Totse.com is no longer available!
This is a static archive of what the website used to be.
Check out the new articles and visit the community at Zoklet.net

Log in

View Full Version : The (Meth)amphetamine thread


stateofhack
2008-08-14, 00:37
I think it would be nice to have a thread for this, i know there are a few people interested in this (hugh ;) ). So i think we could have this thread to discuss various routes (pills or not) to this compound.

I say for the "crack head chemist" buy ephedra plan and work from there.

For the more "chemical" orientated: MePhO nuff said'

Or ala Joepedo: Cinnamaldehyde ;)

steve-o13
2008-08-14, 01:24
First post!
I wish I had something to add. :(
One day, one day...

stupid noob
2008-08-14, 04:38
It's not really a bad idea actually, and if it DOES work, I suppose we could make a sticky, hell, I don't know. I doubt it will stop the tards though, just like the "dedicated" threads in BLTC, they accomplish nothing.

TheBlackPope
2008-08-14, 05:14
I love it how Stupid Noob deletes my thread, which is the exact same post but actually moar informative (moar routes other then "ephedra plan" or pills).



What is the deal on motherfucking phenylalanine? Is everyone over it or what.


SOH: Elaborate/link MePhO please?

stupid noob
2008-08-14, 06:35
I don't delete threads. And anyway, I believe SOH meant this as a sort of official thread, like the DXM thread in BLTC. Keep your questions there, and not in new topics type deal.


But I do not know of which thread you speak. And you know, you don't really have much of a right to bitch about it if you didn't even bother to email me with at least a half decent reason to unlock it.

buffalo princess
2008-08-14, 09:24
Hmmmmm
BP is grasping the concept here but is somewhat confused ...

Was thinking wouldnt a crack head chemist be better off with a good
cola source instead ???
Now a crank(er) on the other hand...

But then what would she know ...

gigster
2008-08-14, 11:18
lets not and say we did

DjFloridaDeathTrip
2008-08-14, 11:38
Werd up! My kinda thread brilliant!!!

MrSparkle
2008-08-14, 14:07
Alright I'll throw in a few noob questions that popped into my mind. I heard someone say that when reducing ephedrine with Li/NH2 the ephedrine needn't be near as pure as it has to be when using RP/I therefore no need to go to such extreme lengths to degakk the pills. Is this true?

Question 2:
Is PPA / I / H2PO3 a viable route to Amphetamine?

Question 3:
What is MePhO??

hydroponichronic
2008-08-14, 20:09
I'll throw some questions too:

Would adding KI to concentrated H2SO4 form HI and KHSO4? Is this a viable way to get HI?

Is there a (relatively) OTC way to make borohydride?

nshanin
2008-08-14, 20:19
I'll throw some questions too:

Would adding KI to concentrated H2SO4 form HI and KHSO4? Is this a viable way to get HI?
Yes. As far as viability I'm not sure; I'm sure the easier way would be to titrate some idoine solution (there's some kind sold at my local walgreens). It's pretty expensive as far as iodine goes, but OTC, and you don't have to work with 98% H2SO4

Is there a (relatively) OTC way to make borohydride?

Negatory. According to the wiki you can buy trimethylborate and then react that with NaH, yielding 2 very useful and not quite OTC chemicals, but the precursors are far from OTC. LiAlH would probably be easier, unfortunately.

hydroponichronic
2008-08-14, 21:14
Yes. As far as viability I'm not sure; I'm sure the easier way would be to titrate some idoine solution (there's some kind sold at my local walgreens). It's pretty expensive as far as iodine goes, but OTC, and you don't have to work with 98% H2SO4
Could the HW store Rooto work? It's something like 93% IIRC. An acid distillation setup would be needed, but glassware is generally OTC. I remember thinking that Iodine would be a lot cheaper to get from KI, as well as having the benefit of it not being a watched chemical.
Negatory. According to the wiki you can buy trimethylborate and then react that with NaH, yielding 2 very useful and not quite OTC chemicals, but the precursors are far from OTC. LiAlH would probably be easier, unfortunately.
I was wondering also about sodium hydride. If you had molten sodium (melts at 93C), could hydrogen be bubbled through it to form NaH? If so, Trimethylborate has some legitimate applications so it's possible it could be sourced OTC...IDK, though. I have a tendency to assume things will be easier than they are.

nshanin
2008-08-14, 21:32
Could the HW store Rooto work? It's something like 93% IIRC. An acid distillation setup would be needed, but glassware is generally OTC. I remember thinking that Iodine would be a lot cheaper to get from KI, as well as having the benefit of it not being a watched chemical.
I think it should; though you'd definitely have to distill the shit out of your HI, it's only about 60-75% when acidified. Look up how to make other strong acids by acidifying their salts, I'm sure SN could tell you a lot about making HNO3 from KNO3 and H2SO4.

