Looking for advice on guitar

[Cito]

Tiny back story, was a music performance major in college, majored in french horn for couple years all nerdy lame blah blah, went on to play drums in a local bar 'country' band.

anyhow so I can read music and such, but the years have went by and I've sorta fallen out of my old musical ways so to speak.

So I got to thinking, I've never played guitar, and I'd like to learn. But I'm not committed to paying the thousands I did on my french horn (2,500 french horn) back when I bought it. Mainly because I'm not fully committed as of yet, but I'd like to give it a shot and try something totally new and see how well I can do with some simple basic stuff.


So I got to looking around, places like zzsound or guitarcenter.com, have some "value packs" for beginners randing from 79.99 for what I think is a noname guitar, to $199 for fender starcaster , epiphone les paul, ibanez starter packs that include replacement strings, bag, small amp, tuner, guitar, strap.

What would be the better quality or best purchase for a beginner, I've searched around and seen some demos on youtube and whatnot, I've seen the arguments about pickups, such as the starcaster doesn't have humbuckers and some people on some forums claim that it's a must have.


So you guitar players, if any wanna give some advice for a complete and total noob about guitars I'd appreciate it. I'm just looking for a nice little beginner electric guitar pack to get me started.

Thanks...

[The Jitterskull]

Originally Posted by Cito

majored in french horn for couple years all nerdy lame blah blah

Whoever told you it's nerdy and lame to do french horn is a faggot.

So I got to thinking, I've never played guitar, and I'd like to learn. But I'm not committed to paying the thousands I did on my french horn (2,500 french horn) back when I bought it. Mainly because I'm not fully committed as of yet, but I'd like to give it a shot and try something totally new and see how well I can do with some simple basic stuff.

For a decent amp and guitar that you can solo off of properly, maybe 400$ guitar + 500$ amp

So you guitar players, if any wanna give some advice for a complete and total noob about guitars I'd appreciate it. I'm just looking for a nice little beginner electric guitar pack to get me started.

Thanks...

1) Humbuckers I haven't tried, but BE CAREFUL with recommendations on the net. Always try them out for yourself. I personally want an ESP, but I like lots of soloing (See Nevermore, Wintersun, Gamma Ray...etc)

2) What do you like listening to? Metal? Rock? You need basically an artist to inspire you. I hate saying this but you need to have a band that does really tricky stuff, because it drives you towards that. Listen to some Nevermore solos (See: This Godless Endeavor album) and I can play that. It took ~3-4 years to be able to sweep most things, and I can do any scale or almost any configuration.

3) Get lessons if you can, from a guy that LIKES your style of music. If you like jazz and take lessons from a metal guy (or vice-versa) you will be turned off your instrument.

[Cito]

Well in college as stated in my first post, I did major in french horn, but as a music performance major we were required to sorta branch out and since I had played drums for the high school jazz band I also did so in college Jazz ensemble.

I've always been a fan of jazz/blues guitar, my taste in music nowdays leads me to more ambient/trip hop type stuff but in rock I prefer the older stuff. Clapton, Hendrix, Vaughn, But I also enjoy stuff such as Nightwish.

There won't be a band really, just me learning a new instrument at home for personal enjoyment.

[Jukebox_Hero]

You majored in french horn? lol

The $80-$200 you're looking to spend on a new beginner guitar would be much better spent on a used one that's a step up.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by Cito

Tiny back story, was a music performance major in college, majored in french horn for couple years all nerdy lame blah blah, went on to play drums in a local bar 'country' band.

anyhow so I can read music and such, but the years have went by and I've sorta fallen out of my old musical ways so to speak.

So I got to thinking, I've never played guitar, and I'd like to learn. But I'm not committed to paying the thousands I did on my french horn (2,500 french horn) back when I bought it. Mainly because I'm not fully committed as of yet, but I'd like to give it a shot and try something totally new and see how well I can do with some simple basic stuff.


So I got to looking around, places like zzsound or guitarcenter.com, have some "value packs" for beginners randing from 79.99 for what I think is a noname guitar, to $199 for fender starcaster , epiphone les paul, ibanez starter packs that include replacement strings, bag, small amp, tuner, guitar, strap.

