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View Full Version : Red Phosphorus


emisarre
2008-06-13, 01:03
Where do you get it?

Eldorhan
2008-06-13, 01:14
Emergency flares. Forget the matchbook scraping crap, it's not even RP anymore on most boxes these days.

Or if you know how to work it (and obviously you don't since you ask), you could buy phosphoric acid.

emisarre
2008-06-13, 01:37
What kind of flares and where would you get them

blacklung
2008-06-13, 01:39
phosphoric acid.

Do you have any refs for phos. acid --> RP? Just curious.

Eldorhan
2008-06-13, 04:23
First ref, the other thread disappeared from the archive but it might hang out somewhere if megalomania restored the full db.

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2181

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2120

Not hard to convert WP to RP :D


Phosphorus was first isolated by Henning Brandt at Hamburg in 1669 when he evaporated urine and heated the residue until it was re hot, this released phosphorus vapor, which he collected by condensing in water. (He tried to keep it a secret thinking he discovered the "philosophers stone") It was not until it was realized that bone was made of calcium phosphate, and that it too could be used to make phosphorus, that it became widely available. Most was manufactured by heating phosphoric acid (produced by dissolving bone in H2SO4) with charcoal. By the end of the century phosphorus was being extracted from mineral phosphates by heating it with coke in an electric furnace.


White phosphorus is a white, waxy transparent solid. This allotrope is thermodynamically unstable at normal condition and will gradually change to red phosphorus. This transformation, which is accelerated by light and heat, makes white phosphorus almost always contain some red phosphorus and appear yellow. For this reason, it is also called yellow phosphorus.

There you have it. Heat it then go WP -> RP by nuking the WP with light (sodium light you said ?).

UK_TOM
2008-06-13, 12:08
The extract below is taken from an old book called, 'Chemical Experiments: Theory, Practice and Application of'. It's really quite an interesting book as it provides an insight as to how chemists had to use a lot of 'ghetto' techniques themselves or get glassware manufactured according to their needs. Some worked alone and were practicing their interest in basements or studies. Really is an excellent book and I will post it in in the Book section in a day or two...


Following is from the book and is a sample of text from the section regarding phosphorus (it continues on beyond the extract here)



378 Phosphorus from phosphoric acid 1 fa small quantity only be wanted for illustration it may be made of other substances ns undeJ Put phosphoric acid mixed with half its weight of charcoal into a green glass tube sealed at one end about a foot in length and half an inch in diameter Coat that part of the outside of the tube which is to be heated with a mixture of two parts of clay and one of sand previously mixed with cut thread or flax and bind the whole on with iron wire A retort coated in the same way шау be used with equal convenience It is to be placed in a furnace as shown below and the beak of it made to dip under the surface of warm water in a bason When the retort is brought to a red heat phosphorus will distil over and fall into the water

379 Phosphorus from ivory black Wühler recommends to calcine ivory black which is a mixture of phosphate of lime and charcoal with fine quartz sand and a little more ordinary charcoal in cylinders of fire clay at a very high temperature each cylinder has a bent copper tube attached to it one branch of which descends into a vessel containing water

380 Phosphorus from urine Evaporate the uriné to dryness then expose it to a high temperature in the manner of the last experiment Phosphorus will at length pass over and may be collected in warm water The carbon of the animal matter decomposing the phosphoric acid which it contains

381 Second method Add a solution of nitrate of lead or nitrate of mercury to urine collect wash and dry the precipitate Mix it with one fourth its weight of charcoal and distil by a red heat as before The nitrate of mercury is to be preferred because it is more easily decomposed

382 From phosphate of soda Add to a solution of phosphate of soda a solution of acetate of lead phosphate of lead being thrown down and acetate of soda remaining in solution The precipitate is to be treated as in the last experiment

383 Ta purify phosphorus That obtained by the foregoing experiments is of a reddish color and impure To purify it tie it up in a piece of wash leather soak it in hot water and squeeze the bag with a wooden squeezer in the manner that lemons are squeezed letting the phosphorus which oozes out through the pores of the leather fall into the water It will now be pure and colorless

