Caliber Wars - 9mm vs. .45 etc.

[Gun Lover]

Which do you prefer? I know it's an age old question with no real answer, but seeing as this site hasn't discussed it yet, why not ask? Feel free to discuss other battles (7.62x39mm vs 5.56x45mm) and other caliber related things.

I prefer .45acp for concealed carry, 7.62 for zombies, 10 gauge or .50AE for destroying things, and overall if I had to choose one overall favorite it would be the .308.

Post what you like for specific applications.

[PirateJoe]

Favorite caliber for what?

I'm quite fond of .22lr for poking holes in tin cans, which is what I do most often. If I really need to show that can whats what, I'll bust out the 7.62x54r.

[LavaRed]

Hi guys. &T refugee here.
.22 LR seems to be handy.
I think one needs only 4 handgun calibers : .22LR, 9x19mm, .45ACP, and.357 Magnum.

And only 4 rifle calibers: .22LR, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm and .30-06.

[Gun Lover]

Good to see you LavaRed. For a minute there I thought I wouldn't be jealous of anyone else's guns on this board, but there you are.

[Virus]

There really isn't much of a difference between the 9mm parabellum and the .45 ACP when push comes to shove. Believe it or not the 9mm parabellum produces more energy on impact than the .45 ACP

You can find the energies and velocities produced by each cartridge at the following links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19mm_Parabellum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45_ACP

I only prefer my humble deer rifl chambered in .338 Winchester Magnum.

[blue_monday]

&t refugee here

I've always thought the 10mm, 38 super, 357 sig, 7.62x25, and 44 cor bon were extremely under popular rounds when compared to their performance.

As far as rifle and shotgun: 410 is more shotgun than i often need, I've seen 22 and 9mm smoothbores that should be marketed more.

308 is where its at! for a magnum rifle round i'm a fan of the new winchester short/fats, especially the 300wsm.

I also want to see a modern rifle in 32 and 25 ACP, and 7.62x25.

[LavaRed]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Good to see you LavaRed. For a minute there I thought I wouldn't be jealous of anyone else's guns on this board, but there you are.

Well, there you are. .
By the way, what was your &T user name?

[Penis]

Originally Posted by LavaRed

Hi guys. &T refugee here.
.22 LR seems to be handy.
I think one needs only 4 handgun calibers : .22LR, 9x19mm, .45ACP, and.357 Magnum.

And only 4 rifle calibers: .22LR, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x51mm and .30-06.

Why 7.62x39? Price and availability?

[reggie_love]

Well, from a purely SHTF/robustness standpoint

.22LR for foods (and lulz/practice)
.45 ACP for bad guys
.308 Win for long range bad guys and/or bigger food.

I'm also partial to the 12 gauge for at-home removal of bad guys, but if I were traveling across a ruined U.S. I wouldn't want to haul around a big box of shells. The bulk to firepower ratio is a little too high, not to mention your range is inherently limited.

As for "faves" I've always liked .32ACP because it's easier to control in compact guns. 5.56 HIFH is also in my top ten .

[LavaRed]

Originally Posted by Penis

Why 7.62x39? Price and availability?

It packs a nice punch it seems. It may not be as accurate as 5.56 NATO, but in my humble opinion it definitely is a better assault rifle caliber.

[driveby]

Steel core, teflon 7.62x39

.45 ACP full metal jacket (fingerprints), or hollow tip(to increase fragmentation chances)


With a 9, it's all about shot placement, and that is a huge flaw with the 9, when in a shootout situation. That is why the .45 ACP is a better choice.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by driveby

With a 9, it's all about shot placement, and that is a huge flaw with the 9, when in a shootout situation. That is why the .45 ACP is a better choice.

Back this statement up. Shot placement applies to any projectile regardless of size. Not to mention the 9mm Parabellum has more energy on impact than a .45ACP and you get mre rounds per mag with a 9 mm Parabellum.

[Stinger]

9mm = light and fast.

.45 = slow and heavy.

10mm = fast and heavy.

10mm wins.

