Archived: Tools of the Trade

[skygear]

A real S3 key does have a space between But this config works also!
[+]_[-]
[-]_[+]

wheras _ = space

[Felony]

Would it be worth it for someone to jack the s3 key from where they work? An actual Alpha S3 Key nobody every uses?

[gusboy]

Originally Posted by Felony

Would it be worth it for someone to jack the s3 key from where they work? An actual Alpha S3 Key nobody every uses?

I don't recommend stealing SL equipment from your own employer because they will notice and they will try to find out who did it. An LP will go over every second of video footage of you for every day you ever worked in the store if they found out you took a detacher because they'll know you are a lifter.

[skygear]

Originally Posted by Felony

Would it be worth it for someone to jack the s3 key from where they work? An actual Alpha S3 Key nobody every uses?

Just remember that there is SENSOR IN THEM THAT YOU CANT DEACTIVATE!.
so if you decide to get one make sure you bring the proper bit to open it and remove the coil! I'm sure you aren't going to work at the place for ever... Take advantage of the situation and look to the future! It can come in handy!

[Floppy Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by skygear

Just remember that there is SENSOR IN THEM THAT YOU CANT DEACTIVATE!.
so if you decide to get one make sure you bring the proper bit to open it and remove the coil! I'm sure you aren't going to work at the place for ever... Take advantage of the situation and look to the future! It can come in handy!

If you want to get it out of the store, just put your hands above your head and pretend to stretch, at the same time as you're walking out the eas gates, effectively carrying the key over the gate's rf field.

Can someone confirm if this would work?

[Malice]

It depends on the towers. There are some that only have about a 4 foot vertical range. Go to Alpha's and Checkpoint's websites and check.

[Cryptik]

Originally Posted by Felony

Would it be worth it for someone to jack the s3 key from where they work? An actual Alpha S3 Key nobody every uses?

Yes. Simply wrap it in many layers of aluminum foil before exiting. That, or remove the coil inside it while in the bathroom or something. Or, if you could make a booster bag [pouch of ~25 layers of aluminum] and get it inside the store, just take it out that way.

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by Cryptik

Yes. Simply wrap it in many layers of aluminum foil before exiting. That, or remove the coil inside it while in the bathroom or something. Or, if you could make a booster bag [pouch of ~25 layers of aluminum] and get it inside the store, just take it out that way.

A better way would be to put it in a tin container. You can lift one from Michael's.

[Floppy Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by ShadyLady

A better way would be to put it in a tin container. You can lift one from Michael's.

I'm pretty sure a tin container wouldn't block rf signals...

[Scizorist]

Originally Posted by Floppy Ham Sandwich

I'm pretty sure a tin container wouldn't block rf signals...

I use an altoid container, I'm not sure it it's tin or not but it blocks both rf and am signals.

[Floppy Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by Scizorist

I use an altoid container, I'm not sure it it's tin or not but it blocks both rf and am signals.

What is an altoid container, like a biscuit tin?

[Scizorist]

Originally Posted by Floppy Ham Sandwich

What is an altoid container, like a biscuit tin?

It's the container that holds altoid mints. You can find them at CVS and almost any other store.

[ms. pickle]

Originally Posted by Scizorist

I use an altoid container, I'm not sure it it's tin or not but it blocks both rf and am signals.

They're both made out of the same thing, steel.

[Cryptik]

Originally Posted by Floppy Ham Sandwich

If you want to get it out of the store, just put your hands above your head and pretend to stretch, at the same time as you're walking out the eas gates, effectively carrying the key over the gate's rf field.

Can someone confirm if this would work?

It is very unlikely that this would work.
If it were to work, It'd be safe to assume that the towers are either deactivated, archaic, or set to very low sensitivity. They tend to have a pretty far reach in my experience.
You have to remember: the towers' signals extend in every direction.

[ms. pickle]

My friend stan is curious, his super loc x2 magnet didn't work on this clothing tag and it has no opening for a hook or anything of that sort, it looks a bit like a pencil tag but maybe newer?

Stan wants to know if anyone knows how to remove it? Stan tried the x2 on 3 different ones just to be sure it wasn't that tag.

[Floppy Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by Scizorist

It's the container that holds altoid mints. You can find them at CVS and almost any other store.

How the fuck do you fit things in there to lift?

Originally Posted by ms. pickle

My friend stan is curious, his super loc x2 magnet didn't work on this clothing tag and it has no opening for a hook or anything of that sort, it looks a bit like a pencil tag but maybe newer?