384 To cast phosphorus in sticks Procure a slightly tapering glass tube close one end with a cork and warm by immersion in hot water Dissolve the phosphorus in hot water contained in a basin with a spout to it when melted pour the liquid phosphorus water and all into the tube holding it over a vessel to catch what water or phosphorus may be spilled When congealed by gradual cooling the stick of phosphorus will usually fall out upon the cork being removed or if not it may be thrust out with an iron wire

385 To handle phosphorus This must always be done under the surface of cold water or if pieces are handled in the air great care must be taken that they do not arrive at a heat above 100 and particularly that no particle adheres to the hands or gets beneath the nails As the exact heat at which phosphorus inflames depends upon various causes a slight degree of friction like that of writing with it as in Ex 387 warming the hands at the fire contact with various bodies partial oxydation &c will very often occasion combustion and if the hands be not defended with gloves and the phosphorus not kept cool the most dreadful burns may be occasioned It must be kept in bottles filled with water

386 Slow combustion of Cut several thin slices of phosphorus dry them on bibulous paper moving them from place to place upon it but never touching them with the fingers and heap them loosely together in a little tow o cotton a slow combustion goes on which often increases till the phosphorus inflames but the result is affected so much by the currents in the air and upon the manner in which the small particles of phosphorus touch each other that it is impossible to predict the result

387 Phosphoric writing Insert a small piece of phosphorus into the end of a quill Holding the quill in the hand write upon a wall with the phosphorus the characters will in the dark appear luminous A bason of cold water must be at hand to quench the flame should the phosphorus become inflamed which it is very likely to do in consequence of the heat arising from the friction

388 Luminous steam Boil in a Florence flask a little water into which has been dropped two or three small pieces of phospnorus Part of it rises in vapor along with the steam and renders it luminous when it comes in contact with the air This phosphorescent steam is not capable of setting fire to inflammable substances Upon cooling the water will not be found to have imbibed any of the phosphorus

389 Luminosity of phosphorus destroyed by various vapors Heat some sulphuric ether in a spoon and as the luminous steam of the last experiment issues from the mouth of the flask suffer the vapor of the ether to mix with it luminosity will be immediately destroyed This will also be the case when it meets with the vapor of the oil of turpentine or the vapor of naphthaline

390 While luminous phosphoric characters are shining on a wall suffer the vapor of either of the above liquids er a very small proportion of olefiant gas to mix with the white fumes arising from the letters and the phosphorescence will at once cease also the vapor and gas may be in very minute quantity

391 Phosphorized ether Boil a grain of phosphorus in an ounce of sulphuric ether contained in a phial enough will be dissolved to render the ether luminous when exposed to the air Cork the phial and the phosphorescent appearance will cease to be renewed each time the phial is uncorked Phosphoric oil See Ex 80 and 81

392 Phosphorized alcohol Repeat Ex 391 with alcohol or with spirits of turpentine instead of with sulphuric ether and a sufficient quantity of phosphorus will be dissolved to render the fumes above the liquid luminous whenever the cork is withdrawn from the containing phial

393 To inflame phosphorus under water Put a few grains of phosphorus into an ale glass and pour boiling water over it till the glass is half filled then having a bladder full of oxygen ready project a small stream of the gas upon the phosphorus holding the pipe which is attached to the bladder and which should be of the form shown in the annexed cut close to the phosphorus

394 Change from combustion in the air When phosphorus is inflamed in atmospheric air a large quantity of f f a formed which may be collected by inclosing the phosphorus in a glass jar The fumes will then condense into masses like flakes of snow they are metaphosphoric acid Combustion in oxygen See Ex 219

395 Inclose a particle of phosphorus in a phial of oxygen put the stopper into the phial aud suffer it to remain undisturbed for some hours upon opening the phial no luminous fumes will arise unless the oxygen be heated to 80 Now mix with the oxygen in the phial a small quantity of either hydrogen nitrogen or carbonic acid and set it aside as before these substances dissolve a small portion of the phosphorus aud the gas becomes phosphorescent when the stopper is removed or in other words they allow of the slow combustion of the phosphorus whereas oxygen alone does not unless at more than 80 of temperature

396 Change of color in Suffer melted phosphorus to drop suddenly into very cold water or on to the surface of ice and it will instantly change to a black color