I always wondered why people bothered with HI/RP when you could just oxidize with bleach and reduce the subsequent ketone without much complex bullshit.

I was wondering also about sodium hydride. If you had molten sodium (melts at 93C), could hydrogen be bubbled through it to form NaH? If so, Trimethylborate has some legitimate applications so it's possible it could be sourced OTC...IDK, though. I have a tendency to assume things will be easier than they are.

No, sodium metal is watched (can you fucking believe it? :eek:), and that's far more complicated (and potentially more expensive) than buying the borohydride. The only good reason I can see for this is if you needed sodium methoxide.

hydroponichronic
2008-08-14, 22:25
I think it should; though you'd definitely have to distill the shit out of your HI, it's only about 60-75% when acidified. Look up how to make other strong acids by acidifying their salts, I'm sure SN could tell you a lot about making HNO3 from KNO3 and H2SO4.
Yea, I'm familiar with the HNO3 from KNO3. I used to be able to do pyro stuff, before the neighbors started to bitch... HNO3 is some fun stuff.
I always wondered why people bothered with HI/RP when you could just oxidize with bleach and reduce the subsequent ketone without much complex bullshit.
Really? How noncomplex? I've actually never heard of this route before. The ketone in and of itself is useful... but I thought it wouldn't oxidize with ClO. I thought KMnO4 was needed.
No, sodium metal is watched (can you fucking believe it? :eek:), and that's far more complicated (and potentially more expensive) than buying the borohydride. The only good reason I can see for this is if you needed sodium methoxide.
Back when I was doing pyro stuff, I wanted some Na. I did some reading on electrolysis, but came to the conclusion that between the temperatures required and the highly poisonous gas output, NaCl was not something I could split. NaOH, OTOH... I couldn't find any back then, but now I can source it by the kilo (cheap). Anywho, it seems like an easy enough setup. The temps are low enough that glassware could probably be used.

As for buying BH4, I've heard it is used for something in car fuel cells or some such. Could it be found at auto parts places, or is it exclusively web accessible?

nshanin
2008-08-15, 06:42
Really? How noncomplex? I've actually never heard of this route before. The ketone in and of itself is useful... but I thought it wouldn't oxidize with ClO. I thought KMnO4 was needed.
Well, not straight up bleach. You'd also need a Nickel++ salt. I linked to the ACS article from the phenylalanine-->meth thread, look that up. NiCl2 should work excellently. The bleach oxidizes it to nickel oxide hydroxide, which in turn oxidizes everything to its maximum (well, almost ;)) state. The ketone is psychoactive, but you want meth, not some BBK or some shit (the name escapes me right now). Anyway, you can then reduce the ketone completely. There are several processes to this, tell me when you find the easiest one. ;)

Back when I was doing pyro stuff, I wanted some Na. I did some reading on electrolysis, but came to the conclusion that between the temperatures required and the highly poisonous gas output, NaCl was not something I could split. NaOH, OTOH... I couldn't find any back then, but now I can source it by the kilo (cheap). Anywho, it seems like an easy enough setup. The temps are low enough that glassware could probably be used.

As for buying BH4, I've heard it is used for something in car fuel cells or some such. Could it be found at auto parts places, or is it exclusively web accessible?

Maybe if you live in Northern California or something, but no you won't find it in car shops. I wouldn't bother with the sodium personally, but if it works for you be sure to report back so you can tell me how wrong I was! :)

Shifftee
2008-08-15, 14:24
Here's my share of pointless blubbering.

BnOH + HNO3 -> Benzaldehyde

Methylamine HCl.. no need to cover routes, right ?

Nitroethane.. Now there's a bitch :\ I guess you can produce some small amounts with one of the routes proposed on the Rhodium archive or you can find a fuel additive with 0,001% nitroethane, but who tf wants to go small scale with meff anyway ?

Really.. I think the ppl who have figured out how to get nitroethane are the ones who can walk the walk in this route.

So, benzald. + nitroethane + MeNH2 (or othar primary amine, ya know..) -> P2NP

So from here it's:

1. P2NP -> Amphetamine sulfate -> ??? -> PROFIT !
2. P2NP -> Amphetamine -> Meth
3. P2NP -> P2P -> Meth

pretty basic stuff.. just thought it should be covered in this thread :)

hydroponichronic
2008-08-15, 22:11
Another question:

According to the thing I read on the reaction mechanism of Na/NH3 reduction of Pse, the dissolved electrons bust off the OH and replace it with a H+ from the NH3. This then leaves NH2- ions floating around in the birch bath. What becomes of these NH2- ions?

stateofhack
2008-08-17, 21:55
First post!
I wish I had something to add. :(
One day, one day...

