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  #1  
Old 10-07-2010, 06:36 AM
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Default Airsoft lower for ar 15

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Old 10-07-2010, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

It's a myth spread by antigun media outlets.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

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Old 10-07-2010, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Yeah, the truth is is that AR15 upper do fit the lowers, but the hammer can not strike the firing pin as the trigger packs on the airsoft lowers are different than the real AR15 trigger pack.

A real AR15 trigger pack would not fit unless the airsoft lower was machined to accept them.

However, I am sure the effort required to machine an airsoft lower to accept AR15/M16 trigger parts would take more time than would be needed to convert a real AR15 lower to accept M16 full auto parts.

Also, we are talking about the ATF here.

They are the same people the declared that a shoe string is a machine gun.

I'm not kidding.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Check out the ATF Special Agent's weapon knowledge at 1:18

[youtube]9rEuTwYALho[/youtube]
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

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Old 10-07-2010, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Ain't my forum dude.

The regulars and contributing post make and "own" the forum.

But thanks
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  #8  
Old 10-07-2010, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
Ain't my forum dude.

The regulars and contributing post make and "own" the forum.

But thanks
LOL thanks. Yeah I remember there was a thread about this a while back and there was an argument about it. The pins look like they are in the right place but the airsoft guy was a dumbass. Obviously no one is going to try to chamber a 5.56 round into a 8mm airsoft barrel(DUR DUR). You would have to retrofit the lower to accept an ar15/m16 trigger group and you would have to retrofit it to accept an ar15/m16 upper receiver. I doubt the take down and trigger pin sizes match up or are to spec. The positioning probably is not exact.
It probably wouldn't be able to handle the shock of a 5.56 if you could even accomplish it.

Also I am not sure about the legality here but if you were to convert it to a functioning semi auto rifle wouldn't it be like building a rifle from scratch, IIRC you are alowed to build your own firearms from scratch that require no serial # as long as you are manufacturing it for yourself and not going to sell it.
This is pretty old.

Last edited by ilovechronic; 10-07-2010 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Possible and very easy...

Quote:
“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.

Having concluded that several other airsoft guns could not be converted to fire real ammunition, Gonnuscio said he was surprised to find that he was able to to transform this particular gun to the real thing -- and with “minimal work,” because its bottom half, or “receiver,” is so similar to an AR-15's.

To make the airsoft receiver function just like an AR-15’s, Gonnuscio said, “All you have to do is drill one hole.”

And once that's out of the way, the rest is even easier. The AR-15 receiver is the only part of the semi-automatic rifle that is given a serial number, and is the only part that is regulated. All the remaining parts of the real thing can be purchased by anyone – any kid, criminal or terrorist.

The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon, Gonnuscio said.

Making it into a machine gun, he said, would require yet another conversion, and the makeshift gun would likely be able to fire only 15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.
But as semi-automatic weapon, Gonnuscio said, “It may not last forever, but they’ve got a gun to get the job done that they were assigned to do, and nobody knows the wiser.”

The ATF has made no reported moves to regulate or seize any more of the airsoft guns, which continue to be sold in stores around the country, and it appears to be bowing to critics and reconsidering its stance on the guns' convertibility.

“We’re having to take a serious look at this, so it’s just something that we’re reviewing, and I’m hoping we’ll have some information that we can make available to the public certainly very soon,” ATF spokesman Drew Wade told FoxNews.com.

But firearms expert Len Savage said the ATF is taking a “serious look” at the wrong issue -- or, more specifically, the wrong part of the gun.

The reason it’s possible to make these airsoft receivers function as real receivers is that all an AR-15 receiver does is hold the gun together, Savage said. So with enough gun knowledge, almost anything can be made into a receiver.

“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

The most important part of an AR-15, and the most difficult part to replicate, he said, is the upper half of the gun -- which is unmarked, unregulated and readily available for purchase.

“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breecher bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,” Savage said.

He said the reason the lower half of the AR-15 is the part with the serial number, and thus classified as the receiver, is that it was up to the manufacturer to choose the location of the gun’s serial number. Because the bottom of the gun has a flat surface, it was the easiest to mark.
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Other weapons which could take on improvised receivers include the M10 and M11 model pistols. Receivers for these weapons could be easily manufactured out of laminated wood... Time to ban them (and wood).

