china going to collapse

[crackhead]

Does this mean jobs will comeback to America?

http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/...etire-planning

[Sir Cornwell]

IDK. I do know that shitheads everywhere are only too glad to help out their buddies, regardless if it's honest or anywhere near the right thing to do. Especially if fraud and graft will lead to the linings of many a pocket.

China is certainly not much on honesty and regulation. Kind of like Wall Street.

Time for the Fat Cats to have a heart attack.

[Azure]

"China is not in a bubble."

That's the only part of the article you need to read.

[LSA King]

Originally Posted by Azure

"China is not in a bubble."

That's the only part of the article you need to read.

This. To say China is going to collapse before the U.S. is inaccurate. China may collapse partially if the U.S. does mainly because both countries are so financially and economically intertwined.

[a334jv2df]

If China released their gold storage into circulation the US would spiral into the fucking ground.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by LSA King

This. To say China is going to collapse before the U.S. is inaccurate. China may collapse partially if the U.S. does mainly because both countries are so financially and economically intertwined.

And so will 90% of the rest of the world. The US is not going to fall anytime soon, and certainly not to the extent where it would cease to exist as an economic and political superpower. Your lifetime, as well as your children's lifetime will continue to be a multipolar set up, with the US, China and likely India continuing to dominate.

[Oink The Pig]

itt a bunch of people that have no idea whats going on in international economy randomly spewing second assed guesses

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Azure

And so will 90% of the rest of the world. The US is not going to fall anytime soon, and certainly not to the extent where it would cease to exist as an economic and political superpower. Your lifetime, as well as your children's lifetime will continue to be a multipolar set up, with the US, China and likely India continuing to dominate.

You wish. America is going down. The remaininng superpowers in 20-odd years will be China, India, Russia and the EU.

Seriously, the US has a titanic deficit, the slowest recovery out of almost any country after the recession, a very weak dollar... Once the arabs stop selling oil in dollars and move, probably into Euros and a spread of other currencies, that will it for America as the one sole superpower.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Shrike

You wish. America is going down. The remaininng superpowers in 20-odd years will be China, India, Russia and the EU.

Oh, okay.

[Ocalan]

Good i hate china

[Sir Cornwell]

If a man wears a suit: TV says he is right and honest.

If a man wears a suit: he is good.

If a man wears a suit: believe him.

[FireStarter]

The article is about one guy's opinion of what it so come. Doesn't mean it will happen.

[Star Wars Fan]

Its surging real estate sector, buoyed by a flood of speculative capital, looks like "Dubai times 1,000 -- or worse," he frets.

hahaha no China has a big industrial base, unlike Dubai which doesn't have much else than finance and tourism

"Bubbles are best identified by credit excesses, not valuation excesses," he said in a recent appearance on CNBC. "And there's no bigger credit excess than in China.

Dubai has most of its' economy based off tourism & shit, China has a larger percentage of its' economy in manufacturing. It may have a larger in number credit 'bubble', but it has a larger manufacturing base to rely on/use as a base.

"The Chinese," he warned in an interview in November with Politico.com, "are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell."

This seems more likely.

[Sir Cornwell]

And it's stock market and banking system regulated by favors/bj's/hookers and BS?

[Vizier]

Originally Posted by Sir Cornwell

If a man wears a suit: TV says he is right and honest.

If a man wears a suit: he is good.

If a man wears a suit: believe him.

Lawyers wear suits. Fuck them.

[Sir Cornwell]

Suits wear suits: fuck 'em!

China is a regular Mexico. Suits get what they like, as for the rest?

HAH! Mind you in China before the recession there was an article in the LA Times with interviews with factory girls in the Pearl Delta. They were living in dorms and sending 1/2 their money back to their villages. Not the kind of thing easy to do in Mexico's Maquiladoras or so I hear.

[HTS]

Originally Posted by Shrike

You wish. America is going down. The remaininng superpowers in 20-odd years will be China, India, Russia and the EU.

Seriously, the US has a titanic deficit, the slowest recovery out of almost any country after the recession, a very weak dollar... Once the arabs stop selling oil in dollars and move, probably into Euros and a spread of other currencies, that will it for America as the one sole superpower.

LOL

I can't take you seriously just because you mentioned Russia as a superpower.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HTS

LOL

I can't take you seriously just because you mentioned Russia as a superpower.

You shoved a writing utensil up your ass for pleasure.

/srsns

[face_smack360]

Originally Posted by HTS

LOL

I can't take you seriously just because you mentioned Russia as a superpower.

