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Old 01-27-2010, 09:16 AM
Aces N 8s Aces N 8s is offline
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Default Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Does anyone have any experience trying to "break through" light doses of buprenorphine with recreational opiates? What have your experiences been?

I just dosed 4mg suboxone at 12pm today and then I refilled my prescriptions at around 12 midnight. Its now 1am and I have already railed 40mg of Opana IR. Im buzzed, but not high like I should be from 40mg after not taking any oxymorphone for about 2 weeks.

My main question is this: Does buprenorphine block all effects of other opiates, including respiratory suppression and other parts that can cause OD? Or does it only block the recreational effects, and the same dose will cause you to OD even if it doesnt get you high?

Also: Since Im just asking you guys for help here I'll give you some advice than may save your life too.

As you probably know, buprenorphine in suboxone/subutex can cause precipitated withdrawal if taken while a dependent user is on opiates already. This is so because the buprenorphine has a higher receptor affinity than most recreational opiates and because of its partial agonist/antagonist properties.
. By this same token it can *theoretically* reverse an overdose just like naloxone or naltrexone. As opposed to the often used naloxone, which only had a half life of 30-90min, buprenorphine has a half life of 36 hours. This means that the patient will be in precipitated withdrawal for longer than if he had been treated with naloxone. However, it also means that the patient will not be at risk for relapsing back into OD as often happens when treated with naloxone.
. The buprenorphine can be administered by IV or as prescribed sublingually, the people treating the OD patient may need to add some water under the patient's tongue to make the pill dissolve. Keep this in mind as if you are ever near someone who ODs and there is no naloxone handy, they can be saved with buprenorphine (it is common for junkies to have some bupe on hand for rainy days). Obviously it is best to call 911 and let the professionals treat the patient along with whatever treatment the others give. But if you are unable or unwilling to call 911 it is possible to treat an OD with bupe. And technically, so long as the patient recovers, medical treatment is not absolutely necessary because, as previously stated relapse into OD is virtually impossible.
. It is also worth noting that bupe itself does not pose a risk of overdose as its partial agonsit/antagonist properties will prevent it from having a respiratory depressant effect. This is because at higher doses bupe will begin to block itself, in simple terms.
. This information has not been evaluated by the FDA. It is based primarily off of theory and an article published in a peer reviewed medical journal (I believe the New England Journal of Medicine, but Im not sure) that detailed the story of a heroin user who was saved from OD by a friend with this technique. So because it is not official in that it has not been evaluated dont take it as gospel. But there is no theoretical reason why it shouldnt work, and it may save a life. For that reason I wanted to put it out there as an option in case one of you finds yourself in the terrifying situation of seeing someone drop out in front of you.

Thanks for the help with my questions and hopefully none of you will find yourself in the position of having to use this info. But if you do, then hopefully it will save a life.

Happy nods to all!
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2010, 09:38 AM
beergoggles beergoggles is offline
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Grin Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

I used to break through Suboxone all the time back when I was on maintenance. Sure it was extremely inefficient, but if I swallow 240mg of OxyContin or IV an 80 I was guaranteed a buzz.

Goddamn I was getting those motherfuckers for cheap.

Why are you on Suboxone anywho?
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Quote:
My main question is this: Does buprenorphine block all effects of other opiates, including respiratory suppression and other parts that can cause OD? Or does it only block the recreational effects, and the same dose will cause you to OD even if it doesnt get you high?
I've actually smoked heroin fairly successfully after ingesting suboxone. >.>
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box View Post
I've actually smoked heroin fairly successfully after ingesting suboxone. >.>
So I'm not the only one with similar experiences. I was on 24-32mg a day for a year and a half btw. Just a background on my suboxone experience.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by beergoggles View Post
Why are you on Suboxone anywho?
Im not on suboxone (not prescribed I mean). But I bought a shit load for dirt cheap off a junky about a year ago and they've just been sitting in my safe ever since then. Now that Im opiate dependent on pm I use them sparingly when I get ahead of schedule.

For about 1-2 weeks every month I have no junk . Most of the time as my supply dwindles and I try to stretch it out, and that kind of makes me taper down. This in turn makes me be able to abstain without any major withdrawal symptoms. But on days like today when I do get WD I take just enough bupe to get well.

On topic, I know that it is possible to get buzzed or even high while on bupe, but obviously it takes more to attain the same buzz than it would if one wernt on subs. So my question is: Does it also take more to OD, or is the overdose threshold the same while one has buprenorphine in his system?
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces N 8s View Post
On topic, I know that it is possible to get buzzed or even high while on bupe, but obviously it takes more to attain the same buzz than it would if one wernt on subs. So my question is: Does it also take more to OD, or is the overdose threshold the same while one has buprenorphine in his system?
Well, my guess would be that it would take more to OD. Things with higher affinities than your choice narcotic (naloxone) reverse the respiratory depression. So, you'd have to take a lot more to OD.

That's just my logic, I can't find anything to verify that.

mike
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

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Originally Posted by mksnowboarder View Post
Well, my guess would be that it would take more to OD. Things with higher affinities than your choice narcotic (naloxone) reverse the respiratory depression. So, you'd have to take a lot more to OD.