Stan wants to know if anyone knows how to remove it? Stan tried the x2 on 3 different ones just to be sure it wasn't that tag.

It's sensormatic, go have a look on their website. It can most likely be removed with a countersunk detatcher or even a couple of stacked n38 mags.

[big-tony]

Originally Posted by Scizorist

These are the magnets my friend uses for his S3 key http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetai...84-N52&cat=168. Get four of them and align them in this configuration:

[+ -][+ -]
[- +][- +]

Then afterwords wrap them in a couple layers of electrical tape so the don't flip or break. Also optionally you can add a thin metal bracket onto one side for extra durability which is what my friend did but it's not mandatory.

I just ordered 5 of these from that link.
What creative casings have you all found to put these magnets in?
I need ideas so I don't accidentally break them if they connect together.




For those of you wondering how to tell the North and South poles for the magnets (since it's important) here's a guide I found:

How do you detect the poles of a magnet using a compass?


The painted end of a compass needle (or, if not painted, the end with an arrowhead shape) will always point to the south-pole of a nearby magnet. The non-painted end will seek out the north pole of a nearby magnet.

If this seems the wrong way round, then here's the explanation:
The needle of a compass is itself a small magnet. One end of the needle is highlighted with paint to show that this is the end that points towards a place in Canada referred to as "the Earth's magnetic north pole". The magnet points to this place, not because there is lots of metal there, but because the Earth itself behaves like a huge magnet.

The end of any magnet which, if allowed to rotate freely, points to the Earth's magnetic north pole is called "the north-seeking pole" of the magnet, or simply "the magnet's north pole". The opposite end is called "the magnet's south-seeking pole", or simply its "south pole". Therefore, a magnet's south pole gets its name because it points towards the Earth's magnetic south pole, which is in Antarctica.

Now here's the tricky bit: opposite magnetic poles attract and like ones repel. It follows that, because the north pole of a magnet is attracted towards Canada, there must be a huge magnet with its south pole in Canada. Similarly, when the south pole of a magnet points towards Antarctica, this is because there is a huge magnet with its north pole in Antarctica. This means the Earth's magnetic poles, despite their names, are the opposite way round to the Earth's geographical poles, around which it rotates. All the confusion comes about because of the way we label the seeking-ends of a magnet.

Note that the Earth's magnetic poles are currently close to, but not coincident with, the points where the Earth's axis meets the Earth's surface, called the geographical poles. The magnetic poles of the Earth change position slowly with time and are known to have completely reversed on many occasions during the Earth's history!

[Shadowz0r]

I just ordered 5 of these from that link.
What creative casings have you all found to put these magnets in?
I need ideas so I don't accidentally break them if they connect together.

When the mags arrive you can easily just attach them with your bare hands and wrap it with electrical tape. If you align the magnetically up correctly all 4 will go right into place perfectly and hold its shape as is. Just make sure you dont bump it to make the magnets flip on you before you get the electrical tape around it. I was at first paranoid about them shattering but it actually takes a lot for those to break.

[Scizorist]

The magnets will only stick to each other one way! Why does everyone try and find the poles! I don't know if I'm missing something here.

[ms. pickle]

Originally Posted by Floppy Ham Sandwich

It's sensormatic, go have a look on their website. It can most likely be removed with a countersunk detatcher or even a couple of stacked n38 mags.

But isn't the super loc x2 my friend uses stronger than a countersunk detacher?

[skygear]

there is a 5 magnet swtup in the x2 - like an s3 its a key! its not how strong the whole magnet is, its HOW it pulls

[big-tony]

ok, I went to Walmart last night and looked at a package with the wrap on it.

The face of it looks like this:
http://www.securitytagstore.com/admi...der%20Wrap.jpg

BUT the locking part is not a rectangle like in the picture, it's a circular type. Anybody know about these and if it's any different to unlock them?

Edit:

Just found one that looks like it here: http://www.alphaworld.com/images08/w...ack-spider.jpg

[Floppy Ham Sandwich]

Originally Posted by big-tony

ok, I went to Walmart last night and looked at a package with the wrap on it.

The face of it looks like this:
http://www.securitytagstore.com/admi...der%20Wrap.jpg

BUT the locking part is not a rectangle like in the picture, it's a circular type. Anybody know about these and if it's any different to unlock them?

