Examples of American Literature

[Cliche Guevara]

Before I start, I want to say if you're going to post in here with the intentions of criticizing the fruitlessness of American Literature, I just want to say fuck off. Its more real and engaging than snooty "high brow" European Jane Eyre bullshit. I'm generalizing here obviously and European Literature is still literature (right now I'm quite enamoured with W. Somerset Maugham), but for the most part I would first like to engage myself in encompassing all literature that America has to offer.

I first started off with the beat generation and more experimental American literature (James Joyce(not american), Faulkner, etc), reading Kerouac, Burroughs, Ginsberg. I've read On the Road, Naked Lunch, Junky, The Dharma Bums. I'm not sure theres much more on worthwhile to read on the beats (besides of course the other works of the authors I mentioned).

I then moved onto books with a American style, like The Adventures of Augie March, Huck Finn, The Red Badge of Courage, Moby Dick, To kill a Mockingbird, depression era writing (Grapes of Wrath, etc), Farewell to Arms.

Then books detailing American madness and disillusionment, i.e Catcher in the Rye, Lolita, The Bell Jar, The Rules of Engagement, american psycho.

Then American intellectual (I don't want to say science fiction) but the works of Slaughterhouse 5, Gravity's Rainbow, Fahrenheit 451, I Robot, and various others

This can all be seen in more detail on the wiki on American literature, but I think this is an okay if seriously understated grasp of American literature. Of course I've only read around 50% of the books I mentioned, I sure l I'm missing quite a few American Classics. I rather like the sections that Wikipedia divides its American literature please feel free to add some books I missed, nothing too obscure, something well received by critics and readers

[LiquidIce]

Dude, thanks so much for that list. I'll get around to reading those authors when I finish my round of Polish fantasy and some philosophical/spirituality works.

[PROJECT PAT]

I could have sworn that you're including james joyce as an american author. thus making you a retarded person.

anyway. you left out flannery o conner. personally i think somerset maugham is very overrated. the razors edge is his best novel and it's a fairly typical coming of age shtick that reverberated more with me when i was 15. of human bondage was not anywhere nearly as good as it's billed up to be. more obviously you forgot fitzgerald.

[Cliche Guevara]

My mistake for some reason I thought James Joyce was American. But in any case its still a good example of experimental prose style that came about in the mid 19th century.

Yeah I really like the razors edge, I was inspired to read it after I read Siddharta. Both Maugham and Hess was very "prescient" (to quote wiki) about the west's extreme fascination of the far east decades before people even realized that fascination.

But yeah I did forget the great gatsby, but I didn't much like it.

[never]

Don DeLillo

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

My mistake for some reason I thought James Joyce was American. But in any case its still a good example of experimental prose style that came about in the mid 19th century.

Yeah I really like the razors edge, I was inspired to read it after I read Siddharta. Both Maugham and Hess was very "prescient" (to quote wiki) about the west's extreme fascination of the far east decades before people even realized that fascination.

But yeah I did forget the great gatsby, but I didn't much like it.

i don't see how anyone could not like the great gatsby and i believe that it would literally be quite impossible to ever mistake joyce for an american if you had actually opened one of his books.

[Cliche Guevara]

You're right Ulysses was a boring piece of work and I never got past the first few chapters, and Finnegans Wake was pretty much unintelligible dribble. I'm not a fan, I was illustrating a point about his style of prose.

[Fza]

Edgar Allen Poe, my favorite American writer.

And the first American writer to be accepted as good literature in Europe if I recall correctly. Regardless he has some wonderful "fantastic" stories. And he's the founder of the detective genre (murder in the Rue Morgue).

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

You're right Ulysses was a boring piece of work and I never got past the first few chapters, and Finnegans Wake was pretty much unintelligible dribble. I'm not a fan, I was illustrating a point about his style of prose.

how could you be so god damned dense. i'm not even going to get into your blasphemously unintelligent opinions on joyce. but do you really think that there are people named finnegan in america? if you read even the first page of ulysses it is obvious that it takes place in ireland. i don't think that you got nearly as far as the first few chapters. maybe the first few pages and i doubt even that.

[Cliche Guevara]

Seriously, I found Finnegan's Wake insulting to read and an utter waste of money. Ulysses I understand redefined literature, but honestly I think the book is rated so highly only because of the cascade of influence that followed its publication.

