Archived: What has led you to believe what you do?

[Nolte]

First of all, I should establish that today I identify as an agnostic. I do not believe that there has been any way for me (so far in life) to come to the conclusion that there either is or isn't a higher being. I have however not ruled out the possibility that I may someday be able to come to a conclusion, and I have not ruled out that others may have.

What I'm asking is:

What events, experiences, or trains of thought have led you to your current beliefs regarding the existence or non-existence of god?

[Gun Lover]

Science proving evolution along with the inherent wickedness of humanity = destruction of any religious fantasies.

It sure is good to be the smart one my limited area of society

[DJ Meaty Cheeks]

penis penis penis?

[th1rdeye]

Spiritual experiences and psychedelics. The kind of thing that if I wrote them down and posted them, everyone else would tell me that there was a perfectly logical scientific explanation, that I was ignorant, that it was psychological, or that I was just tripping balls.
Anyway, the beauty of the whole situation is that people can criticize my experiences and it doesn't get to me because my reality isn't theirs.

[Nolte]

Originally Posted by th1rdeye

Spiritual experiences and psychedelics. The kind of thing that if I wrote them down and posted them, everyone else would tell me that there was a perfectly logical scientific explanation, that I was ignorant, that it was psychological, or that I was just tripping balls.
Anyway, the beauty of the whole situation is that people can criticize my experiences and it doesn't get to me because my reality isn't theirs.

Could you please elaborate?

[Rizzo in a box]

Experience as well as constant presence. Even if I try to run away and shut myself up in darkness and ignorance (and believe me, I do), there's no ignoring the vastness that's all around me and inside me. To call it "god" or what have you is just demeaning. I have no words to describe it and yet it is the well spring for all words, language, communication, poetry, inspiration, etc.

[Ambient]

Culture & Society.

[Nolte]

Originally Posted by Killallthewhiteman420

Culture & Society.

Which culture? which society?

Do you believe in god? Why or why not?

[th1rdeye]

Yeah I'll elaborate.
The center of a lot of my spirituality is the yin and yang symbol. I'm not into Eastern religion or anything but I think the symbol itself sums up a lot.
For example, I have been recently been trying to see things more in this "light and dark" type of way. Now, I think it is very subjective to see these light forces and dark forces as the classic battle between good and evil, so I choose to call them enabling and destructive. The beauty in calling them that is that what is destructive for me may be enabling for another person, but it's not my place to tell them they need to see things from my point of view and tag whatever event occurred as "evil".
So, I mentioned psychedelics before... for me, psychedelics essentially force me to live completely in the moment. I believe also that "the moment" is the one point in reality that touches eternity because in it, I am neither dwelling on the past or looking toward the future, I am just a soul existing for some reason (yeah, I personally believe there is a reason to my existence). Anyway, when I can clear my head enough to inhabit the moment, which psychedelics have helped me do, I am able to realize how great the powers of intention and action really are. This has always left me in a place where I ask myself: Why do I have this power and what will I do with it?
Now this gets into a whole different dimension of things and in a way, gets to the core of who I am. I try to be an enabling force I guess, I try to spread love and acceptance into the world because I have found that I feel better doing that than trying to spend my energy arranging life to suit myself so I can feel happy on a material level.
Back to the yin and yang; am I the black with the dot of white, or the white with the dot of black, the two are so close to each other that I can't tell and as they revolve around one another in perfect harmony, I find that it doesn't so much matter which is "right" and which is "wrong" because they need each other to exist. There can be no light without dark and vice versa. So where I land as I fall from my mysterious spiritual cloud is that all I can really do in this life is to stay true to myself, whoever that is, and accept everyone else for being who they are because after all, everything is already harmonious, why waste my time trying to change that and be miserable in doing so?
How's that for elaboration?

[Nero]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

Experience as well as constant presence. Even if I try to run away and shut myself up in darkness and ignorance (and believe me, I do), there's no ignoring the vastness that's all around me and inside me. To call it "god" or what have you is just demeaning. I have no words to describe it and yet it is the well spring for all words, language, communication, poetry, inspiration, etc.

It's called the sound of one hand clapping, obvz.

[Lysergic Rain]

I first found Totse when I was like 10.

Totse - read.know.do

I don't believe in God, I support responsible drug use, I support gay marriage, I don't support gun control, I don't support our government, I don't support consumerism.

Thank you Totse for making me into one of the "different" ones.

[ergoat]

Originally Posted by th1rdeye

Spiritual experiences and psychedelics. The kind of thing that if I wrote them down and posted them, everyone else would tell me that there was a perfectly logical scientific explanation, that I was ignorant, that it was psychological, or that I was just tripping balls.
Anyway, the beauty of the whole situation is that people can criticize my experiences and it doesn't get to me because my reality isn't theirs.