To you a hi liter is a superpower.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by HTS

I can't take you seriously just because you mentioned Russia as a superpower.

I'd expect Russia would re-grow its' former strength to some extent. Before the economy went to shit last year it was well on that way. It's not going to be so hard for them to continue on their recovery. they still have shitloads of siberian oil and contest reserves in Central Asia that isn't owned by Russia and is being 'played' between Russia and the USA (Caspian Basin). Fine, "regional power" then

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by Shrike

the US has a titanic deficit, the slowest recovery out of almost any country after the recession

That's because we are the least socialist of all of them! USA! USA! USA!

China is still in deep shit.
http://moneynews.com/StreetTalk/paul...8/25/id/325026

[Rocko]

China's boom can't last forever. Eventually their workers will get sick of being slaves to the rest of the world, and start demanding better pay and working conditions. Their economy is based on dirt-cheap labor, once their ability to undercut everyone else starts to erode, they'll start to lose some of that colossal income. In the short term, all the money they've been enjoying means lots of spending, and lots of bubbles. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same sort of housing crisis in the more developed areas.

I don't see a reason to panic over one jackass screaming about impending doom. However, we were perfectly willing to ignore legitimate warnings in favor of our greed before the financial system went down. If we learn one fuckin thing about that whole catastrophe, it should be a suspicion of bull markets like China.

[FrY]

In b4 chinafail.

[Former_Member]

China is not going to collapse. China is going to keep on increasing it's relative global power for a long time yet- at the expense of the US.

The US is going to decline in power, slowly. This will come quicker in the economic sphere, but it'l be a military powerhouse for a good century yet.

Russia has never been an economic super-power, nor was the Soviet Union due to the way a communist economy works. Russia is however, more capable than it has been playing itself in military capabilities- and now it's getting more involved in international politics it will become an important, of not critical player in the rising multipolar system.

The EU could very well become another player in this system. It's unlikely to ever become the global military power ever again, but even if it doesn't become the biggest economic powerhouse; it will certainly be a very important one- almost certainly more economically important than the US after the US has its decline (Europe has already has its own, afterall). That said, the military capabilities of the EU will purely be wound up in the US-led NATO.

Basically, the word superpower needs elaboration. People refer to China as a rising super-power despite poor military capabilities due to its impending economic dominance. The Soviet Union also, was referred to as a super-power; purely on military terms despite its relative economic insignificance.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Vargus

China is still in deep shit.
http://moneynews.com/StreetTalk/paul...8/25/id/325026

Oh yeah, like i'm going to believe anything Paulson says.

[Rocko]

Originally Posted by Shrike

Oh yeah, like i'm going to believe anything Paulson says.

Paulson was the author and staunchest supporter of the Wall St. bailout, it's already been established we can't believe a single word that comes out of that fucker's mouth.

[LSA King]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

China is not going to collapse. China is going to keep on increasing it's relative global power for a long time yet- at the expense of the US.

The US is going to decline in power, slowly. This will come quicker in the economic sphere, but it'l be a military powerhouse for a good century yet.

Russia has never been an economic super-power, nor was the Soviet Union due to the way a communist economy works. Russia is however, more capable than it has been playing itself in military capabilities- and now it's getting more involved in international politics it will become an important, of not critical player in the rising multipolar system.

The EU could very well become another player in this system. It's unlikely to ever become the global military power ever again, but even if it doesn't become the biggest economic powerhouse; it will certainly be a very important one- almost certainly more economically important than the US after the US has its decline (Europe has already has its own, afterall). That said, the military capabilities of the EU will purely be wound up in the US-led NATO.

Basically, the word superpower needs elaboration. People refer to China as a rising super-power despite poor military capabilities due to its impending economic dominance. The Soviet Union also, was referred to as a super-power; purely on military terms despite its relative economic insignificance.

This. Fucking this. Now we have disagreed on a lot of things but bottom line this is how it is. Most of us American's live in this "bubble" of what we think happens in the rest of the world.

China has been moving into the Middle East for years. India and China are superpowers if you want to use the word loosely who in a sense have teamed up with one another over common interests.

Now we all hear the dog barking (politicians) at other countries but behind the scenes they are shaking hands saying: "Sorry I didn't mean what I said." Hence why you have Obama screaming at the Saudi's and other middle eastern nations and then off camera you see him bow down and kiss the King's hand like a loyal servant.