Last edited by Struwwelpeter; 10-07-2010 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Just because the upper receiver contains "all of the pressure" does not mean shock does not go through the lower. Its is actually the barrel and chamber that retains a lot of the pressure.
Also, this ATF idiot must have never heard of a private party sale. Why goto all that trouble to spend ~1100$ to build that bullshit when you can get a real one in a private party sale anyway.That makes their whole argument moot anyway.
This reminds me of something the UK would do.

And I think that figure is a a little high. you could do it for the cost of an ar15 kit probably. Unless he means some kind of 500$ tool along with the upper to get it done.

Last edited by ilovechronic; 10-07-2010 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post
Just because the upper receiver contains "all of the pressure" does not mean shock does not go through the lower. Its is actually the barrel and chamber that retains a lot of the pressure.
Also, this ATF idiot must have never heard of a private party sale. Why goto all that trouble to spend ~1100$ to build that bullshit when you can get a real one in a private party sale anyway.That makes their whole argument moot anyway.
This reminds me of something the UK would do.

And I think that figure is a a little high. you could do it for the cost of an ar15 kit probably. Unless he means some kind of 500$ tool along with the upper to get it done.
lol. i know. just posted that to see what your responses would be. as for whether or not it would work i really have no clue, i suppose you could get away with it but like 5.56 (and yourself) said it might not be worth the trouble with some guns.

you're right, that dude was definitely wrong when he said it would take 1,100 dollars.

as for why someone would want to build one... i guess it's just the adventure of it. the whole "i did something special" feeling that might come along with making a gun "underground" from toy parts. it's kind of like owning the rolls royce of improvised weapons i guess. you would be like the "king of the retards" if you know what i mean.
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2010, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim "fuck latinos" Carrey View Post
Possible and very easy...
Your quote says 1100 to have a working gun....... Why not just buy a real AR?
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

I don't know much about upper and lowers, but I seriously doubt one from an airsoft gun would work, and if it did, not for long. I've taken apart several of these, and they're usually made of extremely low quality metal and materials.

If a lower is such a sought after item, and supposedly an airsoft gun lower will function...why don't people cast them out of aluminum? It's not very hard to to make a furnace capable, and casting is fairly simple. It would need to be machined a bit after it is made, I'm sure, but I think it could work. Correct me if I'm wrong here though.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

All this talk about Airsoft AR15's being converted to "real" firearms is total bullshit. I've fondled with alot of them airsoft rifles and the build quality is shit, they're made out of some shitty alloy and if they even break down from firing 6mm plastic pellets they won't hold up for a 5.56.

Fucking retards saying otherwise.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

You know what's easier than converting an airsoft rifle into a real rifle? Making enough home made explosives and blow up a federal building. That is easier. ATF needs to go on a mission and not stop before all the bathtubs have been removed from every American home. Bathtubs are obviously extremely dangerous as they have the capacity to hold enough chemicals to create enough home made explosives to blow up federal buildings.

Say goodbye to your bathtubs.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by skygear View Post
quoted the wrong thing! the issue is this is a way to circumvent the law... for people that cant obtain one legally for whatever reason or for someone that wants to make one themselves

besides if you read my post, then you could have built one for more like less than 500...
50 receiver parts kit
100 used airsoft m4
200 upper
20-50 for a new buffer and spring
this is all hypothetical though unless you are competant enough to attempt without killing yourself or anyone else(besides zombies) in the process and there isn't any published info on the actual metal quality used
as quoted is around 400
You must have missed what I said. In most every state you can purchase firearms through private party sales without a backround check. Anyone, even criminals and people prohibited from owning,posessing, being in the confines of a firearm can buy an ar15 in a private party sale. Probably cheaper than 1100$
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Old 10-08-2010, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Being into airsoft more than most people here (since I canīt own real guns without major hazzle) I seem to know a bit more about this case than the quoted LEOs and others here.
The whole issue started over a confistated shipment of WE gas blow-back M4s/ARs at Tacoma port(link to news article)

The actual guns (WE M4 blow-back) are totally legal AIR-guns, though it has parts looking and operating very similar to real steel including a functional (gas) bolt. Here is an exploded drawing of the parts.