Same method, different result.

By experiencing things I thought couldn't happen, and choosing to believe my experience over any rationalisation of the experience that I could make, I've sort of seen the flaws in reason and that has led me to become a more open person spiritually/philosophically.

[Actor]

I believe there is a God of some kind, but not the god from the bible or any specific religion. What led me to believe in a god of some kind is:

The apparent intelligence behind some life forms, I believe in evolution, but I don’t believe it is a random, undirected process because some creatures have such brilliant survival techniques that it’s almost like they knew what to evolve into. Also, how DNA “knows” how to repair itself.

Also, if we are here for absolutely no reason, then that would mean nothing has a purpose. But your body does have a purpose, to keep going. All kinds of different parts, different cells working together for a single purpose. And if there is no purpose, where did the concept of purpose come from? Our mind…Where did intelligence come from? If we’re just a random assembly of parts over time, no original intelligence, how did intelligence come into being from a total mindless process?

Another thing that I wonder is why am I this body? How did I go from totally not existing to this. Because my parents had sex etc but that doesn’t really answer the question. Billions of people have been born, and thousands of others were born the same exact day as me and obviously I’m not them.

Another reason for my belief if the First cause argument; the universe is not infinite, it had a beginning. At one point none of this existed. The only way for that to happen is something eternal bringing it into existence.

[ACE_187]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Science proving evolution along with the inherent wickedness of humanity = destruction of any religious fantasies.

It sure is good to be the smart one my limited area of society

Not really. I'm a darwinist and I still believe in something. Time and Space do not make sense without something being higher than us. But most religion is bullshit to keep people weak. Strength is right and weakness is evil. Men were put here to fight for power and the right to exist. mine is not to reason why, mine is but to do and die.

and why do I think this? Logic.

[Gun Lover]

Originally Posted by ilovesawedoffpump

Time and Space do not make sense without something being higher than us.

Would you care to elaborate? Without sounding like a contentious asshole, I'm curious as to what logic proves this.

Strength is right and weakness is evil. Men were put here to fight for power and the right to exist.

These views are subjective, merely opinions. Of course if I missed something along the way that provides indisputable evidence toward your claim, please inform me.

[ACE_187]

Originally Posted by Gun Lover

Would you care to elaborate? Without sounding like a contentious asshole, I'm curious as to what logic proves this.


These views are subjective, merely opinions. Of course if I missed something along the way that provides indisputable evidence toward your claim, please inform me.

Because space has to be eternal....or have just come from nothing.

And it's not opinions. It's like Hitler said, this is a world of eternal struggle. Right and wrong are what is subjective. That is the problem with christianity and all of the other love everyone nonsense. For one group to have something, it usually means another group has to do without. The group who has to do without can either take the short end, or fight. Me and a nigger cant "team up" and work toward a common goal, because we dont have common goals. For him to have anything is taking something off of my plate. The strong/smart were meant to conquer the weak/stupid, and that is how we evolve and get better. Religion has set us back a long way, but that is not to say you cant believe in a god, or even have religion and not be a logical person.

EDIT: I dont spend my time thinking about things like this anymore. It's just the way it is. We were put here to reproduce and kill people who are against us.

[Township Rebellion]

Originally Posted by ilovesawedoffpump

Because space has to be eternal....or have just come from nothing.

And it's not opinions. It's like Hitler said, this is a world of eternal struggle. Right and wrong are what is subjective. That is the problem with christianity and all of the other love everyone nonsense. For one group to have something, it usually means another group has to do without. The group who has to do without can either take the short end, or fight. Me and a nigger cant "team up" and work toward a common goal, because we dont have common goals. For him to have anything is taking something off of my plate. The strong/smart were meant to conquer the weak/stupid, and that is how we evolve and get better. Religion has set us back a long way, but that is not to say you cant believe in a god, or even have religion and not be a logical person.

EDIT: I dont spend my time thinking about things like this anymore. It's just the way it is. We were put here to reproduce and kill people who are against us.

We were put here to survive. Reproduction and "killing people" aren't really on the same level. Some people kill other people because it's a necessity for survival, however these are really in extreme circumstances.

In our modern society, however, modern culture has gotten to the point where killing isn't really necessary for survival. Some just do it because they're unevolved - at least, wired to do so. A "bad apple" if you will. As for other situations such as war, well... just because it's still in human nature doesn't mean it's absolutely necessary. Only to those who thrive on it.