What would be the better quality or best purchase for a beginner, I've searched around and seen some demos on youtube and whatnot, I've seen the arguments about pickups, such as the starcaster doesn't have humbuckers and some people on some forums claim that it's a must have.


So you guitar players, if any wanna give some advice for a complete and total noob about guitars I'd appreciate it. I'm just looking for a nice little beginner electric guitar pack to get me started.

Thanks...

I have a vast range of guitars both cheap and expensive and still have my starter guitar. My recent purchase was an Ibanez Jem which anyone can play and sound good - it is that easy. That being said there are a lot of starter guitars that are utter crap, high action, rubbish necks and the frets aint much better.

I've tried most of the starter packs here (in the UK) including the SOB from BC Rich, I wasn't impressed. My starter guitar was a Westfield E1000 (the strat style, not the les paul). It is - as far as learning guitars go - one of the best out there however the action on it is pretty poor. The fret's aint too bad, they're not going to cut your finger off any time soon and the sound is quite bluesy / harsh when needed.

As for epiphone les pauls and any guitar with a thicker neck - it is an absolute bitch to play on. I've been playing now almost 8 years and the weight of my lp AND the neck thickness start to grate on me at a gig however some people quite like the chunky feel of these guitars - I am simply not one of them.

So it all comes down to money, if you are going to go the cheap route here are my recommendations:
Westfield E1000 Strat.
If you have a little more money to throw into the pile look into getting an Ibanez with a Wizard neck, absolute dreams to play on and let's be frank - any instrument that is under $150 is going to sound like $150.

Whatever you do, try it out in the shop for weight, both on your leg and shoulder, thickness of the neck (it a strain on your thumb if its too thick) and the sound (if you're not confident then ask the clerk to play something on a clean amp to hear the tone).

And whatever you do - make sure that mother fucker is comfy on your leg - you're gonna be there a while with that thing!

[cheech]

I started with a squier fat strat beginners pack for 250 aussie dollars, so 220 us. reason i got the fat strat was cos it had a humbucker pickup, rather than just single coil pickups. its a great pack to get started. guitar wasnt that good, for example the tremolo would speak and break if i used it after the first time, but it was good enough for my first year of guitar. comes with amp, strap, picks, tuner, cables, headphones, everything.

in the second year i bought a schecter hellraiser avenger, hell yeah, but i still use my squier strat from time to time.

[optl]

Ebay. Don't spend only $200. If you can spend 300 you can get some decent used stuff.

[Cito]

ok I really appreciate it guys, and yea I was looking at a budget of perhaps 200-300 bucks Just to get me started that is, once start learning the ropes and I see that I will put time into it and enjoy it more I will of course upgrade, and addons/pedals etc...

Appreciate the info, none of the people around me play guitar so was looking for some player advice.

[cheech]

Originally Posted by Unwyred

The only thing I'd recommend you do after getting a starter kit guitar is to replace the strings with better ones. Most starter packs come with shit strings. I recommend either Dean Markley Blue Steel or D'Addario EXL115-10P Nickel Blues/Jazz strings.

Strings will degrade in a month, so I reckon some cheap bullets will suffice, unless you really get serious with your playing.

[psycho_8b]

Nothing wrong with brass instruments dude. I loved playing trumpet when I was a kid. If I had the lungs for it now days I'd grab one!
Besides, you get strong lips and tongue from playing brass instruments...Any woman who thinks a strong mouth and stamina is nerdy is a fucking idiot!

My first guitar was a Yamaha ERG121 starter pack with a little 10 watt amp, gig bag, instruction book. I used to play that all the time until I really got into it. Now I'm rocking a Gibson SG.

My advice would be to go with one of these starter packs. If you like playing guitar, you can spring for a better guitar and amp. If you decide it's not your instrument, you won't have wasted a shit load of money.

