. Is it a sign that armed citizens strike fear into the heart of governments? In a totalitarian government yes, but in Europe I think it's just an indicator that the people don't really care about their rights so once the government caught on they just started whittling away the rest of their rights.

[freeRadical]

You, like most of the American people, misread that fucking amendment all the time. If I could go back in time, I would fucking bitch slap our founding fathers and make them right that fucking amendment clearer. You have to break that sentence down because it's a bunch of different sentences connected by commas. The placement of the commas is important. It is basically two different sentence.

"A well regulated Militia, necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The first sentence is:
A well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free state.

The second sentence is:
The right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Simple, no?

Oh, on another note, people get the whole militia thing confused too. The militia, in regards to the one referred in the Second Amendment, is not the army nor the national guard. The militia is the organized, armed citizens of the each individual state.

[ArmsMerchant]

Personally, I take the Second Amendment rather literally, as do (I think) the framers of zillions of laws which abridge and limit the legality of gun ownership and gun carry.

For instance, in Alaska, I may legally carry a concealed pistol w/o a carry license into a library or liquor store, but not a bar or a bank. But heck--I carried concealed when it was not legal to do so.

[puzld]

I think some people misconstrued my original post. I was only saying that the most important reason to be armed is to protect ourselves from tyranny, and that I think the Founders realized this, and that is the reason why the 2nd amendment refers to the Militia (which is just an armed citizenry).

"If you are known as maybe a possible terrorist, you cannot buy a handgun in America.. if you're on that no fly list, your access to the right to bear arms is CANCELLED, you're not part of the American Family - you don't deserve that right." -- Rahm Emanuel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an8Moh3xuUs

[Carbonbased]

Holy shit, thanks for posting that. Well I'll be the first to say that, the video was a little fucking scary. What i mean is that the government suddenly can say "you're on a list for having subversive thoughts no guns for you!" Now granted that they can't do that now it's bothersome that they want to do it at all!

Jesus It makes me wonder what it takes to get on the "no fly list" I mean if they just need to think that your "maybe a possible terrorist" that could be every fucking person on this site

[ilovechronic]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Personally, I take the Second Amendment rather literally, as do (I think) the framers of zillions of laws which abridge and limit the legality of gun ownership and gun carry.

For instance, in Alaska, I may legally carry a concealed pistol w/o a carry license into a library or liquor store, but not a bar or a bank. But heck--I carried concealed when it was not legal to do so.

"The Alaska State Legislature recently passed new language in the law requiring a Permit to Carry a Concealed Weapon (AS 18.65.700"

I think it applies to anchorage. not sure.

[Freelance Tax Collector]

Here's something we can all be proud of: HR 2640 NICS improvement act of 2007. A.K.A the Veterans disarmament act. It stipulates that veterans diagnosed with PTSD will be unable to purchase firearms on grounds of mental health concerns.

I've just about had it with these people.

[ArmsMerchant]

Originally Posted by ilovechronic

"The Alaska State Legislature recently passed new language in the law requiring a Permit to Carry a Concealed Weapon (AS 18.65.700"

I think it applies to anchorage. not sure.

Yeah, non-ccl in Anchorage is a no-no--ironically, the only time I go there is to work a gun show.

[023]

Originally Posted by puzld

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Held:
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

Official dissertation:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

[puzld]

Originally Posted by 023

Held:
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

Official dissertation:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Thanks for posting that. Here's another quote:

"The right protected by the Second Amendment is not absolute, but instead is subject to government regulation."

And this of course would be the basis for Obama's "common sense" gun laws.

If the economy gets worse (which it will), we are going to see a dramatic increase in gun crimes, murder-suicides, random Va. Tech-style nuts, etc., and this will provide all the stimulus the Obama administration will need to give us some of his common sense. I predict there will be a reinstatement of the AWB, and perhaps a federal ban on .50 BMG rifles & ammo.

Also, the Supreme Court is not always right.

[freeRadical]

Originally Posted by puzld

Thanks for posting that. Here's another quote:

"The right protected by the Second Amendment is not absolute, but instead is subject to government regulation."

And this of course would be the basis for Obama's "common sense" gun laws.

If the economy gets worse (which it will), we are going to see a dramatic increase in gun crimes, murder-suicides, random Va. Tech-style nuts, etc., and this will provide all the stimulus the Obama administration will need to give us some of his common sense. I predict there will be a reinstatement of the AWB, and perhaps a federal ban on .50 BMG rifles & ammo.

Also, the Supreme Court is not always right.

Actually, the Constitution is absolute. At least, the founders meant for it to be. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the federal government has the right to limit the possession or use of firearms.

Long but good read:
http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm

[Struwwelpeter]

It means jack shit these days.

[crackhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYyHNgeFA8

[Reyin]

My thoughts are, the 2nd amendment should be taken exactly as it is written.

Puzld pretty much hit the nail on the head in his earlier post.
To quote V for Vendetta, "People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." Cheesy to quote a movie I know, but it has a ring of truth. It is the moral obligation of the citizens of a country to keep their government in check.

[ArmsMerchant]

It might be worth noting that Alaska has the highest death rate in the country due to negligent discharge of a firearm.

[Random_Looney]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

It might be worth noting that Alaska has the highest death rate in the country due to negligent discharge of a firearm.

Why? Also, may I ask where you got your statistics and if they are per capita or square foot, etc?

[crackhead]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Im a hippy faggot who doesn't like guns because my hero Sarah Brady and Hillary Clinton said they were bad.

You dont say?

[Shulgin]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

It might be worth noting that Alaska has the highest death rate in the country due to negligent discharge of a firearm.

Sounds like anti-gun propaganda to me. Don't you sell guns?

[Struwwelpeter]

Guys, let's keep something in mind. Greyfox is first and foremost, a pedophile. He voted for Obama because he feels he will repeal the patriot act (even though he voted for it) as he puts his rights as a pedophile before his rights as a "gun owner". Nonetheless he often differentiates between libertarian anarchistic socialist and patchouli-oil peddling communist faggot. Whatever gets him a little attention at the time.

[Helladamnleet]

Yeah, they pointed this out in 8th grade.

[The English Gentleman]

It's the right to 'bear arms'

[ZX9R]

The Meaning of the 2nd Amendment.

The meaning is quite simple.

It is the right to max out our credit cards and spend our entire paychecks (our hard earned money) on guns...

Lots of guns.




I wouldn't dare dictate how you should spend your earnings.

Let me spend my money how I please.