[MarqueeMoon]

If I'm anything I'm a material nihilist (and don't flip your shit cuz I said nihilist, mine is just a sub-category of I suppose)

For me it doesn't matter if there is or is not a God. If there is no God then everything I believe stays the same. If there is a God then it must be completely indifferent to human suffering, and if it is there's no point in worshipping or even recognizing something that is indifferent to your very existence.

Human beings think they're so special, unique beings created in the image of God, many will proclaim. We have a soul, we have reason, we have culture, what a load of bull. The 'known' universe is over 13 billion years old. There has been life on earth for tens of millions of years. Human beings have been around for less than 50,000 years. And human civilization is less than 10,000 years old.

In the grand scheme of time our existence is a fucking joke. The existence of our entire species is barely a footnote in time. We think all our little shit is important, but it isn't. The entire human race could be wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow by a meteor, stray planet, anything really, and nothing in the universe would change. We can't even travel to other stars, we're basically trapped on this planet for the entirety of our existence.

Even our beliefs mean nothing. Human beings, because of our bodily necessities for sunlight, see everything good as light and clear, and because of the horrors our ancestors had to face from other animals in the jungle at night, all bad is black and unclear. We're just a single species among tens of thousands, many of which we've erased from existence, and if one of those species had evolved to our level before us they would base their morality off of their biology. For nocturnal creatures good divinity would be related to dark and evil divinity would be related to light. If our cultures evolved with dulled nerves we wouldn't associate pain with bad. If our cultures evolved adopting cannibalism we would all think cannibalism was ok. If human beings didn't get physical pleasure from sex......well you get the point

I've been able to defend my beliefs with rational logic, and despite nobody able to counter my claims they still refuse to believe, which is fine by me. That's why i'm a material nihilist, rant over.

[never]

Going to a catholic school, from age 5 to 18, has led me to believe that there is no God.

[ACE_187]

Originally Posted by Township Rebellion

We were put here to survive. Reproduction and "killing people" aren't really on the same level. Some people kill other people because it's a necessity for survival, however these are really in extreme circumstances.

In our modern society, however, modern culture has gotten to the point where killing isn't really necessary for survival. Some just do it because they're unevolved - at least, wired to do so. A "bad apple" if you will. As for other situations such as war, well... just because it's still in human nature doesn't mean it's absolutely necessary. Only to those who thrive on it.

If you are talking about modern governments, that is another thing causing us to devolve. I blame christianity for starting it, because there was always government, but before christianity it was about tribalism. What was best for your neighbor was best for you. You were all a team. Me and someone else both being born in the U.S. doesn't mean shit to me, and it doesn't mean anything for anyone else who has any sense.

And the point of surviving is to reproduce. The weak die before they do. Or at least they are supposed to. And the smart and strong live to have many children. In the U.S. the lives of the weak and stupid are valued more than anyone. Because the same people behind christianity are running our government. Think about what section 8 is. I dont pay taxes, anytime I do work, its off the books, I dont call the police, and I steal everything I need. I believe I am living the way I was meant to.

EDIT: I guess I shouldnt say causing "us" to devolve. I'm doing my part.

[LiquidIce]

98% sure no higher deity. Still have to check a few thousand other gods, but I'm not in the mood to do so, but I know all major religions are wrong in perceiving an aged pedophile in the sky.

What led me to it? A bit of anti-clericalism at first, than reading some stuff, then lots of science classes and after them doing more and more reading up on philosophical stuff.

[MarqueeMoon]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

98% sure no higher deity. Still have to check a few thousand other gods, but I'm not in the mood to do so, but I know all major religions are wrong in perceiving an aged pedophile in the sky.

What led me to it? A bit of anti-clericalism at first, than reading some stuff, then lots of science classes and after them doing more and more reading up on philosophical stuff.

Why not become a member of my religion? No God, no afterlife, and every new member gets an 8 ball of coke and a handgun with 1 bullet

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by MarqueeMoon

Why not become a member of my religion? No God, no afterlife, and every new member gets an 8 ball of coke and a handgun with 1 bullet

Because I like sex. And playing Operation:Flashpoint.

[MarqueeMoon]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Because I like sex. And playing Operation:Flashpoint.

Keep in mind the 8 ball's for you and the bullet's for God, it's symbolic, although the confusion may explain why so many people abandon the ceremony when they get to that point.....and why that one guy didn't.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by MarqueeMoon

Keep in mind the 8 ball's for you and the bullet's for God, it's symbolic, although the confusion may explain why so many people abandon the ceremony when they get to that point.....and why that one guy didn't.

Care to elaborate more?