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by driveby

Steel core, teflon 7.62x39

.45 ACP full metal jacket (fingerprints), or hollow tip(to increase fragmentation chances)


With a 9, it's all about shot placement, and that is a huge flaw with the 9, when in a shootout situation. That is why the .45 ACP is a better choice.

Wow! That is the most insightful post I've ever read in my life.



But to answer the OP's question...

I'm a fan or 9x19, .40, and .45.

Because whatever pistol I get, I'm going to load it with high quality, modern, JHPs and call it a day.


And, I'm not sure if by "7.62x39 Vs 5.56x45" if you actually mean that or if it is just another way of saying "AR Vs AK".


But, regardless of platform, I'll say this.

They are both intermediate rifle cartridges and they will both kill better than any pistol cartridge.

I have seen countless posts on other forums where someone trash talks the 5.56 as being "ineffective", but goes on to talk about the .45 like it is a miniture nuclear device.

That's pure stupidity.

For sheer "killing power" ANY centerfire rifle cartridge is better than ANY centerfire pistol cartridge.


But on to 5.56 Vs 7.62 (x39), Dr. Martin Fackler has shown that 7.62x39 Yugoslav FMJ ammunition has better terminal performance that 55gr 5.56x45 (M193), based mostly on the fact that the Yugo FMJ begins to yaw and fragment in 9cm of tissue simulant whereas M193 (55gr 5.56 FMJ) doesn't start until 12cm.

But again, that's nothing but a arguement of fractions of an inch.

Though the 7.62x39 IS a "better" round to punch through brush and cover with.


Me, however, I like the AK platform.

And that pretty much means I have to go with 7.62x39.

Because magazines for AKs in that caliber (when I bought them) were cheaper and easier to find that those for 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 AKs.

Due to recent events I'm not sure how true that is any more (ie, some filthy Socialist cocksucker).


This is what it comes down to though...

I don't care if you shoot an AR, AK, Mini 14, Mini 30, SKS, or a Keltec SU16.

If you shoot it well and it works for you, what does it matter what a bunch of people on the internet say?

Because I can assure you that if you shoot someone in the face with one of those rifles, they're not going to tell you how "ineffective" your personal gun/caliber/loading combination is.


And, since this is my "introductory" post, I'm going to post some gun porn.

(Most W&C regulars will be familiar with these pictures)

My 9x19 (GLOCK 19) and my .40 (Springfield XD):



My other 9x19 (Calico M950) and my .40 again:



AK Variant (GP WASR 10/63):



The best AK iron sights available (Meprolight night sights):

[driveby]

^You've got some pale skin.

[5.56 SS109]

Yes, because cameras don't flash at all and cause over exposed pictures, do they?

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by blue_monday

I also want to see a modern rifle in 32 and 25 ACP, and 7.62x25.

http://www.mcace.com


Sells solid steel chamber adaptors ($20 shipped) that allow you to fire .32 Auto and .30 Mauser (I'm sure these inserts are robust enough to stand up to full power 7.62x25 as well) cartridges from a .308 or .30-06 rifle.


I heard a report from someone who uses .32 Auto out of a .300 Winmag (or .300 RUM, I don't remember) adaptor, and he says it is as quiet as a suppressed .32 Auto and he can drill phonebooks out to 200 yards.


Now, I'm not sure about 200 yard shots, but that adaptor combined with a .30-06 NEF Handi Rifle (which is a break down rifle that can be fit into a suitcase and has a retail of around $200) would make one hell of an "urban sniper" James Bondish thing.

You can use .32 Auto for quiet and close shots, then pop out the adaptor and shoot full power .30-06 for long range or barrier penetration.

[driveby]

When in a shootout, the .45 will injure the victim in an increased amount, when they are shooting at you, and you don't have time to line the sights up when your shooting. Imagine 5 people coming at you with glocks, shooting. Do you have time to aim precisely, or are you just trying to bust rapidly at torsoe's?