Edit:

Just found one that looks like it here: http://www.alphaworld.com/images08/w...ack-spider.jpg

If you had a real s3 key, you'd put the two ears of the key in those two little holes on the back of the spiderwrap. You need to practice using your homemade key, it's a lot harder using it since it doesn't have the ears (so therefore you don't necessarily know how to position it). There are a whole bunch of videos on alpha's website, go educate yourself.

[Shadowz0r]

Originally Posted by Scizorist

The magnets will only stick to each other one way! Why does everyone try and find the poles! I don't know if I'm missing something here.

Actually (and i don't know how) but before I used my real Alpha s3 Key my n52 mags poles weren't in correct configuration according to the guy in Ace that helped me find the correct configuration.

[skygear]

Originally Posted by Scizorist

The magnets will only stick to each other one way! Why does everyone try and find the poles! I don't know if I'm missing something here.

correct they will only stick one way when in that config, however there is a space between the 2 sets so they can be put in a different config... each set pulls on the piece of metal in a different way causing it to flex

[Tachosomoza]

Thought this was pretty cool..

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOieVKB_kJM&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[big-tony]

Originally Posted by Shadowz0r

When the mags arrive you can easily just attach them with your bare hands and wrap it with electrical tape. If you align the magnetically up correctly all 4 will go right into place perfectly and hold its shape as is. Just make sure you dont bump it to make the magnets flip on you before you get the electrical tape around it. I was at first paranoid about them shattering but it actually takes a lot for those to break.

ok I got the magnets today and I've noticed the north and south poles are the top and bottom of the magnet and not on the ends so how are you suppose to do this configuration that has been posted:

[+ -] [+ -]
[- +] [- +]

from that diagram, it looks like you are depending on the ends of the magnets for the diagram. Ive done the compass test to see what was the north and south poles and the ends were all the same.

and what's the + and - stand for anyway? which is the north and which stands for south?


Edit:
I followed the diagram here: http://i49.tinypic.com/51v9nc.png

and it explains it better to me I guess so I have assembled this and will test later.

[ms. pickle]

Stan wants to know what can take off this tag sensomatic ultra tag AT
http://www.sensormatic.com/Products/...traTag_AT.aspx

without using the required ultra tag basic decoupler
http://www.sensormatic.com/products/...Decoupler.aspx

also, the super loc x2 doesn't work on these tags. Would some N52 magnets maybe work?

[Malice]

Oh shit, I've never seen those before. Someone should get their hands on that detacher and see what's inside it.

[Shadowz0r]

it looks like it functions as a regular countersunk detacher just with a stupid key hole that somehow will not let someone lean over the counter and be able to take off a tag. no biggie

[Malice]

According to ms.pickle the superloc doesn't work.

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by ms. pickle

Stan wants to know what can take off this tag sensomatic ultra tag AT
http://www.sensormatic.com/Products/...traTag_AT.aspx

without using the required ultra tag basic decoupler
http://www.sensormatic.com/products/...Decoupler.aspx

also, the super loc x2 doesn't work on these tags. Would some N52 magnets maybe work?

The superloc can't remove ultra tags. The tags it can remove are listed on Vinni's site: http://vpeasaccessories.myshopify.co...ts/superloc-x2

I would try magnets.

[skygear]

i havent seen these locally and have an x2 if i run across them. Don't forget a little push pull helps release even the toughest tags. if all else fails, USE SOME SNIPS! Klein Tools 1104

[ms. pickle]

Originally Posted by skygear

i havent seen these locally and have an x2 if i run across them. Don't forget a little push pull helps release even the toughest tags. if all else fails, USE SOME SNIPS! Klein Tools 1104

How loud is the sound when cutting a tag off?

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by skygear

i havent seen these locally and have an x2 if i run across them. Don't forget a little push pull helps release even the toughest tags. if all else fails, USE SOME SNIPS! Klein Tools 1104

The description for the tags says: ''Defeat resistant design. The new sleek shape minimizes the abiltiy to attack by hand or with tools.''

[skygear]

the sound is a distinct 'snap'
shady - your right1 the only issue is most employees dont atach them all the way! if you dont press the metal pin all the way into the detacher, then a vulnerable area exists.
Also if you pull and bend the pin a little then you created an attack point.
I feel detachers have only recently become a part of my buddies 'tool bin' with in the last year. for clothes itleast.
remember you can have the best alarm system in the world! but if you only lock the front door and forget to arm it, Its USELESS

[ShadyLady]

Some info written by Scumbag regarding magnets:

Originally Posted by Scumbag

Sorry Malice … I am a grumpy bitch at 3:30am.!.

