Arson thread

[SLIM]

I know there are threads on arson already but they're a mess and full of shit so I'm starting a new one which hopefully gains better and more informative discussion. I'd be great if some people from Backyard Ballistics (as we truly know it) could share some knowledge and wisdom in here.

I'm also interested in this subject because I hope to become a firefighter in the airforce sometime mid-2010 or even earlier if possible.

The point to arson is for mass damage to property or murder, some scallies even commit it to claim insurance (although insurance inquiries are made when the investigation is made).

Now before I begin I'd like to share this link with you because it revealed something very interesting to me when I read it.

Four experiments were conducted.
Two replicate experiments were ignited
with a small flame on upholstered
chair. (In replicate experiments, identical
scenarios are run more than once
to demonstrate the repeatability of the
results.) The other two experiments
used a 0.95-liter (1-quart) spill of gasoline
on the floor of the room as the
first item ignited.
In both of the first two experiments
(un-accelerated ignition), flashover
occurred at approximately 5 minutes, 40
seconds. The experiments that used
gasoline ignition reached flashover at
approximately 1 minute, 15 seconds. In
all of the experiments, fire suppression
was started approximately 3 minutes
after flashover began.
The temperature and heat flux time
were measured for each experiment
and are provided in the
report. In two of the experiments,
oxygen, carbon dioxide
and carbon monoxide
were also measured. In addition,
the rooms and furnishings
were studied and photographed
after each
experiment. Comparisons
between the replicate experiments
yielded many similarities
in the data, the burn patterns
and the condition of
articles in the burn rooms,
such as “pulled” light bulbs.
(The evidence suggests that
light bulbs pull in the direction
of the greatest heat, but
not necessarily toward the
fire’s origin.)
Unfortunately for investigators,
the replicate experiments
also produced some significant
differences in the severity
of burning, locations of patterns
and types of patterns
present. For example, with the
exception of the burn patterns
on the wall above the upholstered
chair, the walls yielded
significantly different patterns.
Fire patterns, therefore,
may not be such reliable indicators
as many fire investigators
believe.

As in the usfa research,
ventilation seems to be the
prime cause of the difference
in fire behavior within the rooms that
led to the different burn patterns.
Based on the results of these studies,
further research has been started to
decouple the phenomena that occur
in full-scale room fires and gain a better
understanding of fire pattern
development.

I won't quote it all but the whole document is a very good read as to what is actually investigated.

The patterns mentioned are something to take into great consideration. I'll just use a quick example of a molotov cocktail; when you've molotov'd everything it leaves large and spread burn marks so the investigation will easily be able to tell it wasn't an accident and will start investigating. They will know a molotov has been used.
The bonus to this is they're easy to make on a strict time schedule and close by to the area you intend to set on fire and they can also be improvised to make a larger flame and cause more damage quickly. These different variation including use of so called napalm can be found all over the net.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail
Check this for more detail about examples of molotovs.

Here is yet another link concerning arson investigation which goes into more detail and is longer. Give it a read when you have the time.
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181584.pdf

You need to take into consideration of the witnesses before and after the arson. CCTV in the local areas and routes on the way to the scene should also be taken into consideration; alternative routes away from CCTV or a minimum of CCTV should be taken. Witnesses and footage are probably the most relied on in an investigation, no matter what the crime is.


However, in some cases Arson is used not only for mass killings, but to just down right make a statement. It's been used against churches, apartments where non-whites are; it's mainly used for propaganda reasons and in some cases wanted to be known this is the case by forensics.

since arson is the leading cause of most fires throughout the USA and many other countries this is the first primary question that is asked when investigating, if it was an arson attack or not.

If you are under the age of 18 you are more likely to be a suspect linked to the arson because the statistics show that majority of the arsonists are under the age of 18.
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v1i8-508.pdf
http://searchwarp.com/swa318089.htm

you're more likely to be caught as well since you fit the typical profile. Kids shouldn't play with fire



Now we'll move onto what is actually so dangerous about fire and the main cause of killing people.

Smoke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_inhalation

Smoke rises, in 9/11 the people on the higher floors started suffocating so they jumped out the windows and still died. Not all windows are easily smashed these days so killing a bunch of people would prove too easy.

Smoke rises because hot air is less dense than cold air and rises when it's displaced by the cold air. It doesn't always rise and can stay close to the floor, it depends on ventilation and such other points.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convection_currents

Because fires burn upwards and with the example of the smoke in 9/11 they should be set on the lower levels. To ensure more deaths and casualties all exits must be obstructed or a fire started there as well. Don't just set fire to one room and be an the look out for flammable fluids and materials to start a fire around to help the fire spread. Liquor, cooking oils, cookers/stoves, fuel containers and wooden furniture like tables. In appartment complexes and blocks of flats the exits are locked majority of the time to stop people from sneaking in without paying and to prevent homos from getting in. Tabs must be kept on how organized and sharp the security of the property is, if there is any at all. When I say all exits should be taken out, lifts should be disabled or set ablaze inside before hand to avoid escape.

1 part motor oil and 1 part petrol makes a hell of a lot of smoke, I use this in my molotovs that I've made in the past and they make a lot of smoke.

The arson isn't the hard part, getting away is the hardest. Since the investigators can easily determine what fluids were used you should be careful of how you go about getting your tools.
Petrol can be siphoned easily. A popular place to get some diesel is at the bus depot, make sure there are no cameras around and no witnesses. Like with any other crime, don't wear your everyday clothing that can be matched to your character and be sure to wear sterile clothing and to dispose of it afterwards, including all tools used to commit the arson. You don't want to be caught in possession of any accelerants IF questioned, it will be a lot harder for you to explain yourself.


I'm hoping I can get some more discussion going and more idea concerning arson; for now here are some more links of interest.
http://www.crimeandclues.com/arson.htm
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ist.html?cat=9
http://www.interfire.org/res_file/menu_bf.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_Fir...rch_Laboratory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_investigation

As well as the other links used earlier in this post.

THIS IS NOT A GUIDE, HOPEFULLY WITH ENOUGH DISCUSSION ONE CAN BE CREATED

[JREwing]

Don't forget the classic ELF guide to electronic arson:
http://media.portland.indymedia.org/.../09/271507.pdf

It shows how to make a detonator out of anything that makes a noise, a mobile phone for instance.

[SLIM]

It should go without saying that any type of Electrical power generators which can be destroyed or disabled should be attacked with incendiary devices.

Funny only the shit threads get loads of posts and shitty contributions.

[el drewto]

For covert arson, one should use those delayed response molotov cocktails. You know, the ones with a cigarette on the fuse. They're in "steal this book". I'll see if I can dig up a picture.

[SLIM]

Bump.

I was thinking about fires started by cigarettes which haven't been discarded properly.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tte_fires.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/26/us...cigarette.html

How would one be able to efficiently light the cigarette and be able to keep it lit? You don't want to have the cig anywhere near your own mouth. If we can have a mini vacuum or something to keep it burning then you could effectively start a small house fire. If the occupants of the house are smokers themselves then it may be dismissed as arson (depending on your way of entry to the property and if there's any signs of B&E).

Any suggestions about this?

[ysr2096]

Originally Posted by slim-0v-derby

Bump.

I was thinking about fires started by cigarettes which haven't been discarded properly.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tte_fires.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/26/us...cigarette.html

How would one be able to efficiently light the cigarette and be able to keep it lit?

How about packing the ciggarette with something with a longer burn time than tobacco? Keeping it near a source of oxygen would help, and allow it to spread easier.

If we can have a mini vacuum or something to keep it burning then you could effectively start a small house fire.

How would a vacuum keep it lit, lol?

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by ysr2096

How about packing the ciggarette with something with a longer burn time than tobacco? Keeping it near a source of oxygen would help, and allow it to spread easier.



How would a vacuum keep it lit, lol?

I didn't mean like a vacuum cleaner, I meant the scientific term to pull the smoke somehow.

I know you can keep a longer ash by having a straightened out paper clip inside it and pushed into the filter a little bit, because I used to have bets with my friends at school and cheated with this method. They never found out until I told them. It's just about keeping it lit.

Interestingly enough I came across this

Almost any reasonably dried, shredded lightly compacted cellulostic will
sustainedly smolder - tobacco, hay, corn silk, marijuana, incense/punk, cow
dung, cotton upholstery, wadded paper towel. Sphagnum swamps during
droughts are incredibly hazardous. The trick is to keep the cigarrette
smoldering without it going up in flames or going out.

Surface to volume ratio is important here. A thin cylinder rapidly loses
heat and so never exponentiates into full flame. Potassium nitrate is
often added to cigarettes to keep them lit. There are at least 599
additives FDA-approved for addition to tobacco products. The text file is
93K long, 20K ZIPped, http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/tobacco.zip

Stored hay - big round piles! - has a nasty habit of sponteously
combusting. Minerals in the burning hay get hot enough to melt into glass
(clinker), which serves as a diagnostic for what burned, how hot, and puts
loose limits on arson ("insurance fires").

Would it be able to be picked up on if additional potassium nitrate was added?

[Bakayar]

Potassium nitrate is very easy to detect as detection methods have kind of evolved around it. because if you want something to burn -not really but its the most commonly used combustable substence- you need peter salt.

[ysr2096]

Originally Posted by slim-0v-derby

I didn't mean like a vacuum cleaner, I meant the scientific term to pull the smoke somehow.

You can't have a fire in a vacuum, yo.

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by ysr2096

You can't have a fire in a vacuum, yo.

The vacuum is for the suction, I'm not talking about having the cig INSIDE the vacuum, just linked up so it still gets suction and carries on burning. Cigs these days go out a lot easier when they're not being smoked so you'd need to keep the cig burning for you to get close to starting a fire, or to atleast get it started burning well and down to a point where it can be dropped near flammable materials and catch fire.

[Bakayar]

no ystr, he means to have a small vacume at the end of the cigarette, by the filter, to emulate the effects of actually smoking the cigarette.

[ysr2096]

Yeah, but doesn't that totally defeat the purpose of using a cigarette to start a fire in the first place? It'll be discovered in the wreckage and the fire will be deemed arson. Much easier to just douse the place in gasoline if you don't care about inconspicuousness.

[Bakayar]

Good point, ystr, but if we where going to use the tried and tested methods we would not progress. yes the idea right now seems a bit foolish, but later on someone may come across it, improve on it, and then the next thing you know weve got a new means to create anarchy... or, rather, in this case, commit arson. this is the whole point of the forum.

[SLIM]

Yeah the cig will be found but if it's a smoker's home it won't be considered arson straight away an more likely an accident. You're not going to be leaving the "vacuum" there once the cig has ignited the area otherwise it would then be considered arson.

The use of the "vacuum" is just so you don't need to have the cig touch your lips in the first place and there's NO way it can be linked back at a small chance.

I never claimed this as an absolute method, of course it's easier just to put some accelerants in different rooms and light them and let it known that it's arson; that's why I got to the main point in my OP. I'm now talking about the possibilities of a cover up and not investigated as an arson, but an accident. As said it seems stupid at the moment, I'm looking for improvement on the idea or a better one for the purpose of being seen as an unintentional fire.

[ysr2096]

Originally Posted by slim-0v-derby

Yeah the cig will be found but if it's a smoker's home it won't be considered arson straight away an more likely an accident. You're not going to be leaving the "vacuum" there once the cig has ignited the area otherwise it would then be considered arson.

The use of the "vacuum" is just so you don't need to have the cig touch your lips in the first place and there's NO way it can be linked back at a small chance.