[Cito]

Any opinions on this starter pack, I found some cheaper Squier's but this one is the HSS i guess that means it comes with a humbucker.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...ack?sku=512577

the fender site about it
http://www.squierguitars.com/product...tno=0301620025

$350 bucks for that pretty much everywhere

or

I could cheap out and this one doesn't have the humbucker or the fancy amp

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender-S...38-i1177837.gc

$199

any thoughts between the 2?

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by Cito

Any opinions on this starter pack, I found some cheaper Squier's but this one is the HSS i guess that means it comes with a humbucker.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...ack?sku=512577

the fender site about it
http://www.squierguitars.com/product...tno=0301620025

$350 bucks for that pretty much everywhere

or

I could cheap out and this one doesn't have the humbucker or the fancy amp

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender-S...38-i1177837.gc

$199

any thoughts between the 2?

go for the one with the humbuckler. You'll thank me later (either if you go to sell / continue to play)

[ergoat]

Personally, I'd go with the second one. You're not going to get much of a difference in sound as a beginner, you don't really need a humbucker or a valve amp. Save the $150 and if you like guitar, put it towards something better if you want.

Shoot, I can't afford/don't want to buy a new guitar at the moment, so I'm still drilling away on my old squier strat.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by Wood

Personally, I'd go with the second one. You're not going to get much of a difference in sound as a beginner, you don't really need a humbucker or a valve amp. Save the $150 and if you like guitar, put it towards something better if you want.

Shoot, I can't afford/don't want to buy a new guitar at the moment, so I'm still drilling away on my old squier strat.

Exactly why he should buy the better one, so he would be content with it for longer. With the valve amp thats a fantastic deal and from a reserved view point - better chance of getting most of your money back with the first package.

[ergoat]

Originally Posted by SexyWoodenSpoon

Exactly why he should buy the better one, so he would be content with it for longer. With the valve amp thats a fantastic deal and from a reserved view point - better chance of getting most of your money back with the first package.

Eh, depends on his budget, level of interest, and I have no idea what the resale value is like in your country. Over here, you get pretty much dirt for any beginner gear. People see Squier and they don't care what model it is.

[optl]

Beginner gear has no resale value. If you buy something nicer you could even make a profit selling it back. I own a Lowden O10c cedar/magoheny acoustic guitar. I paid $1300 for it; it's used and the face is worn a bit. But this guitar sells for $3500 brand new. I've been playing the guitar for years and could sell it back whenever potentially for a profit. Buy something used from ebay, so you can atleast get some of your money back if you decide you don't want to play (most people quit or just play once a month).

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by Wood

Eh, depends on his budget, level of interest, and I have no idea what the resale value is like in your country. Over here, you get pretty much dirt for any beginner gear. People see Squier and they don't care what model it is.

Maybe so. I am biased though. Generally beginners stuff is cheap as chips over here unless its unused or special in some form.

The humbuckler would give a nice punch and the amp would give you a slightly warmer sound BUT as Wood said... is it worth $150 for an amp and a pickup?

My recommendation: try and get a shot of both, maybe get a clerk to play with the same guitar on both amps then the more expensive one (if this is an option) so you can hear the difference. Just remember it is $150 extra.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by optl

Beginner gear has no resale value. If you buy something nicer you could even make a profit selling it back. I own a Lowden O10c cedar/magoheny acoustic guitar. I paid $1300 for it; it's used and the face is worn a bit. But this guitar sells for $3500 brand new. I've been playing the guitar for years and could sell it back whenever potentially for a profit. Buy something used from ebay, so you can atleast get some of your money back if you decide you don't want to play (most people quit or just play once a month).

I think in this dudes case a budget is required. I did mention an ibanez that might softly break him into the swing but he needs to then get an amp too which could cost almost double.

The reason why most people quit is for the following reason: "WAAAAAAAH! My fingers hurt!!!"

[optl]

Originally Posted by SexyWoodenSpoon

Maybe so. I am biased though. Generally beginners stuff is cheap as chips over here unless its unused or special in some form.

The humbuckler would give a nice punch and the amp would give you a slightly warmer sound BUT as Wood said... is it worth $150 for an amp and a pickup?