[MarqueeMoon]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Care to elaborate more?

Haha well I already jotted down what I believe and why, but really that guy just got the wrong message. I start goin on about how there is no divine being and explaining just how insignificant everything is and before I could get to the part about not lettin it bother ya he picks up the gun and nails himself in the head....good guy.

[battybm]

Bacteria lives in our bodies by the millions and to their unique perspective, if you wish to call it that, sees us in our entirety as a universe in itself. It is very egotistical to believe we are the end all the be all and furthermore to assume that something higher does not exist, and this being does not necessarily have to be "god", and to fathom that this deity created us for some special unique purpose when you have such grand vastness and potential screaming across the cosmos. We are simply animals on a planet consistently going through evolutionary cycles that coincide along with the planet Earth and we are subject to the rules of the universe, which remarkably some assume can be narrowed down to a single math equation. Finding the origins of the universe is like trying to find the start of a circle.

[Nolte]

Originally Posted by MarqueeMoon

Why not become a member of my religion? No God, no afterlife, and every new member gets an 8 ball of coke and a handgun with 1 bullet

nihilism + drugs = suicide?

[Jamie "fuck constipation" Lee Curtis]

I basically believe that

there is no recognizable divine presence, such as God, in the universe, and that humans are particularly insignificant in the larger scheme of intergalactic existence, and perhaps are just a small species projecting their own mental idolatries onto the vast cosmos, ever susceptible to being wiped from existence at any moment. This also suggested that the majority of undiscerning humanity are creatures with the same significance as insects in a much greater struggle between greater forces which, due to humanity's small, visionless and unimportant nature, it does not recognize.

Because I can see my own human limitations and realize I am a deterministic freak of Juice, giblets, and electricity.

[Rizzo in a box]

Originally Posted by Follow the White Rabbit

nihilism + drugs = suicide?

Really? Sounds like a great recipe for creativity, to me.

[Agros]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

Really? Sounds like a great recipe for creativity, to me.

Drugs are a cure for nihilism aren't they?

[Rocko]

Logical and conscious thought. Overwhelming factual, literal, scientific evidence verses blind obedience and belief in a 2000-year-old book written by random people and revised and edited more times than anyone can count. Complete lack of personal experience in anything even approaching the supernatural. Bearing firsthand witness to the mental damage that religious indoctrination causes to people that otherwise might have been intelligent, contributing members of society.

[Sir Cornwell]

Originally Posted by Follow the White Rabbit

Could you please elaborate?

Have you ever followed the White Rabbit? Down down the dark ladder where your mind and reality intersect?

[Nachismo]

Follow the White Rabbit:

I want to share my experience:

When I was young I was baptized and brought up Roman Catholic.I was sincerely intrested in learning about God, and believed strongly in the church's doctrines.I went through the different sacrements, Baptism, Holy Communion, and Confirmation.I awaited the gift of the Holy Spirit at Confirmation, but didn't realize anything had changed.I didn't understand why I didn't feel different.I thought sin seperated me from this.Then I hoped when I went through the sacrement of Reconciliation this might change.Nothing.I lost faith in the church.

I seen the strength of the church, and had met many good people of different faiths, and knew that there was more to religon then simply a political religious control structure.I started searching everywhere for the keys that would give me the understanding to piece together the different parts of the spiritual puzzle.With my heart I hoped and prayed that I would one day find the kind of relationship I was looking for.

I looked everywhere, driven by an insatiable curiousity to understand the hunger that slowly ate away at me.Initially studying science helped me feel more at ease.Ultimately though, it only reinforced my material understanding, at the expense of my spiritual growth.I became disenchanted with that, and started studying different approaches to spirituality.I started studying everything spiritual I could get my hands on from books on shamanism, theology, and the occult.When I found totse, it helped opened my mind to other peoples perspectives in this and all things.My interest in psychology (especially C.Jung), positive thinking, self hypnosis, and dream work helped show me possibilities for a richer understanding of the principles behind spirituality and religon.This helped form a bridge between my mind,body, and spirit.

All this study was in vain.The harder I looked the further away my goal seemed.I always thought I was a good person, but the way I acted left a lot to be desired.I always blamed everyone else for my problems.I acted very selfish when I had opportunities to really make a difference for others.My ego motivated me in a way it shouldn't.I made many mistakes, repeatedly.Part of it was due to my age, things I felt were out of my control, but most of it was due to being self centered.When I first started looking I had good intentions, but found myself in a hell of my own creation.Everything became backward.