397 Decomposed by light Phosphorus exposed to light gradually becomes covered with a film of a red powdery substance which impairs its properties to prevent this it should be kept in opaque bottles

398 To obtain crystals of Make a saturated solution of phosphorus inhotnaphtha As this solution cools crystals of a regular dodecahedral form will be obtained They may be kept in the solution itself

399 Second method Fuse phosphorus with about half its weight of sulphur suffer this mixture to cool gradually and a part of the phosphorus separates in the state of crystals The fusion of the two substances must be conducted without contact with the air or combustion ensues and this so violent аз not to be unattended with danger

400 Combustion by friction Take a minute piece of phosphorus on the end of a match rub it upon the surface of a cork or piece of wood The friction will inflame the phosphorus

401 Lay a thin slice of phosphorus on woollen lint feathers dry paper or other ad conductor of heat it will most frequently œcorne inflamed by the heat occasioned by ts own combustion particularly with the east friction It is also much more inflammable when dusted over with powdered charcoal or flowers of sulphur

402 Lucifer or Congreve matches These are a preparation of phosphorus and are best made in the following manner The strips of wood are first dipped in melted sulphur then afterwards the points of them touched made in the following.

Eldorhan
2008-06-13, 16:33
Thanks man, i forgot where i put this article in my mess :D

squeegee
2008-06-13, 19:51
Props for turning this ridiculous topic around fellas.

gigster
2008-06-13, 21:33
match books all have RP different amounts. Learn how to clean them and its good to use. Road flares cost $ for what u get in RP

stateofhack
2008-06-13, 22:37
You can still clean up match books, i don't know to much about it because i hardly work with Red Phosphorus or any other Phosphorus compounds :(

I remember that on WD someone posted some very great info on how to clean them up fully, if someone wants i can dig that up :)

Eldorhan
2008-06-14, 06:08
match books all have RP different amounts. Learn how to clean them and its good to use. Road flares cost $ for what u get in RP

Huh, yeah, scraping 200 matchbook covers is really equivalent to cracking 2 flares open...

Eldorhan
2008-06-14, 06:12
I remember that on WD someone posted some very great info on how to clean them up fully, if someone wants i can dig that up :)

I wouldn't trust WD as far as phosphorus.

WD "mysterioulsy" forgot to tell you that skin+WP = 3rd degree burn. It also forgot to tell that heating WP could turn into a complete DISASTER.

Not disaster as in "lol, methlab got fried", disaster as in "lol, air catches fire and entire building goes to hell with 1g"...

gigster
2008-06-14, 08:40
Huh, yeah, scraping 200 matchbook covers is really equivalent to cracking 2 flares open...
where is the RP in road flares???? a expert thats never done anything but some guy at a party said so and umm yeah
kids

FullMetalJacket
2008-06-14, 10:15
I wouldn't trust WD as far as phosphorus.

WD "mysterioulsy" forgot to tell you that skin+WP = 3rd degree burn. It also forgot to tell that heating WP could turn into a complete DISASTER.

Not disaster as in "lol, methlab got fried", disaster as in "lol, air catches fire and entire building goes to hell with 1g"...

Or maybe WD figured that anybody deciding to dick around with phossy would bother to do the slightest iota of external research and cross-reference, and that anybody retarded enough to take a single source as verbatim without any backround info deserves everything they get..

stateofhack
2008-06-14, 11:40
I wouldn't trust WD as far as phosphorus.

WD "mysterioulsy" forgot to tell you that skin+WP = 3rd degree burn. It also forgot to tell that heating WP could turn into a complete DISASTER.

Not disaster as in "lol, methlab got fried", disaster as in "lol, air catches fire and entire building goes to hell with 1g"...

Your an idiot! Seriously! You have to be stupid not to do research and not to know that it causes 3rd degree! And you should always be wearing gloves anyways!

Or maybe WD figured that anybody deciding to dick around with phossy would bother to do the slightest iota of external research and cross-reference, and that anybody retarded enough to take a single source as verbatim without any backround info deserves everything they get..

Exactly, you should never just stick to one source! Look at more of them especially when your reading something that was posted by some random person on the net!