Politics is such a mind game and just being involved in them keeps you busy from the real truth, what goes on outside of politics. The political environment is just another cloak they use to keep you busy with words unable to see the truth.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by LSA King

India and China are superpowers if you want to use the word loosely who in a sense have teamed up with one another over common interests.

They still have issues over that piece of land in the Himalayas [the one they fought some wars over]. I doubt they've gotten goody two-shoes best-bud

Politics is such a mind game and just being involved in them keeps you busy from the real truth, what goes on outside of politics. The political environment is just another cloak they use to keep you busy with words unable to see the truth.

I know. We need honest politicians.
Well, at least I can write a story on 'em...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Star Wars Fan

They still have issues over that piece of land in the Himalayas [the one they fought some wars over]. I doubt they've gotten goody two-shoes best-bud

Not to mention Chinese incursions into India have increased rapidly over the last few years.

[Former_Member]

Yeah China and India aren't going to be best friends.

cba to look it up, but I think there was an open war like what- 30ish years ago? Furthermore, they are both growing (China is ahead atm)- and are both going to global super powers that are confined in the same region.

They are going to be competing for influence in the surrounding lands, and also economically. They aren't going to best buds, it could even be a new Cold-War sort of deal between them.

Anyway, looking at this from a realpolitik perspective; it can only be good for the West (Europe, US). With the west declining in relative global power compared to these two upcoming powers in the east, the west should be able to maintain the position of kingmaker.

If the western world is careful, it will still be able to exert undue influence across the globe due to being a powerful tertiary party appeased by the quarrelling east. Another important thing to remember is, though India and China are making rapid gains on the economic front (India slower than China though), it will be a fair bit longer to catch up on the military front, so the west will still have some intervionist clout.

However, in today's world the capabilities of a conventional military are much less relevant to global influence. Ultimately, due to nukes- the most important issues are still at a stalemate; it's only the smaller undeveloped countries that can be made to heel with conventional military power.

[pygar]

China will not be able to sustain 8-9% growth forvever. It will fall a little, probably after officials stop inflating statistics (or at least selectivly fucking with the data). Real growth is estimated abut about 6-8%. It won't be a collapse, it'll be a correction and stay relatively flat from then in.

America will not fall militarily or economically. It is still the leading innovator in technology and that is what matters the most.
America exports culture, china can never do that. There is no American "big brother" hell bent on keeping power. There are gigantic CEOs determined to keep a profit at any cost. America has the better "evil"

America is a stable country. Japan was considered a threat to western supremecy in the 80s-90s, they can't even pay the people age-pensions anymore.

worst case scenario we create WWIII for exactly the same reasons we had WWI.

best case scenario, china replaces germany as one of the top economic powers.

That being said, China is socially poor, sooner or latter the masses of ignored peasants will draw the line.

[not me]

Originally Posted by Vargus

That's because we are the least socialist of all of them! USA! USA! USA!

China is still in deep shit.
http://moneynews.com/StreetTalk/paul...8/25/id/325026

"We" (the U.S.) are MORE socialist than either China or Russia. Less socialist than Europe.

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

China will not be able to sustain 8-9% growth forvever. It will fall a little, probably after officials stop inflating statistics (or at least selectivly fucking with the data). Real growth is estimated abut about 6-8%. It won't be a collapse, it'll be a correction and stay relatively flat from then in.

America will not fall militarily or economically. It is still the leading innovator in technology and that is what matters the most.
America exports culture, china can never do that. There is no American "big brother" hell bent on keeping power. There are giantic CEOs determined to keep a profit at any cost. America has the better "evil"

America is a stable country. Japan was considered a threat to western supremecy in the 80s-90s, they can't even pay the people age-pensions anymore.

worst case scenario we create WWIII for exactly the same reasons we had WWI.

best case scenario, china replaces germany as one of the top economic powers.

That being said, China is socially poor, sooner or latter the masses of ignored peasants will draw the line.

That's not a sound analysis. The US is in relative decline, China won't sustain 8-9% growth forever- but it doesn't have to. It's getting bigger FAST, and it also has a huge population advantage over the US.

You can't believe that the US will remain the dominant global power merely because it currently is. Look at all of history, every superpower has rose and fallen- none have remained. The US has had its day in the sun, and no amount of blind patriotism can change that.

By our deaths, the US will only be one of many players in a multi-polar global system. By our grandchildren's deaths, the US will (like all before it)- be a has been.