My recommendation: try and get a shot of both, maybe get a clerk to play with the same guitar on both amps then the more expensive one (if this is an option) so you can hear the difference. Just remember it is $150 extra.

Also remember at most stores, guitar center especially, all the guitars have dead strings on them and sound like shit. Strings make a huge impact on the sound, much more so than the wood the guitar is made out of.

[Cito]

Yea I'm on a tight budget, highest I could go would be 400 at this time, mainly was looking to get a pack.

I'm really leaning toward the
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...ack?sku=512577


with that G dec amp I just saw 3 youtube vids tutorial showing off the $350 pack with Squier HSS
Pt1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZK-RQth0os
Pt 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udL2NFpUC3k
Pt 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfcoKcGHKo

That amp seems pretty nice from a beginners perspective that is.

Just mainly looking to get started without breaking bank, and heck I'm not too worried about resale value, I have an 8 year old son, so If I decide to upgrade and go for it, I'll just give it to my son lol

I'm 33, so it's not like I'm going to be some great rock star, I'm just looking to enjoy a new instrument, and a new hobby to mess around with.

Of course I'd probably pick up some extra strings when I purchase.

This Squier HSS with Gdec amp pack for 350 most places, seems pretty cool for my budget. That 3 part youtube vid is pretty neat in parts 2 and 3 shows off the 16 effects and loops of the amp.

I dunno, just been reading and researching on it for about 2 weeks, and I've always like the strat look, but like I said I'm roughly on a $400 budget for this.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by optl

Also remember at most stores, guitar center especially, all the guitars have dead strings on them and sound like shit. Strings make a huge impact on the sound, much more so than the wood the guitar is made out of.

Absolutely, I use 10 - 52's Ernie balls skinny top heavy bottoms. They sound pretty decent indeed.

Originally Posted by Cito

Yea I'm on a tight budget, highest I could go would be 400 at this time, mainly was looking to get a pack.

I'm really leaning toward the
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...ack?sku=512577


with that G dec amp I just saw 3 youtube vids tutorial showing off the $350 pack with Squier HSS
Pt1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZK-RQth0os
Pt 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udL2NFpUC3k
Pt 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfcoKcGHKo

That amp seems pretty nice from a beginners perspective that is.

Just mainly looking to get started without breaking bank, and heck I'm not too worried about resale value, I have an 8 year old son, so If I decide to upgrade and go for it, I'll just give it to my son lol

I'm 33, so it's not like I'm going to be some great rock star, I'm just looking to enjoy a new instrument, and a new hobby to mess around with.

Of course I'd probably pick up some extra strings when I purchase.

This Squier HSS with Gdec amp pack for 350 most places, seems pretty cool for my budget. That 3 part youtube vid is pretty neat in parts 2 and 3 shows off the 16 effects and loops of the amp.

I dunno, just been reading and researching on it for about 2 weeks, and I've always like the strat look, but like I said I'm roughly on a $400 budget for this.

See if they'll throw in a pack of strings, they should only be about a fiver or so. most definitely restring ASAP.

[Cito]

What strings do you recommend me get for that? not too hard on the noob fingers

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by Cito

What strings do you recommend me get for that? not too hard on the noob fingers

Problem is mate any strings apart from nylons are gonna hurt. Elixir have a good range, I swear by earnie ball.

[Cito]

yea, I remember back when I was 14 or 15, I had an old acoustic guitar my dad gave me, and yea it was sore fingers for while, but no pain no gain eh

I appreciate all the info, helps the confidence some when going into a music store, or reading online, couple music stores we have local when you walk in it feels like a car dealership they want to sell you something and sell it immediately even if it's just a kazoo

[CK-]

Don't even think about going near a guitar unless you've done 3-4 grams of cocaine.

[Cito]

Originally Posted by CK-

Don't even think about going near a guitar unless you've done 3-4 grams of cocaine.

ROFL

So that is how guitars get expensive...

[Rocko]

Originally Posted by Cito

ROFL

So that is how guitars get expensive...

"It's a party, man, just keep the bowls full."