The claim by the feds is that it is possible to replace the upper. That is a rediculous statement; all the other parts are made from machined or cast aluminium. I donīt doubt that some nut could make one fire a real bullet, but that would be the one and only shot it ever fired before self-destructing and possibly killing the genious "user". Would be easier tol make a zip gun...
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Last edited by Ebola; 10-08-2010 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
Being into airsoft more than most people here (since I canīt own real guns without major hazzle) I seem to know a bit more about this case than the quoted LEOs and others here.
The whole issue started over a confistated shipment of WE gas blow-back M4s/ARs at Tacoma port(link to news article)

The actual guns (WE M4 blow-back) are totally legal AIR-guns, though it has parts looking and operating very similar to real steel including a functional (gas) bolt. Here is an exploded drawing of the parts.

The claim by the feds is that it is possible to replace the upper. That is a rediculous statement; all the other parts are made from machined or cast aluminium. I donīt doubt that some nut could make one fire a real bullet, but that would be the one and only shot it ever fired before self-destructing and possibly killing the genious "user". Would be easier tol make a zip gun...
sure you do. Like we have stated if you can get it to accept an ar15 trigger group and then a complete ar15 upper it would be doable.
Nobody here is talking about trying to chamber or shoot a 5.56 in the airsoft gun(non functional as a firearm) We are talking about converting it to a functioning firearm with just the lower receiver. Like I said obviously you are not going to be able to chamber a 5.56 in an 8mm airsoft barrel/chamber that
The problem is you do not understand what the LEOs/ "others here" are talking about. The gas system is all contained in the upper receiver.
If it is close to spec and the pins are the right size and in the right place it could theoretically be able to take a real ar15 upper receiver on top of the airsoft lower receiver.
The reason they were confiscated is because they did not import them with the orange tips, which the law requires that you import these airsoft guns with orange tips on them. Of course they are totally legal to import "air guns" as long as they import them with the orange tips.

Last edited by ilovechronic; 10-09-2010 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

as an "airsoft lower" I was asuming that you ment with airsoft internals too. The trigger group is made from aluminium...
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
as an "airsoft lower" I was asuming that you ment with airsoft internals too. The trigger group is made from aluminium...
If it's done correctly there is no problem with aluminum parts in guns
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by 944 View Post
If it's done correctly there is no problem with aluminum parts in guns
This.

If it can be done with plastic (ALL plastic) aluminum is certainly suitable.

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Old 10-08-2010, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

And the trigger group?
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
And the trigger group?
The isn't really any real stress on the trigger mechanisms, the only part I'd have any worry about is the sear
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
And the trigger group?
Yes, the Plumcrazy Firearms trigger group is all plastic.

I wouldn't rely on it for long term usage, but so far tests are showing the plastic trigger group is still going well past 500 rounds of .223.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
as an "airsoft lower" I was asuming that you ment with airsoft internals too. The trigger group is made from aluminium...
The real ar15 internals are steel not aluminum, do you mean these airsoft internals are aluminum?

Also, I have never seen that plumcrazy plastic lower with plastic internals, that is pretty damn crazy.

Bottom line is an ar15 from an airsoft lower receiver is more trouble than it is worth. And you would be able to obtain a real ar15 for the price they claim it would take via private party so them claiming conversion to a real firearm from an air soft gun is a pretty moot point because you can get ar15s pretty easily through private party sales. The only thing that would change things is if an m16 was doable with it which like they said it probably wouldn't hold up to automatic fire.

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Old 10-09-2010, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

The machining required to convert a real AR15 into an M16 is astronomically less than is required to modify an airsoft gun to function with a real upper.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56 SS109 View Post
The machining required to convert a real AR15 into an M16 is astronomically less than is required to modify an airsoft gun to function with a real upper.
Good point. See I was under the impression that they were talking about making an m16/machine gun in the article.
I really do wonder if it is possible to get it to function though with ar15 lower parts kit/complete upper.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

I think they said the trigger pack in the airsoft gun sits lower than the trigger pack in a real AR15. That's why they are not compatible without machining.

It's much easier to make machineguns from dummy guns over in the UK.