Eldorhan
2008-06-14, 17:56
I was being sarcastic, morons.

emisarre
2008-06-14, 18:56
yea you assholes give me my red phosphorus

stateofhack
2008-06-15, 01:36
I was being sarcastic, morons.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/fa/Doingbootwrong.jpg

Eldorhan
2008-06-15, 02:10
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/f/fa/Doingbootwrong.jpg

lol :D

danbandMN
2008-07-12, 04:26
hey stateofhack

yes, that would be great up u to dig that up. please do.

Eldorhan
2008-07-12, 05:42
To find RP just buy distress flares (googo' that shit) at boat shops (forgot the damn name).

A flare costs between 15 and 30$ and contains 100 to up to 600g RP, depending on size and model.

Most flares in the end 90's were PURE red phosphorus, and i don't think they changed very much, probably some cheap binders easily washed with acetone.

Flare guns also fire little RP shells. It's not hard to find at all in "nearly bulk", don't waste your time with that matchbook crap.

hugh jorgen
2008-07-13, 05:21
uk tom...that was very informative, entertaining, educational, and dangerous to the average doper tryin to whoop up an average batch of fluff in the average neighborhood he lives in.

pimp shit, non the less. ive never been exsposed to that particular information, and luckily never until i was knowledgeable to appreciate it!!!

telling some of these novices to fuck with wp on any level or capacity is like letting a toddler play with a hand grenade with the pin dangling from the last hole.

ooouch.

hey kids....know what yer fucking with before you fuck with it, or.......well......ka-boom. your aunt hilda's fuckin garage will look like satan sat down for a hot second on the wood bench.

fuck under your fingernails...id worry more about your face and the room your face was kickin it in.

but...then...you fellas do as you please.....who am i to stand in the way of cool neighborhood fires!!!

peace & white foss & love & all that...shit

Spider_
2008-07-17, 03:28
Why do you need red phosphorus? Are you making meth? I would try road flares. They have more RP then matchbooks.

MrSparkle
2008-07-17, 03:47
Swim looked at one of those links and was surprised that white P can be made so simply. Is bone ash really that abundant though? The fact it comes from bones makes me wonder. Where are all these bones coming from?

stateofhack
2008-07-17, 10:30
Swim looked at one of those links and was surprised that white P can be made so simply. Is bone ash really that abundant though? The fact it comes from bones makes me wonder. Where are all these bones coming from?

*Looks at bodies in the closet*

Dunno, look around.... :)

Eldorhan
2008-07-17, 16:46
Swim looked at one of those links and was surprised that white P can be made so simply. Is bone ash really that abundant though? The fact it comes from bones makes me wonder. Where are all these bones coming from?

Meat shops / Restaurants / Slaughterhouses.

I mean... buy a chicken (dead, idiot), boil it down for a few hours and tadaaaa, you have bones !

Hammer to reduce them (in size...) -> Grinder/Mortar -> Powder :)

fishtea
2008-07-17, 20:52
You can get boneash in the shops I assume the majority of it comes from cattle slaughterhouses. With all that beef they're producing theres gonna be a shitload of bones left over.

UK_TOM
2008-07-30, 14:30
uk tom...that was very informative, entertaining, educational, and dangerous to the average doper tryin to whoop up an average batch of fluff in the average neighborhood he lives in.

pimp shit, non the less. ive never been exsposed to that particular information, and luckily never until i was knowledgeable to appreciate it!!!

telling some of these novices to fuck with wp on any level or capacity is like letting a toddler play with a hand grenade with the pin dangling from the last hole.

ooouch.

hey kids....know what yer fucking with before you fuck with it, or.......well......ka-boom. your aunt hilda's fuckin garage will look like satan sat down for a hot second on the wood bench.

fuck under your fingernails...id worry more about your face and the room your face was kickin it in.

but...then...you fellas do as you please.....who am i to stand in the way of cool neighborhood fires!!!

peace & white foss & love & all that...shit

In fact was an exert from a library book from long ago, I believe. Should one censor information? close the libraries? stop selling matches for fear someone may set themselves on fire? or fence off the ocean to prevent the few that drown themselves each year?

Common sense states that one would research what one is dealing with prior to doing so, it is the most basic of requirements, after all.