$30,000 bill the next morning.

I learned to play on an Aria Les Paul. I love humbuckers dearly, and it was all-around a decent guitar to learn on, even though the neck was a bit wimpy and the tuners sucked. IMO, pick out something you like from Epiphone or Ibanez. Schecter's base models are pretty good for the money as well. Don't be afraid to go used, you'll enjoy it more if you aren't playing on a $100 Squier piece of shit. I can't really help you on the amp, except to parrot the common opinion that Line 6 Spiders are fucking abhorrent.

You have any friends you could borrow a guitar from? You'll be able to make a much more informed decision after playing daily for a few months and doing some basic research. That Aria actually belongs to my dad, it was nice not to worry about picking out a first guitar or being under pressure to force myself to learn to justify spending money.

[optl]

I don't know much about electric strings, I play strictley acoustic and always have. I do own a mexican strat with some badass seymour duncan pickups. But for strings, for the acoustic I use elixer phosphorus bronze 80-20'ss. Elixer makes coated strings that last much longer. I play a 1-3 hours a day on average and I play hard with my fingers and a very thick thumbpick; ernie balls die in 2 playing sessions for me; elixers last much longer but cost almost twice as much but sound better IMO.

Also, I agree, definitely try to haggle a pack of strings when you pickup your guitar; they will negotiate a little at most music stores.

[Cito]

yea I will probably pull my old haggle line of "well if you toss in pack of xxx strings, I'll buy it all right now!" usually works on other stuff around here locally especially how the market is stores desperately want that sale, so getting a free pack of strings should be no problem.


Just figuring out what strings to get, looks like I have chosen

Fender Squier Affinity HSS
here's a pic of one
http://www.stevesmusic.com/images/at...at_HSS_Std.jpg

I read earlier mention of Daddario strings?
just curious what is a good size for this guitar? I don't want too heavy a gauge, and something easily replaced without having to adjust the truss bar I think it's called.

or whatever brand, just what's a nice replacement size for good action, not too much stress on this cheaper guitar and sounds pretty good.

[cheech]

Looking at your two options, I reckon get the cheap one. It's not worth an extra 150 dollars for a over-the-top amp with many features that you will never use, and a humbucker pickup.

And Daddario strings are good. I use 'em, lasts about a month before it goes mellow, but then you play jazz . A good gauge to start out would prolly be 9-42. That's standard on most strats imo. If you wanna up to 11-48 you'll have to get the guitar set up again, action and truss rod.

And when changing the strings, don't remove all the strings at once. Do it once at a time so the neck is still under some tension and doesn't bend too much.

And replacement size for action!?!?!?

[Cito]

Originally Posted by cheech

Looking at your two options, I reckon get the cheap one. It's not worth an extra 150 dollars for a over-the-top amp with many features that you will never use, and a humbucker pickup.

And Daddario strings are good. I use 'em, lasts about a month before it goes mellow, but then you play jazz . A good gauge to start out would prolly be 9-42. That's standard on most strats imo. If you wanna up to 11-48 you'll have to get the guitar set up again, action and truss rod.

And when changing the strings, don't remove all the strings at once. Do it once at a time so the neck is still under some tension and doesn't bend too much.

And replacement size for action!?!?!?

ah ok, will do the lower gauge, so don't have to get it all set back up, and easier on the fingers I'd guess till I build them up. Thanks for the tip on changing 1 string at a time, although if I get the dealer to toss in a set of strings I may ask him to restring it before I walk out. But good to know in future about 1 string at a time.

Appreciate the info, looks like I will be picking everything up this monday.

[optl]

Originally Posted by Cito

ah ok, will do the lower gauge, so don't have to get it all set back up, and easier on the fingers I'd guess till I build them up. Thanks for the tip on changing 1 string at a time, although if I get the dealer to toss in a set of strings I may ask him to restring it before I walk out. But good to know in future about 1 string at a time.

Appreciate the info, looks like I will be picking everything up this monday.