Having never read the book itself in its entirety I can still stay it is "a big circle jerk over a bundle of stylistic gesturing." and "the problem with it is that its genius (if any) is not apparent or even accessible to most readers. Ulysses has little plot to speak of, featuring two mundane characters. " and " it doesn't really tackle any "big issues" and rarely does it make any unqualified, profound statements. "

In short, I think it takes a pretentious douchebag to say they actually enjoyed Ulysses, the plot did was not moving and difficult to follow and you would probably have to study the book your entire life to try and comprehend the giant tangled mess of allusions the books is covered in.

And also, I'd like to say it takes a gigantic asshole of a person to even mention Finnegan's Wake as a slightly Okay book. I do however, acknowledge the wide influence that James Joyce had on modern literature, if only because of the insanity and genre busting nature of his prose, and for that Ulysses deserves a spot on the top 10 and I can say it was a good book based on that, but I personally found it boring and pretty much as unreadable as Finnegans Wake.

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

Seriously, I found Finnegan's Wake insulting to read and an utter waste of money. Ulysses I understand redefined literature, but honestly I think the book is rated so highly only because of the cascade of influence that followed its publication.

Having never read the book itself in its entirety I can still stay it is "a big circle jerk over a bundle of stylistic gesturing." and "the problem with it is that its genius (if any) is not apparent or even accessible to most readers. Ulysses has little plot to speak of, featuring two mundane characters. " and " it doesn't really tackle any "big issues" and rarely does it make any unqualified, profound statements. "

In short, I think it takes a pretentious douchebag to say they actually enjoyed Ulysses, the plot did was not moving and difficult to follow and you would probably have to study the book your entire life to try and comprehend the giant tangled mess of allusions the books is covered in.

And also, I'd like to say it takes a gigantic asshole of a person to even mention Finnegan's Wake as a slightly Okay book. I do however, acknowledge the wide influence that James Joyce had on modern literature, if only because of the insanity and genre busting nature of his prose, and for that Ulysses deserves a spot on the top 10 and I can say it was a good book based on that, but I personally found it boring and pretty much as unreadable as Finnegans Wake.

i haven't read finnegans wake, but i don't think you should be talking about either one when you have clearly never put even the slightest effort into absorbing their content and i have very serious doubts that you've ever tried to read them at all. you're probably just repeating some shit that some pretentious faggot told you.

your whole conception of literature is flawed. ulysses is a piece of art. the mastery of language, the symbolism, the stream of consciousness is nothing short of amazing. it is like nothing that had been done up to that point. it is a masterpiece of literature. you realize it's a modern retelling of the odyssey right? is the plot of the odyssey boring to you?

[Cliche Guevara]

Originally Posted by PROJECT PAT

how could you be so god damned dense. i'm not even going to get into your blasphemously unintelligent opinions on joyce. but do you really think that there are people named finnegan in america? if you read even the first page of ulysses it is obvious that it takes place in ireland. i don't think that you got nearly as far as the first few chapters. maybe the first few pages and i doubt even that.

What does taking place in Ireland have to do with the nationality of the writer. Countless books take place in countries that author is not from. A razors edge to name one off the top of my head. Siddhartha takes place in India, but what Hesse isn't Indian? What?

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

What does taking place in Ireland have to do with the nationality of the writer. Countless books take place in countries that author is not from. A razors edge to name one off the top of my head.

it is very obviously written by an irishman. if you read more than the first paragraph there is no excuse for you to have not known that.

[Cliche Guevara]

Originally Posted by PROJECT PAT

i haven't read finnegans wake, but i don't think you should be talking about either one when you have clearly never put even the slightest effort into absorbing their content and i have very serious doubts that you've ever tried to read them at all. you're probably just repeating some shit that some pretentious faggot told you.

your whole conception of literature is flawed. ulysses is a piece of art. the mastery of language, the symbolism, the stream of consciousness is nothing short of amazing. it is like nothing that had been done up to that point. it is a masterpiece of literature. you realize it's a modern retelling of the odyssey right? is the plot of the odyssey boring to you?

I made a thread about Finnegans Wake a few months ago douche http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=41729 and even bought the audio book, and read it outloud as well. At the time, I told myself I enjoyed it but in retrospect there was nothing to enjoy. And Yes, I realize Ulysses is a retelling of the odyssey but the way it was written was nothing short of insane.

Its just my opinion, I think its unreadable and not worth the trouble as I read books to learn more about the authors theme and purpose not try and decipher silly puns and try and sieve some sort of story from the tangled mess of a plot. and I'm going to leave it at that. If there is symbolism and "art" involved, it went way over my head. But Im happy for you.