I got results experimenting with different things, but never what I was looking for.This was often the only evidence that there was more behind the scenes of life, then appears.It took much blood, sweat, and tears for me to get to the point where I realized it was never about me.When I honestly started practicing looking from a more pure perspective, things gradually started to change.The pace accelerated and I started meeting people, and situations that offered lessons I never recognized before.When the student is ready the teacher appears.

I started looking inside myself after somebody found me, who cared enough to explain to me the answers to questions that had plagued me for an eternity.After having learned alot about myself throughout the years, I had seen a future of only suffering on a never ending wheel of cause and effect.This person was able to talk to me in a way nobody else had, and showed a level of compassion I had forgotten existed.Realizing where he was coming from, was initially very comforting.His message though felt like a nuclear bomb going of in my head.Afterwards, fear overwhelmed me.I realized the truth of things I had done, their weight became unbearable.I thought I was going to die.A part of me died. Psychosis set in.

The mania I experienced before psychosis felt good compared to where I found myself afterwards.It felt like I was in a horrible abyss where everything was terrifying.I experienced thoughts and feelings that words don't do justice describing.Paranoia of the worst kind was the predominant emotion, as I struggled to make sense of which perceptions were reasonable and which were my imagination trying to talk to me.I experienced visions that filled in a lot of the blanks intuitively.My friends and family encouraged me to seek medical help.I was hospitalized.

In the hospital the diagnosed me as being bipolar.My thoughts had been racing for so long before getting the rest I needed.I was able to think clearly and size up my life's journey to that point, for the first time.Looking back, I was able to peice together my experiences in a way I would have never without getting help.I felt more balanced, and realized the possibility of the new beginning I always wanted, but never thought would be given to me.

I started working on healing myself emotionally, and my relationships in my life.Things improved for the better in a way I didn't think was possible.I feel a good presence with me now, and my psychosis, and paranoia, was something I needed to work through to get with to this place.Only by facing my demons, and worst fears was I able to get here.Without the love of my friends, and family, I don't know if I'd be typing this though.Love makes the difference between life and death, and the way I was living before, I felt dead.

Now I can see a way out of the pit I dug for myself.Something happened to me that makes me feel connected to life, the way I always wanted to be.When I practice doing good things, and helping others I feel it personally.I'm practicing trying to cultivate love, and sometimes it feels like it could be agape.I feel help coming from unexpected places and am learning spiritually in a very personal way.Looking back on my wishes when I was younger, most of them have come true.I feel blessed, and thought it would take my whole life to get to this place.Karma isn't the unsurmontable challenge that scared me before, and I feel a personal connection to the source of all things good.



TL/DR


I was raised Catholic.I lost my faith after nothing happened after the sacrements of Confirmation and Reconciliation.I looked everywhere I could find.Fucked up everything searching for something missing.Started doing things for the right reasons instead of the ego.I slowly became manic (information overload?).Met someone coming from the good place.He explained to me where I fucked up.I became psychotic due to fear and paranoia stemming from realizing the responsibility of my previous actions.I worked out stuff emotionally.I feel love and agape (occasionally) and most of my prayers have been answered.

[MarqueeMoon]

Originally Posted by Agros

Drugs are a cure for nihilism aren't they?

Meh a little, frankly it's like knowing oceans are blue, but everyone keeps saying they're red. Even if you just go along with everyone and say the oceans are red you know deep down they're blue and nothing, not even drugs, can change that.

[Rizzo in a box]

Really? Because the ocean itself isn't blue, nor is blue anything in and of itself, and if you don't look at it, how do you even know it has a color?

[Winter]

Dont believe in god.

-No proof.
-Too many contradictions with religion.
-Drugs helped me think about it.
-Totse/internet in general helped.

[LiquidIce]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

Really? Because the ocean itself isn't blue, nor is blue anything in and of itself, and if you don't look at it, how do you even know it has a color?

Or maybe it's the blue that's ocean?

[Ambient]

Originally Posted by LiquidIce

Still have to check a few thousand other gods, but I'm not in the mood to do so, but I know all major religions are wrong in perceiving an aged pedophile in the sky.

Try Spinoza/Leibniz/Einstein/Jain/Shankara's God. Its all varieties of impersonalism.

[battybm]

Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box

Really? Because the ocean itself isn't blue, nor is blue anything in and of itself, and if you don't look at it, how do you even know it has a color?

Because of sensory experience. I remember my philosophy teacher telling me of a story how at one point in time a traveler went to India and described solid blocks of water to one of the inhabitants of a local village. These people could not conceive the idea of ice because they have never had the chance to experience the sensation of a colder climate. The combination of experience and acceptance creates a blue ocean. The human experience leaves us very wanting.