:mad: ehy you contribute or GTFO (tits are not wanted because you have a penis :(

It's not really a bad idea actually, and if it DOES work, I suppose we could make a sticky, hell, I don't know. I doubt it will stop the tards though, just like the "dedicated" threads in BLTC, they accomplish nothing.

Meh, just to we can keep all the meth head and pill stuff in one place and discuss some nice routes to this!

SOH: Elaborate/link MePhO please?

No actually, Look in some of my old threads i posted A LOT of info on this, this is to my knowledge the most OTC way to Phenyl-2-Propanone (no need to tell you what to do with it after i hope)

Here is a quick run down, i will eventually make a thread for this and it will piss people off (sidenote: I have received some emails, using a disposable mail, threatening me not to post this, who you are grow some balls and mail me normally please :) )

So instead to respond to all of your replies i am going to say this

Benzaldehyde+ MEK = Methyl Phenyl Butanone

Methyl Phenyl Butanone+ Baeyer-Villiger oxidation = Phenyl-2-Propanone enol acetate (i think)

Phenyl-2-Propanone enol acetate + NaOH sol = Phenyl-2-Propanone

This works, no shadow of a doubt, bio, twodogs and many others have used this, The only "hard" to get chemical is Glacial acetic acid, but your local photochem store can help with that.

n1k
2008-08-17, 22:58
Nitroethane.. Now there's a bitch :\ I guess you can produce some small amounts with one of the routes proposed on the Rhodium archive or you can find a fuel additive with 0,001% nitroethane, but who tf wants to go small scale with meff anyway ?

Really.. I think the ppl who have figured out how to get nitroethane are the ones who can walk the walk in this route.

So, benzald. + nitroethane + MeNH2 (or othar primary amine, ya know..) -> P2NP


Is there any problem with producing Nitroethane by oxidation of ethylamine? Although apparently the stuff is produced en mass already..can't be too hard to get(got any friends who like racing cars more than a little bit?) Thumbs up on benzal routes, so much more legitimate to go from almond stuffs than reducing something bought from some pharmaceutical corp... 'sides, going the P2P way makes you a real synthetic organic chemist :)

nshanin
2008-08-18, 04:05
This works, no shadow of a doubt

I found your thread.:eek:

stateofhack
2008-08-18, 09:59
Is there any problem with producing Nitroethane by oxidation of ethylamine? Although apparently the stuff is produced en mass already..can't be too hard to get(got any friends who like racing cars more than a little bit?) Thumbs up on benzal routes, so much more legitimate to go from almond stuffs than reducing something bought from some pharmaceutical corp... 'sides, going the P2P way makes you a real synthetic organic chemist :)

Yes there is, a lot of side reaction(s) if i recall (check SM)
There are reports of US bee's finding it in 60% with ethanol, methanol or with some hydrocarbon. You could separate it with some careful distillation and cleaning (again check SM, there is a thread on this!)

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/nitroethane.html has a lot of good stuff

The method that seems the most "pratical" to me is :

Method 2: from diethyl sulfate and sodium nitrite

Initial run - Into a stoppered bottle was placed a mixture of diethyl sulfate (120g) and sodium nitrite solution (120g in 160ml of water.) The bottle was shaken mechanically for 20 hours, the pressure being released at intervals. The contents were then poured into a separating funnel, and the upper layer separated, dried over calcium chloride. and distilled at 14 mmHg, the distillate up to 60C being collected (the residue, ca. 230g., consisted of ethyl sulphate and was used again). The distillate was fractionated at atmospheric pressure, and the fraction of bp 114-116C collected. This was shaken with water, dried over calcium chloride, run through charcoal, and redistilled; bp 114-115.5C. Yield, 17.7g. (31%, or allowing for recovered ethyl sulfate, 43.5%).

Routine run - A second experiment was then carried out using the same quantity of ethyl sulfate as above. The recovered nitrite solution (lower layer) from the first run was concentrated by adding approximately 16 g. of sodium nitrite per 160ml of solution. Yield 26.4g (46%, or allowing for recovered ethyl sulphate, 65%). For each additional subsequent run approximately 16 g. of nitrite per 160 ml of solution were added, although this represents a rather diminishing concentration in view of the increased yield of nitroethane

This is because Sodium nitrite is easy to find and diethyl sulfate can be prepared with a bit of hassle, but yeah diethyl sulfate is some very very very nasty stuff :(, so bee very careful with it!

But anyways:

I found your thread.:eek:

;) Exellent :) I shall be making a new one soon enough, with some modification and a small improvement in the final step to remove the need of use of large amount of solvents and other little bits and bobs.

stateofhack
2008-08-19, 23:26
Common people, anyone have anything else to propose?