I never claimed this as an absolute method, of course it's easier just to put some accelerants in different rooms and light them and let it known that it's arson; that's why I got to the main point in my OP. I'm now talking about the possibilities of a cover up and not investigated as an arson, but an accident. As said it seems stupid at the moment, I'm looking for improvement on the idea or a better one for the purpose of being seen as an unintentional fire.

Point taken, but if you're going to hang around, why not just start it off with a lighter, then drop a cigarette so it looks like the cigarette started it? Are there any distinctive patterns you would have to emulate? Ie, do cigarette started fires look different than lighter started ones?

[SLIM]

The cigarette burns are pretty unique on a carpet if you've ever dropped one on it, I've done this more than enough times by accident when I've been playing my games and concentrating on them too much.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...use-of-a-blaze

This can explain better than where I'm going with this.

[ysr2096]

So... Drop a cigarette on the carpet, and set a nearby stack of paper alight (anything that won't leave clues) with a lighter. Then you don't have to worry about gay shit like vacuums and in not catching.

[Struwwelpeter]

Man, it's so odd that right after sending you that PM I just sent you Slim, you had made this thread. That's some creepy ass shit my friend. But a great thread nonetheless.

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by Jim "fuck latinos" Carrey

Man, it's so odd that right after sending you that PM I just sent you Slim, you had made this thread. That's some creepy ass shit my friend. But a great thread nonetheless.

It's because like you've said, it is true and something all of us should be taking into serious consideration.

[Firemind]

Thank you for the thread. But it is so easy I don't see why there should be a thread. Just get a can of Axe, and a disposable lighter and burn a patch of dry grass outside a Mark's house. Let it spread and leave (or record it)

[Twin Gats]

Originally Posted by slim-0v-derby

Bump.

I was thinking about fires started by cigarettes which haven't been discarded properly.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tte_fires.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/26/us...cigarette.html

How would one be able to efficiently light the cigarette and be able to keep it lit? You don't want to have the cig anywhere near your own mouth. If we can have a mini vacuum or something to keep it burning then you could effectively start a small house fire. If the occupants of the house are smokers themselves then it may be dismissed as arson (depending on your way of entry to the property and if there's any signs of B&E).

Any suggestions about this?

Arson is one of the only violent crimes i could see getting satisfaction from, ive always been a little pyro at heart.

and ill help u out there, cigs usually will stay lit, but to make sure glue a strip of a paper towel onto the cig to make sure it burns all the way. my dad invented this idea because he always likes to set delay firecrackers by my neighbors house at 3 in the morning. good old neighbor rivalry

[CrazyMotherFucker]

I thought some cigs nowadays are self extinguishing when not inhaled for awhile.

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by ghostxthief

I thought some cigs nowadays are self extinguishing when not inhaled for awhile.

They are that's what most of the discussion was on about after my OP.

[SLIM]

Soaking the whole room like shown in the films isn't ideal anyway. Good suggestions, keep it up guys.

[CrazyMotherFucker]

How about starting a fire from a fire source already in the house? ie, water heaters, stove pilot lights.

put flammable objects near it

[Leonidas]

So..is this a thread about how to commit arson? How to get away with it? Or what, because some direction would help with contribution

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by El Tigré

So..is this a thread about how to commit arson? How to get away with it? Or what, because some direction would help with contribution

It's a general arson thread, anything to do with it at all.

[Eridani]

I heard one of the best ways to burn a house down is to pour petrol on a rat then light it and stick it through the letter box. That way they can't tell where the fire started.

[CrazyMotherFucker]

Originally Posted by Gith

I heard one of the best ways to burn a house down is to pour petrol on a rat then light it and stick it through the letter box. That way they can't tell where the fire started.

I heard something like that on the news before, although it wasn't arson. somehow the rat or squirrel caught on fire and ignited part of the house

[Perfect_Imbalance]

Don't bring anything. A simple idea.

Start the fire only with what is available and what time allows.