[pygar]

Originally Posted by Ryan1711

That's not a sound analysis. The US is in relative decline, China won't sustain 8-9% growth forever- but it doesn't have to. It's getting bigger FAST, and it also has a huge population advantage over the US.

You can't believe that the US will remain the dominant global power merely because it currently is. Look at all of history, every superpower has rose and fallen- none have remained. The US has had its day in the sun, and no amount of blind patriotism can change that.

By our deaths, the US will only be one of many players in a multi-polar global system. By our grandchildren's deaths, the US will (like all before it)- be a has been.

You have not shown me chinese innovation. were are the chinese Multinationals? The western world still has the smartest people, the greatest innovation, the most resilience and the greatest drive.

Were is the seperation of state interests and business interests in china?

China's entire economy is based on stealing western ideas and making shoddy almost-the-same but crappy clones and having near slave-labour.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not to mention Chinese incursions into India have increased rapidly over the last few years.

heh.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

America exports culture, china can never do that.

Yes they can. If they stop censoring their media Chinese animation could surpass Japanese anime. China already has a manga grouping/market that is growing (Manhua) that isn't shitty, and I'd expect that to grow over time and as chinese animators/gamemakers/etc improve they may surpass Japan in cultural production. Though the games made and whatnot would likely end up doujinshi. Actually China did have a larger game field earlier on in the 2000s. It didn't stay big as most shit in China is pirated by default. It'll take a while as China now rips off Japanese anime, among other things like a fucking Mag-lev train

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

You have not shown me chinese innovation. were are the chinese Multinationals?

the people who built baidu (basically a chinese mash-up of *chan sites, yahoo groups. search engines like Google and social networking sites). The people who are placing all sorts of fun shit in Shanghai's public transports. the people who place anime-styled ads in Chinese public transport. The people who design the newer chinese cities

China's entire economy is based on stealing western ideas and making shoddy almost-the-same but crappy clones and having near slave-labour.

Remember Japan's economy was similar in the 1950s, their stuff being relatively-shitty. Look at Japanese electronics now, people fucking import shit from Japan that isn't released in other countries because it's that cool.

Though even n the 1950s they had cool anime

[Former_Member]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

You have not shown me chinese innovation. were are the chinese Multinationals? The western world still has the smartest people, the greatest innovation, the most resilience and the greatest drive.

Were is the seperation of state interests and business interests in china?

China's entire economy is based on stealing western ideas and making shoddy almost-the-same but crappy clones and having near slave-labour.

The western world doesn't have the smartest people, it merely is home to the institutions with the best technology at their disposal.

The modern Chinese state is not particulary innovative, it has not had to be- it will catch up in the future, but for now it does not have to.

Also, the last point of your final paragraph is somewhat skewed. China is a very authoritarian state, it has incredible resilence and over a billion people driving it forward whether they want to or not.

China has worked in the favour of business to limited extent, but only for the ultimate furthering of the state economy. I don't understand how you feel China won't be a great power due to this, they aren't idiots- they'll appease business if it will work the, they won't if it doesn't. It's a policy that is creating a strong centralised state with fast economic growth. It isn't hindering their ascent to the world stage.

Finally though, your last point doesn't really make sense. China may well merely steal ideas from the west, and do alot of their industry for them- but why does it have to do more? Stealing western ideas is afterall, cheaper than researching your own- and slave labour, though abhorrent, is clearly very effective for them.

What you seem to have done, is assess the factors generally required to succeed in our capitalist societies- and attempted to graft them on to nations on the world stage. Global politics works very different from that- China has a large population and is currently in a period of high-growth. The US has stagnated, and its economic importance wanes by the day.

[not me]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

You have not shown me chinese innovation. were are the chinese Multinationals? The western world still has the smartest people, the greatest innovation, the most resilience and the greatest drive.
Were is the seperation of state interests and business interests in china?
China's entire economy is based on stealing western ideas and making shoddy almost-the-same but crappy clones and having near slave-labour.

A few Chinese inventions: Fireworks, gunpowder, spaghetti, those ^ hats, chinese food, silk, matches, forks, noodles, paper money, chemical warfare, the use of salt, the crossbow, the flamethrower, kites, land mines, restaurant menus, steel, tea, toilet paper, and the wheelbarrow. You may have heard of some of those.

[Vargus]

Originally Posted by not me

"We" (the U.S.) are MORE socialist than either China or Russia. Less socialist than Europe.

No shit. Maybe Chairman Obama should give you some batteries for your sarcasm meter though.