Destructive distillation of phenylacetic acid with lead acetate ;)

Joe? :(

I was hopping some of the meth heads could come and rable on about pill formulation... :(

nshanin
2008-08-20, 03:38
Destructive distillation of phenylacetic acid with lead acetate ;)

Joe? :(

He says that it can be done with calcium acetate, at 180 degrees. I don't know though, many have tried.

stateofhack
2008-08-20, 09:01
He says that it can be done with calcium acetate, at 180 degrees. I don't know though, many have tried.

Fuck, that is true, i have something about that from TheZonez! What is the yield like? I mean it would be nice to have that instead of the nasty lead acetate :)

nshanin
2008-08-20, 14:16
Fuck, that is true, i have something about that from TheZonez! What is the yield like? I mean it would be nice to have that instead of the nasty lead acetate :)

I can only assume it would be the same as with lead acetate, I see no reason for the possible mechanisms (link (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/pictures/p2p-paa-fig12.gif), link (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/p2p.phenylacetic.html)) to be different. They both obviously decarboxylate and I think that's where most of the heat would be required.

stateofhack
2008-08-22, 17:11
I can only assume it would be the same as with lead acetate, I see no reason for the possible mechanisms (link (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/pictures/p2p-paa-fig12.gif), link (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/p2p.phenylacetic.html)) to be different. They both obviously decarboxylate and I think that's where most of the heat would be required.

Ah nice to know :)
thanks for that!

hydroponichronic
2008-08-30, 02:53
According to the thing I read on the reaction mechanism of Na/NH3 reduction of Pse, the dissolved electrons bust off the OH and replace it with a H+ from the NH3. This then leaves NH2- ions floating around in the birch bath. What becomes of these NH2- ions?

Anyone? Sorry for the repost, but for all my googling, I couldn't turn this up.

BTW, this has more to do with phenylalanine-->meth thing, but could the above reaction do it? It's probably a dumb question, but it's always better to ask.

nshanin
2008-08-30, 19:45
BTW, this has more to do with phenylalanine-->meth thing, but could the above reaction do it? It's probably a dumb question, but it's always better to ask.

What part of the reaction were you thinking of?

hydroponichronic
2008-08-30, 21:42
What part of the reaction were you thinking of?

carboxyl-->alkane via birch? Wishful thinking, I'm sure... my knowledge of reducing agents is severely lacking. On WD, they mentioned that RP/I could be used at high temp/pressure (sealed in a stainless steel pipe) if there was an excess of RP or I or something. Fester said LiAlH wouldn't do it, but he wasn't very specific about why. Just for clarification, I mean Phenylalanine-->Amp.

nshanin
2008-08-31, 09:00
carboxyl-->alkane via birch? Wishful thinking, I'm sure... my knowledge of reducing agents is severely lacking. On WD, they mentioned that RP/I could be used at high temp/pressure (sealed in a stainless steel pipe) if there was an excess of RP or I or something. Fester said LiAlH wouldn't do it, but he wasn't very specific about why. Just for clarification, I mean Phenylalanine-->Amp.
I'm not familiar with birch reduction but I'd assume the carbonyl would take away electron density enough to make it ineffective. But really, I have no idea what I'm talking about so you shouldn't listen to me talk about amps.

LAH just won't reduce hydroxyls, that's how it is. I think I went over this in my post on AMT from trytpophan (and I've no doubt you saw it) and never got around to finding another first-step reducing agent besides LAH. I'll be sure to look something up when I get back to uni on Tuesday, though; if I get enough time away from reading Zizek (tinyurl.com/zizek). :mad:

hydroponichronic
2008-08-31, 18:27
LAH just won't reduce hydroxyls, that's how it is. I think I went over this in my post on AMT from trytpophan (and I've no doubt you saw it) and never got around to finding another first-step reducing agent besides LAH.
Was this in the T-->DMT halomethane thread?
if I get enough time away from reading Zizek (tinyurl.com/zizek). :mad:
Just out of curiosity, were you in policy debate in HS? I ask because zizek is huge in advanced policy debates.

nshanin
2008-08-31, 22:11
Was this in the T-->DMT halomethane thread?
I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter. I gave you the gist of the reaction already, it's just a matter of time before I go and research it some more (which is something you could do as well, not all articles are open only to those in higher education). IIRC, fcknut gave something about making a borohydride derivative with iodine and then using that to reduce the acid. Perhaps you could look that up; it really wasn't too long ago. Perhaps it was phenylalanine-->MDA or similar, I tend to integrate the 2 amino acids in my mental drug syntheses since they're so similar in what you need to do to them to get their respective backbones. Anyway, the point of the thread was to figure out a way to remove the acid group while retaining the carbon as an alternative to degrading and then adding groups to the structure.