The differences are minute, mind you, but I prefer the .45 ACP. But then again, you can get 33 rounds for a glock 21, and go into a rich white grocery store, and make a pretty scene with 33 headshots.

[5.56 SS109]

That's incorrect.

The highest capacity magazine you can buy for a .45 ACP caliber GLOCK holds 25 rounds.

So you really only have the ability to make 26 head shots.


Provided you are a skilled marksman and none of your rounds are lost on tap-rack-bang drills because you needed to clear a malfunction caused by the low quality Scherer magazine.


Your best bet when it comes to anything firearm related is to stick with OEM magazines and parts.

[LSA King]

As always which ever one you can score a shot to the forehead or to the beating heart the best and most accurate. I myself would personally feel "safer" so to speak with a bigger round but thats just me and the American mindset. You must take what you shoot with best into count aswell. Higher Cap mags dont mean a damn if you shoot a man in the head and he goes down, people will run guaranteed . Everyone knows what a .45 and a shotgun round will do to a person, hell just looking at the round becomes intimidating your first time.

Just remember its all about the mentality of shoot to kill and nothing else. Don't get stuck with the idea of pumping him full of rounds because it just takes one well placed shot to end anyones ball game regardless of caliber.

[LavaRed]

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

http://www.mcace.com


Sells solid steel chamber adaptors ($20 shipped) that allow you to fire .32 Auto and .30 Mauser (I'm sure these inserts are robust enough to stand up to full power 7.62x25 as well) cartridges from a .308 or .30-06 rifle.


I heard a report from someone who uses .32 Auto out of a .300 Winmag (or .300 RUM, I don't remember) adaptor, and he says it is as quiet as a suppressed .32 Auto and he can drill phonebooks out to 200 yards.


Now, I'm not sure about 200 yard shots, but that adaptor combined with a .30-06 NEF Handi Rifle (which is a break down rifle that can be fit into a suitcase and has a retail of around $200) would make one hell of an "urban sniper" James Bondish thing.

You can use .32 Auto for quiet and close shots, then pop out the adaptor and shoot full power .30-06 for long range or barrier penetration.

Me likey!
where can I get one?

[Struwwelpeter]

Would you be able to put one of those 32ACP adapters in to a Mosin Nagant? The barrels can be pretty long and I assume that would be pretty quiet and neat-o cool. Please inform me.

[5.56 SS109]

Originally Posted by LavaRed

Me likey!
where can I get one?

I should've put the link at the bottom instead of the top....


But the site is http://www.mcace.com

They don't list anything for 7.62x54 and I'm not sure if they do overseas stuff.

But, a word of warning on Nagants, I don't think a .32 Auto round would work too well, as .32 Auto is actually .308" diameter and 7.62x54R is .311" in diameter. The .32 round would tend to "wobble" down the barrel and not be very accurate/stabilized.

EDIT:

They also have entire inserts with little barrels on them that you put into the barrel and chamber of your rifle or shotgun to fire most rimfire rounds.

12ga Shotgun adaptors also come in most common centerfire pistol rounds (no .40), I think .223, and .45-70.

But hey, it's on their site.

[Struwwelpeter]

Would I be able to put a twelve gauge adapter in my AR-15?

[LavaRed]

Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109

I should've put the link at the bottom instead of the top....


But the site is http://www.mcace.com

They don't list anything for 7.62x54 and I'm not sure if they do overseas stuff.

But, a word of warning on Nagants, I don't think a .32 Auto round would work too well, as .32 Auto is actually .308" diameter and 7.62x54R is .311" in diameter. The .32 round would tend to "wobble" down the barrel and not be very accurate/stabilized.

EDIT:

They also have entire inserts with little barrels on them that you put into the barrel and chamber of your rifle or shotgun to fire most rimfire rounds.

12ga Shotgun adaptors also come in most common centerfire pistol rounds (no .40), I think .223, and .45-70.

But hey, it's on their site.

I also mean the takedown rifle.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by driveby

When in a shootout, the .45 will injure the victim in an increased amount.

As Carl Sagon said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". How does a .45 ACP do more damage when a 9mm Parabellum has more energy on impact.