That's just my logic, I can't find anything to verify that.

mike
Yeah Im gonna have to go with you on that as well.

Ive blown about 110mg of Opana in the last 7 hours and Im almost high, whereas without the bupe I think I might be somewhere between "Fucked Up" and "Dead".
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

On the negative side, you're probably going to skyrocket that lowered tolerance that you get from being off opiates for 2 weeks by taking these high doses. Also be careful with keeping doses like that up, as the bupe will be wearing off over the next day and completely disappearing over the next few days.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:47 PM
ilovechronic ilovechronic is offline
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Sigh...................Yes you can still od even though you dont feel high. That is what happens, people keep trying to take more and OD. Just because nothing is attaced to the receptors sites does not mean it is not floating around your bloodstream still.
Thats what they tell you atleast.
From experience thats not the case. I have been able to get high after using 2mgs and under, that day but it takes more and you don't get full effects. If you are taking anything over 4mgs just save your dope and wait atleast 24 hours. It will take longer for most people to feel their dope of choice(oxy,h,morphine,etc) 100%
Buprenorphine could be used to bring someone out of a full agonist OD.I would crush it and have them snort it if they are unconcious. Fuck that whole putting it under an unconcious person tounge for 10 minutes when they are dieing and every second counts.


"It is also worth noting that bupe itself does not pose a risk of overdose as its partial agonsit/antagonist properties will prevent it from having a respiratory depressant effect. This is because at higher doses bupe will begin to block itself, in simple terms. "

You need to be careful with this statment. Some people can OD on bupe it self. Also at higher doses they mean that bupe will begin to antagonize the nor-bupe that your liver turned the bupe into. Nor bupe IIRC is a more potent agonist but regular bupe will antagonize it.

Bupe WILL bring people out of a FULL agonist OD. IF their heart is stopped you WILL NEED EPINEPHRINE to restart the heart. This will only work if they are semi councious or un concious but still have a pulse/still breathing atleast lightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beergoggles View Post
I used to break through Suboxone all the time back when I was on maintenance. Sure it was extremely inefficient, but if I swallow 240mg of OxyContin or IV an 80 I was guaranteed a buzz.

Goddamn I was getting those motherfuckers for cheap.

Why are you on Suboxone anywho?
LOL FUCK THAT. OC goes for 50 cents a mg sometimes 50-60$ for 1 80. I would never fucking pay 50$ for a measley wittle buzzz. For 50$ it better be 2 days of straight bliss an dnodding.
But you did say you were getting them cheap.

the most i would pay is 23$ maybe 25$ for an 80.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beergoggles View Post
So I'm not the only one with similar experiences. I was on 24-32mg a day for a year and a half btw. Just a background on my suboxone experience.
A normal person would probably have to wait 36-72 hours to get high with doses like that. I really dont see how you could get high at all with a daily dose that large. I take 2 mgs and only get a buzz when I did H the same day like 8 hours later. Even after 24 hours the 2mgs still has a good grasp on my receptors but not enough where I start feeling slight WD coming on.

Last edited by ilovechronic; 01-28-2010 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Try this

[Youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGSIvuDUkpI[/youtube]
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post
I would crush it and have them snort it if they are unconcious.
Good info in that post, this is the only part that didn't really make sense to me. How can one snort something if they're unconscious?
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Personally, I'd probably mix a shot and IV the bupe for the overdosee. The time it would save in onset would outweigh prep time. I've actually administered narcan once to a friend in the situation. Bupe is easier to come by. If anyone wants to read the case report, there's a thread for requested references in Lab Tips, and someone got that for me awhile back.

mike
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:08 PM
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Smile Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post

LOL FUCK THAT. OC goes for 50 cents a mg sometimes 50-60$ for 1 80. I would never fucking pay 50$ for a measley wittle buzzz. For 50$ it better be 2 days of straight bliss an dnodding.
But you did say you were getting them cheap.

the most i would pay is 23$ maybe 25$ for an 80.

Yeah, I wasn't paying normal prices most of the time.

A normal person would probably have to wait 36-72 hours to get high with doses like that. I really dont see how you could get high at all with a daily dose that large. I take 2 mgs and only get a buzz when I did H the same day like 8 hours later. Even after 24 hours the 2mgs still has a good grasp on my receptors but not enough where I start feeling slight WD coming on.
I would wait a day or two after my last suboxone dose. I'm kind of a nutcase when it comes to drug doseages.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:04 AM
ilovechronic ilovechronic is offline
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Default Re: Breaking Through Suboxone - And Some Advice on Treating ODs

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Originally Posted by friloc View Post
Good info in that post, this is the only part that didn't really make sense to me. How can one snort something if they're unconscious?
because if they are breathing through their nose they will snort it. it may take a couple trys but that would increase the onset. i breath through my nose atleast. You could even turn there head upside down and put it down their nose.

I wouldnt shoot people up with suboxone but I guess if it was life or death you could
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