If this is viable, however, all that remains until the really fun chems are reached is an OTC N-methylation process, but I doubt we'll get that far. Still, when borhydride eventually hits $5/kilo it might be useful to look back on.

Just out of curiosity, were you in policy debate in HS? I ask because zizek is huge in advanced policy debates.

No. I did Model United Nations once or twice but it was quite irrelevant to my political development--and I didn't know about Zizek (or even the fundamentals of my own theories) back then. I read Zizek because he's entertaining.

hrsepwrjnky
2008-09-02, 09:38
No actually, Look in some of my old threads i posted A LOT of info on this, this is to my knowledge the most OTC way to Phenyl-2-Propanone (no need to tell you what to do with it after i hope)

Here is a quick run down, i will eventually make a thread for this and it will piss people off (sidenote: I have received some emails, using a disposable mail, threatening me not to post this, who you are grow some balls and mail me normally please :) )

So instead to respond to all of your replies i am going to say this

Benzaldehyde+ MEK = Methyl Phenyl Butanone

Methyl Phenyl Butanone+ Baeyer-Villiger oxidation = Phenyl-2-Propanone enol acetate (i think)

Phenyl-2-Propanone enol acetate + NaOH sol = Phenyl-2-Propanone

This works, no shadow of a doubt, bio, twodogs and many others have used this, The only "hard" to get chemical is Glacial acetic acid, but your local photochem store can help with that.


so can and will swisoh post the details of this reaction.
peace out swihpj

stateofhack
2008-09-14, 09:25
so can and will swisoh post the details of this reaction.
peace out swihpj

Look in my older post....

noob_soup
2008-10-11, 02:03
Alright I'll throw in a few noob questions that popped into my mind. I heard someone say that when reducing ephedrine with Li/NH2 the ephedrine needn't be near as pure as it has to be when using RP/I therefore no need to go to such extreme lengths to degakk the pills. Is this true?




i think its Li/NH3. from my experience with this degakking has never been necessary. however there are serious precautions that need to be taken. such as how to safely store NH3, and safely discharging NH3. reclaiming metal from batteries.( keep a small bowl full of pet ether handy for this)

hydroponichronic
2008-10-11, 03:45
I've been a real bum for the past couple of months (haven't been doing a much reading) but I was thinking about a possible NH3 condensation method. The NaOH + NH4 salt --> NH3 + H2O + Na(X) is old stuff, and IIRC, the gas is run through a beaker with some hygroscopic salt (anhydrous something or other?) then into some cooling (condensation) chamber. What I thought of was a possible cooling chamber idea.

Propane has a BP of -42.1C while NH3 is -33.3C. If a propane tank (The $4 camping ones) is turned upside-down and the nozzle pressed open, a large quantity of it's original propane remains liquid and can be collected as such. What I was thinking was that the dry NH3 could be bubbled into a "vat" of liquid propane, where it would condense and settle as the polar layer underneath the Propane.

Because propane is pretty inert I wouldn't expect it to interfere with the reaction any, then again I have been slacking. In the event that the propane is not sufficiently cold to condense the majority of the NH3, dry ice could be added (if source-able) to the propane, prior to addition of NH3, to cool it further, though I originally thought of this method so to avoid needing dry ice.

All the ambient propane gas could be sent through a hose and either dissolved in some other NP or just combusted in air, somewhere AWAY from the reaction. BTW, I don't know if this is relevant to anyone (storage of chems and whatnot) but a standard 2L soda bottle can contain 500ml of liquid propane at 20C, though it's safer at 400ml.

EDIT: I know I should probably just UTFSE, but has anyone made any progress on this Akabori eph synth? I last remember something about high yeilds with DMSO solvent and acetic acid catalyst....

DiamondX
2008-10-11, 04:26
Hydro, that sounds really fucking dangerous to me. The propane fumes will be unavoidable, and any spark will set it off. A vat full of liquid propane would cover a pretty large area once evaporated. It's an interesting idea though, too bad so many NP solvents are so flammable.

jesus_is_my_homeboy69
2008-10-11, 08:51
In response to that idea above, why not use something like those computer cleaning Fluorocarbons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-134a

Ahh, disregard, that particular one boils above ammonia, however I bet you could find one! And they are non-flammable.

Oh, and it isn't non-polar.

fcknut
2008-10-11, 09:12
Propane has a BP of -42.1C while NH3 is -33.3C. If a propane tank (The $4 camping ones) is turned upside-down and the nozzle pressed open, a large quantity of it's original propane remains liquid and can be collected as such. What I was thinking was that the dry NH3 could be bubbled into a "vat" of liquid propane, where it would condense and settle as the polar layer underneath the Propane.

The standard method of doing such things is to use a "cold finger" - a glass tube, closed at one end, which you can fix into a larger tube or a dewar full of liquid nitrogen/other cold stuff. This would be the way to go here, though i'm not sure that 9oC would really cut it for rapid condensation (though I may well be wrong).

This would avoid the necessity of performing a phase extraction at <-40oC which would, in most cases, be a royal fucking pain in the ass, if not outright un-doable...

hydroponichronic
2008-10-11, 16:01
Hydro, that sounds really fucking dangerous to me. The propane fumes will be unavoidable, and any spark will set it off. A vat full of liquid propane would cover a pretty large area once evaporated. It's an interesting idea though, too bad so many NP solvents are so flammable.
I've done enough work with propane and butane to know how to deal with the whole FAEB effect. It's not hard to set up the entire canister discharge apparatus so that any and all fumes are directed elsewhere. My envisioned apparatus is just a 2 liter with a top hole for liquid/gas propane to enter and an "exhaust" hole on the side connected to a tube to discharge the gas.
In response to that idea above, why not use something like those computer cleaning Fluorocarbons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-134a

Ahh, disregard, that particular one boils above ammonia, however I bet you could find one! And they are non-flammable.

Oh, and it isn't non-polar.
I've actually done a little work with these too, but yea, thee BP is not good enough for the commonly available ones. They want to maximize containable gas and minimize the compression energy for most of the products, so the BP's are always low. There might be some haloalkane out there that fits the bill, but due to availability/cost issues, propane I'm thinking, would be better. With birch, you need to be able to get rid of highly toxic vapors anyway, so it would probably work out to just dispose of propane and NH3 through the same hole.
The standard method of doing such things is to use a "cold finger" - a glass tube, closed at one end, which you can fix into a larger tube or a dewar full of liquid nitrogen/other cold stuff. This would be the way to go here, though i'm not sure that 9oC would really cut it for rapid condensation (though I may well be wrong).

This would avoid the necessity of performing a phase extraction at <-40oC which would, in most cases, be a royal fucking pain in the ass, if not outright un-doable...

Phase extraction? What needs to happen? I thought the propane would separate itself from the NH3, and its inertness would mean it could be allowed to stay during the reaction.

BTW, one possible problem with this idea is that, as you said, 9C might not be enough difference to do it, So alternatively, a long glass/metal tube spiraling around in the vat might be needed to condense the NH3. Like a long, twisty cold finger.

Dr. Pot
2008-12-13, 20:45
I wonder if liquid nitrogen would work? True, it would freeze ammonia, but once it boiled off I imagine the ammonia crystals would melt. There are so many legitimate uses for LN2 you could probably pick some up without anyone getting suspicious.

Looking over the various HI/P synths, two stand out. One uses 1RP:3E:6I, and boils for 24 hours. The other uses 1RP:1E:1.5I without water and only takes a short amount of time. Now, getting RP seems to be a huge pain in the ass, so the first synth seems to be the better deal. I mean, waiting 24 hours is nothing compared to scraping 5000 matchbooks.

Still, I'm not sure how well the first method would work for small ~5 gram batches. And for cooking a small batch for a long time, would it be possible to just tape a balloon over the neck of a bottle or something? Ideally you'd have a proper flask and a distillation column, but I have a feeling those are watched even more closely than some chemicals.

DiamondX
2008-12-14, 00:16
Still, I'm not sure how well the first method would work for small ~5 gram batches. And for cooking a small batch for a long time, would it be possible to just tape a balloon over the neck of a bottle or something? Ideally you'd have a proper flask and a distillation column, but I have a feeling those are watched even more closely than some chemicals.

Thats actually what a few of the synths I've read say to do. Either a balloon or a condom. Distillation columns and most flasks aren't being watch, but if you have a reason to be paranoid then just pop into your local chem shop. I doubt they would ID you, especially if you only buy that and dress well.

Von Bass
2008-12-14, 12:56
I will sometimes stick a balloon over the end of a condenser when refluxing, say if the solvent is extremely volatile and I can smell it at the top, admittedly I could just as easily whack a column on there, and its probably bad practice. I had also considered that you could possibly use it in a reaction that forms an equilibria; the balloon nearly always inflates very slightly and it would thus increase the pressure.

FullMetalJacket
2008-12-14, 16:09
Ballooning off the top of your flask works great for small-scale bromosafrole --> MDMA instead of trying to create a full pressure bomb RV.

stateofhack
2008-12-15, 10:49
Ballooning off the top of your flask works great for small-scale bromosafrole --> MDMA instead of trying to create a full pressure bomb RV.

A cat i know has told me the same thing, but he found that the "thick" party baloons worked better..oh and there was an average loss of yield off 8 % using a balloon :cool:

TheBlackPope
2008-12-16, 08:45
How about this for a meth synth?

Run alot and excorsize for your brain to pump out phenethlyamine which converts in your body into phenylacetic acid: http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/35/5/342

> extract from urine

> p2p

nshanin
2008-12-16, 09:34
How about this for a meth synth?

Run alot and excorsize for your brain to pump out phenethlyamine which converts in your body into phenylacetic acid: http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/35/5/342

> extract from urine

> p2p

Waaaaaaay ahead of you, pal.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THR-42G5TJX-3G&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ab89f265770f66f8bbe3abb60e5508d2

Okay so you're not making your own meth, just buying PEA and then making it, but at least you don't have to bullshit around with extractions.

Sexual_Jesus
2008-12-16, 15:13
you guys are pulling our leg right? p2p out of piss.

neat idea but it certainly wont help totse's name when people start smoking there own urine, where already shit huffers...

FullMetalJacket
2008-12-16, 16:09
you guys are pulling our leg right? p2p out of piss.

neat idea but it certainly wont help totse's name when people start smoking there own urine, where already shit huffers...


I even have a faint memory of decomposing bodies developing a measureable concentration of betaphenethylamine in extracellular fluid.

Dr. Pot
2008-12-18, 18:32
How about this for a meth synth?

Run alot and excorsize for your brain to pump out phenethlyamine which converts in your body into phenylacetic acid: http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/35/5/342

> extract from urine

> p2p
Exercise creates meth? Wow, guess that means the DEA is gonna have to ban exercise equipment and running shoes now...

wolfy_9005
2008-12-21, 15:54
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/2005/04/ice-crank-speed-methamphetamine.html

Dunno where to put this. But.....just read it lol

Apparently Shulgin has a new book comming out.....

fcknut
2008-12-21, 16:53
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/2005/04/ice-crank-speed-methamphetamine.html

Dunno where to put this. But.....just read it lol

Apparently Shulgin has a new book comming out.....


errmm...ok...

didn't spot the bit about the new book in there?

wolfy_9005
2008-12-22, 13:08
Gotta read a bit more into the site...

But i posted it for the bit at the end, where he say's something about the old DEA ad to stop people using meth :P

The tape begins with a deep voice accompanied by descriptive sound effects:

The ingredients. Sulfuric acid: an industrial corrosive used in lead storage batteries ... it can eat through cloth, metal or flesh (hiss). Red phosphorus: used to make fireworks and the striker surface on packets of matches (sizzle). Mercury: Banned from toxic paints. Used in electronics, fluorescent lamps and cathode ray tubes (click, hum, crackle). Phenylacetic acid: commonly used in insect repellants (buzz). Aluminum foil: commonly used to bake your Christmas turkey (sizzle).



The announcement concluded with:

Nine out of ten chemists say it's a bad idea to put these materials in your brain. It all goes into making methamphetamine hydrochloride, "crank," "ice" or "speed." Nine out of ten chemists say, "Don't." The tenth chemist (explosion) was unavailable for comment. This is the Drug Enforcement Administration urging you to think twice before you speed.

The words of the ad for those that cbf'd looking in the site. I laughed :)

Von Bass
2008-12-22, 17:16
the old DEA ad to stop people using meth :P

Some day I'm going to make a spoof youtube video of the same ilk. Possibly I'll detail the chemicals used to make aspirin or paracetamol, then point out that many of those would also be rather poisonous to 'put these materials in your brain'.

fcknut
2008-12-22, 17:24
Some day I'm going to make a spoof youtube video of the same ilk. Possibly I'll detail the chemicals used to make aspirin or paracetamol, then point out that many of those would also be rather poisonous to 'put these materials in your brain'.

Do it!


Hang on, I thought we were supposed to be sacrificing you...?

Dang, took my eye off the ball there huh?!

Von Bass
2008-12-22, 17:42
Do it!

Alrighty, if we were going for aspirin, that would be

sodium phenolate to the sodium salt of salicylic acid, via CO2 and NaOH, and then converted to salicylic acid with sulphuric.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Kolbe-Schmitt.png/800px-Kolbe-Schmitt.png)

Then salicylic to aspirin via simple esterification with acetic anhydride.

That gives us phenol, NaOH, H2SO4 and acetic anhydride to rant about the dangers of...

fcknut
2008-12-22, 18:08
"9 out of 10 chemists would advise you not to inject phenol into your eyeballs..."

wolfy_9005
2008-12-23, 06:43
^lol

The other one got lost on the way to the interview....injecting stuff into your eyes is stupid :/

thizz all day
2008-12-24, 12:18
That's, that's, that, that, that, that, that's, that's the recipe.

TheBlackPope
2008-12-25, 20:20
alanine+zinc+formaldehyde = n-methyl-alanine
n-methyl-alanine + benzaldehyde in DMSO=
pse/phed


edit-
UF FROM WD

stateofhack
2008-12-25, 21:24
alanine+zinc+formaldehyde = n-methyl-alanine
n-methyl-alanine + benzaldehyde in DMSO=
pse/phed

Lets all go to WD and steal there hard work..but anyways (i think), there is no solid proof that it works..

TheBlackPope
2008-12-26, 04:42
Lets all go to WD and steal there hard work..but anyways (i think), there is no solid proof that it works..

Well UF is generally legit and doesnt fuck around. And why is it stealing? The more info spread around the more ideas will come out of it. This isn't about fucking credit for a synthesis, it is about meth. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anyways, look at an n-methyl-l-alanine molecule, and look at a benzaldehyde molecule.

Then look at an ephedrine molecule.

Google up benzaldehydes effects on amino acids.

In theory it should work.

shitpickle
2008-12-26, 05:12
fucking meth.
im sure you dont care, but smoking bleach and sudafed isnt good for you.

L'Explorateur
2008-12-26, 15:10
fucking meth.
im sure you dont care, but smoking bleach and sudafed isnt good for you.

Maybe try reading the thread even just a little bit before you post something in it? Maybe then you won't fail as much.

stateofhack
2008-12-27, 16:06
Well UF is generally legit and doesnt fuck around. And why is it stealing? The more info spread around the more ideas will come out of it. This isn't about fucking credit for a synthesis, it is about meth. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anyways, look at an n-methyl-l-alanine molecule, and look at a benzaldehyde molecule.

Then look at an ephedrine molecule.

Google up benzaldehydes effects on amino acids.

In theory it should work.

Yes, i know what your saying and accept for coming down so harsh on you. But please next time try to make some sort of ref to where it came from.

And i will look into what you said! Thank you and sorry again!

TheBlackPope
2008-12-29, 05:29
Oh, my bad I thought you were trying to act like because it was thought up on WD it should be kept there instead of moved around.

Next time I'll include my source.

hydroponichronic
2008-12-29, 09:22
That thread at SM has been up since '06. ITS A FUCKING ~OTC ROUTE TO EPH/PSE. WHY THE FUCK HAS THIS TAKEN 3 YEARS?!?! You'd think there's enough money in it that this would have been pioneered years ago, but no. I'm so lazy. lol.

Oh, and while this doesn't belong here, piperonal from vanillin is easy as shit (rhodium) and seeing as how vanillin is relatively unregulated (as opposed to just benzald) this might also be a productive train of thought...

IIRC, someone 'round these parts developed a piperonal from black peppers that was also fairly easy (extract + KMnO4?).

TheBlackPope
2008-12-29, 20:12
What about extracting it from mau hung from that one ethnobotanical supplier?

Von Bass
2008-12-30, 11:18
What about extracting it from mau hung from that one ethnobotanical supplier?

I seem to recall people had trouble extracting it straight from the plant matter, but had a hell of a lot more success working on 'fortified extracts' for some reason. Generally it was just a simple A/B with chloroform as the NP :)

stateofhack
2008-12-31, 18:40
I seem to recall people had trouble extracting it straight from the plant matter, but had a hell of a lot more success working on 'fortified extracts' for some reason. Generally it was just a simple A/B with chloroform as the NP :)

Listen to this man also, gas your NP. But the crystals you get are a lot more hygroscopic for some reason :confused:

MrSparkle
2009-01-06, 18:36
Lets all go to WD and steal there hard work..but anyways (i think), there is no solid proof that it works..
Spreading information isn't stealing. Why not bring info from there to here. Theres always someone on drugs-forum bringing shit from WD and vice versa.

MrSparkle
2009-01-06, 18:38
What about extracting it from mau hung from that one ethnobotanical supplier?
I wonder if the fact Ma Huang grows all over China has anything to do with the fact China is the worlds largest exporter of ephedrine. I woulda thought it would be just as viable to set up large scale system for manufacturing it synthetically.

fcknut
2009-01-06, 19:54
I wonder if the fact Ma Huang grows all over China has anything to do with the fact China is the worlds largest exporter of ephedrine. I woulda thought it would be just as viable to set up large scale system for manufacturing it synthetically.


SWIM bought some Ma Huang from a chinese pharmacy in Beijing, and it cost him ~$0.80 / kg. Bargain!


I would imagine that, given that ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are both found in the plant matter, among several other compounds, that a synthetic apporach would be much more viable on an industrial scale - generally, it is far easier to manufacture pure material than to seperate complex mixtures at large scales...