[seatdistrict]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

"the problem with it is that its genius (if any) is not apparent or even accessible to most readers.

What kind of genius is apparent and accessible to the majority of people?

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

I think the book is rated so highly only because of the cascade of influence that followed its publication.

That influence is the result of the aforementioned genius not being lost on intelligent people. Joyce pioneered the 'stream-of-consciousness' style of writing in works like Ulysses and Finnegan's Wake, which were not intended to be easy reading.
This style did, however, have a profound effect on American literature, especially William Faulkner (The Sound and the Fury) and Ambrose Bierce ("An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge").

In claiming that anyone who has appreciated either work is 'pretentious' or 'a gigantic asshole' you make a wildly thoughtless generalization that mitigates the efficacy of your argument. A blanket judgment without justification doesn't make sense or stimulate intelligent discussion.

[Cliche Guevara]

I think the majority of people have the ability to at least RECOGNIZE genius, even if they cant understand it. The problem with Joyce is that to the majority of people his writing is utterly indistinguishable from insanity and I can`t help but wonder that the people who claim the work is genius and full of so much symbolism they can actually comprehend a little bit pretentious. Im told that people make careers out of understanding Joyce, and even then they struggle, hence my use of the words gigantic douche when Joe Schmoe comes around telling me how great and meaningful the book was to them. Although I can understand a quasi blind understanding of the book is enough more than enough to appreciate the talent of Joyce, it is not my piece of cake.

Having glanced at the history of the book, Finnegans Wake, One cannot overlook the correspondence between him and his schizophrenic daughter and one cannot help but think that Joyce intentionally wrote Finnegans wake in an insane manner either as a tribute to his ill daughter or because he himself was undergoing a mental breakdown. It does not help his case that his estate destroyed thousands of letters between him and his daughter after his death. Joyce himself gave up on the work, and tried to convince his friends to finish it, and eventually it was finished by him as no one took up his offer to write the rest of the book.

I can give a pass on Ulysses as a work of fine influential art but Finnegans Wake is inexcusably a farce. (having changed my earlier opinion that it is meaningful) But you guys are right, I should read the Ulysses before I judge it, but at a cursory glance it is unreadable.

anyways, I do not think the book had to be "genius" for it to be influential, I think it was sufficient enough that an already well known and recieved writer broke convention and changed the "rules" and the book could have been completely dribble and people would take his idea of "stream of conciousness" experimental prose and render it into a readable and meaningful genre.

[seatdistrict]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

The problem with Joyce is that to the majority of people his writing is utterly indistinguishable from insanity

The fact that these books have been adopted into the literary canon is fairly indicative of "the majority of people" at least recognizing the genius of the works and their author.

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

One cannot overlook the correspondence between him and his schizophrenic daughter and one cannot help but think that Joyce intentionally wrote Finnegans wake in an insane manner.

The technique he uses is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_consciousness_(narrative_mode), which mimics the thought patterns of a person (not necessarily insane). Normal peoples' cognition is disjointed and rambling as well. The connection with his daughter is completely irrelevant; there is absolutely no proof of his writing being influenced by his daughter's mental condition.
Finnegan's Wake is certainly difficult to comprehend, but calling it 'insane' is a simple dismissal, revealing that one isn't willing to put in the necessary time and effort to comprehend it and is complacent in ignorance.

[Cliche Guevara]

There are many essays on the topic and even a book or two about Lucias Role in the outcome of Finnegans Wake. Here is an except http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/di...w=printexcerpt

Carol Shloss believes that Lucia's case was cruelly mishandled. When Lucia fell ill, she at last captured her father's sustained attention. He grieved over her incessantly. At the same time, he was in the middle of writing Finnegans Wake, and various people around him—friends, patrons, assistants, on whom, since he was going blind, he was very dependent—believed that the future of Western literature hung on his ability to finish this book. But he was not finishing it, because he was too busy worrying about Lucia. He was desperate to keep her at home. His friends—and also Nora, who bore the burden of caring for Lucia when she was at home, and who was the primary target of her fury—insisted that she be institutionalized. The entourage finally prevailed, and Joyce completed Finnegans Wake. In Shloss's view, Lucia was the price paid for a book.