To answer your question no my S3 key can not open ink / circle tags. It is not strong enough.
I have used * THIS * and another larger N45 2”x ¾” cylinder magnet. You do not need a countersunk magnet to remove the ball and clasp tags found on the magnetic removal tags.

Here are some videos I want you to watch.
Ink tag … I want you to notice his drawing of the tags inside. This is a gate latch. When you place your magnet onto the bulb part it pulls the metal up … releasing the pin. This type of latch does not need a strong magnet. What type I don’t know … I have always used a strong magnet.
Gator tag … works the same way … it is a gate latch. You can use a strong magnet to remove or you use brute strength to open it.
Hook tag … this is the home made hook key.
Ball & Clasp Latch … if you will scroll down to the bottom pictures … pic 20 … this will show you the inside and explain how it works.
Ball & Clasp Break Down … this is a cut-a-way view … you place your magnet on the top … this will pull the spring back releasing the balls that were being forced against the pin … pull the pin out.

You do not need a countersunk or ring magnet to remove these magnets. The store detachers are counter sunk because it speeds up the checkout process. There is a break down on a store detacher posted in thread 1 or 2 … I don’t have time to look for it. If its in 1 then look on the Links page at the beginning of the thread.

Will someone please find it and post it.!.

Alpha Lock … I had figured out a while back that the Alpha lock did not need all 4 magnets to unlock it. The Real S3 key is narrow … so why wouldn’t the homemade version be also ... I used 2 magnets with no issues. Then I saw Montenlair’s video … and was like fuck. I could have saved money and pocket space if I known that a single N45 would work.

My Ace store nor any other in my area carries neodymium magnets. I have to order them off the net.
Will someone get the link from “Tools” about the Ace magnets.

This is why I want to start this sharing information on magnets. So that we are all on the same page and we can have the best inconspicuous tools for the job.

Originally Posted by Scumbag

Well Hell … I was wrong.!.

Leatherlace bought the magnet I recommended … {* THIS *}
I have used it on these types of tags … {* THIS *} … {* THAT *} … {* THEM *} with no problems, except a little sticky sometimes, but always worked.

She tried it on … {* THIS *} … and it did not work. I do not know if it is because the cone is larger.?.

I am not a magnet expert … I rarely remove cloths or use a mall for that purpose anymore.
I gave advice that is apparently wrong. This is why we need to discus magnets.

To clear up my other post … I use 2 of these magnets for my S3 key … {* THIS *} not had any issues.

TLDR/ Opps … I Fucked Up.!.


EDIT: [YOUTUBE]V7SQdzTJkEE[/YOUTUBE]

Originally Posted by Scumbag

Obviously my first response is to pay vinipooh the $110 for the Superlock Detacher. If you are wanting to do a lot of ‘shopping’ then you need the right tools for the job.

* VP EAS ASSCERORIES *

With that said - for the rest of us poor smucks there is a cheaper alterative. You need to purchase 2 of these magnets at $20 each. These magnets are no joke and are very strong. They will need to be double stacked for the strength you need.

* K&J MAGNETICS *

You will need to shield the magnets on the bottom and sides. This is nearly imposable for the bottom because of the axial magnetization. When you buy 2 they will ship with a spacer between them. Use this on the bottom with lots of electrical tape to help. You will never stop the magnetic force, but reducing it will help with handling it.

The spring structure of a super tag needs the strong magnetic pull to compress it so that the ball bearings on the inside will become loose thus freeing the pin.

If you stick this magnet to a metal surface good luck removing it. It will hold up to 250lbs before breaking loose.


EDIT: I wrote all this bullshit assuming that they are using the Sensormatic Super tags 1 & 2.
I should have asked first - what fuck’n tags do they use at your store?

[ms. pickle]

Originally Posted by ShadyLady

Some info written by Scumbag regarding magnets:

So for a knock off super loc you need 2 of the 148 lb pull force magnets , now since the super loc doesn't work on the sensormatic ultra tag how many would stan need to remove this awful tag?

Yeah we do need a magnet thread

[ShadyLady]

Originally Posted by ms. pickle

Yeah we do need a magnet thread

I tried getting one going but it seems no one really knows much about magnets. When I have time, I'll try to work on this thread to update all the info & what not.

[secret_squirrel]

After larking for a while (and lifting a few things), I "found" my first Alpha S3 key(free of course, just look and you'll find them). Went to a few places and tested it and I was on cloud 9 just thinking of all things I might acquire.. I'll keep you posted: