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View Full Version : too quite/ easiest otc precursers


Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-06, 08:06
god damn this forum has been quite for a long time, all the contributing folks here your all the best and smartest scientists ive seen and there always use to be brilliant ideas, the boys over at the drugs-forum are just as boring.

so to put all your brilliant minds to use lets go back to the basics of the easiest precursers to get from your local hardware store/ plastic chemical supplier. im seeing a lot of threads elseware on otc ways to make amps from benzylhyde, i searched high and low and everyone seems to have mixed ideas on what it contains and how easy almond oil (what supposibly has benzylhyde in it) is to get, after doing a bit of basic research i also found out that parsley leaves would be a brilliant way to get phenethylamines.

is piperanol still easy to make and the best route to mdma. someone said a long time ago that you could make it out of pepper?.

also theres an easy one i found out called sugandah kokila oil, also called cinnamon oil which by all rites seems to be the easiest precurser to find. im not asking to be spoonfed but after i found out gaba, gbl and hydrogen cyanide are all scheduled in my country what is these days easiest precursers to get, lets all put our heads togethor and find the easiest way to Phenethylamine or tryptamine that we can test and prove and build on to show other forums that where just plain better, also sudafed is out of the question. we need something that can be built enmasse unwatched.

(also praise whatever diety you pray to acetone and Naoh are both unwatched in aus)

(edit) theres a tree called camphor laurel thats a pest down under, a japenese tree thats rootbark is 80% safrole, probably just as numoures in the states, itd be almost to easy to make mdma out of them if it wasnt so hard finding the bastards...

jesus_is_my_homeboy69
2008-10-06, 08:57
after doing a bit of basic research i also found out that parsley leaves would be a brilliant way to get phenethylamines.

Ref?

is piperanol still easy to make and the best route to mdma. someone said a long time ago that you could make it out of pepper?.
It still seems quite viable even considering the nitroethane issue (can be made from ethyl halide which in turn is made from a halide salt and ethanol). Sodium Borohydride would be the only obstacle IMO but it isn't scheduled (yet!)*. Would also start from a product called "Oleoresins" - that would save the trouble of extracting the piperine from pepper to start with.

but after i found out gaba, gbl and hydrogen cyanide are all scheduled in my country
GABA isn't scheduled AFAIK, it's sold on a certain auction site...

(edit) theres a tree called camphor laurel thats a pest down under, a japenese tree thats rootbark is 80% safrole, probably just as numoures in the states, itd be almost to easy to make mdma out of them if it wasnt so hard finding the bastards...Yeah, my friend actually went for a nice nature stroll before in an attempt to locate one, failed as his knowledge and ability to identify plants fails in general. My mate is going to try a local nursery where the bloke knows his shit and go from there.

* Don't quote me on that, I've lost the scheduled substance list and can't seem to find it again

Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-06, 14:34
hey jesus, nice name i always love a fan ;), cheers for the quick reply too.

from that parsley thing i went back and reread where i heard of it and its full of myristicin which is mmda, which if i remember correctly had a thread about it where everyone proved that you cant turn it into mdma, next idea i guess...
"quoted from drugs-forum thread http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67524" (because not everyone has an account there)
most of these synths are applicable to all the essential oils-specifically the bright star synth. below aresome essential oils and their respective end products:


EUGENOL 4-methoxy allylbenzene>>>4(para) methoxyamphetamine (bad stuff. Blood pressure/body temp elevator)


METHYLEUGENOL dimethoxy allylbenzene>>>dimethoxyamphetamine(bromi nate for DOB,methylate for DOM/STP. DMA itself is just speedy and supposedly non-trippy. DOB is a good value cuz it doses in like 2-3mg)


CALAMUS OIL/ASARONEtrimethoxy allylbenzene>>>TMA-2


PARSLEYLEAF OIL/MYRISTICIN methoxy methylenedioxyallylbenzene>>>>MMDA (Very like MDMA in ,i think, smaller doses)


tetramethoxy allylbenzene>>>"TA" Shulgin used this synthetic oil but did not go high enough in dosage to find activity. By all rights it should be very active tho.


SWIM has never synthed anything here but common logic dictates that a simple synth (Wacker oxidation to repective ketone>>>Al/Hg Amalgam Reductive amination)should work for all of these. it should be noted that some of these oils have stimulant properties of their own.


here are some sources for oils>>


parsley leaf oil nad calamus can be found in a decent health food store. Eugenol is sold in a temporary cavity filling kit called dentemp. Dont know about methyl eugenol. tetramethoxy allyl benzene is synthetic and does not occur in nature to anyones knowledge.
"the end"
i heard somewhere that you can turn nitromethane into nitroethane thats used in those toy cars.
i liked your ideas with oleoresins of piperine, anyone even mentioning using piperine for mdma synths make me weak in the knees so to try and make other people as interested heres some love http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/piperazines/piperazines_chemistry1.shtml
piperine from pepper or oleoresins, turn it to piperidine or get some benzoquilones and turn to piperazines, none of these seem usefull unless you make bzp though...

also a local nursery would be a good idea but i havnt had a lot of luck because the people there dont seem to know much except for the important and lovely plants, but then again i was searching for salvia back then lol

nshanin
2008-10-07, 03:06
from that parsley thing i went back and reread where i heard of it and its full of myristicin which is mmda
*head explodes from stupidity*

which if i remember correctly had a thread about it where everyone proved that you cant turn it into mdma, next idea i guess...
Of course not. Do those methoxy groups look like they're going anywhere anytime soon?! :mad:

EDIT: Well they could if you wanted them to, but at the same time there are easier ways to MDMA and methoxies should be saved because O-methylation is a bitch.

Everybody knows about essential oil syntheses, and while there may be ways around it, typically the best way to make them is via the methods described in Pihkal. Unfortunately, not all of us have access to some of the more important chemicals. :( If you want the easiest way to product A, your best bet is to read the archives.

Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-07, 05:34
ur pihkal describes that mmda is a recreational drug with subtle effects similiar to acid, synthed using dihydroxybenzylhyde instead of buying the parsley oil.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal132.shtml

the 2cb synth looked the most interesting using a hard to get precurser called 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde which can be made from 2-methyl-4-methoxyphenol http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/3-me-2.5-meo-ba.html
but then again that seems just as hard to get, theres got to be one very easy to get or synth precurser, all the synths on pihkal seem insanly complicated compared to using essential oils or oleoresins but during anyones next reply feel free to post a link where i can download the first half of the book, i could use some bed time reading material ;)

Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-07, 05:43
trimothybenzyldehyde to make tma looks interesting even though u need nitroethane and its needed in high quanities to get a good buzz, OTC online but buying from dodgy chinesemen is never a good idea. thoughts? is it something that a plastics supplier may be able to order or is that just plain idiotic thinking

jesus_is_my_homeboy69
2008-10-07, 06:23
the 2cb synth looked the most interesting using a hard to get precurser called 2,5-dimethoxybenzaldehyde
See here
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/anethole.2c-b.pdf


Basically browse the Rhodium archive, it's got some good shit in there!

Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-07, 09:38
cheers jesus, im sorry your links dead though but i searched rhodium for anethole and shit just became interesting
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/oxone.epoxidation.html
an easy to find oil that can be used instead of isosafrole to make p2p or mdp2p
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/peracetic.chromic.html
this is another that states that aserone and anethole from oils can be used instead of isosafrole
"What alkenes can be used?
For those not familiar with what 100mmol alkene is, it is 16.2g isosafrole, 14.8g anethole or 20.8g asarone. This method was tested out with anethole, isosafrole and asarone. The only rearrangement used on the glycol was a 15% H2SO4 rearrangement for just over 2 hours with the presence of methanol as in the Oxone document."


this one says acetonitrile used as paint stripper contains isosafrole.
"Isosafrole in acetonitrile + H2O2 in methanol + sodium carbonate (pH 8-10.5), at 10-45C for 20h gives 94% isosafrole epoxide1. This can be rearranged to MDP2P in about 90% overall yield"
anyone know if its bullshit wikipedia doesnt say anything about isosafrole being a key ingredient in acetronitrile
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/safrolepoxide.html

fcknut
2008-10-07, 11:09
this one says acetonitrile used as paint stripper contains isosafrole.

Where does it say that ?


anyone know if its bullshit wikipedia doesnt say anything about isosafrole being a key ingredient in acetronitrile
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/safrolepoxide.html

No, it's not, but I don't think that was what the author was implying. Acetonitrile is a fairly common organic solvent, which the author happened to choose for this reaction...

DiamondX
2008-10-07, 22:14
this one says acetonitrile used as paint stripper contains isosafrole.
"Isosafrole in acetonitrile + H2O2 in methanol + sodium carbonate (pH 8-10.5), at 10-45C for 20h gives 94% isosafrole epoxide1. This can be rearranged to MDP2P in about 90% overall yield"
anyone know if its bullshit wikipedia doesnt say anything about isosafrole being a key ingredient in acetronitrile
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/safrolepoxide.html

That says you mix all that together, you put the isosafrole in the acetonitrile.

Do we have enough rhodium references? Heres another, by Shulgin himself:
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/dmmda.shulgin.html
Talks about some other essential oils that could be used, like apiole to get DMMDA.

Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-08, 06:30
my mistake guys,i fucked up lol, i should spend more time reading then dancing around in joy :)

Is the jury still out on anethole and aserone being the most perfect otc phen precursers available? or can anyone think of anything more usefull?

{edit} benzoquinone looks apealing, found at photochemist suppliers, anyone had any experiences?

nshanin
2008-10-08, 19:15
Since we're talking about methoxylated phenethylamines I figured I'd bring up the synthesis of dimethoxymescaline (http://www.mediafire.com/file/nnkrwy5cymd/dimethoxymescaline.pdf) (or pentamethoxy phenethylamine), which cannot be broken down by mescaline oxidases and thus is far more active (about 8 times according to that link) than one would assume. A good precursor to this (and cousin to benzoquinone) is Coenzyme Q10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiquinone), which is OTC in vitamin shoppes and actually given out free if you type it into google (though I haven't verified this yet). The only problems I see with this is oxidizing the 1 position so that you can work with it. Cleaving the double bond shouldn't be too difficult, and if bad turns to worse you could always make it an ethoxy group (or leave it as an alkane, which I don't think would be a good idea as far as effects go). There's not a hell of a lot about this compound in the literature and I haven't found much related to dosage or subjective experience, so making it would be the mark of a true ghetto chemist, not just making the most of a drug from the cheapest product, but true innovation.

Additionally, since you're starting with that 1-methyl group (:mad: tell me if there's any way besides KMnO4 to make this more useful) it shouldn't take too much more to make pentamethoxyamphetamine instead.

EDIT: Or you could make a dioxole ring, which I know is what you're interested in. :rolleyes: It would be tough though, to make sure that you cyclize the 3,4 groups you'd need to make that the first reaction, but the ring isn't very stable to many reagents so it would be difficult to keep it that way while keeping the other groups acyclic. Or fuck it, you could cyclicize (almost) all of them! ;) Don't think I've seen that before, could somebody with some time on their hands research that? :(

EDIT2: Okay, it should be easy to make the alkylamine by oxidizing the isoprene chain (would it oxidize the now-dearomatized ring? Who knows!?), which is a godsend, but that methyl group would still need to be oxidized and the process doesn't look friendly to your other methoxies. The only solution I can think of is to leave it unoxidized and see if that is effective. I have no doubt it would be at least as effective as mescaline, but I don't know enough about the activity of 2-methyl PEAs (and apparently neither does Shulgin) to be able to say by how much. Off to the internets.

EDIT3: I'm back from the internets. Nothing. :( You'll either need a hamster (human or otherwise ;)) or do more research than I've done so far. I don't think the data for actual compounds is out there (though please prove me wrong) but looking up the metabolism of various 2-substituted PEAs (perhaps even that of ubiquinone itself) should tell you enough to know if you could leave that methyl group alone. I have calculus homework, otherwise I'd be doing that. :(:( Another case of school getting in the way of education.

fcknut
2008-10-08, 20:17
There's not a hell of a lot about this compound in the literature

yup (http://www.evilshare.com/beb2b060-e6c5-102b-a7be-00a0c993e9d6) hardly anything...

But I reckon there may be a way to perform a palladium catalyzed C-H activation, given that the reaction would presumably transition through a 7-membered ring and there shouldn't be much risk of attacking anything else...

dunno though...

nshanin
2008-10-08, 20:47
yup (http://www.evilshare.com/beb2b060-e6c5-102b-a7be-00a0c993e9d6) hardly anything...
Okay, maybe a few articles, but certainly none about activity in man.... right?

But I reckon there may be a way to perform a palladium catalyzed C-H activation, given that the reaction would presumably transition through a 7-membered ring and there shouldn't be much risk of attacking anything else...

dunno though...

I don't know, I've kinda gotten myself interested in the methyl substitution; maybe I'm just in it for the pharmacology ;). Though I'm sure there are several pathways to oxidize it I tried to stray from that in my research because it looked like the methoxy hydrogens were more acidic and susceptible to oxidation than the aromatic methyl hydrogens. There's more than likely a CoQ10 derivative that has 2-substituents that would be more favourable to oxidation (or oxidized themselves). I'll search for it (when I'm done with homework) and see what turns up.

DiamondX
2008-10-08, 21:12
my mistake guys,i fucked up lol, i should spend more time reading then dancing around in joy :)

Is the jury still out on anethole and aserone being the most perfect otc phen precursers available? or can anyone think of anything more usefull?

{edit} benzoquinone looks apealing, found at photochemist suppliers, anyone had any experiences?

I think I would prefer apiole>DMMDA, it looks funner and safer than PMA.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal058.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pma/pma.shtml

nshanin
2008-10-08, 21:20
I think I would prefer apiole>DMMDA, it looks funner and safer than PMA.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal058.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pma/pma.shtml

There aren't too many chemicals that don't have their own "Glowing Experiences" section on erowid's trip reports. Sounds nasty.

Von Bass
2008-10-09, 15:49
There aren't too many chemicals that don't have their own "Glowing Experiences" section on erowid's trip reports. Sounds nasty.

Granted, but I gotta say I agree with DiamondX, everyone who I've heard of that's taken PMA, either on purpose or accidentally has hated it, and a friend of a friend ended up in hospital over that stuff. Also I've heard a lot of people claiming that PMA is about as bad as piperazines in terms of serotonin pump damage and neurotoxicity.

That is to say, I've never seen any decent research on DMMDA, or is it used as commonly as PMA, and so there is obviously the possibility that it is as bad, better or worse. Too bad Shulgin's synthesis used pyridine, tetranitromethane and LAH.

nshanin
2008-10-09, 15:57
That is to say, I've never seen any decent research on DMMDA, or is it used as commonly as PMA, and so there is obviously the possibility that it is as bad, better or worse. Too bad Shulgin's synthesis used pyridine, tetranitromethane and LAH.

It should actually be just as easy as MDMA from safrole. You'll need to extract the apiole first however. Shulgin puts himself through too much work by isomerizing and using the isoallyl, maybe he just wanted to wave his chemical dick in our faces.

fcknut
2008-10-09, 16:28
Okay, maybe a few articles, but certainly none about activity in man.... right?

I think you're mistaken - there was no sarcasm intended in my post! That is literally the only reference i found for that compound...


I don't know, I've kinda gotten myself interested in the methyl substitution; maybe I'm just in it for the pharmacology

I reckon replacing the methyl may be a bit of wild goose chase... Don't quote me on that, but I had a quick look and couldn't find anything...

nshanin
2008-10-09, 16:36
I think you're mistaken - there was no sarcasm intended in my post! That is literally the only reference i found for that compound...
Damn.... but you know what that means!

I reckon replacing the methyl may be a bit of wild goose chase... Don't quote me on that, but I had a quick look and couldn't find anything...

Replacing it or keeping it there? I know 3,4,5,6 methoxy is the most potent 4-methoxy compund so a methyl group would definitely not inactivate it. There's no question that messing around with it would do nothing but I was wondering how potent it would be as compared to the pentamethoxy compound if taken from a demethylated derivative of CoQ10 (if one exists).

fcknut
2008-10-09, 17:23
Damn.... but you know what that means!

errmmm...?!


Replacing it or keeping it there? I know 3,4,5,6 methoxy is the most potent 4-methoxy compund so a methyl group would definitely not inactivate it. There's no question that messing around with it would do nothing but I was wondering how potent it would be as compared to the pentamethoxy compound if taken from a demethylated derivative of CoQ10 (if one exists).

Im confused now...! Perhaps we could draw pictures!? I always feel better talking in pictures when it comes to chemistry...!

DiamondX
2008-10-09, 20:01
Granted, but I gotta say I agree with DiamondX, everyone who I've heard of that's taken PMA, either on purpose or accidentally has hated it, and a friend of a friend ended up in hospital over that stuff. Also I've heard a lot of people claiming that PMA is about as bad as piperazines in terms of serotonin pump damage and neurotoxicity.

That is to say, I've never seen any decent research on DMMDA, or is it used as commonly as PMA, and so there is obviously the possibility that it is as bad, better or worse. Too bad Shulgin's synthesis used pyridine, tetranitromethane and LAH.

I keep finding info about DMMDA-2 instead of DMMDA, Shulgin seems to like it more: (edit: Shulgin never tasted or synthesized DMMDA-2, he quoted someone else)
(with 50 mg) I am into it; it is much like MDA.


I'm not too sure what this means:
C. F. Barfknecht, of Idaho University, tells us that there is preliminary evidence that these olefins may be aminated in the living organism, and this reaction can be readily performed in vitro. There are two additional essential oils known that contain the methylenedioxy ring. These are apiole (Ie) and dillapiole (If) (Table 1). the two naturally occurring aromatic ethers are the two possible ring-methoxylated analogues of myristicin.
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/dmmda.shulgin.html (first paragraph)
It almost sounds like apiole and dillapiole will be metabolized into DMMDA and DMMDA-2, respectively. I kind of remember JP talking about rabbit livers having an enzyme to do something like this (don't remember what exactly)...

edit:It was not possible to isolate useful quantities of dillapiole, so it was obtained synthetically and converted through the above steps to DMMDA-2.
[...]
The syndrome of DMMDA-2 intoxication was qualitatively similar in nature [to DMMDA]; the threshold was first observed at 400 ug/kg and an effective range was established as lying between 600-1000 ug/kg. DMMDA-2 has therefore an activity intermediate between DMMDA and MMDA, the latter being active in the vicinity of 2-2.5 mg/kg.

nshanin
2008-10-10, 19:49
Im confused now...! Perhaps we could draw pictures!? I always feel better talking in pictures when it comes to chemistry...!

I don't have a good chemistry drawing program at my disposal right now and would rather not waste time on pubmed, so let's put it this way:

CoQ10-->2-methyl, 3,4,5,6-tetramethoxy phenethylamine. I want to know the pharmacalogical funcionality of that methyl group. Write more later.

fcknut
2008-10-11, 09:18
I don't have a good chemistry drawing program at my disposal right now and would rather not waste time on pubmed, so let's put it this way:

CoQ10-->2-methyl, 3,4,5,6-tetramethoxy phenethylamine. I want to know the pharmacalogical funcionality of that methyl group. Write more later.


Oh I get ya!

I have no idea whatsoever...

Oh well...

nshanin
2008-10-11, 15:48
I have no idea whatsoever...

You know what that means!

Eldorhan
2008-10-13, 21:26
i found out gaba, gbl and hydrogen cyanide are all scheduled in my country

I lol'd :D

Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-15, 13:43
I lol'd :D

lol who ever knows that cyanide is illegal... haha. well it looks like you boys have been chattin away while ive been hiding. I like your idea diamondx about actually turning mmda into something usefull, but i dont think dmmda is very good, i recently hired a book on drugs called "australian drug guide, by dr jonathan upfal" i saw it there and decided to rent it randomly. but theres a good chapter about benzoquinone or coenzyme q10 as nshanin said.
a cheap vitamin "coenzyme q10, which is also known as uniquinone, is one form of a substance known as coenzyme q that is found in all plant and animal cells, increasing scientific evidence suggests that coenzyme q10 is a useful adjunct in a wide range of heart deseases such as congestive heart failure, etc etc"
ive seen a few synths on the hive for benzoquinone but im a little intoxicated to find them know, ill edit my post tomorrow and give some links to get the cogs turning.

stateofhack
2008-10-16, 02:52
I am currently to lazy to bitch at everyone and will do so tomorow (with some refs) but let me tell you that the leukart reaction to get DMMDA-2 will get you 30-50% yeilds and a sticky mess.

More later..

EnergyRecru
2008-11-21, 14:54
A couple of years ago my doctor suggested that i took serotonin to help with insomnia and the fibromyalgia. Stubborn as I know I am I refused to take them as I really dont like taking anything that messes with your hormones. However, now after reading more on the benefits of serotonin I can see how much i could possibly benefit from it.
Over the past few months my fibromyalgia has become progressively worse. I am totally worn out all the time. This is worsened by the fact that i am hardly sleeping and even when i do I dont feel as it is the deep refreshing sleep that i need. I am quite often going for 4 or 5 days without even 10 mins unbroken sleep.My eating has become very bingy and I am constantly craving sugary or high carb foods... My weight just seems to be piling on and I am now at least 2 stone overweight.As for my emotional well being.. I seem to spend half of the time crying! I feel i have very little control over my emotions and i flip from feeling very sad to very angry.I have no concentration at all and my motivation for doing anything has disappeared. I just dont have the energy for anything!Anyway... back to the point of the post... Are any of you taking Serotonin or 5-HTP? Has it made any difference for you? Which is better to take.. I like the idea of the something that helps my body to produce serotonin instead of just taking the hormone itself.Anyway.. thanks for any help any of you can provide.

stupid noob
2008-11-21, 16:49
A couple of years ago my doctor suggested that i took serotonin to help with insomnia and the fibromyalgia. Stubborn as I know I am I refused to take them as I really dont like taking anything that messes with your hormones. However, now after reading more on the benefits of serotonin I can see how much i could possibly benefit from it.
Over the past few months my fibromyalgia has become progressively worse. I am totally worn out all the time. This is worsened by the fact that i am hardly sleeping and even when i do I dont feel as it is the deep refreshing sleep that i need. I am quite often going for 4 or 5 days without even 10 mins unbroken sleep.My eating has become very bingy and I am constantly craving sugary or high carb foods... My weight just seems to be piling on and I am now at least 2 stone overweight.As for my emotional well being.. I seem to spend half of the time crying! I feel i have very little control over my emotions and i flip from feeling very sad to very angry.I have no concentration at all and my motivation for doing anything has disappeared. I just dont have the energy for anything!Anyway... back to the point of the post... Are any of you taking Serotonin or 5-HTP? Has it made any difference for you? Which is better to take.. I like the idea of the something that helps my body to produce serotonin instead of just taking the hormone itself.Anyway.. thanks for any help any of you can provide.

A doctor pushing 5-HTP? You found a good doctor. Now, if that fucker tries to push reuptake inhibition drugs such as prozac or cymbalta, you stab that motherfucker in the face with a rusty ice pick.


But yeah, take 5-htp and tyrosine man, you will notice a difference.

nshanin
2008-11-22, 06:21
A couple of years ago my doctor suggested that i took serotonin to help with insomnia and the fibromyalgia. Stubborn as I know I am I refused to take them as I really dont like taking anything that messes with your hormones. However, now after reading more on the benefits of serotonin I can see how much i could possibly benefit from it.
Over the past few months my fibromyalgia has become progressively worse. I am totally worn out all the time. This is worsened by the fact that i am hardly sleeping and even when i do I dont feel as it is the deep refreshing sleep that i need. I am quite often going for 4 or 5 days without even 10 mins unbroken sleep.My eating has become very bingy and I am constantly craving sugary or high carb foods... My weight just seems to be piling on and I am now at least 2 stone overweight.As for my emotional well being.. I seem to spend half of the time crying! I feel i have very little control over my emotions and i flip from feeling very sad to very angry.I have no concentration at all and my motivation for doing anything has disappeared. I just dont have the energy for anything!Anyway... back to the point of the post... Are any of you taking Serotonin or 5-HTP? Has it made any difference for you? Which is better to take.. I like the idea of the something that helps my body to produce serotonin instead of just taking the hormone itself.Anyway.. thanks for any help any of you can provide.

Let food be your medicine and your medicine be your food.

What's more important for you, hormonal balance, or continuing the life you're living now? Because neurotransmitter precursors will help get you closer to that hormonal balance, your disease is "messing with your horomones", taking supplements will get it back to normal.

fcknut
2008-11-22, 16:26
Over the past few months my fibromyalgia has become progressively worse.

Just FYI, I've heard that kratom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom) may be good for alleviating the sysmptoms of fibromyalgia. Not sure what the evidence is - I believe it may be only anecdotal - but may be worth checking out...

eesakiwi
2008-11-25, 07:06
. I am totally worn out all the time. This is worsened by the fact that i am hardly sleeping and even when i do I dont feel as it is the deep refreshing sleep that i need. I am quite often going for 4 or 5 days without even 10 mins unbroken sleep.My eating has become very bingy and I am constantly craving sugary or high carb foods... My weight just seems to be piling on and I am now at least 2 stone overweight.As for my emotional well being.. .


Might be a 'Gluten' thing. Get acid reflux?

Try a gluten free diet for a while, 5 days & you would notice the differance.

Food wise, roast meals & chinese (rice) are probably easyer to deal with.

I have found Malt seems to be my big problem.
Theres malt in Rices & cornflakes, I can't figure out why they put it in there.
There seems to be no reason for it.

I have read a conspiracy sorta thing about it & that they add some other thing as well to offset the effect the Malt has on you.

This would be StupidNoobs area of work I think, he'd know why.