9mm Parabellum Ballistics

.45 ACP Ballistics



Back your statements up or stop talking. It's ridiculous.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by LavaRed

Well, there you are. .
By the way, what was your &T user name?

My username hasn't changed. I never posted very much, and my only notable thing is that I own this: A Titanium Gold Desert Eagle in .50 Action Express

[LavaRed]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

My username hasn't changed. I never posted very much, and my only notable thing is that I own this: A Titanium Gold Desert Eagle in .50 Action Express

Hey! I remember you! Welcome aboard mate! You still wanna trade a full auto Russian AK for it?

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by LavaRed

Hey! I remember you! Welcome aboard mate! You still wanna trade a full auto Russian AK for it?

Well seeing as how I wouldn't have a place to shoot it, and because I'm not technically old enough to even own handguns in the U.S., I have to decline . Don't think I wouldn't trade it if it were within the realms of legality here.

[jodevilgod1]

Originally Posted by Virus

As Carl Sagon said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". How does a .45 ACP do more damage when a 9mm Parabellum has more energy on impact.

9mm Parabellum Ballistics

.45 ACP Ballistics



Back your statements up or stop talking. It's ridiculous.

Thank god.

Many times a .45 ACP will leave a larger wound channel (bigger JHP) and the havier bullets penetrate soft stuff more.

But kudos to you for bringing that up.

As to the caliber wars, they are retarded. Ive seen people get hit with several 25mm HE rounds and continue to crawl away. On the other side, Ive seen 9mm FMJ get the job done well. I will talk a lot of shit about the m16/m4 but its more my dislike of m855 than 5.56/ .223.

Same with 9mm ball, or any ball pistol ammo.

I find myself longing for a claw hammer every time Im at a gunshow/gunshop and some white trash hillbilly is talking about how a 9mm will just piss somebody off, a Glaser Slug will explode your torso, black talon bullets are the shit etc.

Take what you can shoot well, anything .38spl/9mm luger and up. Carry good ammo. I love my 1911s, but its not really because they are 45s

[adhesive tape]

.40 S&W and .45ACP are my top picks for a pistol.

7.62 and .308 for rifles.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by jodevilgod1

Ive seen people get hit with several 25mm HE rounds and continue to crawl away.

I lol'd.

[LSA King]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

I lol'd.

Raise the bullshit flag .

[Faithless]

The best caliber is whatever you can hit the target with quickly and accurately.

Preferably above 9mm/.38 but whatever, you've got to be able be comfortable shooting it.

[Random_Looney]

Originally Posted by driveby

When in a shootout, the .45 will injure the victim in an increased amount, when they are shooting at you, and you don't have time to line the sights up when your shooting. Imagine 5 people coming at you with glocks, shooting. Do you have time to aim precisely, or are you just trying to bust rapidly at torsoe's?

I would use flash sight picture, lining up the sights with my natural point of aim like I was trained, and would almost certainly score more hits than Joe gangbanger just throwing his lead in my general directon. I wouldn't adopt a target stance and take single shots.

[puzld]

I have a 10mm. It is a very versatile cartridge. Will be more versatile once I get my reloading dies.

[LSA King]

Originally Posted by Random_Looney

I would use flash sight picture, lining up the sights with my natural point of aim like I was trained, and would almost certainly score more hits than Joe gangbanger just throwing his lead in my general directon. I wouldn't adopt a target stance and take single shots.

Welcome back Random_Looney!

[Korivan i'Alagmarae]

the CORRECT answer is: .45ACP > 9mm


srsly though, I do prefer .45ACP as far as an overall "best" handgun caliber.

[Korivan i'Alagmarae]

Originally Posted by Random_Looney

I would use flash sight picture, lining up the sights with my natural point of aim like I was trained, and would almost certainly score more hits than Joe gangbanger just throwing his lead in my general directon. I wouldn't adopt a target stance and take single shots.

same here.

[Random_Looney]

Originally Posted by LSA King

Welcome back Random_Looney!

Thank you.