Their "deactivated firearms" and blank firing guns are nothing more than real guns with the firing pin hole welded over and the barrel plugged.

Granted it would take a decent amount of machining to make it capable of chambering and firing a round, but since all the parts are exactly the same as those used on real firearms they would have the necessary strength to do so.

Hell, a MAC-11 would be easy as hell to bring back to life.

About 3 years ago some guy got busted for doing just that.

Buying MAC-11 prop guns and unplugging the barrels with very little effort.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post
The real ar15 internals are steel not aluminum, do you mean these airsoft internals are aluminum?
Yes, the "high end" airsoft internals (like the siezed WE M4īs) are aluminium. Low grade ones use some alloy similar to what the chassis of an old Matchbox car was made from. But if plastic does the trick to 500 rds, I guess the aluminium is fine...
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
Yes, the "high end" airsoft internals (like the siezed WE M4īs) are aluminium. Low grade ones use some alloy similar to what the chassis of an old Matchbox car was made from. But if plastic does the trick to 500 rds, I guess the aluminium is fine...
The term you are looking for is die cast and pot metal.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

There are two reasons behind all of this:

1. Reason one isn't the receiver itself, but that the selector mechanism on gas blowback airsoft M4s can, with minor modification, be made to fit real AR-15s, and can actually make them selective fire. Or so I have been told by all of the major airsoft shops in the area, and a friend who once tried it. This is also why many of these shops are having trouble importing them.

2. Reason two is that the company called Systema, which makes ultra-high end airsoft M4 variants, produces their guns with a lower receiver that is apparently almost exactly the same as a real AR-15 lower. Same material and same dimensions, as opposed to regular airsoft guns which use pot metal, and the receivers of which are slightly wider than a real AR-15 lower so as to accommodate the gearbox.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naga1337 View Post
There are two reasons behind all of this:

1. Reason one isn't the receiver itself, but that the selector mechanism on gas blowback airsoft M4s can, with minor modification, be made to fit real AR-15s, and can actually make them selective fire. Or so I have been told by all of the major airsoft shops in the area, and a friend who once tried it. This is also why many of these shops are having trouble importing them.

2. Reason two is that the company called Systema, which makes ultra-high end airsoft M4 variants, produces their guns with a lower receiver that is apparently almost exactly the same as a real AR-15 lower. Same material and same dimensions, as opposed to regular airsoft guns which use pot metal, and the receivers of which are slightly wider than a real AR-15 lower so as to accommodate the gearbox.
As demonstrated in this thread and by the Ar15 industry they can produce a functioning lower from poor quality material or lower quality material the specifications required.
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovechronic View Post
As demonstrated in this thread and by the Ar15 industry they can produce a functioning lower from poor quality material or lower quality material the specifications required.
When I came to this thread I thought RS guns (in general and all structural parts as well as internals) required sturdy/durable/"quality" materials. With you guys "enlightning" me I am in no way in doubt that a Systema PTW Max M4 Lower Reciever:

made from die cast aluminum, can be fitted with very little actual crafting/modding, to replace a reel steel lower:


The only actual difference is the place the grip attaches. The airsoft (Systema) has a hole allowing the electric motor (fitted in the grip) to connect to the lower. I dont know how the grip attaches RS, but if there is no issue of material strength is shouldnt be a problem, but a Systema Lower is 199$
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Old 10-11-2010, 07:31 PM
ilovechronic ilovechronic is offline
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Default Re: Airsoft lower for ar 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
When I came to this thread I thought RS guns (in general and all structural parts as well as internals) required sturdy/durable/"quality" materials. With you guys "enlightning" me I am in no way in doubt that a Systema PTW Max M4 Lower Reciever:

made from die cast aluminum, can be fitted with very little actual crafting/modding, to replace a reel steel lower:


The only actual difference is the place the grip attaches. The airsoft (Systema) has a hole allowing the electric motor (fitted in the grip) to connect to the lower. I dont know how the grip attaches RS, but if there is no issue of material strength is shouldnt be a problem, but a Systema Lower is 199$
FYI real ar15 lowers are also usually aluminum. LOL its funny when airsoft products cost more than the real thing, you can get a stripped lower for like 100$-150$.
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