I've heard the 1 string at a time thing is a myth. But I know it's not good to leave a guitar unstrung for an extended period of time.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by optl

I've heard the 1 string at a time thing is a myth. But I know it's not good to leave a guitar unstrung for an extended period of time.

1 string at a time is a myth... UNLESS you have a floating trem (Cito this won't apply to you). My Ibanez is a bitch to restring with the floating trem (plus It's the only guitar my gauge goes funny - 46:12's).

Cito as optl states- its purely a myth. Restring the bastard by taking ALL strings off, clean the thing down with a wet wipe (stops any crap from it lying about interfering) pay particular attention to the fret board and remove all that plastic shite from the pick guard. Restring from new, there's thousands of youtube vids on how to restring a strat, look them up.

And another thing to note is that there are different thicknesses of plecta... thinner are better for shredding (and learning), thicker are better for block chords and could maybe hinder the learning process. Just something to think about mate.

[Cito]

Thanks! Appreciate the info

[cheech]

Oh I didn't know it was a myth. I was told to do that on my squier or not the neck will warp . meh.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by cheech

Oh I didn't know it was a myth. I was told to do that on my squier or not the neck will warp . meh.

Those people are obviously not doing what they are supposed to. The neck will only warp if:

1. You haven't restrung it in a while (even this takes years)
2. Leaving it infront of a radiator (heat / cool every day expands and contracts too much)

I'm actually a fucking weirdo when it comes to my guitars, if I've gigged somewhere and bring my gear home I let them climatise in their cases for 24 hours before removing.

[optl]

Originally Posted by SexyWoodenSpoon

Those people are obviously not doing what they are supposed to. The neck will only warp if:

1. You haven't restrung it in a while (even this takes years)
2. Leaving it infront of a radiator (heat / cool every day expands and contracts too much)

I'm actually a fucking weirdo when it comes to my guitars, if I've gigged somewhere and bring my gear home I let them climatise in their cases for 24 hours before removing.

SexyWoodenSpoon I definitely understand worrying about guitars warping. It's even scarier IMO for acoustics. I play this:
http://www.elderly.com/items/images/...8717_front.jpg

The face is made of cedar which is so fragile you can scratch it with your nail.

I humidify the room it's in. I never keep it in it's case even though I probably should.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by optl

SexyWoodenSpoon I definitely understand worrying about guitars warping. It's even scarier IMO for acoustics. I play this:
http://www.elderly.com/items/images/...8717_front.jpg

The face is made of cedar which is so fragile you can scratch it with your nail.

I humidify the room it's in. I never keep it in it's case even though I probably should.

Thats beautiful mate. In my experience the amount of players that don't bother with climatising their gear is atrocious. I once had a guy moan that his body cracked for "no apparent reason"... he kept them in front of a radiator, not only that the sun would hit them at certain peiods of the day causing them to heat up and cool down 3 or 4 times a day. Ridiculous.

[optl]

Originally Posted by SexyWoodenSpoon

Thats beautiful mate. In my experience the amount of players that don't bother with climatising their gear is atrocious. I once had a guy moan that his body cracked for "no apparent reason"... he kept them in front of a radiator, not only that the sun would hit them at certain peiods of the day causing them to heat up and cool down 3 or 4 times a day. Ridiculous.

Wow. That's crazy. People who appreciate their instruments usually take better care them. I would rather something happen to me than me guitar honestly; I would cry like a baby if my guitar somehow got permanently damaged.

[SexyWoodenSpoon]

Originally Posted by optl

Wow. That's crazy. People who appreciate their instruments usually take better care them. I would rather something happen to me than me guitar honestly; I would cry like a baby if my guitar somehow got permanently damaged.

You should see my house insurance bill... I'm the same. There's something to be said about appreciation of your instruments. I would pretty much cry too if anyone stole or damaged my guitars.

Actually I put my Ibanez into a guitar store to restring it (floating trem and I forgot the gauge I used plus I wanted it set up 100% to my req's). They fucked up and didn't tighten the trem properly resulting in the scratch plate rubbing against the trem. You can hardly spot it but I was absolutely fucking raging. Ever since then nobody touches my gear.