But, as Shloss tells it, the silencing of Lucia went further than that. Her story was erased. After Joyce's death, many of his friends and relatives, in order to cover over this sad (and reputation- beclouding) matter, destroyed Lucia's letters, together with Joyce's letters to and about her. Shloss says that Giorgio's son, Stephen Joyce, actually removed letters from a public collection in the National Library of Ireland. When Brenda Maddox's biography of Nora was in galleys, Maddox was required to delete her epilogue on Lucia in return for permission to quote various Joyce materials. Shloss doesn't waste any tears over Maddox, however. In her opinion, Maddox and Ellmann are among the sinners, because they assumed, and thereby persuaded the public, that Lucia was insane. (Whenever Shloss catches Ellmann or Maddox in what seems to her a factual error, she records it snappishly—a tone inadvisable for a writer who, forced to swot up three decades of dance history, made some errors herself.) But the biographers are a side issue. None of Lucia's letters survive as original documents. Nor is there any trace of her diaries or poems, or of a novel that she is said to have been writing. In other words, most of the primary sources for an account of Lucia Joyce's life are missing. "This is a story that was not supposed to be told," Shloss writes. Therefore she tells it with a vengeance."

It goes on to describe the influence and impact she had on the novel. (and i think kind of hints that the novel may contain excerpts from Lucia herself)

But aside from that, you are right, and I concede to you good sir. Calling it isnane is a simple dismissal. But I have indeed put time (i dont know about necessary) and I do admit there is some semblance of meaning behind it, but I really believe my time spent reading it was fruitless and I learned nothing. And of Ulysses I render no opinion besides what I have read about it, and can offer no personal response.

Edit: also I would like to add that because it has been "accepted" as literary canon is in no way indicative of its merit as prose. There are books that have won awards that I loathe and would not consider a worthy book at all, it is all opinion. (although most of the time most of the time I agree with public opinion)

[never]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

Seriously, I found Finnegan's Wake insulting to read and an utter waste of money. Ulysses I understand redefined literature, but honestly I think the book is rated so highly only because of the cascade of influence that followed its publication.

Having never read the book itself in its entirety I can still stay it is "a big circle jerk over a bundle of stylistic gesturing." and "the problem with it is that its genius (if any) is not apparent or even accessible to most readers. Ulysses has little plot to speak of, featuring two mundane characters. " and " it doesn't really tackle any "big issues" and rarely does it make any unqualified, profound statements. "

In short, I think it takes a pretentious douchebag to say they actually enjoyed Ulysses, the plot did was not moving and difficult to follow and you would probably have to study the book your entire life to try and comprehend the giant tangled mess of allusions the books is covered in.

And also, I'd like to say it takes a gigantic asshole of a person to even mention Finnegan's Wake as a slightly Okay book. I do however, acknowledge the wide influence that James Joyce had on modern literature, if only because of the insanity and genre busting nature of his prose, and for that Ulysses deserves a spot on the top 10 and I can say it was a good book based on that, but I personally found it boring and pretty much as unreadable as Finnegans Wake.

I love how in thread after thread you criticize people's work without having read it. Copy and pasting other people's opinions does not constitute an opinion of your own.

[supperrfreek]

You seem to have missed Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Kuckoo's Nest.

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by supperrfreek

You seem to have missed Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Kuckoo's Nest.

yeah ken kesey is big. robert penn warren is another one.

[Fza]

Originally Posted by seatdistrict

William Faulkner (The Sound and the Fury)

Hmm, that book is lying somewhere in the house, is it a good read?

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by Fza

Hmm, that book is lying somewhere in the house, is it a good read?

it's a little difficult to get into. stream of consciousness and all.

[Fza]

Ah, I won't bother then. I stopped reading Ulysses after a page.

[RosettaStoned]

Originally Posted by Cliche Guevara

But yeah I did forget the great gatsby, but I didn't much like it.

Paradise Lost. I must re-read The Great Gatsby. Also, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Twain in general, anyone?

Oh and as aforementioned, Vonnegut.

[PROJECT PAT]

Originally Posted by RosettaStoned

Paradise Lost. I must re-read The Great Gatsby. Also, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Twain in general, anyone?

Oh and as aforementioned, Vonnegut.

paradise lost was written before america was even invented brah

plus he already mentioned twain and vonnegut.

[Dionysus]

I suggest reading "Beutiful Losers" by Leonard Cohen if you like the beats. Not strictly american but his stuff to me is like a cross between Kerouac and Ginsburg... good stuff.

[fallinghouse]

I'm going to second Don Delillo. White Noise really is a masterpiece.

[RosettaStoned]

Originally Posted by PROJECT PAT

paradise lost was written before america was even invented brah

plus he already mentioned twain and vonnegut.

Wow, I really need to start paying more attention.

[AnotherAnimal]

Hunter S. Thompson, author of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, was American.

'nuff said.