Smoker? Use there smokes on a couch.

Candle? Light it next to a curtain.

Oven? Start something cooking, with plenty of oil and strategically placed tea-towels.

Gas Heater? Leave some clothes on top.

Use your innovation. Remember it better to fail than to succeed and get caught.

[SLIM]

Originally Posted by Gith

I heard one of the best ways to burn a house down is to pour petrol on a rat then light it and stick it through the letter box. That way they can't tell where the fire started.

Haha, that is hilarious if it would work. Have you got a news article or something?

The only thing I could see disadvantaged about that idea is getting the rat through the letter box without burning yourself. I guess you could use alum solutions to make a glove more retardent and then stuff it through the letter box or let it through an open window. Bearing in mind the other criteria to avoid getting caught as well.

Have you got a news article of this flaming rat? It sounds far-fetched as fuck.

[SLIM]

By the way, if you're going to start a fire in the kitchen or any room make sure there isn't linoleum flooring down. It'll make a huge mark where it was started and it burns really hot. Trust me, I'm a tiler and floor fitter. I know this. It'll be so easy to determine it as an arson attack and tell exactly that the fire was started in there. The light bulbs will pull to there and they'll see the marks there.

As I mentioned in the first post about the light bulbs being pulled in the direction of the greatest heat, you should do your best to make it look like an accident. I can't see much use to breaking all of the light bulbs, unless it's an abandoned house you're burning down just for fun. Fire creates a small vacuum which sucks the air in. So it will help determine where the fire could have started. Not necessarily because it is just pulled to the direction of where the greatest heat is.

What would you guys think about a fire being started in the garage? There's lots of flammable fluids in there, but you'd need for there to be a spark happen somehow.


I'm interested in this flaming rat idea as far fetched as it sounds.

[FANDANGO]

A bit of topic but I've got decent idea, say you ever wanted to murder someone you knew and get away with it.

This plan Involves you knowing the target reasonably well (enough to tempt them out for a drink and for them to invite you to their property) and timing.

Take you're target out to a bar or somewhere public that serves alcohol. Get them really, really drunk ideally to the point their nearly passing out. Probably a good idea to spike them with some sort of sleeping drug aswell just to be safe. After a heavy session you make up an excuse to finish the party at thier place, get more alcohol if necessary. Once alone with the target in thier residence keep on pouring alcohol and sleeping pills down thier neck until they pass out.

Now go into thier kitchen and put on a big pan of cooking oil, highest heat and leave.

Apparently one of the number one causes of fatal fires, is people coming home drunk and trying to make something to eat, then forgetting that they've left the pan on, if you've ever seen someone throw water on burnin cookin oil you'll see why.

[Hypothetical]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10213377/AFiles
Questionable source but this next site has a lot of ebooks
http://whitehonor.com/books2kill.htm

If you can find a copy of Arson Around With Auntie ALF (animal liberation front) I recommend it

Most of these recommend a straightforward approach and making sure the target goes down rather than a cover up

[yellowjello]

http://www.annarbor.com/news/milan-w...in-house-fire/

That guy tied towels to the wire leading to the main electrical panel and lit them on fire. The fire probably went up the towels and onto the wire and caused an explosion. What do you guys think about this idea? Do you think it would be suspicious?

[JoePedo]

Subscribing, hopefully.

[1983]

Originally Posted by Hypothetical

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10213377/AFiles
Questionable source but this next site has a lot of ebooks
http://whitehonor.com/books2kill.htm

If you can find a copy of Arson Around With Auntie ALF (animal liberation front) I recommend it

Most of these recommend a straightforward approach and making sure the target goes down rather than a cover up

What about the arson PDF with ELF (earth liberation front)?

Al

[EDIT]
Found a copy of Arson Around
http://thedisease.net/?ejaculate=lib...son=Explosives

[Firemind]

Hey, I've got a question.
If you use an aerosol flame spray on a tree(large), will it set on fire quickly? And spread?